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So can we all just admit Dedede went from being a good tiered character to F?

Zethoro

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I don't see how anyone can rate him above bottom 5 in the game now. He has the laggiest moveset in the entire cast and has no reliable kill moves aside from utilt which doesn't kill early anymore. He's comboable, is a big target, has issues landing and his projectile often ends up backfiring on him because it gets reflected by virtually everything. I really like the character but he's the one of the few characters I have practically no idea how I'm supposed to play. He has no bread'n'butter options like his Brawl bair anymore. All his options suck once you start playing people who know not to approach you and just reflect all your gordos.
err...UAir KOs pretty early. Gordos can KO pretty early. sure he doesn't have many fast options, but he doesn't need them with he can basically throw out his godly FTilt and just make you get out of his face. The fact that this move, which was already amazing in Brawl, can be pivoted now is an amazing thing. He has good combo potential and can KO without too much trouble. He's also the only heavy with great recovery. Seriously, the only way you're KOing this guy is from a very well timed meteor smash, stage spike, or with a very powerful attack that sends him off the blast zone. You can't just knock him away far enough like Bowser, DK or Charizard and end the stock there, because he can come back to the stage from just about anywhere.
Sure, he's not the best character out there, that much is evident, but he's no slouch either.
Also, if you want to talk about B&B options...not ever character needs one, but if Dedede has one it's definetly his FTilt.
alsohardreadscangetaKOatlike50%
 
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Yong Dekonk

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err...UAir KOs pretty early. Gordos can KO pretty early. sure he doesn't have many fast options, but he doesn't need them with he can basically throw out his godly FTilt and just make you get out of his face. The fact that this move, which was already amazing in Brawl, can be pivoted now is an amazing thing. He has good combo potential and can KO without too much trouble. He's also the only heavy with great recovery. Seriously, the only way you're KOing this guy is from a very well timed meteor smash, stage spike, or with a very powerful attack that sends him off the blast zone. You can't just knock him away far enough like Bowser, DK or Charizard and end the stock there, because he can come back to the stage from just about anywhere.
Sure, he's not the best character out there, that much is evident, but he's no slouch either.
Also, if you want to talk about B&B options...not ever character needs one, but if Dedede has one it's definetly his FTilt.
alsohardreadscangetaKOatlike50%
There's multiple things wrong with this post. First of all, Dedede has a good ftilt but it has shorter range than brawl. Thats why it's considered nerfed. I don't know how skilled the opponents you've faced are but D3's gordo toss is just a bad idea against smart opponents. Update 1.0.4 nerfed the percentage requirement to reflect a gordo making Gordon's very risky to use in 1v1. D3 is very vulnerable in the air as his aerials have slow startup and major landing lag. Also I'm not sure you've ever used DK because his recovery is one of the best in the game for reaching the ledge. And it always makes me chuckle when someone says a character is good it just requires hard reads. Hard reads are just that, hard. Even more so against a good opponent... D3 is not bad but he's worse than brawl overall.
 

Jabejazz

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Also I'm not sure you've ever used DK because his recovery is one of the best in the game for reaching the ledge.
It's also one of the most linear/telegraphed recoveries in the game, and one of the most horrendous vertical recoveries in the game. He's fairly easy to edgeguard because he can't mix up his recovery in anyway whatsoever.
While I agree the tornado itself needs to be respected, the top of DK is completely vulnerable to any downward aerial used against him.

His recovery overall really isn't that good. It's an amazing move on stage, however.

That being said, unless you're Mac, most of the time you generally can make it back on stage. People die off the blast zone way more often than they fail to reach the ledge.
 
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Dre89

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err...UAir KOs pretty early. Gordos can KO pretty early. sure he doesn't have many fast options, but he doesn't need them with he can basically throw out his godly FTilt and just make you get out of his face. The fact that this move, which was already amazing in Brawl, can be pivoted now is an amazing thing. He has good combo potential and can KO without too much trouble. He's also the only heavy with great recovery. Seriously, the only way you're KOing this guy is from a very well timed meteor smash, stage spike, or with a very powerful attack that sends him off the blast zone. You can't just knock him away far enough like Bowser, DK or Charizard and end the stock there, because he can come back to the stage from just about anywhere.
Sure, he's not the best character out there, that much is evident, but he's no slouch either.
Also, if you want to talk about B&B options...not ever character needs one, but if Dedede has one it's definetly his FTilt.
alsohardreadscangetaKOatlike50%
Ftilt is only good when you're playing footsies in neutral. It's too laggy to use when they've penetrated your zoning or are pressuring your shield.

