Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Calane]

This is a completely fair argument. I would say that Dragon Quest is the next most likely series after Kingdom Hearts. I specifically like your point about Dragon Quest gaining exposure through Smash because it is true: Dragon Quest isn't popular in the West, and it being in Smash Bros. could be the boost it needs.

HOWEVER

Because of this, adding a Dragon Quest character is inherently risky due to this. Square Enix is concerned about the bottom line: what's going to make the most money and promote their company the most. It lines up nearly perfectly for Sora.

• Has a large-enough fanbase that advocates for his inclusion in Smash Bros - He'd make money
• Kingdom Hearts has notoriety both as a Disney series (Disney fans are crazy) and as one of the oddest crossovers in gaming history in the wider fanbase. Additionally, the series has been around long enough to the point where most gamers have either played a Kingdom Hearts game (likely the spinoffs on DS) or knows about it.
  • Sora is seen as near impossible by many people due to his association with Disney, so it would blow most people's minds if he got in
• Most importantly, Kingdom Hearts 3 is coming out shortly after Sora's supposed announcement at the VGAs. This is a HUGE cross-promotion opportunity, both for Smash and Kingdom Hearts 3. I can practically smell the corporate synergy from my computer screen. This is the last chance for Square Enix to show off Kingdom Hearts 3 and related content, and would be the perfect start to the Smash DLC cycle.

Kingdom Hearts has the least risk and the most reward attached to its inclusion in Smash Bros.

I agree with this, but at the same time, I believe SE would see it as worth the risk to include DQ instead. The logic goes like this:

- Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to sell with or without Smash. It already has a huge following in the west, and it's practically guaranteed to be a success. DQ XI S, however, is not (at least in the west). What better way to drum up interest in the franchise than to include it in Smash? It may seem like a risky move now, but that's only if you're thinking short-term. DQ's inclusion in Smash could massively increase interest in the series, thus leading to more sales for DQ XI S, thus getting DQ into more people's hands and possibly creating more fans in the west. An increasing fanbase could snowball from there, which could subsequently lead to more successful DQ releases in the future.

It's a risk that could massively pay off for the franchise both now and in the future, while Kingdom Hearts really wouldn't benefit all that much from such a promotion. Basically, this is SE's big chance to really push DQ into the west, and it's a risk I think they'd be wise to act upon. This opportunity will probably never present itself again. If they really want DQ to become bigger in the west, then this is their chance to really get the ball rolling.

Dragon Quest is probably the biggest and most historically important video game series currently not in Smash. It's legendary. It's one of the few game franchises that truly "deserves" a spot due to how influential it is. For how important it is to gaming as a whole. I personally think its legacy is enough to get it in Smash alone, and it's definitely something I think Sakurai would like to represent in the greatest gaming crossover of all time. I believe it'd be a smart idea to use the VGAs to not only highlight the franchise, but also bring attention to DQ XI being a great game all while boosting the series' name further with a Smash DLC announcement. It'd have people everywhere talking about Dragon Quest, and I'm sure that's something SE would like to happen.

To sum up:
- Kingdom Hearts wouldn't benefit very much from using Smash as cross-promotion. It's already massively popular in the west and doesn't really need such a push to sell KH 3. I believe the sheer hype surrounding the game is sufficient to get newcomers on board as well.

- Dragon Quest being promoted in Smash could probably be the push it needs to finally breakout in the west, thus leading to more successful western releases in the future. There's not much hype or interest surrounding DQ in the west, but it being in Smash could potentially change that.

I think Dragon Quest benefits more from being in Smash (and has done more than enough to deserve it). It's something that I'm sure everyone involved would want to make happen. KH could very well take the spot, but I'll always see it as a huge missed opportunity to increase interest in DQ. Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. I'm not an expert on subjects like this, so please excuse me if I'm not making too much sense.

Whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to be rad. I wish the best of luck to all of you Sora fans, but don't count us DQ fans out just yet.

 

[LetterO]

I just realized none of the event modes or stage builder were confirmed.

I'm scared. Someone hold me.

 

[Deleted member]

And Banjo’s been requested since Melee. He’s definitely the most requested third party from everything I’ve seen.

I forgot about Banjo for a moment. Oops.

Yes Banjo is up there.

 

[Idon]

You guys think if there was enough demand, Sakurai would upgrade an assist trophy in DLC?

I wanna believe.
If sheer willpower was all it took to promote an AT, she would've gotten in ten times over.

