Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Link and Toon Link has the same moveset in Wii U for the most part. They play differently though...nobody complains about them? Why is that? It’s because they’re mad a Fire Emblem character got in when their favorite didn’t.

I remember there being complaints when Toon Link was confirmed for Smash 4. It's just that those complaints eventually were overshadowed because of Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit.

 

[Idon]

Hey, if I had the option of having 3 entirely different Links ala Hyrule Warriors, I'd ****ing take it.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Hey, if I had the option of having 3 entirely different Links ala Hyrule Warriors, I'd ****ing take it.

At the very least Link should have gotten more BoTW style moves. More than just remote bombs. Revali's Gail as up-B, and other Champion style moves. Some more Sheikah slate magic. We already have Young Link and Toon Link to carry on the old move set

 

[Chandeelure]

Alright, I guess I'll do my boy Bandana Waddle Dee, my most wanted this time around. My introduction to Kirby was through Super Star Ultra, which was obviously all of these different game modes and stories, but Return of the King was always a very fun one for me, because through Smash Bros Brawl I loved Dedede's design. In Brawl it was always fun to see Dedede and his Waddle Dees, especially when they empower Luigi in the Subspace Emissary. I was infatuated with these little orange blobs and their prevalence in the Kirby series.

And then in Return to the King, we get a glimpse at dialogue between Dedede and a very special Waddle Dee wearing a blue Bandana, ever loyal to his ruler. I thought it was adorable how determined this Waddle Dee was to protect his King, going up against Kirby, who by the point of BWD's "battle", was on a one-man seige. And so later, after his defeat, this little Waddle Dee sticks by his King's side to watch him go down in a masked blaze of glory, cheering him on against Kirby alone in the audience. It's such good characterization in tiny details that really make me love this character.

And then Return to Dream Land came, and on the boxart, alongside the Kirby mainstays, was the Bandana Waddle Dee, and it was a moment of "Heyyyyy. I know him!" And he was a playable character! And I was enthralled with his gameplay and everything that made him unique. And more games kept coming and Bandana Waddle Dee was featured more and more, and given more character, turning him into a strong Warrior, constantly motivated by Kirby. And it was good that this one-off character became essentially the player two of the franchise. Where the other two mainstays have to be Bosses, Bandana Waddle Dee can be Kirby's sidekick, especially in 2015's Rainbow Curse, and the recent Star Allies, where he is the first second-player option.

And I just think he's neat.

That's almost exactly what I think!
The little details are what makes him awesome.

When I saw him in Revenge of the King, I recognized him from Megaton Punch and I was like "That's great!", then the dialogue, the fight against him and Masked Dedede, and finally the credits with him, Dedede and the other Waddle Dees walking in the desert... all those things were awesome.
When I saw him in Return to Dream Land I didn't believe it, it was like a dream come true, because Waddle Dees were one of my favorite videogame characters and seeing an important Waddle Dee playable alongside Kirby, DDD and MK was amazing.

I remember Waddle Dee from Kirby 64 was one of my favorite characters ever when I was a kid, and that I used Dedede in Brawl only because he used Waddle Dees lol. That cutscene with Wario and the Waddle Dees from Brawl was also my favorite.

I just really like the characters, and Bandana Dee is a representation of the entire species (Star Allies even says that!) with added personality and an unique design. For me the spear was something extra, it's awesome, yes, but I would still want Bandana Dee even if he used a sword or his fists lol.

I'm really glad he is a popular character now, I don't even know when it happened, because when I joined this forums, I was like one of the few people who wanted him in Smash and that's why I asked to be the owner of his support thread. I'm very happy more people are accepting him and that HAL and Nintendo are including him in more stuff.

Now I just hope Sakurai sees potential in him, because, like it or not, he is the one that makes the decisions and maybe, as the creator of the Kirby franchise, he just thinks he is a Waddle Dee and that Waddle Dees are too fragile and don't know how to fight. We know he loves Waddle Dees, but maybe that's what he thinks about them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the very least Link should have gotten more BoTW style moves. More than just remote bombs. Revali's Gail as up-B, and other Champion style moves. Some more Sheikah slate magic. We already have Young Link and Toon Link to carry on the old move set

But then you wouldn't be playing as regular Link, but an entirely new character with slight similarities.