Gordos are bad most of the time now because people will just reflect them with their jab. Also heavy recoveries aren't bad because they can't make it back to the edge. They're bad because they're incredibly linear, which makes it easy to gimp them out of it.
 

Zethoro

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There's multiple things wrong with this post. First of all, Dedede has a good ftilt but it has shorter range than brawl. Thats why it's considered nerfed. I don't know how skilled the opponents you've faced are but D3's gordo toss is just a bad idea against smart opponents. Update 1.0.4 nerfed the percentage requirement to reflect a gordo making Gordon's very risky to use in 1v1. D3 is very vulnerable in the air as his aerials have slow startup and major landing lag. Also I'm not sure you've ever used DK because his recovery is one of the best in the game for reaching the ledge. And it always makes me chuckle when someone says a character is good it just requires hard reads. Hard reads are just that, hard. Even more so against a good opponent... D3 is not bad but he's worse than brawl overall.
I never said his Ftilt wasn't nerfed, it is, definetly, nor am I saying he's amazing. But he's far from being one of the worst characters.
As said before, D3 has very polarizing matchups.
Sure, his gordos can be jabbed, but have you tried edgeguarding with them? There's also the fact that you can hit your own gordo back when someone tries to hit it to you.
He's worse than brawl. I never denied that. I just said he's still not terrible.
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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I still don't see why everyone talks about Gordos like if it was the worst move ever and the reason Dedede is a bottom tier because of it. I feel like its more of a trap than a projectile. Sometimes I get a lot more from Gordos by using them next to the opponent anyways. Feels like complaining about Megaman's crash bomb or Duck Hunt's can.

And the only reason to use a Gordo from across the stage is that you are ready to bounce it back with Utilt or the attack of your preference.
 
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Rajikaru

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I still don't see why everyone talks about Gordos like if it was the worst move ever and the reason Dedede is a bottom tier because of it. I feel like its more of a trap than a projectile. Sometimes I get a lot more from Gordos by using them next to the opponent anyways. Feels like complaining about Megaman's crash bomb or Duck Hunt's can.

And the only reason to use a Gordo from across the stage is that you are ready to bounce it back with Utilt or the attack of your preference.
Yeah, people seem to be taking the special at face value because it's an item that can bounce and do damage. Tip for everybody that wants to actually play Dedede without being bad: use Side-b and up-tilt during the animation. Suddenly you'll realize how good the Gordos are at spacial control.
 

PCHU

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Yeah, people seem to be taking the special at face value because it's an item that can bounce and do damage. Tip for everybody that wants to actually play Dedede without being bad: use Side-b and up-tilt during the animation. Suddenly you'll realize how good the Gordos are at spacial control.
The thing about Dedede is that he's not bad, but he's not really good, either.
I'd say he's definitely the Tager of this game, with some gimmicks that aren't actually that great but can be used in a great way.
An example of this is his his dtilt, with its (apparent) slight disjoint -- even good players will challenge your crouch because they never expect your dtilt to outprioritize them.
His aerial game is really weird and one of the previous guys was right about that nasty deadzone; Jiggs is a really tough matchup because of this, but as long as you remember that you don't have to sit there and take hits, it becomes a lot easier to clip her with your hammer.
I think this is a huge part of playing Dedede well, and it sounds obvious, but it isn't; you have to find a way to be near the opponent, but not necessarily be -there-.
I usually float around my opponents a fair bit before actually doing something, and it's all a matter of positioning and playing opportunistically, which I hate, but it's so necessary as Dedede.
Play in such a way that you prompt them to challenge your moves in trades they will always lose; always have a way out in case any approach/read you make doesn't go as planned.
I sometimes purposely set up a gordo behind me to catch my opponent in case they decide to roll and punish me.
Take advantage of Gordo's intimidation factor -- any time it's on the field, it's a gamble; either it hits them or it gets reflected.
If you expect it to be reflected, be prepared to knock it back or set it up to be out of your opponent's range by the time you've made your approach.
If you expect it to hit, try to find the angle of launch and follow up accordingly; you might've just set up for an early gimp.

Like I said, he's not bad, but he's not good, either.
If you've got a firm grasp on your opponent's style and you understand Dedede's optimal area of influence, he can be one heck of a monster.
People will eventually figure out that he's really not that hard to get past, even played well (all you have to do is camp him), but he's an excellent character for sharpening your attention to detail and your skill in making reads; if this is what you need work on (and you like getting punished dearly for having a huge hitbox), Dedede's the character for you.
 

