Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TyrantLizardKing]

lucina being a clone of marth makes perfect se3nse. she literally pretends to be marth. how is that not worthy of being a clone of marth? amkes way more sense than having dark samus be a clone of samus. Richter and Simon arent even clones of each other they are a combination of each other so that also works.
but chrom being a clone of roy is just wrong. no connection to each other. different weapons and one is actually popular to FE fans and one has been carried by smash.

Lucina taking Marth's name means jack all. Their relationship is split up by several generations and they come from different eras. In Warriors their movesets are completely different: Marth's focuses on strong, precise strikes while Lucina's is about fast swings and low-power hits.

Dark Samus was literally born from absorbing Samus' DNA and Phazon Suit. It mimics her physique down to the arm cannon and always shared some abilities with her like Missiles and the Morph Ball. It makes more sense for her to be an Echo than it does Lucina.

Richter was brought in because Simon's moveset was already borrowing so much from him and some Belmonts play similarly in their home series already, so there's no issue there.

Chrom to me makes sense as a clone of Roy, who has a very reckless, over-the-top fighting style that we know Chrom has canonically. I like that they went the extra mile to give him a different, more accurate up special.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Question, out of all the cinematic Final Smashes.


Which one is your favorite?

It's simple, Simon/Richter and King K Rool is my favorite.

 

[doomedtacox]

You could say the same thing about K. Rool, Chrom, Daisy.

K Rool and Chrom, yes. But Daisy, one the most well known Mario characters? Hell no.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Everything.

Hmm, is it fully playable in handheld mode, controller style?

 

[Luigi The President]

K Rool and Chrom, yes. But Daisy, one the most well known Mario characters? Hell no.

Nah dog. In Smash? Absolutely.
And even if you're gonna disregard Daisy there's still K. Rool and Chrom. Among others.

 

[Luigifan18]

>pokemon
>ain't exactly metal gear Solid levels of plot twist

Well, yeah. But Pokemon BW and B2W2's plot actually feel like **** was going to get real with Ghetsis and his team Plasma very involved in the plot. That's same story I wanted after gen 5. Too bad, Pokemon XY's plot was rushed with "oh look there's hidden weapon of destruction used by some man in the past" and the fact big bad's plot is so ridiculous because he wants to commit the genocide on the whole world all for fabulous! (RIP Z, we could have B2W2-type plot in Z but instead they clopped it and went to gen 7 right away.)

That, and goddamn kanto pandering so much in pokemon SM and USUM! You can notice it very easily with those aloha forms of kanto pokemon and not other gens pokemon in the sight! Pokemon Let's go is an perfect example of kanto pandering being so hard in general.

Hey, the genwunners are an important audience to pander to, right? Surely they're not just a toxic, unpleasable mess too caught up in their own nostalgia to recognize a good idea unless it was conceived while they were children!

 

[Bee Card]

Simon Belmont easily. GRAND CROSS!

GURANDO KUROSU !!

 

[doomedtacox]

Nah dog. In Smash? Absolutely.
And even if you're gonna disregard Daisy there's still K. Rool and Chrom. Among others.

You think Geno is more popular among the entire smash install base than Daisy? Do you have any idea how many casuals and Kids play this game?

 

[Luigi The President]

You think Geno is more popular among the entire smash install base than Daisy? Do you have any idea how many casuals and Kids play this game?

Did you read the rest of my post

 

[Deleted member]

I have a compromise.
CUT RIKI.

This is a better solution, but if it were up to me, I'd leave Chain Attack as it was in Smash 4, and then make Reyn Fiora an assist trophy in Riki's place.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This is a better solution, but if it were up to me, I'd leave Chain Attack as it was in Smash 4, and then make Reyn Fiora an assist trophy in Riki's place.

Now it's Reyn Time

I would like to have more Mii Customes from Fire Emblem.

