Data Snake Move Info Dump

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Okay, I'm bored out of my mind at the moment and decided why the hell not. With Demo 2.5 out at the moment and AlphaZealot giving the green light for P:M to finally get its own forum it seems the best time to whip this out. Besides, I have not seen anyone else do this over at smashmods.com either for Snake as of yet.

I'm using SmashAttack v1.3 and Toomai's BrawlBox 0.64d Beta-Gamma version to come up with this information. Full Set for Homebrew download set (although all the versions I expected was the same).

AttackLwShank

Hitbox: 6-8
Duration: 24
Hitboxes from left to right:
1) Bone=45 Damage=5 ShieldDamage=3 Direction=95 BKB=3 WKB=0 KBG=60 Size=3.5 TripRate=0% HitLagMultipler=x0.5 SDIMultipler=x0.25
2) Bone=48 Damage=5 ShieldDamage=3 Direction=95 BKB=3 WKB=0 KBG=60 Size=3 TripRate=0% HitLagMultipler=x0.5 SDIMultipler=x0.25
3) Bone=48 Damage=5 ShieldDamage=3 Direction=95 BKB=3 WKB=0 KBG=60 Size=2.75 X.Offset=71578.29 TripRate=0% HitLagMultipler=x0.5 SDIMultipler=x0.25

AttackHi3 (Utilt)

Spoiler

Frame5

Frame6

Frame8

Hitbox: 5-7, 8-9
Duration: 34
F5/6/7 Hitboxes (left to right)/(bottom to top):
1) Bone=14 Damage=12 ShieldDamage=10 Direction=86 BKB=10 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=2.95 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1
2) Bone=44 Damage=12 ShieldDamage=10 Direction=90 BKB=10 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=3.15 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1
3) Bone=48 Damage=12 ShieldDamage=10 Direction=87 BKB=10 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=3.15 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1

F8/9 Hitboxes (bottom to top):
1) Bone=45 Damage=10 ShieldDamage=7 Direction=85 BKB=7 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=3.5 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1
1) Bone=48 Damage=10 ShieldDamage=7 Direction=87 BKB=7 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=3.85 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1
3) Bone=48 Damage=10 ShieldDamage=7 Direction=87 BKB=7 WKB=0 KBG=103 Size=4.28 HitlagMultiplier=x1 SDIMultipler=x1

AttackAirN (Nair)
Hitbox: 5-9, 18-21, 28-30
Duration: 49
Landing Lag: 16
L-canceled Lag: 8

AttackAirF (Fair)
Hitbox: 23-26
Duration: 46
Landing Lag: 30
L-canceled Lag: 15

AttackAirB (Bair)
Hitbox: 7-10, 11-24
Duration: 43
Landing Lag: 11
L-canceled Lag: 22

AttackAirU (Uair)
Hitbox: 10-12, 13-23
Duration: 42
Landing Lag: 10
L-canceled Lag: 21

AttackAirD (Dair)
Hitbox: 3-6, 14-17, 25-28, 35-36
Duration: 60
Landing Lag: 12
L-canceled Lag: 24

Catch (Grab)
Hitbox: 7-8
Animation Duration: 31

CatchDash (DashGrab)
Hitbox: 11-12
Animation Duration: 40

CatchTurn PivotGrab
Hitbox: 8-9
Animation Duration: 31

EscapeN (SpotDodge)
Intangible: 2-18
Duration: 27

EscapeB (Back Roll)
Intangible: 4-17
Animation Duration: 34

EscapeF (Forward Roll)
Intangible: 4-17
Animation Duration: 36

EscapeAir (Airdodge)
Intangible: 4-29
Animation Duration: 50

Miscellaneous
Jump squat: 7

And I'll be working on the rest in due time, but I feel like moving onto simple stuff since this image and hitbox reading takes forever.
Credit: StandardToaster

 

[standardtoaster]

You cannot use the PSA values for finding out landing lags. They are dealt with differently in game. You will need to ask a PMBR member to get them for you. Here are Snake's.

