Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Stage 1: Denial

Don't do this to me

 

[Idon]

Is this because I got Golden Sun a few days ago? Vergie why

Fate is a cruel mistress.

 

[Tinarg]

I'm kinda dreading the direct at this point. The community is gonna be up in arms if these end up being true. Smash Ultimate is already a stellar game and I'm worried people will be bitter over stuff like this by launch.

 

[Luigi The President]

Is it possible considering the crap Verge got on GameFaqs he's lying and said that out of spite?

Unlikely but could be a possibility...

You know, I wouldn't be shocked. Every other Smash post of his is "Y'ALL ARE DAMN RUDE TO ME" in essence.
Verg Strikes Back

 

[Nekoo]

I keep seeing this but literally nobody has proved this insiders credibility

I mean. You can type for yourself ZhugeEX.
He's a legit Analyst and Investor Analyst for Japan/China part of the game market.

Like, even 4chan believe him and don't doubt him. Which means a lot.

He's not one to usually leak things. But when he does. He's 100% right.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You know, I wouldn't be shocked. Every other Smash post of his is "Y'ALL ARE DAMN RUDE TO ME" in essence.
Verg Strikes Back

Just imagine if that does happen.

The internet will explode...From shock.

 

[FalconFire93]

if this is lie,

Can I execute Verge on the spot? Because saying those three words can lead to a greatest ****storm of all before Final Smash Direct hits.

You have my axe.

 

[Darkmoone1]

The most reasonable thing to do at this point is to shut out all of the insiders and leak analysis. They've played their part, but Sakurais direct in less than 48 hours will give us most, if not all the answers we need.

And so I will depart until after the direct, so we can discuss about what's in the game rather than worry what may or may not be in it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So both Isaac and Geno are being rumored to be ATs now? Sorry for their fans if this turns out true. If its vetted from Vergebens main sources then GG

Verg said nothing about Geno

 

[Shroob]

"Gee, why hasn't Verg said anything lately? Verg, talk damnit!"

"Isaac's an assist lolk"

"SHUT UP!"




Well, you asked for him to talk again.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm kinda dreading the direct at this point. The community is gonna be up in arms if these end up being true. Smash Ultimate is already a stellar game and I'm worried people will be bitter over stuff like this by launch.

It's going to happen regardless. This community lives and breathes salt.

I've already accepted that none of who I want to see in Smash will happen. It's better that way. I learned from August.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean. You can type for yourself ZhugeEX.
He's a legit Analyst and Investor Analyst for Japan/China part of the game market.

Like, even 4chan believe him and don't doubt him. Which means a lot.

He's not one to usually leak things. But when he does. He's 100% right.

...oh **** it's THAT ZhugeEX?

Pack it up boys.

It's done. The dream is dead.

 

[HesIn]

So, Skull Kid is pretty up there in the ranks then. I haven't heard Geno being deconfirmed, but I've heard absolutely zero about Skull Kid being out and he's still missing from the game.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77149243/911491767

Pack it up, Verg just said Isaac is assist

Didn’t Mystic say Isaac was 100% playable?

Either one of them is full of it (probably Mystic, why do we believe him again?), or it’s sources getting mixed info to weed out leakers.

First it was all these “insiders” vs the Grinch Leak, now it’s the Grinch Leak vs insiders vs other insiders vs other insiders. I’m just staying with the Grinch Leak being real as of now, but really wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it’s not.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

...oh **** it's THAT ZhugeEX?

Pack it up boys.

It's done. The dream is dead.

What. **** no, I Ain't giving up ****. You aren't ruining **** for me, Zhuge you ************.

 

[Roberk]

Oye, if Isaac is an AT then that is DEFINITELY a character that you deconfirm right away to avoid false excitement (Ashley). Not cool, Sakurai

This ^.

Lyn, Takamaru, Waluigi, etc. All popular Assist Trophies who were also highly speculated to be newcomers were swiftly deconfirmed at E3. The same thing with Skull Kid in Smash 4, he got a blog post early on that was basically "not a fighter, just an AT. Don't get your hopes up this time."

Isaac as an AT just now after all the hype would truly suck for his fans.

 

[Luigi The President]

I am sad to say that when Verge AND Zhuge come out and say Isaac is an AT I 100% believe they're right.

That's so...that's ****ed, man.

 

[Fenriraga]

So we have two credible leakers saying two completely different things about Issac?

Fun.

This is the opposite of fun.

 

[Confirmation]

O

Ok well maybe they had no plans for him as DLC and just figured assist is better than no Isaac at all.

But then why skip him in Smash 4? Why rile people up and give them hope? If it was a Midna situation at least they've been consistent.

 

[perfectchaos83]

This. He's gotten some things right before, but right now verge is acting really full of himself. Don't lose hope, Isaac fans! This guy doesn't know what he's talking about anymore.

You seem new to Verge. As somebody who has been interacting with the dude for over a Year, he's always been full of himself.

