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Snake vs. Lucario

Limeee

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,797
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
omg i hate this match up

what i like to do, is wait in front of him, and attack, but leave myself enough time to turn around and grab if he ever decides to roll
 

Blacknight99923

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
2,315
Location
UCLA
I find that in this match up in particular you need to NOT lose momentum when lucario is at higher percents because it can easily lead to a stock loss for you. Also watch his rolls too. You can't afford whiffs when lucario is at higher percents as it can easily lead off stage and a stock. At lower percets (like at 0) cipher recovery is probably a bit easier considering his lower damage out put probably can't knock you off but don't rely on it.

Lucario is floaty so Up tilt works well however he is a medium weight character

his camping> at higher percents

I am NOT that experienced in this match up so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I do believe these things are accurate from my small experience.
 

Steam

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
6,322
Location
Hell, Colorado
This matchup is really annoying for lucario. I hatehatehate it. ftilt> our groundgame basically. Fsmash is decent but that's all you'll have to look out for really. You can punish misused rolls really hard just as you punish everything really hard. neither really outcamp each other and who's better in camping really is stage dependent. Basically you **** lucario until he can get snake in the air (which he can do pretty well) and then he can do nasty things to you. obviously keep your Utilt fresh and know when it kills. It's extremely important you kill us at as low of a % as possible. If you can get the first KO in this matchup Lucario is pretty screwed because it will now take him til the end of time (or near the end of his next stock) to KO you. but if he gets the first kill he can put a lot of hurt on you if he gets momentum. errr... You should defintely ban Japes against lucario, it's definitely our best stage againt snake.
 

llamapaste

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
430
Powershield those aura balls. It's so easy to do. To punish his foward roll out of d-throw you need a boost grab. Mortarslide to hug is pretty good for edge-guarding. It covers a lot of Lucario's options. On stages like fd Lucario can aim his recovery, latch on to the wall and get back on stage. Watch out for that.
 

Linkshot

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
5,236
Location
Hermit in the Highrise
I have a lot of experience with the Snake matchup, and I have to say it's 50:50.
You can kill us early, but we can combo the hell out of you, and then kill you early once we force you into using nades for defense, which will not kill us soon enough.
 

MythTrainerInfinity

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
NNID
MTInfinity
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
Aura Spheres 12% and greater blow up your nades.

I always tell people to aim their Aura bawls at your head or feet (not that they listen to me anyway). "When in doubt aim for the head."

We need to remember to SDI behind you on your first FTilt to UTilt you.

We have a frame advantage for rolling behind your FTilt 2 and UTilt, but its not like its going to happen much.

If we're close enough and if we mastered shield DI we can grab you out of your first FTilt.

This matchup is so stupid from both sides lol.

55:45 Snake.
 

Steam

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
6,322
Location
Hell, Colorado
Personally I'd place it at 60-40 snake, but I'm really bad at this matchup so 55-45 is probably accurate. It's certainly closer to 6-4 than it is to 5-5 though.
 

Goombadude3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
19
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2809-8329-5911
Ive seen alot of these matches before,snake mostly wins. I cant say much cause ive barley played any of these chracters but i notice a few of the lucarios i know spam aura spheres,which i find pretty avoidable, 60:40 Snakes favor
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
1,632
I don't really wanna write up a guide for this matchup, it's also a pretty boring one. Don't let Lucario live long at high %'s, he can kill you very quickly and easily if you do, which is why Lucario can make ridiculous comebacks.

Don't fall for Fsmash spam, know when it's safe to punish it , learn its cool down time too. Powershield it for a very easy punish. Watch out for Aura Spheres when landing, Lucarios love to hit you with the big ones from across the stage while you recover and land. When Lucario is recovering, put a Dsmash near the edge and hold onto the ledge, it's almost guaranteed gimp or damage. Watch out for wall clinging though, or double jump to aerial attempt on you if the Lucario still has one.

When you're under Lucario while he's in the air, 9/10 times they'll do a Dair. You can punish it quite easily with a Bair in between. If you're waiting for Lucario to land, be careful of Dair to Nair combo. Punish the Nair instead of Dair. Watch out for Lucario's "chain grab" on Snake at really low percents. Don't fall for utilt spam from Lucario at low percents, just DI and jump out of it.

One trick I know a couple Lucarios do is to come down on Snake after a jump and do a predictable Dair, but then jump and Dair again to throw you off. Don't fall for that either. Lucario's roll is ridiculous fast, you'll have a hard time punishing them on reaction. Try to bait them or predict them, because most Lucarios spam roll.