Nair: 8/16
Fair: 15/30
Bair: 11/22
Uair: 10/21
Dair: 12/24

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

That makes more sense. The durations seemed rather long when looking at them compared to what I remember feeling from 2.1 version.

Maybe you could better explain Snake's Utilt. I see no synchronous timers or terminate collisions for his hitboxes with 12% damage. I was wondering how to read that since without them it seems like there would be 7 hitboxes floating with his Utilt by frame 8.

 

[standardtoaster]

Hitboxes with same ids will overwrite the previous one.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Huh. Its interesting then that the hitbox at the BodyN (bone14) changes size and angle by a single degree for a single frame lol

 

[bubbaking]

What's the frame data on Snake's Cypher?

 

[JTsm]

Needz moar info pls. ;~;

Specifically hitbox gifs. Would be nice if a PMBR member has the appropriate info.

Thanks in advance if someone can get those.

 

[FlashingFire]

All this data is cool, but I'd rather have the frame data and hitbox gifs/pictures for all of his moves than every little intricacy of just a few.

 

[Nguz95]

There's another guy who made an older version of this thread. It's accurate, but it's a little outdated. You should check it out, as it has all the gifs and info you need.

 

[FlashingFire]

Great!

...where is it?

 

[Nguz95]

My bad. Here it is: http://smashboards.com/threads/snake-hitboxes-and-frame-data.339444/

 

[FlashingFire]

Good stuff. Here's some interesting data, assuming it hasn't been changed since 2.6b:

First active frame:
Jab 1 - 3
Dair - 3
Ftilt 1 - 4
Grounded Cypher - 5
Utilt - 5
Nair - 6 (EDIT: This thread says it's active on frame 5.)
Dash Attack - 6
Crawl Tilt - 6
Grab - 7
C4 Stick - 10

Jumpsquat - 7 frames

 

[Nguz95]

I'll check out some of those numbers, as jab on frame one does not sound correct. There might be some frame speed modifiers to take into account.

 

[FlashingFire]

Jab 1 = the first of 3 hits in the jab combo, not a 1-frame jab.

 

[Nguz95]

Whoops. I should have read that closer...

 

[Zecron]

how do you reload your tranq gun anytime?

 

[Nguz95]

I think you hold down a shoulder button immediately after starting the tranq.

 

[Zecron]

I think you hold down a shoulder button immediately after starting the tranq.

shoulder?

 

[FlashingFire]

L or R. By default those are the shield buttons, but any button mapped to shield will work.

 

[cisyphus]

It's not really worth making a new thread probably, but the following characters cannot be grabbed with standing grab while asleep from Tranquilizer:
Fox
Kirby
Luigi
Mario
Squirtle
Wolf
based 3.6b fixed this!

And on a related note, standing grabs that Snake can crouch under:
Luigi
Peach
Captain Falcon
Zelda
Sheik
Link
Ganondorf
Mewtwo*
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Marth*
Snake

*The outer hitbox misses, but the inner hitbox hits. This information is wonderful to have, considering it's easy to punish a shield grab or JC grab with C4/grab/shank/d-tilt with this.

 

[CrimsonSun]

How do you do the grenade trick @ 0:08 seconds in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idfoutuv1lI&feature=youtu.be

How does he Z catch the grenade so he can AGT it after? I can't seem to get it.

 

[BND]

If Snake tosses his grenade up with the standard B -> let go of B -> up input in the air, on (I believe) the frame the grenade's impact hitbox comes out, Snake can cancel the lag with a jump. I believe this doesn't apply to his standard grenade roll or standard grenade forward throw.

Not in a position to test right now, but if this isn't doable in Brawl (and possible even if it is doable in Brawl) I honestly don't see why it got included in PM. Simple is better, and having only the up throw version cancellable doesn't make much sense, inductively and aesthetically. With the lower timer on the grenade it also puts Snake in a really bad position (unless Snake's trying to recover) since he would probably need to get rid of the grenade while airborne, which gives the opponent a mostly free (or at least a trade) hit on him.

