Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

People got way too hopeful. King K. Rool and Ridley's reveals gave them the false impression that EVERY new character added to the roster would be an old fan favorite boomer pick. But now we know that's not the case. The Grinch leak gave us a lot more to discuss and talk about, but it's obvious it did more harm than good in the long term.

Okay, but can you blame these people? You really can't.

Every fighter in Smash Bros. history is back.
Oh, and Snake is back, too.
28 hours of music, and a lot of new remixes.
"We used the Fighter Ballot."
Castlevania joins the roster.
Training Mode akin for competitive players.
Lots of mechanics that are great for the longevity of the competitive scene, much more fluid.
Battlefield AND Final Destination Forms of every single stage.
Ridley and King K. Rool.
An ACTUAL Adventure Mode.
The Menu UI vastly improved from the last Smash.

I can go on and on, but I can guarantee you that just simply "Ridley and King K. Rool" was the biggest reason why people were hopeful for some other characters, like Isaac or Geno. This is the most Sakurai has listened to us, ever. So when people are disappointed that they don't see the last few requests added, people of course are going to complain. The Grinch Leak gave people hope that this would be it, and thus came down to a crashing end.

I'm not saying for a specific set of people who are gonna cancel their pre-orders or whatever and spite Sakurai because of the Direct, those guys can **** off. But when you have a very mishandled and poorly paced Nintendo Direct dedicated to the upcoming release of Smash Ultimate and combine that with the Grinch Leak, there are valid points to be disappointed. When memes come out of your favorite character getting made fun of while a Piranha Plant gets in, people trying to justify why characters like Geno have no shot at all, it adds more to the fire.

People never got "too hopeful," it was Sakurai himself that led on this trail, and he's done this for the past three Smash games. As much as I love him, this is a bad habit he always does, and it even shows when he had to apologize for showing too many characters and what those characters were in the August Direct.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They look even more different.
(Also apparently Marisa is 10-foot tall)

Sorry man but I'm imagining you looking at 2 identical twins but with different clothes and going "Wow they look VERY different why do people say they're twins?" just because they have different tastes in hair dye

 

[Idon]

Guys, could you stop typing so much.

Reading is hard, okay?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Which FF character do you think would get in Ultimate alongside Cloud?

A lot of FF remasters/portings are coming to Switch... I don't really know, I'm not a FF expert and I don't know who are the most iconic charactetrs from the series aside of, well, Cloud, Sephiroth and the classic class-based characters (black mage, white mage, etc).
Sephiroth would make sense, but maybe they want to promote a different game than FF7, and then they add someone from that game. i don't know, really.

 

[osby]

Okay, but can you blame these people? You really can't.

Every fighter in Smash Bros. history is back.
Oh, and Snake is back, too.
28 hours of music, and a lot of new remixes.
"We used the Fighter Ballot."
Castlevania joins the roster.
Training Mode akin for competitive players.
Lots of mechanics that are great for the longevity of the competitive scene, much more fluid.
Battlefield AND Final Destination Forms of every single stage.
Ridley and King K. Rool.
An ACTUAL Adventure Mode.
The Menu UI vastly improved from the last Smash.

I can go on and on, but I can guarantee you that just simply "Ridley and King K. Rool" was the biggest reason why people were hopeful for some other characters, like Isaac or Geno. This is the most Sakurai has listened to us, ever. So when people are disappointed that they don't see the last few requests added, people of course are going to complain. The Grinch Leak gave people hope that this would be it, and thus came down to a crashing end.

I'm not saying for a specific set of people who are gonna cancel their pre-orders or whatever and spite Sakurai because of the Direct, those guys can **** off. But when you have a very mishandled and poorly paced Nintendo Direct dedicated to the upcoming release of Smash Ultimate and combine that with the Grinch Leak, there are valid points to be disappointed. When memes come out of your favorite character getting made fun of while a Piranha Plant gets in, people trying to justify why characters like Geno have no shot at all, it adds more to the fire.

People never got "too hopeful," it was Sakurai himself that led on this trail, and he's done this for the past three Smash games. As much as I love him, this is a bad habit he always does, and it even shows when he had to apologize for showing too many characters and what those characters were in the August Direct.

