Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KingofPhantoms]

I used to dislike the idea of Steve being in Smash, and mind you, that's coming from a longtime player of Minecraft, who still enjoys the game on the occasions that I do play it nowadays. I've warmed up to the idea over time. I'd be happy to see the guy get into Ultimate! Yeah, it'd cause some uproar, but then again, many other newcomers have as well. Even the likes of Ridley and Isabelle caused a sudden increase in salt, but it was largely a temporary one. The negative outcry against Steve's inclusion would soften over time, as most people will have to come to terms with the fact that the character is in the game, and I don't doubt that many of them will even warm up to him. Eventually, Steve will receive an even warmer reception, so long as the character is handled well as a fighter.

Minecraft has an unfair negative stigma attached to it nowadays. Keeping it short and simple, the sheer publicity it has on the Internet is probably the main cause, especially from numerous Youtube channels that focus almost entirely on the game and promote it, and from the significant portion of it's playerbase that seems to consist of young children. Yeah, kids can be immature and naive, that's no secret. It just seems like today, a lot of them happen to have access to active, public places on the 'net where it really, really shows. People get annoyed by them and the supposed overexposure of the game, and don't want to hear them or anything about the game anymore. All this eventually leads to an exasperation towards the game itself and an influx of stereotype promoting. Not helping the matter is that a lot of people who express a sheer hatred of the game and/or the fanbase honestly aren't exactly mature or reasonable with their hate or criticism, themselves...There's at least two sides that are causing the problem, here. That needs to be known.

So yeah, I'd say that about covers it, as far as giving a simple explanation of the reception goes. The whole situation is one big mess. For me, it's rather disheartening to see, honestly, considering back when I first picked the game up, it was largely just.... popular. The hate for it was far, far quieter, and nowhere near as excessive or irrational as it is now. It's far from the only game to have wound up with such a reception over time, though. Other games have suffered the same kind of fate for very similar reasons, like Call of Duty, Five Nights at Freddy's, Undertale, Fortnite, etc. You won't find it difficult to go out somewhere and find a lot of people who will go berserk over the mere mention of any of these games. You're not obligated to like any of them, but c'mon, lighten up, these games aren't harming your life. Smash is all about gaming icons, and not just Nintendo's anymore, either, so if a Minecraft character is gonna be in Smash, at least give them a shot instead of angrily shutting the idea down.

There are some newcomer ideas that I admittedly do think shouldn't see the light of day, but hey, nowadays, I try to stay open to a bigger variety of ideas. I think all of us should. Stay open. And while you're at it, for those of you out there who are not too fond of Minecraft or the fanbase, try and be a little more reasonable about your criticisms, alright? Yeah, there are some less than mature kids out there who shouldn't be on many parts of the 'net that they are, but insulting them when they don't know any better is far from a good thing to be doing. People are not helping the problem when they **** on the game or anyone who plays it without a second thought.

 

[GoeGoe]

Are you trying to say a blocky avatar wouldn't be unique compared to the rest of the Smash cast? No matter how much you try to deny it, Steve is an iconic character and deserves to get in just as much as many of the other characters people on this forum request.

Are you even trying to understand what I said?
And, nope, He doen't. Why not a Fortnite rep then? makes a lot more profitable sense. Current, a ton more players, sells better, fits the MS x N bill, already a Switch bundle and at least have a personality.

 

[N3ON]

marth is a patchwork version of link because some of his attacks are kinda sorta like some of link's attacks

People will agree with your statement but it's a weak argument as it's limited to general sword-swinging instead of duplicated framing, timing, function and animation groundwork, as I said. They've done this before when strapped for time or resources, especially noticeably with Sonic in Brawl.

Piranha Plant doesn't mimic the "theme" of other characters, and Sonic doesn't either. It's not a matter of both being lithe sword-wielders or other surface parallels. That's what the characters are, it's different from how they're constructed developmentally. It's literally repurposing assets, even should they appear as intangible ones, such as framing. But programming wise it's invaluable, and saying it's non-existent shows a facile understanding of how developers cut costs or work under a deadline.

This video shows the parallels, though I disagree with the labelling as a pseudo-echo-fighter. Clearly Piranha Plant is unique, but that doesn't negate its patchwork creation.