 

[Will]

Noipoi i hope you're happy you sick monster

Watch the thursday direct prove every "insider" wrong

I'll be back to celebrate

Man and I thought I had an ego.

 

[Dixie Kong]

Your main’s franchise gets its own smash bros styled game with 12 fighters. Who would be in?

Mario Franchise:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Daisy
Wario
Waluigi
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Rosalina
Yoshi
Geno

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
Cranky Kong
Lanky Kong
Tiny Kong
Chunky Kong
Banjo Kazooie
Gruntilda
Mumbo
Conker

Yeah, so I cheated.

 

[MrHomelessHobo]

Completely random guess here: The Smash Direct is going to have more dislikes than likes on YouTube.

probs right

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I feel like a lot of fans are gonna turn against Nintendo and Sakurai after the direct.... idk why but i just feel it...

 

[Paperchampion23]

Doubt it. Just like I doubt the insiders are lying. Verg has already worked hard to make sure he is sure of information before releasing it now. After being burned a lot, he's matured and been more careful. Not to say he's highly mature(jeez, the guy can be a jerk), but still.

It's more likely if anything, they'd be given bad information or trust the wrong people. Cause that happens to pretty much all leakers.

I doubted the mural leak was real for a while now, and it has inconsistencies that cannot actually be shrugged away by "compression issues". It's using a blatantly different background from all the other murals. There's no questioning that. If it's real, they made a new background just this one time. If it's fake, it just means a troll worked hard to make a convincing leak. Which while it's not super hard for many people to do, technically speaking, it still did a good job at convincing others.

I honestly think Verg's lying in spite of gamefaqs, who've hung him out to dry after he leaked stuff for everyone.

I mean, look at the ****ing gif he posted with the comment in the thread. I feel like he's just being a **** on purpose at this point

 

[Starbound]

"Gee, why hasn't Verg said anything lately? Verg, talk damnit!"

"Isaac's an assist lolk"

"SHUT UP!"




Well, you asked for him to talk again.

Man this has been the theme of this week.

"Hey <insert insider here> is the Grinch leak real?"

"No lolk"

"SHUT UP"

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Jesus man just let them be upset and sad
I don't get why we need to WALLOW IN THE SALT of people who are rightfully upset their favorite character got screwed over out of yet another Smash appearance

let them be upset

"Can i execute Verge?"
"Sakurai is disrespectful

hm

 

[Potato_]

So, Skull Kid is pretty up there in the ranks then. I haven't heard Geno being deconfirmed, but I've heard absolutely zero about Skull Kid being out and he's still missing from the game.

This is what I'm thinking too, but as insanely happy as he would make me I'm trying to be hesitant.

Entirely possible we get Dixie as a unique. Or Bandana Dee (which would also be amazing).

 

[Ura]

I'm not going to hate the messenger. If what Vergie says is true then good on him for at least bracing ourselves for that if it does happen.

But regardless i'm going to be pissed that Isaac gets the AT treatment. Let alone the constant teasing only to do the character dirty like this.

 

[lightdrago]

"Gee, why hasn't Verg said anything lately? Verg, talk damnit!"

"Isaac's an assist lolk"

"SHUT UP!"




Well, you asked for him to talk again.

“But he didn’t say what I wanted so IT. DOESN’T. COUNT.”

 

[ZephyrZ]

Of all days for Verg to come around and stir up drama with his charming personality yet again, it has to be right after we get our direct announcement. I mean even if it turns out to be true I get the feeling he made that post because he was sick of hearing about the Grinch leak and wanted to spite everyone who believed it, hence the totally necessary microphone drop gif.

Man this past week has been chaotic.

 

[Nekoo]

...oh **** it's THAT ZhugeEX?

Pack it up boys.

It's done. The dream is dead.

Be careful tho.
The only things he said was that "people were finally putting pieces together" in the Speculation thread of ResetEra.

Meaning they're very ****ing close to get it right-

People just made that connection to the post that Starbound is referencing.

 

[monadoboy]

This ^.

Lyn, Takamaru, Waluigi, etc. All popular Assist Trophies who were also highly speculated to be newcomers were swiftly deconfirmed at E3. The same thing with Skull Kid in Smash 4, he got a blog post early on that was basically "not a fighter, just an AT. Don't get your hopes up this time."

Isaac as an AT just now after all the hype would truly suck for his fans.

And that Rathalos picture is too big of a tease for just an AT.

 

[Icedragonadam]

It would suck if Isaac returned in Smash only to be an AT. Isaac fans hope he does turn out to be playable.

Meanwhile I hastily whipped up this meme picture summing up the next 24-36 hours.

 

[Ignoritus]

Why is it that leakers are always "100% wrong and can't be trusted", yet we put full blind faith in a blurry 4chan leak that happens to have some things going for it? It's amazing.

Because saying "happens to have some things going for it" is a serious understatement. We've pretty much established that this was impossible to do outside of a real shop. Which means either Eric Bricard himself is responsible and apparently chose to slap his own name on a fake leak and then spread it around the internet, or someone else working at one of these places has chosen to use company materials and machinery to produce the leak (something which would doubtlessly be noticed) and then slap someone else's name on it and spread it around the internet.