"past three Smash games" Not that there's anything wrong with being disappointed but it seems like people never learn.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Then I began to think of Sora's chances in Smash. that led to a rabbit hole of me exploring Square's financial pattern's, character patterns' cross promotion patterns, character history, character development, company history. and so on.

Going back to this point that you completely skipped over, can you describe:

• How you conducted your research/where you looked (including sources would be great as well)
• Any interesting trends or correlations you found
• Who you personally believe the Square Enix rep will be

I'm actually very interested in what you have to say, and I might try to do some research of my own as well.

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of FF remasters/portings are coming to Switch... I don't really know, I'm not a FF expert and I don't know who are the most iconic charactetrs from the series aside of, well, Cloud, Sephiroth and the classic class-based characters (black mage, white mage, etc).
Sephiroth would make sense, but maybe they want to promote a different game than FF7, and then they add someone from that game. i don't know, really.

I personally think a Dragon Quest character is likely.

But the main characters I want for DLC are Ryu Hayabusa, Dante, and Doomguy.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, but can you blame these people? You really can't.

Every fighter in Smash Bros. history is back.
Oh, and Snake is back, too.
28 hours of music, and a lot of new remixes.
"We used the Fighter Ballot."
Castlevania joins the roster.
Training Mode akin for competitive players.
Lots of mechanics that are great for the longevity of the competitive scene, much more fluid.
Battlefield AND Final Destination Forms of every single stage.
Ridley and King K. Rool.
An ACTUAL Adventure Mode.
The Menu UI vastly improved from the last Smash.

I can go on and on, but I can guarantee you that just simply "Ridley and King K. Rool" was the biggest reason why people were hopeful for some other characters, like Isaac or Geno. This is the most Sakurai has listened to us, ever. So when people are disappointed that they don't see the last few requests added, people of course are going to complain. The Grinch Leak gave people hope that this would be it, and thus came down to a crashing end.

I'm not saying for a specific set of people who are gonna cancel their pre-orders or whatever and spite Sakurai because of the Direct, those guys can **** off. But when you have a very mishandled and poorly paced Nintendo Direct dedicated to the upcoming release of Smash Ultimate and combine that with the Grinch Leak, there are valid points to be disappointed. When memes come out of your favorite character getting made fun of while a Piranha Plant gets in, people trying to justify why characters like Geno have no shot at all, it adds more to the fire.

People never got "too hopeful," it was Sakurai himself that led on this trail, and he's done this for the past three Smash games. As much as I love him, this is a bad habit he always does, and it even shows when he had to apologize for showing too many characters and what those characters were in the August Direct.

If they had put Ken and Incineroar at the start of the August Direct and saved Simon and Richter for the final one, people would have liked it way more.
The content we got isn't bad. The pacing and the way at which it was revealed was.

 

[osby]

Sorry man but I'm imagining you looking at 2 identical twins but with different clothes and going "Wow they look VERY different why do people say they're twins?" just because they have different tastes in hair dye

Tbh, people suck at differentiating identical twins.

 

[KMDP]

Sorry man but I'm imagining you looking at 2 identical twins but with different clothes and going "Wow they look VERY different why do people say they're twins?" just because they have different tastes in hair dye

(jk)

Guys, could you stop typing so much.

Reading is hard, okay?

But Idon, typing walls of text is fun!

 

[Noipoi]

Guys, could you stop typing so much.

Reading is hard, okay?

You should take reading lessons with Pit.

 

[Idon]

Which FF character do you think would get in Ultimate alongside Cloud?

Ramza Beoulve
Terra Branford
Onion Knight
And uhh, I dunno Bartz?
After that uhh Gilgamesh cuz he's funny.

Those guys are cool. Put em in if you want another FF character.

 

[osby]

If they had put Ken and Incineroar at the start of the August Direct and saved Simon and Richter for the final one, people would have liked it way more.
The content we got isn't bad. The pacing at which and the way at which it was revealed was.

But Belmonts were directly linked to a ton of Castlevania content and boss battles, I don't think they could save them for the last direct, that thing was already jammed.

 

[Deleted member]

Ramza Beoulve
Terra Branford
Onion Knight
And uhh, I dunno Gilgamesh or Bartz?