Rajikaru

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The thing about Dedede is that he's not bad, but he's not really good, either.
I'd say he's definitely the Tager of this game, with some gimmicks that aren't actually that great but can be used in a great way.
An example of this is his his dtilt, with its (apparent) slight disjoint -- even good players will challenge your crouch because they never expect your dtilt to outprioritize them.
His aerial game is really weird and one of the previous guys was right about that nasty deadzone; Jiggs is a really tough matchup because of this, but as long as you remember that you don't have to sit there and take hits, it becomes a lot easier to clip her with your hammer.
I think this is a huge part of playing Dedede well, and it sounds obvious, but it isn't; you have to find a way to be near the opponent, but not necessarily be -there-.
I usually float around my opponents a fair bit before actually doing something, and it's all a matter of positioning and playing opportunistically, which I hate, but it's so necessary as Dedede.
Play in such a way that you prompt them to challenge your moves in trades they will always lose; always have a way out in case any approach/read you make doesn't go as planned.
I sometimes purposely set up a gordo behind me to catch my opponent in case they decide to roll and punish me.
Take advantage of Gordo's intimidation factor -- any time it's on the field, it's a gamble; either it hits them or it gets reflected.
If you expect it to be reflected, be prepared to knock it back or set it up to be out of your opponent's range by the time you've made your approach.
If you expect it to hit, try to find the angle of launch and follow up accordingly; you might've just set up for an early gimp.

Like I said, he's not bad, but he's not good, either.
If you've got a firm grasp on your opponent's style and you understand Dedede's optimal area of influence, he can be one heck of a monster.
People will eventually figure out that he's really not that hard to get past, even played well (all you have to do is camp him), but he's an excellent character for sharpening your attention to detail and your skill in making reads; if this is what you need work on (and you like getting punished dearly for having a huge hitbox), Dedede's the character for you.
I'd say Dedede is definitely one of the best characters to learn about how to play properly with. Since he's so big, if you roll too much you WILL get punished, as I learned today. Started off Fg matches facing a Toon Link that was obviously a newer player and only used smashes and his bow and upB, and I rolled so much that he was still able to punish me. Throughout the day I started rolling less and less, focusing more on dodges and shielding, and I did significantly better, beating at least 12 different people without breaking a sweat as Dedede, even a good Jigglypuff (got a last KO on them with my dair meteor, which felt great).
 

Powda

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I'll admit it it, after 2000 glory games as ddd, he is F tier. Easily the funnest character to play though.
 

shrooby

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I'll admit it it, after 2000 glory games as ddd, he is F tier. Easily the funnest character to play though.
Well, at least I can't argue with one of those statements. :p
 

toadster101

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I'll admit it it, after 2000 glory games as ddd, he is F tier. Easily the funnest character to play though.
C at the highest, D at the lowest. Let's not go overboard. And besides, the "funnest" character is always SS in my book!
 

AlextheTwin

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I'm really liking DDD. I think his current average status on the tier list is correct. But I think too many people are writing him off because they want to try and use the gordos like every other projectile in the game...which they are not. You shouldn't use them in ways they can easily be reflected, like across stage or side gordo when not in the air. Got to be tricky with them - use all the 3 different bounces. Keep your opponents guessing. And they're going to get bounced back in your face every once in a while even if you're using them right...got to be willing to accept that.

Took me a while to learn how to use them right, their main use for me is ledge guarding and shooting down from the air where they can't be reflected back on DDD. Just feels natural now...when i switch to a character like villager with a "real" projectile it feels weird because I've played DDD so much.
 
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Slaudial

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I'll admit it it, after 2000 glory games as ddd, he is F tier. Easily the funnest character to play though.
Well damn that's funny because playing Dedede online I win like 95% percent of my games

guess Dedede = S tier then?
 
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ぱみゅ

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I also win most of my DDD matches. I just don't feel like using him most times.

And yes, I use Gordos mainly when I'm sent upwards and cover my landings with them.
 

Gidy

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I swear im gonna start using characters at tournaments that aren't very much used. D3 is good, Zelda is good, and Marth is good.
 

Girthquake

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D3 is probably one of the better underused characters, but he's not Diddy Shiek tier. Though OP saying this trash about the Gordo is honestly hilarious. Dat ignorance
 
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