I'd be fine with anything Fire Emblem if I'm being honest with ya

 

[Troykv]

I would like to have more Mii Customes from Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

Question, out of all the cinematic Final Smashes.


Which one is your favorite?

Gotta be megaman. Straight-up jawdropping when you first see it (okay maybe that’s exaggerating a bit)


Also have I missed anything important in the last 20 or so pages?

 

[doomedtacox]

Did you read the rest of my post

I mean I feel like a significant portion of the total install base has positive opinions of her or at the very least knows who she is.

 

[Blargg888]

I would like to have more Mii Customes from Fire Emblem.

I'd love an Eliwood, Eirika, Alm, or Leif costume for Swordfighter.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean I feel like a significant portion of the total install base has positive opinions of her or at the very least knows who she is.

No I'm telling you even if you bin the Daisy point the K. Rool, Chrom point still stands

 

[Noipoi]

I would like to have more Mii Customes from Fire Emblem.

Tharja Mii costume please.

 

[PsySmasher]

Question, out of all the cinematic Final Smashes.


Which one is your favorite?

It's brutal, destructive, and vicious. I love it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Why are we arguing character popularity?

May I point out, before they were added to Smash (regarding the target audience):

-Ice Climbers (my main duo)
-Mr. Game & Watch (he's cool but most of the target audience wouldn't know what a Game & Watch is)
-Maybe Ness & Lucas (I love their series, but I feel the general population wouldn't know what games they're from (at least in the West), the target audience much less)
-R.O.B (the hero of USA videogames, yet still not very well-known outside of Smash especially to young'uns everywhere)
-Falcon Punch Man
-That dude named Metroid
-Fire Emblem
-Xenoblade

If Geno were added (or any other "irrelevant/not well-known" character), his popularity could skyrocket much like these other characters.

 

[Deleted member]

That dude named Metroid

I'm still hoping for Halo so that he can finally fight Metroid.

 

[T3Z3R1]

If we're lucky the existence of another Kanto game will make Gamefreak ease up on the pandering.

If only...

Well, yeah. Last thing I need is no more ****ing kanto pandering in gen 8 anymore! Don't focus on older pokemon, just focus on those upcoming new pokemon instead of "look at this old pokemon! It will have new mega/whatever region form".

Hey, the genwunners are an important audience to pander to, right? Surely they're not just a toxic, unpleasable mess too caught up in their own nostalgia to recognize a good idea unless it was conceived while they were children!

Yeah, yeah. this is why genwunners was greatest mistake of all time that was happened to pokemon fandom! They like to be caught up in nostalgia, and refused to believed that if it was ****ty game, they can believe that game with kanto pandering was so good in their heart!

In other words, Gamefreak shouldn't market the game with signs of kanto pandering toward the genwunners! THIS IS WHY POKEMON LETS GO IS SEEN AS PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS ****

 

[PlugMeister]

Sorry to interrupt, but is there a place that has nice, high-quality renders of all of the current stock icons?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Dark Samus absolutely could/should be a unique fighter, but I'm still happy about the clone version because:

1. We still get high quality art, music, and animations for the character
2. We get an Amiibo!
3. Brought back into relevance regardless of how the Metroid series treats the character going forwards
4. They did a really good job of injecting its' personality into a copy of Samus' moveset

 

[Noipoi]

I'm still hoping for Halo so that he can finally fight Metroid.

Halo will win.
Metroid can't crawl, but Halo doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think people seriously over-estimate just how ''popular" Daisy is with the casual audience.

I've yet to meet a single non-hardcore gamer who says their favorite Mario character is Daisy.

Most of them actually find her really annoying. Lol.

 

[Troykv]

I think people seriously over-estimate just how ''popular" Daisy is with the casual audience.

I've yet to meet a single non-hardcore gamer who says their favorite Mario character is Daisy.

Most of them actually find her really annoying. Lol.

Daisy is popular? Hard to say; depend who you ask.