Both of these are literal crimes. The latter is actually potentially multiple crimes. Crimes which are very easily tied back to the people responsible.

To be fair, if they chose to risk their livelihoods to fake this leak they certainly went all in on making it convincing. Mixing in Grinch materials to prove their access to upcoming promotional material, remaking the entire background (even if their version ended up being flawed), hiding multiple extra wristbands out of shot so that they were only revealed by detailed image analysis. All of this on top of the banner.

And the banner was definitely their pièce de résistance. First they selected new characters. They carefully reviewed recent trademarks to select all characters which had recently gotten trademark renewals, despite several of those characters either being dead or not needing a trademark renewal yet. Then they lovingly handcrafted unique drawings each character. Their details are lost in the blur, but they seem to be very well drawn and all integrate perfectly with the mural. Kazooie interacts with Snake, Mach Rider has a pose that fits perfectly with the flavor of the rest of the mural. They decided to get a bit creative with some of these and take them in directions very few people had considered for the characters, with Isaac using Growth despite not being hugely associated with it (and it being a lucky guess indeed given the Wendy's item leak), the Conductor joining the Chorus Kids, and Geno being drawn at his small doll-size despite most people pinning him being as big as Mario. Of course, to fit these new renders in they would need to move some characters around. But since they knew they'd be under scrutiny they decided they should improve the credibility of the leak by putting a lot of additional effort into the banner. Even though they didn't need to they decided to move almost every character in the banner slightly. Unfortunately this exposed a lot of previously unseen sections of character arts, so they had to draw those in as well. But that would only add to the illusion.

Now that the leak was complete, and miraculously no one caught our leaker printing off the materials he just needed to get it out there. Our leaker meticulously arranged the materials. He wrapped the banner around a mockup for a hanging display, printed on (multiple) wristbands, made some more hanging display mockups to underlay one of the sheets of paper in case anyone looked too close, arranged it all, and voila. He took a quick video and made sure the quality on the mural was blurry and low despite clearly having gone to enough effort it would probably have been safe to show at a higher resolution without being debunked. He then posted it on Snapchat. Now here is where it gets a bit hazy, as I've yet to get a clear consensus on how exactly it was leaked through Snapchat, and I'm personally not familiar with the platform. So let's give the benefit of the doubt to our leaker and say he posted it privately to a friend who then recorded the video and arranged the images, which seems like the most rational route our leaker could have taken. This accomplice, or perhaps our leaker himself, made sure to attempt to blur his name for looking legitimate, but to do so poorly so that his identity and associations with the company would hopefully be found by internet leak-analysts.

From there, the images were disseminated and the rest is history. Now let me ask you, does this sound a bit conspiratorial? Not "completely impossible", but like a bit of a stretch? Because here's where we get to why I'm not taking insiders "word" on this.

Like hey, believe what you want, it's not my job to regulate how hyped people get or to convince people to temper their expectations but I think it's hilarious that people are shrugging folks off just because they say they have information. It's like nobody knows who these people are.

I don't think the insiders are being malicious. Some are being smug and rude, but I don't think there's some grand conspiracy for them to lie to us. But here's what I want to know:

Given the insane conspiratorial bull**** that had to have occurred to produce this leak, tell me why it is more conspiratorial to suggest Nintendo has misled or misinformed you?

I don't not believe the insiders because "they're nintendo shills" or "they're just making stuff up". I don't believe the insiders because it doesn't matter which side you believe at this point, you need to believe in a ridiculous conspiracy. I've simply decided that, to me, the conspiracy that Nintendo have gone full-in on a misinformation campaign of epic proportions is more plausible than the conspiracy that someone full-well knowingly threw away their life and career and poured hours of detail into making a Smash Bros leak for a week of fame. A week if they were lucky that is, because at any point ACP-PLV could have come forward and killed this entire thing in the same way Marina did. And not only did they make such a huge sacrifice, but then they just got lucky that additional details outside of their control such as the potential item leak just happened to work out for them.

 

[Raxxel]

Holy ****. My condolences to Isaac fans, that is some Ridley as a stage boss levels of anti-hype right there. I'm shocked. I would have expected Isaac to either be playable or not in at all, but this? Jesus.

 

[Mutsukki]

So we have two credible leakers saying two completely different things about Issac?

Fun.

This is the opposite of fun.

More like 2 credible leakers vs 1 kinda credible leaker

 

[paper roxy]

devil's advocate counterpoint: a lot of what he got right in Ultimate was never originally his, and his record outside of smash is so spotty that it should never be taken as definitive

odamn gettem

 

[Potato_]

...oh **** it's THAT ZhugeEX?

Pack it up boys.

It's done. The dream is dead.

Where did he outright say Isaac was an AT? I thought he just hinted that the ResetEra community was starting to "get it"/put the pieces together.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Isaac is an assist I guess that Rathatos pic, supposed Golden Sun item, and renewal was all for nothing then...