Those guys are cool. Put em in if you want another FF character.

Cecial Harvey too. Don't forget him.

 

[Deleted member]

Ramza Beoulve
Terra Branford
Onion Knight
And uhh, I dunno Gilgamesh or Bartz?

Those guys are cool. Put em in if you want another FF character.

Can't believe you would just ignore Barret like that smh

 

[Bee Card]

If he's smart, he'll already be branching off into other things.

Isaac
Adult Isaac
Matthew

Sounds about right.

No no no, I just want the same three time, just for his revenge for having been the rejected of the family all this ****ing time

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, but can you blame these people? You really can't.

Every fighter in Smash Bros. history is back.
Oh, and Snake is back, too.
28 hours of music, and a lot of new remixes.
"We used the Fighter Ballot."
Castlevania joins the roster.
Training Mode akin for competitive players.
Lots of mechanics that are great for the longevity of the competitive scene, much more fluid.
Battlefield AND Final Destination Forms of every single stage.
Ridley and King K. Rool.
An ACTUAL Adventure Mode.
The Menu UI vastly improved from the last Smash.

I can go on and on, but I can guarantee you that just simply "Ridley and King K. Rool" was the biggest reason why people were hopeful for some other characters, like Isaac or Geno. This is the most Sakurai has listened to us, ever. So when people are disappointed that they don't see the last few requests added, people of course are going to complain. The Grinch Leak gave people hope that this would be it, and thus came down to a crashing end.

I'm not saying for a specific set of people who are gonna cancel their pre-orders or whatever and spite Sakurai because of the Direct, those guys can **** off. But when you have a very mishandled and poorly paced Nintendo Direct dedicated to the upcoming release of Smash Ultimate and combine that with the Grinch Leak, there are valid points to be disappointed. When memes come out of your favorite character getting made fun of while a Piranha Plant gets in, people trying to justify why characters like Geno have no shot at all, it adds more to the fire.

People never got "too hopeful," it was Sakurai himself that led on this trail, and he's done this for the past three Smash games. As much as I love him, this is a bad habit he always does, and it even shows when he had to apologize for showing too many characters and what those characters were in the August Direct.

I mean, Chrom getting in because of the ballot alongside some implications he was added last minute kind of says "Old fans aren't the only people who matter"

 

[Deleted member]

"past three Smash games" Not that there's anything wrong with being disappointed but it seems like people never learn.

It's something we as Smash fans AND Sakurai himself has to learn. This is no one-way street.

If they had put Ken and Incineroar at the start of the August Direct and saved Simon and Richter for the final one, people would have liked it way more.
The content we got isn't bad. The pacing and the way at which it was revealed was.

EXACTLY. And yet some people will even try to justify "oh, this is Sakurai, he always has anti-climatic finales".
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you do too, buddy.

It's something that has not been fixed where it should have back in Smash 4, not including the DLC cycle. And look where it got us now?

 

[Idon]

Can't believe you would just ignore Barret like that smh

I'll put him on my list as soon as FF7 Remake comes out.

 

[Dee Dude]

People keep saying Kencineroar’s trailer should been before K.Rool/Simon’s trailer but here’s the problem...

K.Rool was in Kencineroar’s trailer.

Also, I wish people would quit this hive mind thinking hardcore fans only care about 80s/90s/2000s characters.

I wanted Spring-Man for crying out loud.

 

[Diem]

Sora was one of my predictions back after E3, and I don't even know or care much about Kingdom Hearts outside of reading the first two volumes of the manga a decade ago. He's probably the biggest Square Enix character next to Cloud, and the Kingdom Hearts fanbase has remained pretty strong for over a decade, even in spite of the third game taking so long. However, after a month or so of reading the room and seeing more support for characters I'd never heard of, like Ashley and Isaac (my only knowledge of them was from previous Smash appearances with no context), and surprisingly little discussion about Sora, I adjusted my expectations. So it's weird to see everyone talking about him now when no one was talking about him 5 months ago.

That said, I'm not counting Geno out of the running. Sakurai has known the demand for over a decade, and so does Square Enix. I'd say it's a coin toss between the two of them. Will it be the more relevant and blockbuster Sora, or the more fan-pleasing and surprising Geno? Who knows what will happen.