But no, it's probably not happening.

 

[Wyoming]

I just realized none of the event modes or stage builder were confirmed.

I'm scared. Someone hold me.

Event Matches are essentially in Spirits now.

Stage Builder, Master Orders, and Homerun Contest are the notable absentees from Smash 4. Might all be gone.

 

[Jakenimbus]

No, unless they make another AT to replace it or it preforms a similar role as the previous character.

Sakurai has gone on record saying that he doesn't view Assist Trophies as anything lesser than the characters on the roster, as they're there as he envisioned them.

Here's the thing, it can happen though, there's nothing saying it can't.
But I extremely doubt the fact it will, especially since it'd scrap any work and content they already put into the game.

I am pretty sure if the character is an assist trophy, then they are not coming into the game as dlc cause it would force Nintendo to fill the assist trophy with an entirely new character and force everyone to update their game which could be hard to do.

 

[Omniomega]

The Squad is ready

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Sakurai really cares about representing characters faithfully and carefully. Moreso than in their home games, occasionally.

He's definitely treating Snake and the Belmonts better than Konami has recently...

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

If Steve truly does make it in instead of Banjo then honestly I don't even know what to think anymore.

It's like the game was so close yet so far away.

 

[MainJPW]

Piranha Plant better bring us Bowser's Castle. It'd be the true savior we need and win back those salty hearts through buttering them up.

I don't like joke characters so I don't like Piranha Plant by extension, but I'd love him if he came with Bowser's castle. That's literally all it takes.

 

[KingofKoopas]

He's definitely treating Snake and the Belmonts better than Konami has recently...

He treated Mega Man better than Capcom did and Capcom straightened up soon after..

 

[Diem]

He's definitely treating Snake and the Belmonts better than Konami has recently...

Exactly.

Not to mention how much care and attention went into Inklings, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Dark Samus, K. Rool, Isabelle, and Incineroar. All the newcomers in this game couldn't be represented better, all things considered.

That's why I'm glad Dark Samus got in for Ultimate rather than Brawl or Smash 4. Her rendition in this game, despite being an Echo Fighter, is so amazing looking, that the wait was definitely worth it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I still don't understand why Bowser's Castle never been a stage. It's just so obvious.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dang, that was a lot of pages to catch up on.

Anyway, I wasn't super hyped, but I really enjoy the character list. Shadow and Isaac being AT'd hurt a lot for me. But that's what it is. I finally got mah Ridley and K. Rool. Piranha Plant is hyping me up, though.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I just realized none of the event modes or stage builder were confirmed.

I'm scared. Someone hold me.

The spirts Mode is sort of like the Event Mode. But yea, I guess Stage Builder is gone...

 

[ExitWound]

But that's the thing though: he isn't a character. He's little more than a blank piece of paper. He's the default skin that you're supposed to overwrite with your own. He has no expressions, he has no voice, he has no personality. You can count all his animations on one hand. If you were to make him a fighter, either you'd have to take a lot of creative license to make him interesting, or you'd have to be faithful to the source material and have him be boring.

Steve is now an iconic character that everybody and their mother recognizes. And they know his name. He isn't the fortnite default skin, and in minecraft canon (yes), Steve is the protagonist.
As for no voice you can make the same argument for R.O.B, G&W, Pac-Man and Mega Man

 

[Will]

Which is why Steve would make no sense because to do him faithfully would limit him severely okay I'm done now

>doesn't explain why

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Wait... But if P-Plant really comes with a stage, that's 6 additional stages to make a grand total of 109?

I actually like the even number better, but I also want that Bowser's Castle...

 

[Mutsukki]

I just realized none of the event modes or stage builder were confirmed.

I'm scared. Someone hold me.

I don't think Event is happening and honestly? I think Spirits replace them very neatly.

HMC and other stuff though are a loss I also mourn...

 

[KingofKoopas]

I still don't understand why Bowser's Castle never been a stage. It's just so obvious.

Smash isnt about obvious.. cept when it comes to amazon leaking stuff by accident cuz theyre inept. If smash was about obvious would we have Piranah plant?