Every moveset remains the same core gameplay style with updates(sometimes on updates) to not alienate other players. Link is still the adult form and his overall moveset is still the same from Smash 64, but updated. It's no different from how regular Mario is. It was never going to happen anyway. Of course every character keeps their previous playstyle(but with updates). It's a continuing series with tons of players who played previous games. Adjusting to a change-up moveset isn't nearly as hard as an entirely new moveset. And some already will have trouble dealing with the lack of the Gale Boomerang. And so on. Even the small changes matter.

 

[Kamikazek]

Remember watching that vid a while back! Awesome work, on your whole channel btw.

Now, is it not the wrong way of going after potential newcomers for "filling a quota" ?
I remember there always had to be a Pokémon character, a Fire Emblem, a Retro and a new 3rd Party each time. It's patterns. People obsesses about them.
Personally, I think it's wrong. Take Dixie Kong as an example. People who actually want her, for being unique and true to the character, and have been wanting her for some time, those I can support, those I can gladly agree with, but people who want Dixie to fill an echo "quota?" is something I think is the wrong way of going for characters. Shadow ... Who wanted Shadow before the echo? Same with Dark Samus. (Not saying these characters did not have a fanbase of course, but they doubled in popularity after the whole echo fever, as you simply put it yourself 'PG')

I believe that a character's support should come from people actually wanting to see them in the game. Believe that they will make a great addition, and focus your support towards desire. Not saying that speculating other characters from different series is not fun, because it is very fun, but wanting, or supporting characters just to fill some sort of imaginary void, I believe that's not how fanbases work, or should work.

That's one of the reasons I don't particurarly like the idea of Mach Rider, and Excitebiker, when they are stated to only being desired to fill those quotas. Same with all this echo bull. It's tedious, honestly. And as I said, regarding Mach, and Excite, I'd love to feel excited and hyped for their possible addition, but I don't find them exciting (which is my opinion, which does not mean it's the law), and that's sort of why I wanted to ask people, so that they could hook me onto their idea, but if all people want them is for filling some role, which easily could be filled with other characters that I know got a burning fanbase behind them with ideas, passion, and lots of dedication, that fuels me, and that sells me onto the characters.

I don't want this to feel like a rant, but I do think it's important to put some perspective to your thoughts. (Not you specifically PapaG, but in general). I just kinda wish to hear from a burning fan of Mach and Excitebike, so that perhaps even I could see them, as I don't wish to see them, if all I can go by is filling the Retro pick.

For retro picks, as I understand it the idea is to give exposure to forgotten characters with some degree of historical importance. Popularity isn't terribly relevant, if not a hindrance, since part of the point is exposure. Furthermore the amount of character they have isn't terribly relevant either, or rather is graded on a heavy curve, since they tend to be lacking because they only had one or two games with severe tech limitations and bringing them to Smash is an attempt to rectify that(just look at Pit!). I don't think we're getting them to fill a quota either, though speculation fans will frame it that way just because that's a deeply entrenched apsect of the vernacular. If anything, the impression I've gotten is that rather than feeling like he has to include them for a quota, Sakurai limits himself to the one or two retro characters a game because he knows they aren't crowd pleasers. It's less "I need to find a retro character to force in because there needs to be one for tradition" and more "I need to pair down all these retro characters I want to include to one".

I'm a firm believer that when building a roster of pre-existing characters you shouldn't pick every one of them by the same criteria. That includes the criteria of how popular or beloved they are. Sometimes you should give the characters that've fallen by the wayside a chance to prove themselves. Having a forgotten retro character or two per game serves that function.

