Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

Please tell me the banner isn’t fake I don’t want Steve *shudders*

Please tell me it’s not

It's still not confirmed fake to be fair, the banner being fake was just Mystic's opinion (he said none of his sources confirmed it nor disconfirmed it).

Though, if it is fake, we could potentially end up with all of its characters regardless.

 

[Cahalan]

Sit back for a moment and look back on the choices that have ended up on the banner. For someone "with an inside source" claiming that out of those 7, two of them aren't in the roster, it's a very tall claim to prove in the midst of all of the circumstantial evidence that supports the Grinch Leak.

If Mach Rider isn't the token retro pick this time around, then the only other character that I could think of is Ayumi from Famicom Detective Club, and yet I still find it hard to believe that Sakurai didn't even give Mach Rider a second shot at Smash (see list of characters considered for Melee) this time around.

Chorus Kids are another omission that I find hard to believe. They were heavily rumored in the Gematsu leak and even the Sneaky Spirit made it into Smash Run on 3DS. For them to be dropped when presumably they had much of the ground work done in Smash 4's dev cycle is hard to believe.

 

[Chrollo.]

If Mystic said the banner was real there’d be an entirely different response right now lol. Hell, there was when he originally said that.

 

[ExitWound]

Because they got a secret third character of theirs actually IN the game. The Chief is in Smash Guys lol

Wrong. Steve Minecraft is in

 

[CosmicQuark]

Microsoft is gonna permit Nintendo to use two of their characters so they can bait leakers because....?

Because anything to make it so Banjo's not another character.

Is the only imaginable thought process I can find to connect those infinitely-distant dots.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Mystic says only some of the characters are true and also Incineroar.

And? So what?

 

[Whia]

This is so goddamn weird.

Seems like the general consensus among insiders is, some of the characters in the leak will be in the game (no consensus on specifically who, though), but the leak itself, the actual banner from the Snap video, was an elaborate hoax.

What the **** is happening?

 

[mbvswb]

why do we trust mystic if we were anti insiders

 

[Drarky]

I can somewhat believe the banner being fake. However, what I really want to know right now is:

Where the hell did the banner come from, if it's supposedly fake? Did the leaker just made an insane ammount of lucky guesses? Where did he get everything from? Did he really went that far for a leak that suddenly everything started supporting it?

The ammount of things that have happened due to this infamous banner are what make be on the fence of it being fake. It was pretty much the thing that got the ball rolling and that got us all up to this point, due to how hard it is to deconfirm.

So, if there's ANY answer to this riddle, I really want to know about it, because I am just so very confused at the moment.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I want Mach Rider to have that "exploding into pixels and reforming" thing for a special attack or something. That'd be interesting.

----

 

[Syntherios]

https://twitter.com/mysticdistance/status/1056744695819329536?s=21
This explains his credibility

Sorry but I'll need more than a "I'm legit because I said so" to get me on board.

 

[CannonStreak]

It's still not confirmed fake to be fair, the banner being fake was just Mystic's opinion (he said none of his sources confirmed it nor disconfirmed it).

Though, if it is fake, we could potentially end up with all of its characters regardless.

How do you know?

 

[Roxas215]

Mach Rider not getting in would be heartbreaking. He/She is the only character on this leak im excited about.

 

[Blargg888]

I'm drawing a huge poster with every member I can fit on it.

Oh, that's pretty cool.

If that's the case, I'd like to be part of that too, if possible.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm telling you guys, reading this thread while Listening to "I Am All of Me" makes the discussion seem way more heated...

The one thing I want to find out about Mach Rider is what's the junk in his or her trunk. Because I'm taking Sakurai's word of what it is, man.

Uh... That's one way to put it... Not the way I would have said it... but... yeah...

Mach Rider not getting in would be heartbreaking. He/She is the only character on this leak im excited about.

That's how I'm feeling about the Chorus Kids

 

[IceKitsune]

It really can't be real if we don't end up getting all the characters on it.


If our final Direct is: Incineroar, Isaac, Ken, Shadow, Geno, then it legit cannot be real.

Actually, wouldn't the only character on it that needs to be true be Mach Rider? The second that Mach Rider shows up the rest of the leak must be true. Has there been any other leak that has suggested they are in? I don't remember any.

 

[Mutsukki]

"Some characters."

Unless he's being vague and it can mean only Ken is correct, I think Ken and Geno are the best shot at being right. I... know Verge leaked Incineroar (or something to that extent) and that I could just ignore box theory. And I should, but something tells me there's weird stuff afoot here.

 

[StarLight42]

Alright, well, I guess i'm not really sweatin' in then if the banner is fake or mystic is wrong. Both seem to be good rosters in the end. I just don't want box theory to become true lol

 

[SushiRoll]

This just in! Some guy on the internet says the banner leak is fake!