 

[Jakenimbus]

I agree with this, but at the same time, I believe SE would see it as worth the risk to include DQ instead. The logic goes like this:

- Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to sell with or without Smash. It already has a huge following in the west, and it's practically guaranteed to be a success. DQ XI S, however, is not (at least in the west). What better way to drum up interest in the franchise than to include it in Smash? It may seem like a risky move now, but that's only if you're thinking short-term. DQ's inclusion in Smash could massively increase interest in the series, thus leading to more sales for DQ XI S, thus getting DQ into more people's hands and possibly creating more fans in the west. An increasing fanbase could snowball from there, which could subsequently lead to more successful DQ releases in the future.

It's a risk that could massively pay off for the franchise both now and in the future, while Kingdom Hearts really wouldn't benefit all that much from such a promotion. Basically, this is SE's big chance to really push DQ into the west, and it's a risk I think they'd be wise to act upon. This opportunity will probably never present itself again. If they really want DQ to become bigger in the west, then this is their chance to really get the ball rolling.

Dragon Quest is probably the biggest and most historically important video game series currently not in Smash. It's legendary. It's one of the few game franchises that truly "deserves" a spot due to how influential it is. For how important it is to gaming as a whole. I personally think its legacy is enough to get it in Smash alone, and it's definitely something I think Sakurai would like to represent in the greatest gaming crossover of all time. I believe it'd be a smart idea to use the VGAs to not only highlight the franchise, but also bring attention to DQ XI being a great game all while boosting the series' name further with a Smash DLC announcement. It'd have people everywhere talking about Dragon Quest, and I'm sure that's something SE would like to happen.

To sum up:
- Kingdom Hearts wouldn't benefit very much from using Smash as cross-promotion. It's already massively popular in the west and doesn't really need such a push to sell KH 3. I believe the sheer hype surrounding the game is sufficient to get newcomers on board as well.

- Dragon Quest being promoted in Smash could probably be the push it needs to finally breakout in the west, thus leading to more successful western releases in the future. There's not much hype or interest surrounding DQ in the west, but it being in Smash could potentially change that.

I think Dragon Quest benefits more from being in Smash (and has done more than enough to deserve it). It's something that I'm sure everyone involved would want to make happen. KH could very well take the spot, but I'll always see it as a huge missed opportunity to increase interest in DQ. Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. I'm not an expert on subjects like this, so please excuse me if I'm not making too much sense.

View attachment 174919

Whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to be rad. I wish the best of luck to all of you Sora fans, but don't count us DQ fans out just yet.

But then again, we have to take into account that this is dlc content. While DQ may be a better choice for square, it isn’t a good one for Nintendo, especially as a DlC character. Because DLC charcters are an extension of the game and require you to spend extra money, you need something good to sell the dlc to them. You said so yourself that DQ isn’t popular in the west so therefore it wouldn’t sell as much dlc as Sora would. Besides, the extra push for kingdom hearts 3 from Sora in smash directly benifits Square and will still continue to proden kingdom hearts to a younger audience that was not around when the first kingdom hearts was made. To some it up, while DQ rep may be better for Square, Sora is better for Nintendo and also still helps square out in a big way.

 

[Dyamanttine]

I agree with this, but at the same time, I believe SE would see it as worth the risk to include DQ instead. The logic goes like this:

- Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to sell with or without Smash. It already has a huge following in the west, and it's practically guaranteed to be a success. DQ XI S, however, is not (at least in the west). What better way to drum up interest in the franchise than to include it in Smash? It may seem like a risky move now, but that's only if you're thinking short-term. DQ's inclusion in Smash could massively increase interest in the series, thus leading to more sales for DQ XI S, thus getting DQ into more people's hands and possibly creating more fans in the west. An increasing fanbase could snowball from there, which could subsequently lead to more successful DQ releases in the future.

It's a risk that could massively pay off for the franchise both now and in the future, while Kingdom Hearts really wouldn't benefit all that much from such a promotion. Basically, this is SE's big chance to really push DQ into the west, and it's a risk I think they'd be wise to act upon. This opportunity will probably never present itself again. If they really want DQ to become bigger in the west, then this is their chance to really get the ball rolling.

Dragon Quest is probably the biggest and most historically important video game series currently not in Smash. It's legendary. It's one of the few game franchises that truly "deserves" a spot due to how influential it is. For how important it is to gaming as a whole. I personally think its legacy is enough to get it in Smash alone, and it's definitely something I think Sakurai would like to represent in the greatest gaming crossover of all time. I believe it'd be a smart idea to use the VGAs to not only highlight the franchise, but also bring attention to DQ XI being a great game all while boosting the series' name further with a Smash DLC announcement. It'd have people everywhere talking about Dragon Quest, and I'm sure that's something SE would like to happen.

