Snake in Teams

[SSS]

Hi. Recently I've been playing around with my friend SPENZU in teams. I've been playing as Snake and he's been playing as Wario. They seem to mix well together.

Honestly, Snake seems to be good in teams in general. First I'll talk about what he's good at in teams in general, then I'll move on to his melding with Wario.

-Snake's Fthrow and Bthrow are amazing because they have that set knockback, allowing your teammate to consistently get the regrab (or other follow-up) without having to worry about percent.
-His dthrow is great because of the techchase with your partner. You can dthrow with your partner behind you, and walk forward and tranq. A lot of the time the opponent will be scared of the followup from your partner and roll away from your partner, right into your tranq. If he rolls into your partner he will get punished. If he does nothing, your partner can still punish. If he does getup attack, your partner can punish, and it won't hit you since you walked forward.
-His fair is great also for techchasing, especially if your partner leads into it with an uthrow or something (i'll talk more about this later with the Wario-specific stuff.
-Partner grabs opponent, you get free C4. Gimmicks 4dayz. At higher percents this can lead to an easy kill. Partner grab > Snake sticky > Partner uthrow > Snake C4. You can throw in an uair too to get the extra height before the C4. At lower percents it's just good to have the C4 on them. Just make sure your partner knows which character has it on them and have them go for upward launchers for you to get the kill.
-Mines can help pressure the opponents into certain regions of the stage. Basic Snake stuff, but it makes them feel even more cramped with two of you there. Just make sure your partner is used to thinking about mines as they can hurt them, too.
-Kamikaze sticky: put C4 on partner. Partner rushes in and shields. Snake detonates C4. Rekt.

Overall Snake is great, since he has the wonderful stage control and the C4 placements. The partner has to be very onboard, however. It can't be a spur of the moment partnership, but rather a planned and controlled team. MAKE SURE your partner is aware of mines, how to interact with C4, and make sure you guys have a plan for techchases (you go left, I go right, etc.). Snake generally has the gimmicks and the kills and seems to be the main damager, with the other person supporting them in techchases, launches for the kill, and grabs for the sticky.

Now for Wario stuff that my friend and I do.

-Wdthrow and Sb/fthrow: Wario's dthrow has pretty set knockback. Snakes f/bthrow have pretty set knockback. You do the math. We space ourselves in a 2v1 for the infinite, and in the middle of a battle a grab can lead to a simple handoff with a quick "to you" to indicate to the other player that we're handing them off. We have a lot of verbal cues like this.
-Wgrab to SC4: This one is obvious. Wario grabs, Snake stickies.
-Sgrab to WsideB: You don't always have time for this one, but it's good.
-Wuthrow to Sdair or Sfair: Snake's dair after Wario's uthrow can lead to a quick regrab from Wario if only Snake's dair hits. Fair after Wario's uthrow and lead to a techchase. I always go the way I was facing, while SPENZU always goes the opposite way.
-Wuthrow to Sfair, Sf/bthrow to Wdair: If we're by the ledge, both of us can throw to the other for the spike. I b/fthrow right as he double jumps and it sends them right into the dair, and he uthrows just as I jump for the fair.
-Wuthrow to Sxair: The uthrow stuff is getting redundant. Basically I can do whatever aerial I want. Uair is good for killing with sticky; bair is good for edgeguards.
-Sf/bthrow to Wutilt: Leads to the C4 kill early on.
-Wdthrow to Sutilt: Leads to the C4 kill early on.