My dad works at Nintendo, and he said it was fake so there!!
You can trust me cause I won an award for honesty and so did my dad!

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

To be honest with you I don't even care for the banner to be real...

I just ****ing want Banjo.

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

Wrong. Steve Minecraft is in

I believe you mean Steven? Minecraft.

 

[TVDart]

You guys really gotta stop acting so sensitive to Insider input lol. Nobody is presenting it as a fact, it’s just more possible information on this.

I'd hate to be devil's advocate but in this case Mystic literally presented it as fact in this tweet, and I quote: "But the fact of the matter is that, after careful scrutiny, I have to be the guy who says the banner is not real."

That being said, I'd like to take a moment to talk about insiders. This leak season has been filled with heads of various fan sites, journalists, youtubers, and influencers who have come out saying that this contradicts information they have. Now, I don't doubt the validity of their information, but this strikes me as odd. You see, this is the first Smash game I can think of that's ever had insiders actively discussing what they know. Why is that?

Well, for one, I think it's fishy that many of these insiders have come out AFTER the August direct. As of this time, we have Vergeben, stuck in the middle, his information looking more legitimate than ever. Now, tell me, have any of these insiders actually mentioned information that Vergeben HADN'T leaked? Why is it that there's a sudden influx of people mentioning Incineroar in the last month or two, only AFTER Vergeben vagued about the fact that it wasn't Decidueye?

My theory on this whole matter is that a lot of these insiders are receiving information based entirely off of Vergeben's sources, if not from the same people. That is to say, the only reason any of these insiders can talk about Incineroar is because Vergeben already dropped it. Why does this matter? Well, for one, Vergeben was not aware of King K. Rool's inclusion in the game. Secondly, Vergeben has been very clear on the fact that he has multiple sources that he cross references before revealing information. So, what does this mean for the insiders?

Unless these insiders have actually seen footage of the game (which only brings in a new slew of questions, the main one being if Sakurai wanted to deal with leakers, why would he let random people see footage of the game? And, if this was from someone who was handing it out to people, why hasn't it leaked to the general public yet?), then there's a good chance that their trusted sources have falsified/incomplete information that correlates with Vergeben's information. That means that they could've confirmed the fact that they knew about things like Simon Belmont, Isabelle and Ridley long before their reveal, but around the time it was leaked out by Vergeben.

So, since we're aware that Vergeben, our main source of confirmed Smash info up to this point, hasn't had complete information or even properly confirmed information, who's to say that these insiders know as much as they let on? Many of them can say as much as they'd like, but without any proof or giving out any information besides "I know this is real/fake and I know the whole roster", it's worth keeping this in mind.

That being said, feel free to prove me wrong. If there's a Smash insiders who has credentials and we have a reason to believe they have the full confirmed roster information, let me know. Yet, for some reason, I don't believe that's yet the case, considering if it was the case, we wouldn't have the Grinch leak building up steam as it does. I'd like to know all the facts, though.

 

[Cosmic77]

One last thing I want to point out.

If this banner leak is confirmed fake before the next Direct, you can't use it as a resource for who you think is more likely. Chorus Kids and Banjo will no longer be shoe-ins, and we'll have no way of knowing if both Geno and Isaac are getting in. Even characters not on the banner become fair game.

In other words, we're in the dark once again. Don't make the mistake of assuming these 7 characters (and Incineroar) are the only possible additions.

 

[Misery Brick]

Isn't it odd that Papa's source is the sole source saying Banner is legit plus Incineroar?


Out of aaaaaaaaaaaall of these guys, only Papa's source is saying this?

While this has no bearing on anything, I did find it interesting on the NVC podcast, a few of them said they thought the banner was real.
Then again, I took it as them speculating like the rest of us.
Also, I could've sworn there's a couple other people who thought it was legitimate, but hey that could all be fake.

All in all, I don't think this is going to be definitively answered until a Direct.
Or an actual leak of the game itself.

Those are the only two scenarios.

Probably because Isaac is actually realizable as a character, whereas nobody really even understands how the Chorus Kids would fight.

I like my fighting games to have characters that look like they could seriously fight in them, not silly joke characters. I know it's Smash, but still.

If you're looking for a game with characters that look like they could fight, go for Virtua Fighter.
Smash, or hell even almost any other fighting game, is most definitely not your game then.
That's the only series I can think of that doesn't have unconventional or joke characters among the cast.

Also, with characters like Duck Hunt, Villager, Ice Climbers, Wii Fit Trainer, Bowser Jr., G&W or even the other numerous cartoony characters here, you're saying the Chorus Kids of all characters are unrealizable?

