Smash64 mod?

[Pikmin1211]

So, Brawl has like, 5 or 6 or something mods, and Melee has that SD remix thing. I'm surprised nobody has made anything for 64. Especially what with Project64k and all. Is there a reason? Is 64 hard to hack?
Or do people just not care about 64 enough?

 

[Madao]

Or do people just not care about 64 enough?

Yup .

 

[Cobrevolution]

there's the madao patch which is pretty cool and balancing

 

[clubbadubba]

i think stuff was done a long time ago that actually changed movesets, for example falcon had a knee. I think 64 people are much more interested in modding melee/brawl to be more like 64 than they are in modding 64 lol. There have been a couple recent projects attempting to mod brawl to be 64 like I think, not sure how far along they've gotten.

 

[Pikmin1211]

i think stuff was done a long time ago that actually changed movesets, for example falcon had a knee. I think 64 people are much more interested in modding melee/brawl to be more like 64 than they are in modding 64 lol. There have been a couple recent projects attempting to mod brawl to be 64 like I think, not sure how far along they've gotten.

As I recall they've mostly been failures.

 

[Skrlx]

It's the same reason why editing the actual SSB ROM has not gone as far as other games like SM64. There's no dedication; no people willing to invest all that time. The reason why people prefer to mod Brawl to be like 64 instead of the other way around is because it's easier to mod in a sense. A lot of knowledge/references and tools are available thanks to the work of the PM devs. This makes it a lot easier to mod the game. However, it would be hard work to get it to be exactly like 64. This is where the notion that you should mod the SSB ROM instead comes from. In my project, I stated that I wanted more stages. While that may be extremely easy to do in a Brawl mod, it would be strenuous work to get the game to be exactly like SSB. So why not mod the actual SSB ROM to avoid all that trouble of making it be like 64 and just add stages? It's lack of dedication.

I've thought about this, and if there is an advantage towards making Brawl like 64, it's that those proposed changes are a lot easier to have in a console setting. Think about it. If we were somehow able to achieve all those things like adding stages or maybe even adding buffs or nerfs to characters in the SSB ROM, how will we get the edited version on a console? Everyone will have to get a Gameshark for their N64 or maybe patch their cart's ROM. (The latter being not feasible iirc; something about memory.) I think the goal of a 64 mod should be to promote the game. Make it more easily available to pick up by other players. By going with the SSB ROM route, you are negating this. With the Brawl mod route, you are making it a lot more accessible.

Modding the SSB ROM to keep all the native code while adding new content like stages is the superior way to go, but lack of accessibility comes to mind for me. That alone, in my mind, is enough to not go this route. Unless we can somehow get this edited version to run in the Wii's VC without frame skipping.

Modding Brawl to make it like 64 will be a huge undertaking. So while it may be hard to get it to be exactly like 64, it will be infinitely easier to add new content. You have the choice of keeping the same look or have it be more "updated." Teams will not lag. Accessibility will be at an all time high. Anyone with a Wii or Wii U can run this, a new option for controllers would be added, and updated graphics would entice players to try it out. New players would not have to scour the Internet for "good" controllers and not deal with the N64's bad analog stick. Meanwhile, people that want to use an N64 controller can simply get an adapter that will work just fine. (N64 to GC.) This option will also not negate the ability to play online. Dolphin allows netplay and people have been playing Melee and PM for a while now without desynchronization.

So while this sounds cool, you still have the huge undertaking of making Brawl work exactly like SSB. This is where modding the ROM directly has an advantage.

So either way you look at it, it's all about who wants to put in the effort and time to get this done.

 

[Madao]

To be fair, N64 games are a bit harder to hack, due to things like compression. At the same time N64 has the advatange of superior debuggers/emulators, so there's pros and cons to both.