There's quite a bit more. We do combinations of these. We are working on hype 2v1 stuff, too. There's the boring Wdthrow > Sfthrow infinite, which can lead to a spike or a C4 or just a kill. Sorry if the post is ugly and hard to read. Maybe I'll make a complete list of Wario/Snake stuff as it goes on. It's still a new team. We're working on it. Against Fox and other fastfallers we're working on Wario keeping him busy with juggles and such while Snake places a loaded mine, then Snake takes over and uthrows a bit to sticky, then b/fthrows into the mine for the C4 kill. Mmmm. We also got this HYPE flowchart for Yoshi (and other characters of similar weights; Yoshi was just a random character arbitrarily selected; we have to look into every character and see what we can do) that kills him 0 to death--sort of. We can do the chaingrab but it's not as fun. This is just an example of what the team can do:

1. If Wario grabs, dthrow to Snake, then Snake does 2 uthrows. If Snake grabs, he does 3 uthrows.
2. Snake f/bthrow to Wario. Wario dthrow back. Snake does it again, and Wario does it again.
3. Snake does dthrow, then walks forward and tranqs. If Yoshi rolls towards Snake, he gets tranqed. If he rolls towards Wario, he gets grabbed. Getup and getup attack also get him grabbed by Wario.
4. If Wario grabs, then he dthrows to Snake and the dthrow is retried. Fearing the Wario, they will usually tech away the first time, and if not then almost definitely the second time. If not, the dthrow techchase is repeated until either Yoshi gets tranqed or Snake runs out of ammo. If Yoshi is tranqed, Snake stickies him and hands him off to Wario. If Snake runs out of ammo and Wario grabs Yoshi, Snake still stickies him. Either way Yoshi is stickied and in Wario's grab.
5. Wario uthrows and Snake fairs. Snake goes the way he was facing to cover the techchase option, and Wario readies himself the other way. If Yoshi rolls one way, Snake gets the grab. If he rolls the other way, Wario gets it. If he does neutral tech, Wario can react with dash grab. If he stays laying down, Wario and Snake hold position. If he rolls, he'll get grabbed. If he gets up, he'll get grabbed (usually). If he get up attacks he'll usually get grabbed. Snake tranq helps a lot in this situation, too. Either way he'll get grabbed by Wario or Snake.
6. If he's in Wario's grab, Wario dthrows to Snake. If in Snake's grab, then it just goes on to 7.
7. Snake f/bthrow into Wario. Here we can either have Wario utilt him (i'll say "up-tilt" and detonate after the utilt for the kill) or grab him (i'll say grab). If he's dead, yay! If he's grabbed, go to 8 for MORE HYPE.
8. If we feel he's not at a high enough percent, we'll do the chaingrab a bit. Else, I'll say "uthrow uair". Wario uthrows, Snake uairs, Snake detonates. It's over! We win! Yay!





SPENZU and I still have to work on this a lot. It's a brand new team but we're hyped. Please share any ideas about Snake in teams. I might edit the original post and make it pretty and stuff. It doesn't just have to be Wario stuff! But expect more Snake/Wario tactics.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

On some throws you can detonate a C4 stickied on your partner when the partner throws and the opponent dies. It works if a upward momentum is on your opponent and you stop the throw animation and keep the momentum. It works on MK's up-throw (maybe also Kirby's or Zard's)

 

[SSS]

On some throws you can detonate a C4 stickied on your partner when the partner throws and the opponent dies. It works if a upward momentum is on your opponent and you stop the throw animation and keep the momentum. It works on MK's up-throw (maybe also Kirby's or Zard's)

Yo that's pretty hype.

How do you think grenades could work in teams?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Against pressure they are even better than in singles. Also there shield + grenade is a great defensive tool but grabs being worse in doubles and shields being better makes that option even better. AGT tricks are a bit worse though because you expose your self more with the movement and while it is manageable to react accordingly to one opponent trying to punish you for the relatively time-intensive maneouvre, two opponents will probably get you. Also port priority things can be use with grenades. This isn't a nice techniques because you must rely on that "unfair" advantage, but while you have the port priority and grab and it explodes, both get the damage but only he gets the knockback. That "damage-for-everyone" attribute can be a double-edged-sword in doubles but I imagine it to have even more uses in doubles, also some not dependent on port priority.
EDIT: Instead of the sticky, grenades work too for the up-throw gimps (at least they did in Brawl so probably they do now too)

 

[SSS]

i feel like sticky is easier to pull off in the middle of a hectic 2v2

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yes it is definitely. Just wanted to add the information ^^

 

[cisyphus]

I'm going to revive this because I've started to really become interested in teams with a Sheik player. How prosperous do y'all think that is? I also team semi-frequently with a Sonic/Charizard main and a teamed well with a Falcon main as well. What do y'all think is a good teammate for Snake?