We know that the characters are locked in, so now we just play the waiting game. What's interesting is that Nintendo had a list of characters, which means that any licensing issues had to have been negotiated in advance. That means Nintendo's already sat at the table with Square Enix, Microsoft, and whatever other third parties we believe might get content, and presented Sakurai with the possibilities from those negotiations.

So out of the Microsoft meeting, Nintendo might come out with opportunities for Banjo & Kazooie, Master Chief, or, I guess since everyone keeps thinking it makes sense, Steve, and Sakurai has to pick just one of them. Or with Square Enix, there's Sora, Geno, or, I dunno, 2B. All of these characters would be successful and make people go crazy, but only one of any three can be chosen.

I can't say I envy the man. That's a lot of pressure. But that's what happens when you're a creative lead on a project like this. You have to make the hard choices.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

People keep saying Kencineroar’s trailer should been before K.Rool/Simon’s trailer but here’s the problem...

K.Rool was in Kencineroar’s trailer.

tHEn pUt iT B4 RIDleY

The trailer release schedule was perfectly fine.

 

[Deleted member]

But Belmonts were directly linked to a ton of Castlevania content and boss battles, I don't think they could save them for the last direct, that thing was already jammed.

The Castlevania content only took up 6 and a half minutes, they could have fit it in if they trimmed some of the fat such as the lengthy Spirits gameplay snippets and the options.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys, tell me how likely you think each of these characters are:
Mipha
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Gen 8 Pokemon
Elma
Eldegurard
Ryu Hayabusa
Dante
Erdrick
Sora
Doomguy
Steve
Kataliana

 

[KMDP]

Ramza Beoulve
Terra Branford
Onion Knight
And uhh, I dunno Gilgamesh or Bartz?

Those guys are cool. Put em in if you want another FF character.

"Ramza Beoulve"

Ramza has actually never appeared on Nintendo consoles.

Might I suggest Marche instead? Oh, wait, nobody likes Marche because everyone hates the moral FFTA has to teach.

Oh, well.

Looks like Tifa is the only option...

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I think he's acting defensive because people are spamming him with their wants, not because he's not confident in DLC line-up.

EDIT: read=it says more about the fanbase than DLC

Yeah, but then it should at least tell you to lower your expectations when it comes to those fan favorite characters that keep getting spammed, like Geno and Banjo. In response to those popular fan requests, he's saying that the DLC is out of his hands (to an extent), he is preemptively assigning responsibility to another party. Honestly I would like to have hope but there were a lot of statements we underplayed before (103 stages etc), so I don't think it's wise to underplay anything anymore.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

EXACTLY. And yet some people will even try to justify "oh, this is Sakurai, he always has anti-climatic finales".
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you do too, buddy.

Yo calm down you didn't have to do it to 'em

 

[StrawHatX]

People keep saying Kencineroar’s trailer should been before K.Rool/Simon’s trailer but here’s the problem...

K.Rool was in Kencineroar’s trailer.

I think people are saying it would have been better if they planned to show K. Rool last. If they had planned that then obviously he wouldn’t have been in Kencineroar trailer.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Looks like Tifa is the only option...

I see no problem with this.

 

[Deleted member]

People keep saying Kencineroar’s trailer should been before K.Rool/Simon’s trailer but here’s the problem...

K.Rool was in Kencineroar’s trailer.

**** I completely forgot about that.
Guess I bamboozled myself.

 

[NineS]

During Nintendo's Japanese livestream, one of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks was shown off. It was referencing offensive depiction of Native Americans.

We reached out for Nintendo for an statement. The feather will be removed from Mr. Game & Watch's attack. pic.twitter.com/dOwNqjrV8J

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 7, 2018

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So out of the Microsoft meeting, Nintendo might come out with opportunities for Banjo & Kazooie, Master Chief, or, I guess since everyone keeps thinking it makes sense, Steve, and Sakurai has to pick just one of them. Or with Square Enix, there's Sora, Geno, or, I dunno, 2B. All of these characters would be successful and make people go crazy, but only one of any three can be chosen.

I can't say I envy the man. That's a lot of pressure. But that's what happens when you're a creative lead on a project like this. You have to make the hard choices.