To sum up:
- Kingdom Hearts wouldn't benefit very much from using Smash as cross-promotion. It's already massively popular in the west and doesn't really need such a push to sell KH 3. I believe the sheer hype surrounding the game is sufficient to get newcomers on board as well.

- Dragon Quest being promoted in Smash could probably be the push it needs to finally breakout in the west, thus leading to more successful western releases in the future. There's not much hype or interest surrounding DQ in the west, but it being in Smash could potentially change that.

I think Dragon Quest benefits more from being in Smash (and has done more than enough to deserve it). It's something that I'm sure everyone involved would want to make happen. KH could very well take the spot, but I'll always see it as a huge missed opportunity to increase interest in DQ. Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. I'm not an expert on subjects like this, so please excuse me if I'm not making too much sense.

View attachment 174919

Whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to be rad. I wish the best of luck to all of you Sora fans, but don't count us DQ fans out just yet.

Surely having a Dragon Quest rep would certainly help the franchise grow over the west, but i think that Nintendo would benefit more with Sora since the Kingdom Hearts series is more well known overall

 

[Will]

Wait... But if P-Plant really comes with a stage, that's 6 additional stages to make a grand total of 109?

I actually like the even number better, but I also want that Bowser's Castle...

Smash 4 has had free stages done before (Duck Hunt), so it could be possible for it to even out again.

 

[Shroob]

Wait... But if P-Plant really comes with a stage, that's 6 additional stages to make a grand total of 109?

I actually like the even number better, but I also want that Bowser's Castle...

Correct. There are 6 empty spots on the Stage select screen.

 

[N3ON]

Maybe we're finally getting Bowser's Castle.

i think that the official site stated that it is coming with a stage anyways....



bowser castle anyone????

Alright Piranha Plant. If you come with Bowser's Castle, you'll have won, and I'll download you.

 

[Blargg888]

WOAH! Doc has a new Back Throw!

That's awesome! He just HURLS them away.

No need for spinning, just get outta here!

 

[SvartWolf]

I have 0 problem with Minecraft. I bought the game over 7 years ago back when it was still in beta (like 1.1.2 or something), before it blew up to the degree that it has. It's a fantastic game that deserves all the popularity it gets.

But Vergeben's words were "Minecraft content," not Steve, but everyone jumped to that conclusion, despite Steve making no sense. I've tried to point out why it doesn't make any sense, but people are still saying it anyways. So I'm just going to ignore it from here-on-out.


But that's the thing though: he isn't a character. He's little more than a blank piece of paper. He's the default skin that you're supposed to overwrite with your own. He has no expressions, he has no voice, he has no personality. You can count all his animations on one hand. If you were to make him a fighter, either you'd have to take a lot of creative license to make him interesting, or you'd have to be faithful to the source material and have him be boring.

The appeal of Minecraft is the world and how you interact with it. The environments, the creatures, the gameplay mechanics. Not Steve.

Someone pointed out that a Steve Mii costume would make sense, and I can see and agree to that. But as a playable character, he isn't just unlikely, he actually just doesn't work.

well, i was actually half joking in my response, and witty twisting your words to make you look like you enjoyed the idea, but anyways. is steve guaranteed ad DLC? who the ****s know, if vergeben is sure of something he says it, and so far, he isn't sure about how minecraft would be in.

but If they want to put steve on minecraft im SURE that either sakurai is going to make it work, or not put him at all. so i don't get this feeling that sakurai is going to put minecraft into teh game, and he would look like a boring turd and ruin the game. thats not gonna happen.

i mean....

he certainly loves a good challenge.

 

[Will]

Alright Piranha Plant. If you come with Bowser's Castle, you'll have won, and I'll download you.

But dude, it's free... Why wouldn't you take it without it?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Correct. There are 6 empty spots on the Stage select screen.

I thought it was 5. Did it change or something or did we miss something?

Or was everyone assuming we'd get that Training Stage as an assumed spot?

 

[FalcoXP]

Just wanted to thanks my girlfriend for the drawing that is showing in the place of my avatar.

Falco main forever!

 

[NextChannelGames]

I’m a bit surprised we didn’t get another Echo Fighter. We have 7 of them but sad it’s not 8 to fit in for 8-Player Smash.

Not huge deal. But with the DLC I think we all should be careful with hoping for characters after that Grinch because after the amazing choice of Paranha Plant, I think we our really getting too get real awesome surprises now.