It's the same reason why editing the actual SSB ROM has not gone as far as other games like SM64. There's no dedication; no people willing to invest all that time. The reason why people prefer to mod Brawl to be like 64 instead of the other way around is because it's easier to mod in a sense. A lot of knowledge/references and tools are available thanks to the work of the PM devs. This makes it a lot easier to mod the game. However, it would be hard work to get it to be exactly like 64. This is where the notion that you should mod the SSB ROM instead comes from. In my project, I stated that I wanted more stages. While that may be extremely easy to do in a Brawl mod, it would be strenuous work to get the game to be exactly like SSB. So why not mod the actual SSB ROM to avoid all that trouble of making it be like 64 and just add stages? It's lack of dedication.

Yup. No one seems willing to do the work. Honestly, it's not even as hard as many people make it out to be. No one bothers to try.

I've thought about this, and if there is an advantage towards making Brawl like 64, it's that those proposed changes are a lot easier to have in a console setting. Think about it. If we were somehow able to achieve all those things like adding stages or maybe even adding buffs or nerfs to characters in the SSB ROM, how will we get the edited version on a console? Everyone will have to get a Gameshark for their N64 or maybe patch their cart's ROM. (The latter being not feasible iirc; something about memory.) I think the goal of a 64 mod should be to promote the game. Make it more easily available to pick up by other players. By going with the SSB ROM route, you are negating this. With the Brawl mod route, you are making it a lot more accessible.

That's probably the best reason to make a Brawl mod instead of mod the original rom. Console is a nice option to have.

Modding the SSB ROM to keep all the native code while adding new content like stages is the superior way to go, but lack of accessibility comes to mind for me. That alone, in my mind, is enough to not go this route. Unless we can somehow get this edited version to run in the Wii's VC without frame skipping.

I'm pretty sure you can just convert the n64 rom into a wad. If there's a problem with that, then you would have to take out the frame skipping code which is possible. You'll just need to modify rom / use a gameshark code to remove the frame skipping. With VC, I'm sure it would still be difficult to do stage hacks and other stuff though.

So while this sounds cool, you still have the huge undertaking of making Brawl work exactly like SSB. This is where modding the ROM directly has an advantage.

It seems like the best option would be to hack the original ROM. If I'm correct that you can inject roms to wad without issues, then you could hack the rom, then play it on either N64 emulator, n64 console (if you have special hardware), VC, or Dolphin.

Desynching is only an issue if you use a bad emulator like PJ64k. It's still possible to desync on better emulators, but much less likely (with p2p anyway).

So either way you look at it, it's all about who wants to put in the effort and time to get this done.

Indeed. So is there some chance you may decide to give this another try?

 

[Pikmin1211]

Those are all good points. And I agree, nobody really seems to want to take the time for a Brawl N64 mod.

 

[Danny_SsB]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWxV99Xpjs&index=1&list=PLJi0EixQ3cL2EF4M1yOXNTFhrBFrUdPH1

 

[Pikmin1211]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWxV99Xpjs&index=1&list=PLJi0EixQ3cL2EF4M1yOXNTFhrBFrUdPH1

Whoa. That's actually really impressive.

 

[Madao]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

Hey man! It's been a while ;/ . Are you still interested in hacking Super Smash Bros64? I have some new ideas to try out.

 

[Studstill]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

Those are all good points. And I agree, nobody really seems to want to take the time for a Brawl N64 mod.

Modding the SSB ROM to keep all the native code while adding new content like stages is the superior way to go. but lack of accessibility
So either way you look at it, it's all about who wants to put in the effort and time to get this done.

Hey man! It's been a while ;/ . Are you still interested in hacking Super Smash Bros64? I have some new ideas to try out.

Yeah man, let`s just get this done.
Pm me. With what you want, what you want to do, etc.

 

[UNKN{OWN}iXi]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWxV99Xpjs&index=1&list=PLJi0EixQ3cL2EF4M1yOXNTFhrBFrUdPH1

lol I remember this Danny, good stuff.

 

[caneut]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWxV99Xpjs&index=1&list=PLJi0EixQ3cL2EF4M1yOXNTFhrBFrUdPH1

Wow u r l33t h4x0r can u do more pls? will d0nate!!!!

 

[WOTG]

Here is a mod I did a long time ago and due to time constraints and to inject the rom gameshark codes I let discontinued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWxV99Xpjs&index=1&list=PLJi0EixQ3cL2EF4M1yOXNTFhrBFrUdPH1

Did you guys mod the music too, or is the music added after the match was recorded? I always wanted to make a music mod.