 

[SmashyNess]

Because it's Nintendo that made the suggestions and they would want to bolster sales of recent or upcoming titles, I can see the following DLC happening:
1. Gen 8 Pokémon
2. Rex & Pyra
3. Captain Toad
4. Travis Touchdown
5. Fire Emblem Three Houses character

 

[RyuhoFox]

I just had a thought. What if we could get Jeanne from Bayonetta. But not as an echo and instead she uses a bunch of the weapons from 1 and 2? There's swords, chainsaws, a scythe, a hammer, ice skates, whips, etc. I was thinking till now she would have to be an echo and that would be how she would have to be here to get in but she actually has a lot of moveset potential to be unique.
Bayonetta 3 is also coming out.....sometime through Nintendo's helping again so I could see Nintendo wanting to push a character from there within the next year since it's more than likely that we will get some kind of info on the game in the upcoming year.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Guys sign my petition

This is the most important thing you could do today

Oh god. Is your avatar a Piranha Plant from the cartoon? As soon as I saw that I actually laughed out loud.

 

[osby]

I just had a thought. What if we could get Jeanne from Bayonetta. But not as an echo and instead she uses a bunch of the weapons from 1 and 2? There's swords, chainsaws, a scythe, a hammer, ice skates, whips, etc. I was thinking till now she would have to be an echo and that would be how she would have to be here to get in but she actually has a lot of moveset potential to be unique.
Bayonetta 3 is also coming out.....sometime through Nintendo's helping again so I could see Nintendo wanting to push a character from there within the next year since it's more than likely that we will get some kind of info on the game in the upcoming year.

But Jeanne is already an echo of Bayonetta in her own games. I think she'd work perfectly as an echo in Smash, too. You don't have to cram everything from the base game into a character.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Sakurai didn’t hint at it whatsoever but I wonder if we’ll get some echoes as DLC. Maybe for free sometime down the line

If we do I could see Jeanne making it

 

[Bionichute]

Easily, based on the fact that it's ****ing Minecraft. You know, that one game that's a cultural icon, and is the second best selling video game of all time, only behind Tetris. I assure you there is plenty of overlap with the Smash Bros. userbase, and if Sakurai can sell a ****ing plant to us, he can definitely sell Steve.

i think you? missed the point of this post?

just because YOU like minecraft and want steve in smash, doesn't mean he's instantly popular with everyone because of that. to a lot of people he comes off as a corporate ad instead of someone who would actually be in smash bros. you can talk about sales and popularity, but the amount of people that really like smash bros and really like minecraft aren't as big as you think they are.

smash bros is inherently corporate as a series, its easy to use it to sell stuff, as we saw with smash 4, but people don't like being reminded that corporatism is in their media. it ruins the fun of it, and a lot of people do see minecraft as a corporate, soulless product (even if it really isn't (though i do know hardcore minecraft fans really do not like some of the recent stuff)). steve doesn't fit alongside mario and link, because to most people those characters are something special, transcending the boundaries products. and there are probably people who think of steve like that... but a lot of people who play smash grew up with these characters rather than with minecraft

i don't hate minecraft at all, i think its a very deep game (that is also better than breath of the wild), but i don't want steve because he just doesn't really belong. that's basically what it comes down to for most people, corporatism. the info of nintendo selecting the characters really does not help with this either, and just makes it more apparent

another big problem is nobody is actually capable of picturing what a potential steve set would even be like. steve can't really do a whole lot without making the set really, really weird, and they still have to develop the character within the boundaries of what they can do with the engine. with a character that has such abstract potential, its difficult to actually make any conversation relating to the character himself, which means that the most people can talk about him is about how popular minecraft is and why he should/shouldn't be in, which adds nothing to conversations about him

and i said this before, but if verge hadn't leaked that we were getting minecraft content, we would not be talking about steve outside of weird wants and jokes. he isn't a character people really... wants in smash, in a "true sense". its not like shulk or little mac, or even k rool or ridley. that also adds more issues since people will inevitable start saying that steve took the slot of their favorite character. i'm bound to do that when waddle dee doesn't get in

basically chill the **** out and get that big sales numbers doesn't mean people should want a character in smashed brothers

 

[MaestroDavros]

Just found out that I won't be able to watch The Game Awards live because of my night film class.