I want more Surprises like today which was great!

 

[Shroob]

I thought it was. Did it change or something or did we miss something?

Or was everyone assuming we'd get that Training Stage as an assumed spot?

People thought we had 108 stages and a DLC button.


Now we know we have 6 DLC stages and 6 empty spots.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Today before their deaths, and have proven that they care for the ones they love and are willing to protect no matter what...and was only out for himself

 

[Will]

Today before their deaths, and have proven that they care for the ones they love and are willing to protect no matter what...and was only out for himself

*insert theory that shulk used monado speed on kirby because of some dr. strange infinity war shenanigans*

 

[ChronoKatie]

If the Square DLC rep is Dragon Quest, then that's exactly why I feel it would not be seen at the VGA's. Dragon Quest is popular here, sure, but that is the number 1 most obvious choice ever for more of a Japan event. Dragon Quest is like a literal daily ritual there.

 

[KingofKoopas]

well, i was actually half joking in my response, and witty twisting your words to make you look like you enjoyed the idea, but anyways. is steve guaranteed ad DLC? who the ****s know, if vergeben is sure of something he says it, and so far, he isn't sure about how minecraft would be in.

but If they want to put steve on minecraft im SURE that either sakurai is going to make it work, or not put him at all. so i don't get this feeling that sakurai is going to put minecraft into teh game, and he would look like a boring turd and ruin the game. thats not gonna happen.

i mean....

he certainly loves a good challenge.

I dunno about challenge, Pacman was designed on Pac Man World and his moves were pretty logically pacman. And Duck Hunt was a Salute to the NES Zapper, Not hard to do. Anything can be a fighter and today we were proved that definitvely.. That said it makes the fact some characters are in Assist Trophy hell still even sadder cuz if ANY character can be made a fighter.. Then its a matter of not wanting rather than not knowing.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

*insert theory that shulk used monado speed on kirby*

not cool Shulk

 

[Shroob]

well, i was actually half joking in my response, and witty twisting your words to make you look like you enjoyed the idea, but anyways. is steve guaranteed ad DLC? who the ****s know, if vergeben is sure of something he says it, and so far, he isn't sure about how minecraft would be in.

but If they want to put steve on minecraft im SURE that either sakurai is going to make it work, or not put him at all. so i don't get this feeling that sakurai is going to put minecraft into teh game, and he would look like a boring turd and ruin the game. thats not gonna happen.

i mean....

he certainly loves a good challenge.

Sakurai giving a goddamn Piranha Plant a moveset convinced me he count think of a moveset for a single pixel.

 

[Diem]

Steve is now an iconic character that everybody and their mother recognizes. And they know his name. He isn't the fortnite default skin, and in minecraft canon (yes), Steve is the protagonist.

But he has no personality or expression or voice. That's my point. He's recognizable, but he's not fleshed out. There's not a single thing he does that conveys any amount of individuality. Look at all the characters in Ultimate. All of their animations and expressions and sounds convey large amounts of personality, including the ones that don't have faces. Steve is incapable of doing any of that. He can swing his arm and grunt. That's it.

Unless you go the Story Mode route and give him creepy eyes and a mouth, but then that wouldn't be Steve. You might as well get Jesse or whoever at that point instead.

What would his moveset be, anyways? Sword, bow, bucket...?

>doesn't explain why
View attachment 174935

Uh, I've already explained it multiple times today and in the past, including right above.

well, i was actually half joking in my response, and witty twisting your words to make you look like you enjoyed the idea, but anyways. is steve guaranteed ad DLC? who the ****s know, if vergeben is sure of something he says it, and so far, he isn't sure about how minecraft would be in.

but If they want to put steve on minecraft im SURE that either sakurai is going to make it work, or not put him at all. so i don't get this feeling that sakurai is going to put minecraft into teh game, and he would look like a boring turd and ruin the game. thats not gonna happen.

i mean....

he certainly loves a good challenge.

Indeed, that's the only way I see it happening. Sakurai enjoys challenging himself.

But I just don't think there's enough to draw from to make Steve work. Pac-Man and Piranha Plant had dozens of appearances to work from. Duck Hunt brought in all the other Zapper games. Steve only has Minecraft, and doesn't have a lot there for him.

 

[Pazzo.]

Today is the day we learned never to trust blurry photos.

And that a Plant is in Smash.

A Plant.

...

And I love it.