But is she recognizable? Of course she is.

 

[Diem]

Why are we arguing character popularity?

May I point out, before they were added to Smash (regarding the target audience):

-Ice Climbers (my main duo)
-Mr. Game & Watch (he's cool but most of the target audience wouldn't know what a Game & Watch is)
-Maybe Ness & Lucas (I love their series, but I feel the general population wouldn't know what games they're from (at least in the West), the target audience much less)
-R.O.B (the hero of USA videogames, yet still not very well-known outside of Smash)
-Falcon Punch Man
-That dude named Metroid
-Fire Emblem
-Xenoblade

If Geno were added (or any other "irrelevant/not well-known" character), his popularity could skyrocket much like these other characters.

Character popularity/relevance is one of those things people take as black and white--either it's all that matters, or it doesn't matter at all.

Truth is, it does matter, but it's just one of many factors that go into character decision. Sakurai has explicitly stated that he's considered characters, then decided against them primarily due to them not having enough popularity, particularly internationally. Takamaru and Ayumi Tachibana are both characters Sakurai has considered, but then said that they wouldn't work outside of Japan.

Then in an interview in 2014, when the interviewer jokingly proposed Reggie/Miyamoto/Iwata being playable characters outside of Miis, Sakurai said "I don’t think the inclusion of these characters would be very interesting to a wide audience. For the amount of effort involved, I would actually prefer to add another roster character. As it takes a lot of work to add a character to the game, it’s not a decision that can be taken lightly."

So popularity/relevancy does matter. It's just that sometimes the other factors are able to overshadow that issue.

 

[Will]

I would like to have more Mii Customes from Fire Emblem.

If this was anywhere else you'd be arrested for blasphemy.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Well, yeah. Last thing I need is no more ****ing kanto pandering in gen 8 anymore! Don't focus on older pokemon, just focus on those upcoming new pokemon instead of "look at this old pokemon! It will have new mega/whatever region form".



Yeah, yeah. this is why genwunners was greatest mistake of all time that was happened to pokemon fandom! They like to be caught up in nostalgia, and refused to believed that if it was ****ty game, they can believe that game with kanto pandering was so good in their heart!

In other words, Gamefreak shouldn't market the game with signs of kanto pandering toward the genwunners! THIS IS WHY POKEMON LETS GO IS SEEN AS PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS ****

It sounds to me like you need to stop to take a breather, buddy. Remakes are nothing new. I dislike Let's Go overly casual direction but it's not much more "Kanto pandering" then ORAS was "Hoenn pandering". Well, aside from no Pokemon beyond Gen 1 but I get the impression that was a resource issue.

It's also a shame that Alola forms were Kantomon, but I don't see what's such a huge deal about that, especially when balance wise Kanto mons need new buffs and niches the most because of powercreep.

 

[Kingslime304]

Question, out of all the cinematic Final Smashes.


Which one is your favorite?

Simon/Richter just goes ****ing ham on that **** by beating the **** out of it, knock it straight up, and use a burning grand holy attack while the opponent is trapped in the box.

 

[doomedtacox]

No I'm telling you even if you bin the Daisy point the K. Rool, Chrom point still stands

I wasn't arguing whether that makes him unlikely to be included in the game, I was just saying I don't think he's actually that popular when you take every smash player into account.

 

[staindgrey]

lucina being a clone of marth makes perfect se3nse. she literally pretends to be marth. how is that not worthy of being a clone of marth? amkes way more sense than having dark samus be a clone of samus. Richter and Simon arent even clones of each other they are a combination of each other so that also works.
but chrom being a clone of roy is just wrong. no connection to each other. different weapons and one is actually popular to FE fans and one has been carried by smash.

But here's the thing.

Marth is a legendary figure whom she has never met because he's been presumably dead for thousands of years. It'd be like me pretending to be Alexander the Great and somehow being exactly like him through sheer luck. She donned the name Marth to avoid explaining who she really was and what her real purpose was, not because she had any actual legitimate attachments to a dead figure.