 

[RyuhoFox]

But Jeanne is already an echo of Bayonetta in her own games. I think she'd work perfectly as an echo in Smash, too. You don't have to cram everything from the base into a character.

I know but echoes won't be one of the five characters and we don't know if we would get any more echoes otherwise. :/ It also wouldn't be untrue to the games themselves if she used more of the weapons from there. Make her the UMvC3 Dante to Bayo's UMvC3's Vergil. lol

 

[Idon]

I just had a thought. What if we could get Jeanne from Bayonetta. But not as an echo and instead she uses a bunch of the weapons from 1 and 2? There's swords, chainsaws, a scythe, a hammer, ice skates, whips, etc. I was thinking till now she would have to be an echo and that would be how she would have to be here to get in but she actually has a lot of moveset potential to be unique.
Bayonetta 3 is also coming out.....sometime through Nintendo's helping again so I could see Nintendo wanting to push a character from there within the next year since it's more than likely that we will get some kind of info on the game in the upcoming year.

Yeah, no thanks.
I like Bayonetta, but not that much.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I know but echoes won't be one of the five characters and we don't know if we would get any more echoes otherwise. :/ It also wouldn't be untrue to the games themselves if she used more of the weapons from there. Make her the UMvC4 Dante to Bayo's UMvC3's Vergil. lol

Not saying it couldn’t happen but I’m not sure if Jeanne would be a big enough seller to warrant DLC.

For Smash 4 all the non veteran DLC characters were pretty heavy hitters

(And also Corrin, I know)

 

[GoeGoe]

marth is a patchwork version of link because some of his attacks are kinda sorta like some of link's attacks

Just say it bluntly. I'm sick of all those sword fighters XD

 

[KarneraMythos]

My two cents on Steve, as someone who doesn't play Minecraft:

Can Sakurai sell this character to people who don't play Minecraft? I've never played any of Simon Belmont's games before his reveal, and I was skeptical leading up to his announcement that he would be a good fit for Smash's third party choices. The trailer completely destroyed any concerns I had with the character and got me excited as hell for his inclusion in the game, and I instantly played the Classicvanias. Many years ago, Snake's inclusion did the same thing. Can Sakurai do that with Steve? Or is Steve the kind of character that only Minecraft fans really like?

If you're gonna add a third party, I think it should be a character with a broad appeal. Minecraft fans like Steve, and there's a lot of Minecraft fans, but how many of those overlap with the Smash userbase? And how can Steve be presented in a way to get people who have never touched Minecraft excited?

You can talk about the game's popularity and success until the cows come home, but we play as characters, not corporate stand-ins. While it's naive to think a game like Smash isn't littered with corporate mascots that help push software, Steve would feel the most transparent of these by far.

"Deserves" or not, as a complete outsider to Minecraft, nothing about Steve excites me. If he gets in, and I think he might, the world won't end, it'll just be another character out of 70+ that I don't care for. Spilled milk in the big scheme of things.

The funny thing is that not even Minecraft players use Steve. They edit the character in their own way since he's just a base for their stand-ins. What's worse is that adding Steve is the equivalent of adding the default Mii in your Mii Maker as a separate character. I'm almost inclined to believe that Steve is just a Mii Fighter outfit at this point.

We also have another issue that comes from the fanbase, which is just as guilty as the corporate wigs deciding what they want to advertise (let's be fair here, everything is, but it's not inherently evil). A loud subsection of the community cries foul whenever a character they're not familiar with is hinted at being playable. There's this weird hypocrisy in the fanbase where Nintendo is in the wrong for possibly shilling more Mario, FE, and Pokemon, and yet the mere idea of getting more obscure characters suddenly sends that same base in a tizzy.

Seriously, make up your damn minds (not directed you guys though. You guys are cool). Ensemble Dark Horses exist for a reason. The character you don't know today could be a character you like tomorrow, after all. This goes out especially to gamefaqs users. Christ almighty, that Smashboard is objectively terrible...