 

[Studstill]

My pm box is sill in the 'talk talk talk' phase. Plus, I`m pretty sure Madao will just quit if no one caaaares. Don`t quit Madao! billions of people need you.

 

[Madao]

Did you guys mod the music too, or is the music added after the match was recorded? I always wanted to make a music mod.

They added the music after the match was recorded. The amount of time and knowledge required is very high, to be able to actually put music into a game. The best anyone here could do is music swap and even that, I have yet to see anyone post codes for.

My pm box is sill in the 'talk talk talk' phase. Plus, I`m pretty sure Madao will just quit if no one caaaares. Don`t quit Madao! billions of people need you.

At this point I've pretty much moved on already. Reverse engineering video games is fun every now and then, but it's not something I want to spend countless hours doing. It's much more fun to create my own software, than figure out someone elses software. Maybe my interest will come back when you're smart enough to actually accomplish important goals. I'm done doing everything myself.

I couldn't even be bothered figuring out how to compress the rom, so that will have to wait until Zoinkity finishes his file inserter (which may never happen, since he's a busy person). At this point, I'm having a lot more fun learning other things.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

My pm box is sill in the 'talk talk talk' phase.

thats literally all you do for anything

 

[Cobrevolution]

Maybe my interest will come back when you're smart enough to actually accomplish important goals.

this is a great statement and 100% accurate

 

[Studstill]

Again more of the regular abuse suffered upon me by Madao. Don`t quit, you just made your thing, and it`s helpful. **** you Rob. lol, you don`t even know what a frame is. Steve, I`m sorry I`m not as rich as you and can just travel and give people huge sums of money. Also, you have **** knowledge about this game, you`ve played for a year or what and essentially bought any respect anyone has for your game.

Danny/Noka/Dark `s stuff is the best ever. Madao is an incredible engineer, but yeah, it`s difficult and I`m trying at least. Skrlx, if you care, then get up on Skype with Madao and me. LD was doing some stuff for a minute, and Shears is busy with the website, as am I. But yeah, I will devote every second of free time to this, as Madao can attest.

 

[Madao]

Again more of the regular abuse suffered upon me by Madao.

Oh please...

Don`t quit, you just made your thing, and it`s helpful.

I lost interest due to lack of progress made by people like yourself. Why should I spend time helping people like you, who can't accomplish anything on your own? I'm pretty busy now.

Madao is an incredible engineer, but yeah, it`s difficult and I`m trying at least.

... You boast about how easy everything is and how intelligent you are. Now you're making these excuses saying it's difficult? Even I have a hard time believing you put serious effort into this. You can't even understand basic concepts like random number generation and how having different values can cause desync... Spelling things out for you is a waste of time because at the end of the day, you still don't get it. It also gets annoying when I answer your question and you repeatedly keep asking the same question...

But yeah, I will devote every second of free time to this, as Madao can attest.

LOL! Photoshop and website is all you ever do.. Again, I challenge you to prove me wrong. Try accomplishing something significant, based on the knowledge already provided. I love how you claim N64 emulators suck, my calculator is flawed, plugins suck, nobody has done anything for this game in 15 years, etc.


Atm I only mess around with hacking Smash64 when I have ideas to try. No point in trying the same old ideas that are ineffective for some of the things I haven't found. I hope to one day figure out animation data and how that all works. It would be cool to balance characters one day.

Anyway @ Skrlx , what's your plan?

 

[caneut]

Oh please...

I lost interest due to lack of progress made by people like yourself. Why should I spend time helping people like you, who can't accomplish anything on your own? I'm pretty busy now.

... You boast about how easy everything is and how intelligent you are. Now you're making these excuses saying it's difficult? Even I have a hard time believing you put serious effort into this. You can't even understand basic concepts like random number generation and how having different values can cause desync... Spelling things out for you is a waste of time because at the end of the day, you still don't get it. It also gets annoying when I answer your question and you repeatedly keep asking the same question...