I think I'll have to go with 55:45 Snake too.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
I dunno, I play this matchup more than any other one and I dont really know what to say about it. If he tries doing stuff like fair-nair or dumb **** to you on the ground you can utilt after fair on shield and I think first hit of ftilt....not sure on that one

dont force the kill on lucario....its really risky. When he's got high aura just camp your heart out and be really really careful for the aura spheres

i wanna say completely even, but 55/45 snake
 

RATED

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,627
Location
The Grand Line... PR
I don't really wanna write up a guide for this matchup, it's also a pretty boring one. Don't let Lucario live long at high %'s, he can kill you very quickly and easily if you do, which is why Lucario can make ridiculous comebacks.

Don't fall for Fsmash spam, know when it's safe to punish it , learn its cool down time too. Powershield it for a very easy punish. Watch out for Aura Spheres when landing, Lucarios love to hit you with the big ones from across the stage while you recover and land. When Lucario is recovering, put a Dsmash near the edge and hold onto the ledge, it's almost guaranteed gimp or damage. Watch out for wall clinging though, or double jump to aerial attempt on you if the Lucario still has one.

When you're under Lucario while he's in the air, 9/10 times they'll do a Dair. You can punish it quite easily with a Bair in between. If you're waiting for Lucario to land, be careful of Dair to Nair combo. Punish the Nair instead of Dair. Watch out for Lucario's "chain grab" on Snake at really low percents. Don't fall for utilt spam from Lucario at low percents, just DI and jump out of it.

One trick I know a couple Lucarios do is to come down on Snake after a jump and do a predictable Dair, but then jump and Dair again to throw you off. Don't fall for that either. Lucario's roll is ridiculous fast, you'll have a hard time punishing them on reaction. Try to bait them or predict them, because most Lucarios spam roll.

I think I'll have to go with 55:45 Snake too.
you are the reason I don't write in the Matchup threads, you always write the same that I have in mind. you are too good I guess at being Ninja.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

don't try to punish a Fsmash perfect spaced if you don't powershield it since you can't and you will have frame disadvantage. I play this MU a lot.
 

Sync.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,369
Location
Houston, TX (Fire Nation)
I agree with Nappy. From my experience versus Lucario, I know it is borderline suicidal to go in for the kill when Lucario is at high percentages. It's not only incredibly predictable, but it's very risky for you since Lucario murders at high percentages. Your kill moves will get you punished because they're fairly easy to see coming. Be patient and outsmart the Lucario. It's much safer to camp Lucario and to kill him with a C$ or grenades or just punishing poorly spaced attacks and what not.

Edit: This match is very momentum based. Don't give the Lucario momentum you will pay in your precious stocks :[
Overall I think it's 55:45 Snake.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,202
Location
Baton Rouge
If Lucario is living beyond 115% you're doing something wrong. You should be killing Lucario before he has a chance to become terrifyingly powerful. Abstain from hitting him if you aren't going to kill him, seriously. Also, most Lucarios have a horrible habit of using Dair excessively to stall their momentum. It's a stupid use of the move, since Lucario is character that is at his strongest ascending from the ground, rather than falling. By remaining in the air for any longer than he has to, Lucario is allowing Snake time to kill him, or set up traps on the stage.

Another thing, Dair is two-hits. You should learn to SDI this move. You can pop out of it, and get either a uair or a bair pretty much every time, or if you're on the ground, you can SDI to grab Lucario. This yields easy kills, since they'll Dair regardless of what percent they are at.

At early percents, don't expend your jump if Lucario is juggling you. Just SDI up and away, or if you have the full length of the stage at your disposal, down and away to attempt to get a grab. Don't freak out though, because even if Lucario brings you across the entire stage, you'll only be at 50%. It'll FEEL like a lot of damage was done, but really nothing that a down-throw tech chase can't fix.

Against Lucario, you don't want to spot dodge. The good ones are going to be using their Jab game to refresh their aerials. Really, move decay isn't an issue for Lucario except when he wants to combo you at early percents due to his aura. Spot dodging is typically bad, since most of his moves linger. Also, Lucario can't really -kill- you from a grab unless he's at ludicrously high percents, and you're at 160% or higher. Your safest defense against Lucario is your shield.

When Lucario is attacking you, pretty much all of his aerials are going to auto-cancel nicely, and so he can do some fairly nice shield pressure akin to what Marth can do, except which a much, much better roll to set up even more mind games, but with the lose of a viable B move for pressure. But on that regard, this match up is very similar to the Marth match up, except Lucario takes time to reach an optimal damage/threat range.