 

[Bionichute]

Just say it bluntly. I'm sick of all those sword fighters XD

i was being sarcastic to make a point about how stupid it is to call piranha plant a patchwork character

 

[NineS]

I know but echoes won't be one of the five characters and we don't know if we would get any more echoes otherwise. :/ It also wouldn't be untrue to the games themselves if she used more of the weapons from there. Make her the UMvC4 Dante to Bayo's UMvC3's Vergil. lol

Jeanne is to Bayonetta in a similar way to how Marie is to Callie. Does this comparison make any sense in this scenario? No, so let me throw this one away and give you another. Jeanne is to Bayonetta in a similar way to how you could say Ken is to Ryu.

While the possibility of her making it in as a unique fighter is there, it's extremely unlikely due to the fact that, while using more of the game's weapons wouldn't be untrue to the games, it wouldn't be the best and most accurate way to represent Jeanne other than having her echo Bayonetta a lot like how Ken echoes Ryu, or people speculated Shadow would echo Sonic.

 

[GoeGoe]

This video shows the parallels, though I disagree with the labelling as a pseudo-echo-fighter. Clearly Piranha Plant is unique, but that doesn't negate its patchwork creation.

That video missed the upper smash is Mega Man's not Peach.

i was being sarcastic to make a point about how stupid it is to call piranha plant a patchwork character

Oh! well I wasn't being sarcastic XD

 

[ClaTheBae]

Oh god. Is your avatar a Piranha Plant from the cartoon? As soon as I saw that I actually laughed out loud.

No it's actually a Nipper Plant aka these guys

idk why they are so terrifying in the show

 

[RyuhoFox]

Jeanne is to Bayonetta in a similar way to how Marie is to Callie. Does this comparison make any sense in this scenario? No, so let me throw this one away and give you another. Jeanne is to Bayonetta in a similar way to how you could say Ken is to Ryu.

While the possibility of her making it in as a unique fighter is there, it's extremely unlikely due to the fact that, while using more of the game's weapons wouldn't be untrue to the games, it wouldn't be the best and most accurate way to represent Jeanne other than having her echo Bayonetta a lot like how Ken echoes Ryu, or people speculated Shadow would echo Sonic.

I guess so. lol. Just would have like Jeanne and there's so many cool weapons from that series that could be shown off. Rollerskating on chainsaws is amazing.

 

[Deleted member]

Man, ya'll take Steve discussion way too seriously lol. If he gets in, it won't be the end of the world.

 

[osby]

I guess so. lol. Just would have like Jeanne and there's so many cool weapons from that series that could be shown off. Rollerskating on chainsaws is amazing.

I'd love Bayonetta's gf in Smash as much as every other man, but let's be honest, some characters simply doesn't need to be unique.

 

[Bionichute]

Man, ya'll take Steve discussion way too seriously lol. If he gets in, it won't be the end of the world.

doesn't mean its okay to yell at people who don't want steve

 

[NineS]

Seriously, make up your damn minds (not directed you guys though. You guys are cool). Ensemble Dark Horses exist for a reason. The character you don't know today could be a character you like tomorrow, after all. This goes out especially to gamefaqs users. Christ almighty, that Smashboard is objectively terrible...

I'm aware that I'm just spewing repeated words at this point, but I really hope 2B is an Ensemble Dark Horse of Smash. probably not gonna happen though.

No it's actually a Nipper Plant aka these guys

idk why they are so terrifying in the show

Sweet Saltening Sakurai! What did they do to the nippers in the show?!

 

[Deleted member]

doesn't mean its okay to yell at people who don't want steve

No kidding, Sherlock. Hence the "taking this too seriously" part I mentioned.

 

[Bionichute]

basically there are a lot of legitimate reasons to not want steve in smash bros and repeating "MINECRAFT IS SUPER POPULAR AND PLAYED BY MILLIONS" isn't actually going to help any argument you have for him

 

[NineS]

basically there are a lot of legitimate reasons to not want steve in smash bros and repeating "MINECRAFT IS SUPER POPULAR AND PLAYED BY MILLIONS" isn't actually going to help any argument you have for him

you're missing the point.
the argument isn't "you should want steve in smash and here's why".

the argument is, "steve is pretty likely for smash and you shouldn't be surprised if he gets in, and here's why".