It definitely requires a smart use of stickies and good awareness from both parties, but the amount of assists that Snake can provide are really quite amazing.

 

[BND]

Snake technically has a lot going for him in the sense of "he has a lot to abuse that can only be done if he's fighting more than 1 person": great burst damage AoE (Up-B -> up air generates a lot of hitlag with the initial up-B hurtbox and gets people off of him handily in a cluster while dealing great damage since everyone's probably going to be DIing in, and grenades wreck everything), confusion makes stickies free when everyone's together, he's capable of playing volleyball with opponents with backair, and he still has a great 1v1 combo game if he grabs an opponent. He also lives forever and gets back to the stage pretty quick at high percents due to C4 walltech.

Of course, the only problem is that most of the teams matches that I've watched, and a lot of matches that I've played, negates several of these advantages, because apparently 2v2 is more of 2 1v1s. That's supposedly great for snake since his 1v1 potential's pretty good, but his main advantage is in his combo game rather than his neutral, which is rendered sort of moot since long combos will probably get disrupted before a kill. This also means that he can't use his crowd control potential (Nerfed too since 3.02 removed cypher invincibility), which sort of relegates him to a support character that helps control the stage and secure kills. I don't do much of that, so I won't say anything about it.

As for teammates, Snake probably benefits the most from a preferably small (so that they don't get stuck unintentionally), reasonably fast characters with no/few projectiles and decent offstage edgeguard potential. This is because Snake has a sort-of-ok proxy on-stage edgeguard game with his mines, and can clear them himself if the offstage edgeguard attempt succeeds while 1v1ing to prevent counter-edgeguards. Snake can also stick his teammate for additional recovery if something in the edgeguard goes haywire. Kirby comes to mind, obviously, since my 2v2 partner plays Kirby, which also gives us access to additional shenanigans (a lot of which don't really work well, like omnigaying, but there's definitely more gimmick potential than with other characters). The only problem is that Kirby gets killed easily by mines, C4, and even grenades, though I'd say the team still probably has the most potential out of all of Snake's other partners.

...Except for maybe another snake ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[EastCoastEddie]

I like teaming with ZSS. All her stuns and combos plus Snakes punishes seems like it could be really good. I feel like they compliment each other's weaknesses well too.

Though lately I've been having a lot of fun teaming with a Jigglypuff. Tranq to Rest is real and if they are good they can also get rests out of Snakes back throw and forward throw. Jiggs also has plenty of maneuverability around Snake's traps/grenades. Though if not careful, obviously Jiggs can fall prey to those traps pretty hard because of how light she is. It can be tricky sometimes since neither of them are "fast" characters that can help out there partner quickly when they are in a jam but I do think the team has potential.

I think you have to mix up your game quite a bit when playing dubs. Snake has combos that are really devastating but they also take a lot of time to pull off. He still racks up damage even after just 2 hits though so as long as you are paying attention and do not get tunnel vision, I think he can be quite good in teams.

 

[WilfordBrimley]

2 favorite characters that i enjoy teaming wit is luigi and zelda

 

[TheBOSS]

Babaganoush here...

Snake imo is top 5 in teams. His ability to stock tank, save his teammate, and get huge punishes in dubs is amazing. At the end of the day however, Snake in teams is godlike when there is true team synergy.

Best Partners for snake no order:
fox (lucky and i run this team)
metaknight
squirtle

Snake works best with aggressive characters who have a lot of kill potential; especially those who have a lot of upward killing attacks. c4 stick in teams is everything for snake. communication during game play with your partner is a must.

 

[cisyphus]

You forgot the best Snake partner of all

Another Snake.

On the real Anther and I teamed at Summit and I think Pikachu is amazing for Snake for a lot of the same reasons Fox is good.