(Will update this post on whether or not it's doable in Brawl once I can do some testing)

EDIT: Wait, never mind, Snake's grenade was never up-throwable in Brawl. Confirmed for gimmick that was never supposed to exist [?]

 

[CrimsonSun]

Still seems useful to me. I see prof use it every so often and it seems like a good thing to add to snake players kit. Being able to pull out a grenade in the air and tossing it downwards is so good. I have to get consistent at this.

 

[BND]

Still seems useful to me. I see prof use it every so often and it seems like a good thing to add to snake players kit. Being able to pull out a grenade in the air and tossing it downwards is so good. I have to get consistent at this.

It might have a niche use in mixups, but looking at it objectively it's a really bad option unless you're jumping up towards a platform that you could land on. It puts you in the air, wastes your doublejump, and prevents you from using any A moves until you throw the grenade. This basically means that if an opponent chooses to chase you up while you're doing your up throw grenade shenanigans, you're defenseless unless you throw the grenade beforehand or airdodge. In the case of an airdodge, unless your opponent's slow, you're going to get away with a trade at best. Throwing a grenade, on the other hand, is easily telegraphed and lasts for over 20 frames in total. So, your only attack move is Cypher, which primarily hits opponents above Snake and not those chasing Snake from below. This basically means that, unless you're getting into position to throw from a respectable distance, it's likely that nothing good will come out of up throw grenade shenanigans unless your opponent doesn't know the matchup.

EDIT: I forgot that dropping the grenade with Z only takes 1 frame, so that no-aerial bit's a moot point. Still, unless you're quick, you're likely going to eat the 12 damage from the grenade in that case.

 

[CrimsonSun]

I see your point, but I have seen prof get use out of it throwing it into his game. This wasn't the only vod he used this 'mixup'. I could definitely use this grenade shenanigan/tech once in a while. I've used snake's box taunt to help get an edgeguard on a roy once. Probably not the best option and maybe the roy had additional options, but the point is it worked. Sometimes the bad options work if your opponent is more concerned with your good options. Doesn't hurt to try the niche stuff once in a while. If I was a new snake player this wouldn't be high on the list of things to learn, but I feel like I could get some use out of this grenade tech.

 

[cisyphus]

A lot of people prof plays don't know the MU. Not to detract from Prof's merit, just to aid in expressing what BND is trying to convey.

 

[CrimsonSun]

I understand in an ideal scenario it wouldn't be a good option. I wish I had the luxury of playing people who 100% understood the snake matchup (options etc.) so I wouldn't considering using bad options then. Sorry for even bringing it up. I just wanted to know how to do the technique. Wish someone would post a video on showing the inputs for it.

 

[BND]

I understand in an ideal scenario it wouldn't be a good option. I wish I had the luxury of playing people who 100% understood the snake matchup (options etc.) so I wouldn't considering using bad options then. Sorry for even bringing it up. I just wanted to know how to do the technique. Wish someone would post a video on showing the inputs for it.

No need to be sorry for bringing it up; nothing wrong with trying to learn. On the other hand, copying higher leveled players without knowing what their goals are or actually questioning their methods is a bad idea, and you should get into the habit of asking yourself what people are trying to do when they end up doing something.

As for the inputs, you can try it out in debug mode: Fullhop, and pull out a grenade. Throw the grenade up, and once you see the hitbox come out, press jump and advance a frame. You should be able to cancel it. Then press Z; you should be able to pick it up. From there you can do whatever you want.

 

[cisyphus]

Looked into it a bit more and while I don't approve of the way Prof uses it per say, I think it's still super useful as a tool to cover portions of the stage that other options of grenade throwing wouldn't cover. i.e. locations as high as Snake's double jump. It's a good way of covering descents while juggling someone and I'll definitely start making use of this!