 

[Bionichute]

you're missing the point.
the argument isn't "you should want steve in smash and here's why".

the argument is, "steve is pretty likely for smash and you shouldn't be surprised if he gets in, and here's why".

...still doesn't help any arguments for why he isn't a bad choice for dlc

 

[StormC]

Man, ya'll take Steve discussion way too seriously lol. If he gets in, it won't be the end of the world.

I think it's the perception that he would "steal" Banjo-Kazooie's slot...

...even though real galaxy brains know both can get in as DLC.

 

[Cristaran]

Im still supporting Shantae, i cant help but think she still has a chance

 

[KarneraMythos]

I'm aware that I'm just spewing repeated words at this point, but I really hope 2B is an Ensemble Dark Horse of Smash. probably not gonna happen though.

Sweet Saltening Sakurai! What did they do to the nippers in the show?!

At worst, an irrational hatred toward her may spur if she's anything like Bayonetta, but that's purely a gameplay thing and mainly from Nintendo purists. Bayonetta is still well-liked, otherwise we wouldn't pair up with Dante favorably, given their trait connections and sharing the same brain-father. In fact, if you don't consider Katalina a lock at this point, you can assume DLC will be a sausage fest otherwise. If I can get at least two female reps and 2B is one of them, I'd be pretty freaking happy.

Being on the KOS-MOS support group, I can't imagine unfamiliar folk liking her. She's kind of in this weird place where if she gets in first before Heihachi, Lloyd, Klonoa, etc., tons of Namco fans are gonna feel slighted. Ignoring the "****ING ANIME WAIFUS REEEEE" crowd, most detractors are gonna go, "Seriously, her?? She's so bland!"

 

[ClaTheBae]

Why is everyone talking about this guy being in Smash? It would never work

 

[Idon]

Well an SMT rep isn't so much a dark horse as it is a dark mule that's really old and has a limp leg.

Pretty much all of the other horses would have to basically all be wiped out of existence.

 

[Fane]

I think it's the perception that he would "steal" Banjo-Kazooie's slot...

...even though real galaxy brains know both can get in as DLC.

More than likely it.

We got Snake back in Ultimate as well as two new Konami reps from different series, it's really not unlikely that we could see both Steve + Banjo & Kazooie as DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's the perception that he would "steal" Banjo-Kazooie's slot...

...even though real galaxy brains know both can get in as DLC.

No ones stealing any slots. The DLC was already decided. Christ, this whole "slot stealer" mentality is beyond stupid.

...still doesn't help any arguments for why he isn't a bad choice for dlc

So, basically you're just gonna just cross your arms, sit and the corner, and pout about it then? Because that ain't gonna do you any favors, pal.

 

[PsySmasher]

Mod Edit: Context removed due to drug references. (The Super Mario World cartoon has odd designs, so that's the important context)

Just wait until the Illumination Mario movie...

 

[ClaTheBae]

Just wait until the Illumination Mario movie...

I'm a lot more excited for the live action Sonic movie coming out where Jim Carrey is playing Eggman
(no I am not joking that's happening for real in real life)

 

[KarneraMythos]

Well an SMT rep isn't so much a dark horse as it is a dark mule that's really old and has a limp leg.

Pretty much all of the other horses would have to basically all be wiped out of existence.

I respectfully disagree. You and I both know how popular Demi-Fiend is for example. He's not just a Dark Horse either. Seriously, go to any Vs. Battle thread and any time someone brings up Kirby, Shulk, Asura, VOID Shiki, etc. as "Most Overpowered Characters ever", more often than not, Demi-Fiend is thrown in those discussions... and wins. He's like the Chuck Norris of SMT protagonists if the statements weren't hyperbole.

At the very least, I think a Shin Megami Tensei rep is certainly viable for Smash. They've got the world-building, characters, setting, and lore to fit right in.

 

[hazza5557]

If Steve gets in, he’ll get the most people talking out of any character so far. There’ll be more memes than there were with the Piranha Plant. This will definitely help with sales.

 

[Zinith]

Just wait until the Illumination Mario movie...

I can't tell if I would be angry or relieved if my boi didn't end up in that movie...