Snake lacks the options to gimp Lucario, since Fair is going to beat pretty much everything Snake, and Lucario is floaty enough to where even a basic level Lucario is going to be able to SDI a Nair. Always avoid landing 'near' Lucario if you can. A well-timed F-smash from him will destroy you as you begin your landing due to its linger properties.

Snake kills quickly enough though for this match up to in his favor. 55:45. I used to play this match up a ton against Lee Martin, and we always agreed that it was in Snake's favor.
 

Wilmenz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Dominican Republic
I think it would be WAY better to camp him and Dthrow tech chase the entire game just to keep your whole moveset fresh for the KO.

Pivot grab ***** Lucario :)
 

Phillyfanboy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
95
Location
Kansas
Don't really care about who has the advantage. I want strategies on making it an easier match for Snake. Like Snake vs Diddy thread.
 

Wilmenz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Dominican Republic
Thats what we are discussing here but the ratio is needed too. Just give it a few days because this MU is somewhat not common.
 

AfroQT

Smash Master
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
3,970
Location
Cave of Olmec
Wow @ these 55:45 ratios. Snake DESTROYS lucario rofl. Lrn2powershield.
Not only can Lucario barely get to snake to hit him, but when he does, he hits him like...once..for no damage. And you can uptilt his dair outta shield no biggie. He has no way to close distance like...at all. No kill set ups, and like everything he does is unsafe EXCEPT A SPACED FSMASH WOOHOO.

This is like..7 - 3... ATLEAST IMO
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
yeah I'd have to say 6:4 and I could even see 65:35 being reasonable, lucario is horrible against snake

edit: fsmash isn't really safe either, one of the easiest physical attacks to powershield out there
 

CO18

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
5,920
Location
In Your Mom
Yeah i personally think snake is n00b but this is one MU he definitely *****. It's silly.
 

Wilmenz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Dominican Republic
You can pretty much Pivot grab anything Lucario tries to do. His Fsmash has great disjoint but some start up and we can Ftilt on reaction which has more range,damage and manliness.

We can also camp him and Lucario has like no safe options to get in. 30:70 Snake

I felt like that from the beginning of the thread but i needed some back up lol
 

AfroQT

Smash Master
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
3,970
Location
Cave of Olmec
You can pretty much Pivot grab anything Lucario tries to do. His Fsmash has great disjoint but some start up and we can Ftilt on reaction which has more range,damage and manliness.

We can also camp him and Lucario has like no safe options to get in. 30:70 Snake

I felt like that from the beginning of the thread but i needed some back up lol
Rofl i love this kid
oh and
Ftilt on reaction which has more range,damage and manliness.
Best part of the post.

Please marry me bro.
 

Limeee

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,797
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
also if we take the first stock, its pretty much a win, because they will have trouble killing till they get their aura back

:009:
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
lol I hate this matchup sometimes and other times its fun. I play a good Lucario regularly so...

- Learn to Powershield in this matchup, its invaluable.

- At high percents F-Smash is less punishable than you think it is. Be very careful punishing this even if you've powershielded it. The ending lag is pretty low.

- Don't challenge Lucario's Down Air: You will lose. In fact just get away from it, it goes through shields like no tomorrow.

- If you find yourself getting jab comboed at high percents avoid spotdodging as Force Palm stays out long enough to smack you regardless.

- Keep that Up-Tilt fresh till around 120% ish. You'll want to kill Lucario as early as possible. Anything over 150% and he's extremely dangerous.

- Lucario has a legit Glide Toss.

- Tech chasing also helps here.

- Don't let Lucario get above you in the air either.

- F-Tilt is handy in this matchup as always.

- Consider using D-Tilt. It has good range and can punish Lucario's mistakes. Most will never see it coming.

 

Takeover1806

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
2,013
Location
md/va
Junebug is a beast at this match-up.
I can't wait to play him in tourney again to get my revenge
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
can you SDI lucarios dair on reaction? Or can it only be SDI'd if you buffer, and at that is it even possible to SDI it?
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,202
Location
Baton Rouge
I know you can SDI it, but I don't know if I'm doing it on reaction or just on instinct. When Lucario's dair, it's super obvious.
 

Toneh

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
1,353
Location
Orlando, Florida (UCF)
nah lucario is hard to fight
online

Some online tips: predict him rolling behind you about 3 seconds in advance
-powershield the ball at uptilt length
-nades are more annoying online so spam them


Take no prisoners
 
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