Really makes you think about this statement. While said in regards to cutting characters, it's a similar sentiment. Every character has fans, but only five fanbases can be satisfied.

 

[Deleted member]

It's something we as Smash fans AND Sakurai himself has to learn. This is no one-way street.



EXACTLY. And yet some people will even try to justify "oh, this is Sakurai, he always has anti-climatic finales".
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you do too, buddy.

Damn. Why'd you to it to em?

 

[N3ON]

Sora was one of my predictions back after E3, and I don't even know or care much about Kingdom Hearts outside of reading the first two volumes of the manga a decade ago. He's probably the biggest Square Enix character next to Cloud, and the Kingdom Hearts fanbase has remained pretty strong for over a decade, even in spite of the third game taking so long. However, after a month or so of reading the room and seeing more support for characters I'd never heard of, like Ashley and Isaac (my only knowledge of them was from previous Smash appearances with no context), and surprisingly little discussion about Sora, I adjusted my expectations. So it's weird to see everyone talking about him now when no one was talking about him 5 months ago.

That said, I'm not counting Geno out of the running. Sakurai has known the demand for over a decade, and so does Square Enix. I'd say it's a coin toss between the two of them. Will it be the more relevant and blockbuster Sora, or the more fan-pleasing and surprising Geno? Who knows what will happen.

We know that the characters are locked in, so now we just play the waiting game. What's interesting is that Nintendo had a list of characters, which means that any licensing issues had to have been negotiated in advance. That means Nintendo's already sat at the table with Square Enix, Microsoft, and whatever other third parties we believe might get content, and presented Sakurai with the possibilities from those negotiations.

So out of the Microsoft meeting, Nintendo might come out with opportunities for Banjo & Kazooie, Master Chief, or, I guess since everyone keeps thinking it makes sense, Steve, and Sakurai has to pick just one of them. Or with Square Enix, there's Sora, Geno, or, I dunno, 2B. All of these characters would be successful and make people go crazy, but only one of any three can be chosen.

I can't say I envy the man. That's a lot of pressure. But that's what happens when you're a creative lead on a project like this. You have to make the hard choices.

Well for the longest time Sora was thought as implausible by most, due to the Disney factor. And who knows, that still might be the case. I think without Spawn Wave, he still probably wouldn't see that much conversation surrounding him.

 

[Dee Dude]

...Also, is it weird that I’m hardcore when it comes to character request yet I’m casual when it comes to gameplay?

 

[Noipoi]

During Nintendo's Japanese livestream, one of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks was shown off. It was referencing offensive depiction of Native Americans.

We reached out for Nintendo for an statement. The feather will be removed from Mr. Game & Watch's attack. pic.twitter.com/dOwNqjrV8J

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 7, 2018

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

Huh, well I guess that's that.

I'm sure they didn't mean any wrong by it, but I guess this way no one else'll get upset. It's for the best, I think.

 

[NintendoKnight]

During Nintendo's Japanese livestream, one of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks was shown off. It was referencing offensive depiction of Native Americans.

We reached out for Nintendo for an statement. The feather will be removed from Mr. Game & Watch's attack. pic.twitter.com/dOwNqjrV8J

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 7, 2018

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

Wait, which attack was it?

 

[Idon]

"Ramza Beoulve"

Ramza has actually never appeared on Nintendo consoles.

Might I suggest Marche instead? Oh, wait, nobody likes Marche because everyone hates the moral FFTA has to teach.

Oh, well.

Looks like Tifa is the only option...

Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about REALISTIC CHOICES.

IN THAT CASE, GIVE ME UHHHH, NOCTIS FROM FF15 WITH ARDYN ECHO.
BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTS THAT.

 

[WiiRool]

I wonder if "Nintendo deciding the DLC characters" was some sort of Smash Ballot for Nintendo employees.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Looks like Tifa is the only option...

yey.

During Nintendo's Japanese livestream, one of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks was shown off. It was referencing offensive depiction of Native Americans.

We reached out for Nintendo for an statement. The feather will be removed from Mr. Game & Watch's attack. pic.twitter.com/dOwNqjrV8J

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 7, 2018

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

Well, good on Sakurai for actually taking it out, at least.