It made sense within the context of Smash 4, but Chrom showing up threw a wrench into that. Chrom taught Lucina how to fight, not Marth. And it even becomes a point of the plot when they fight evenly and Chrom recognizes all his own moves, asking, "Who trained you??" to which she replies, "MY FATHER". In FE Warriors, for example, Lucina is derivative of Chrom's moveset, not Marth's. Canonically speaking, Smash Ultimate has the Marth clones all wrong.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh you mean for World of Light? The fact that it may not be local co-op? Do we know for sure that it's single player only?

No I mean various characters teaming up before all getting together as SSE had shown with.

 

[Luigi The President]

I wasn't arguing whether that makes him unlikely to be included in the game, I was just saying I don't think he's actually that popular when you take every smash player into account.

Few Ultimate characters are popular when all are taken into account
Most of Ultimate's newcomers don't really appeal to a wide scale
They appeal to the Smash fanbase specifically-like Geno would

 

[Kingslime304]

"No, we still have the victim's dying message"
"Dying message?"
"But what could 'Xun PTSD' mean?"

Spoiler

View attachment 178044

"Perhaps the killer was suffering from some sort of special disorder?"


Megaman's

Kind of ironic since Psyduck and Sayaka are both psychic.

 

[Radical Bones]

Can I just take a minute to say how impressed I am that this game has so much more of a personality than the previous iteration? It's great to see a return to each Smash game having it's own feel, where as 4 felt a tiny bit lifeless in my opinion.

 

[Dyamanttine]

You could say the same thing about K. Rool, Chrom, Daisy.

Dont even go there dude, they are much more popular than Geno... Especially K. Rool, who is the real winner of the ballot

 

[doomedtacox]

Few Ultimate characters are popular when all are taken into account
Most of Ultimate's newcomers don't really appeal to a wide scale
They appeal to the Smash fanbase specifically-like Geno would

Yeah but to say he has "immense popularity in Japan and NA with the fanbase" is just wrong. There are characters who are immensely popular though, like Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Pac man, etc.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Character popularity/relevance is one of those things people take as black and white--either it's all that matters, or it doesn't matter at all.

Truth is, it does matter, but it's just one of many factors that go into character decision. Sakurai has explicitly stated that he's considered characters, then decided against them primarily due to them not having enough popularity, particularly internationally. Takamaru and Ayumi Tachibana are both characters Sakurai has considered, but then said that they wouldn't work outside of Japan.

Then in an interview in 2014, when the interviewer jokingly proposed Reggie/Miyamoto/Iwata being playable characters outside of Miis, Sakurai said "I don’t think the inclusion of these characters would be very interesting to a wide audience. For the amount of effort involved, I would actually prefer to add another roster character. As it takes a lot of work to add a character to the game, it’s not a decision that can be taken lightly."

So popularity/relevancy does matter. It's just that sometimes the other factors are able to overshadow that issue.

Thanks for reminding me about some of Sakurai's statements.

I feel it does matter to an extent - he's not going to add a Stalfos or Lizalfos (sadly) - but there are characters he seems to value for reasons regardless of relevancy. Hopefully Geno could be one of them, as he has mentioned the character being really popular, getting a lot of votes/requests. Hopefully some other characters could be in the game, too, but I feel like they may not be due to leaks along with some already being AT'd (Skull Kid ), but maybe they can make it into next game.

 

[Will]

Can I just take a minute to say how impressed I am that this game has so much more of a personality than the previous iteration? It's great to see a return to each Smash game having it's own feel, where as 4 felt a tiny bit lifeless in my opinion.

How come everyone is saying that about Smash 4 just now all of a sudden? It's like every time a new game comes out this happens. I remember when we were ****ting on Brawl when Smash 4 was in development, and Brawl boys were probably ****talking about Melee back in 2007.