If you want to see a realizable Chorus Kids moveset, go check the support thread. It can be done.
Not even to mention the fact that out of all potential candidates, they were actually worked on for Smash 4.

 

[Chrollo.]

Sorry but I'll need more than a "I'm legit because I said so" to get me on board.

I mean, leaking the ending to Scalebound is pretty damn big. He was asked what he got right and he listed it; There’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[Graizen]

Im Team Real , and im going to sleep
Good Night people , love you all!

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

What's Mystic's track record? Genuinely asking.

 

[Rummy]

why do we trust mystic if we were anti insiders

Because he's been respectful and transparent in his sources like with Papagenos.

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

My dad works at Nintendo, and he said it was fake so there!!
You can trust me cause I won an award for honesty and so did my dad!

Ah shoot this is the nail in the coffin sorry guys, I'm officially team fake /s

 

[Dragoncharystary]

To be honest with you I don't even care for the banner to be real...

I just ****ing want Banjo.

Tell me now, will Waluigi be DLC?

 

[Shroob]

Actually, wouldn't the only character on it that needs to be true be Mach Rider? The second that Mach Rider shows up the rest of the leak must be true. Has there been any other leak that has suggested they are in? I don't remember any.

No.

Even if Mach Rider is in, if Banjo or Chorus Kids aren't there, or if Mach Rider is completely different looking than their art, the banner is fake.



This really boils down to our next Direct.



Hell, we'll be able to HEAVILY scrutinize this leak just based on the Direct's length alone.

 

[Potato_]

Sit back for a moment and look back on the choices that have ended up on the banner. For someone "with an inside source" claiming that out of those 7, two of them aren't in the roster, it's a very tall claim to prove in the midst of all of the circumstantial evidence that supports the Grinch Leak.

If Mach Rider isn't the token retro pick this time around, then the only other character that I could think of is Ayumi from Famicom Detective Club, and yet I still find it hard to believe that Sakurai didn't even give Mach Rider a second shot at Smash (see list of characters considered for Melee) this time around.

Chorus Kids are another omission that I find hard to believe. They were heavily rumored in the Gematsu leak and even the Sneaky Spirit made it into Smash Run on 3DS. For them to be dropped when presumably they had much of the ground work done in Smash 4's dev cycle is hard to believe.

What if we just don't get a retro pick this time around? Maybe Sakurai and the team decided to put all their time into fan favorites and big names.

I know we've gotten one every game since Melee, but it's not like it's an ironclad rule that MUST be followed every Smash game. With this game being so dedicated towards pleasing the fans it makes sense that every inclusion would be a highly anticipated one.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Gonna ask again since it got lost - who is Ryce, what are their credibilities, and what did they say?

 

[Kuon]

Mach Rider not getting in would be heartbreaking. He/She is the only character on this leak im excited about.

Same here. That and Chorus Kids, simply because I want to hear what noises they make then hit

 

[Paperluigi11]

Is it just me or is it during the day (central time in the US) Team Real often has the momentum, and during the night Team Fake does?

And then Team hmmmm is usually silently observing and occasionally commenting all the time.

 

[Deleted member]

No.

Even if Mach Rider is in, if Banjo or Chorus Kids aren't there, or if Mach Rider is completely different looking than their art, the banner is fake.



This really boils down to our next Direct.



Hell, we'll be able to HEAVILY scrutinize this leak just based on the Direct's length alone.

inb4 Mach Rider uses the design from Melee's trophy

 

[Will]

I do think that for the size of the remaining list the banner leak supposedly has, it'd have to be one of the following for the next Smash direct:

1. A trailer that shows a majority of them at once (or at separate pieces in a trailer)
2. Individual trailers segmented between the direct
3. No trailer, **** you, you don't deserve them for what you've leaked *insert sakurai disappointed face*

 

[TheCJBrine]

How do you know?

'cause he said so on his long twitter thread.

He didn't mention the banner being his opinion, though he said "after scrutiny," but he did mention no one confirming it nor denying it.

For all to see:


https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720645306880001
https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056744903609335808

And here's this:

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056750192257650688

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

I mean, leaking the ending to Scalebound is pretty damn big. He was asked what he got right and he listed it; There’s nothing wrong with that.

leaking a game from one company =/= to having inside info about Nintendo games

 

[Chrollo.]

I'd hate to be devil's advocate but in this case Mystic literally presented it as fact in this tweet, and I quote: "But the fact of the matter is that, after careful scrutiny, I have to be the guy who says the banner is not real."

When I said “nobody is presenting is as a fact”, I was referring to people who post their input, not the insiders themselves.