LOL! Photoshop and website is all you ever do.. Again, I challenge you to prove me wrong. Try accomplishing something significant, based on the knowledge already provided. I love how you claim N64 emulators suck, my calculator is flawed, plugins suck, nobody has done anything for this game in 15 years, etc.


Atm I only mess around with hacking Smash64 when I have ideas to try. No point in trying the same old ideas that are ineffective for some of the things I haven't found. I hope to one day figure out animation data and how that all works. It would be cool to balance characters one day.

Anyway @ Skrlx , what's your plan?

Question about animation, I know a lot of people usually ask you for a mod to change movesets, and with that obviously comes animation changes. How hard is it just to change the hitbox durations/size/damage/priority of a move without the animation? I'm sure most of us are adults who can work with hitboxes that don't completely fit the animation, and I for one would love to see a moveset change without kirby utilt or broken pika grab/air attacks.

 

[Madao]

Question about animation, I know a lot of people usually ask you for a mod to change movesets, and with that obviously comes animation changes. How hard is it just to change the hitbox durations/size/damage/priority of a move without the animation? I'm sure most of us are adults who can work with hitboxes that don't completely fit the animation, and I for one would love to see a moveset change without kirby utilt or broken pika grab/air attacks.

Depends. With cheat engine/ memory editor, it's very easy to change. With gameshark it would have to be match specific like stage, mode, item settings, each player character, etc, so it would be a hassle to make GS codes for. Rom hacking hitbox will be easy, once Zoinkity releases a file inserter.

The only possible challenge after that will be dealing with the size difference of the data. You'll have to do more work if you want to add additional data. Basically changing values is trivial, but adding new hitboxes or other hitbox properties would take a bit of work.

 

[caneut]

You'll have to do more work if you want to add additional data. Basically changing values is trivial, but adding new hitboxes or other hitbox properties would take a bit of work.

Lol no, I'm like studstill and have 0 knowledge about any computer language or anything like that. I'm just very proficient at google and can wow society people.

 

[Madao]

Lol no, I'm like studstill and have 0 knowledge about any computer language or anything like that. I'm just very proficient at google and can wow society people.

Lol I forget that not all my information I have is public knowledge.

Anyway I was basically saying it's easy to change numbers. The problem is when you have to add data. Subtracting isn't as hard because you can just add filler, although I don't really see much of a need for subtracting. The hitbox data formula has already been reverse engineered by Toomai and myself. With a tool (I haven't 100% completed mine yet), you could type in all the values you desire (like 10 damage 20 base knockback, 130 Knockback scaling, 55 angle, etc) and it will generate the hex code for you. That's why I said it's simple to replace numbers.

I tried asking people to test stuff out, but no one bothered .

In the meantime, if you're interested in hitbox data, check out http://smashboards.com/threads/moveset-data-thread-chart-updated-dec-04-12.329221/

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

LOL! Photoshop and website is all you ever do.. Again, I challenge you to prove me wrong.

actually all studstill does for the website is pick colors and pays $8 a month for the domain. He is too incompetent to do anything that takes more mental skill than the level of a 12 year old..

Which is part of the reason why my 13 year old sibling is a better kirby player than Studstill LOL

 

[Studstill]

EDIT: Nevermind.
Summary:
Madao, I`m sorry you think I`m learning too slowly.
Steve, I thought we had agreed to be adults.

 

[Madao]

EDIT: Nevermind.
Summary:
Madao, I`m sorry you think I`m learning too slowly.

You're lame for editing your post ;/ .. Either you don't understand plain english or you didn't even read my post... This is the exact reason I lost interest.

I would never say harsh things to a person who actually tried their best and couldn't succeed, unless I strongly disliked them. The delusion and BS excuses is just too strong...

On topic, is there anyone else who is interested in making codes, or modding the game? And I mean willing to do at least some work.

 

[Cobrevolution]

that non edited version was pretty amusing.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

EDIT: Nevermind.
Summary:
Madao, I`m sorry you think I`m learning too slowly.
Steve, I thought we had agreed to be adults.

Posted that before our chat