On a similar note, when making a character sometimes it's actually fun to go with the character that has the least obvious potential. Yeah looking at their games it's hard to think of a moveset for them, but if you did it'd probably be something crazy and unique that'll surprise people. I'd love to see a character who literally never leaves his bike made to work that'd be crazy and unique. Also gives the devs a lot of creative freedom, like characters who can basically write themselves for Smash are neat but probably not fun for the creative team wanting to create. Same with characters lacking a sense of identity, cool the creative team gets to expand on their identity going off of what they do have. Characters like GaW, Rob, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers I'd never be able to predict their movesets or even mannerisms but they ended up as some of the neatest characters in the game imo. I also think giving Fox a moveset conceptually based around Arwing gameplay and the same with Falcon for a racer are some of the neater things we've seen in Smash.




...and I mean also Excite Bike was a crazy good game for it's time and they tried very hard to inject whatever personality they could with the tech limitations with stuff like the great victory animation, the scrambling animation the dynamic lane changing sprite the sadistic AI the music the sound design and they look adorable in their little biker suits and the game is intensely nastolgic for a lot of older gamers. Mach rider has a really interesting setting and esthetic for a Nintendo game ect. ect.


Might come at you latter with another incredibly long post about "rep" arguments in Smash in general.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

For retro picks, as I understand it the idea is to give exposure to forgotten characters with some degree of historical importance.

Thing is, pretty much all the "retro" characters with historical importance are already in. The only potential one left that I can see that is remotely close to the level of R.O.B. and the Duck Hunt Dog is the Excitebiker just because of how big his game was on the NES. Everything else lack significance and historical impact.

 

[Idon]

At the very least Link should have gotten more BoTW style moves. More than just remote bombs. Revali's Gail as up-B, and other Champion style moves. Some more Sheikah slate magic. We already have Young Link and Toon Link to carry on the old move set

But then you wouldn't be playing as regular Link, but an entirely new character with slight similarities.

Every moveset remains the same core gameplay style with updates(sometimes on updates) to not alienate other players. Link is still the adult form and his overall moveset is still the same from Smash 64, but updated. It's no different from how regular Mario is. It was never going to happen anyway. Of course every character keeps their previous playstyle(but with updates). It's a continuing series with tons of players who played previous games. Adjusting to a change-up moveset isn't nearly as hard as an entirely new moveset. And some already will have trouble dealing with the lack of the Gale Boomerang. And so on. Even the small changes matter.

The references wouldn't even be hard to pull off if they still wanted to retain the core concept of Link. Most changes could be purely cosmetic.

Up B: Revali's Gale: the spin attack now has a windy aesthetic and blue-green flames.
Smashes: Urbosa's Fury: When fully charged, Link is surrounded by blue-green flames and his smashes have electricity applied to them
Shield: Daruk's Protection: Now has a geometric spinning shield with blue-green flames surrounding him. The smaller it gets, the more cracks it gets.
Respawn: Mipha's Grace: Now has blue-green flames surrounding him and a water effect during his respawn invincibility frames.

(Also, a personal wish of mine was that they'd just remove the boomerang and replace it with the blade beam.)

 

[AlphaSSB]

So, for my Birthday today, I received the SNES Classic Edition. Huge surprise, given that those things are sold out everywhere around my area.

So far I've only touched Star Fox, but there's several games that I'm excited to try out.

Let's see if Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario RPG, and Super Castlevania IV will be enough for me to start supporting Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Geno, and/or Simon Belmont.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Here's an idea.

Give your reason for wanting your most most wanted character
Don't try to sell me on the character, just give a explanation on why they're important to you and why you want them.

Let's see what I have to say on Dixie.

I remember seeing Gameboy Advance shown at the local gaming store, sporting Donkey Kong Country and Mario Kart - Super Circuit as the demo games. This was after being introduced to DK-verse via the animated adaptation broadcasted on a German children's channel in our TV, and was surprised to see it was actually a fully-blown videogame series at heart.


After receiving GBA SP some years later along with Pokemon Sapphire, I'd receive Donkey Kong Country 3 a long time after from a friend as a loaned cartridge- though IDK what happened to him because he never asked it back. In fact, I never saw him much since.

Still, the game ended up being ones I'd play good sum out of curiosity or change of pace from more funner ones I had (below).
Within that game, Dixie was a sweet, yet very capable heroine already within - the game also was pretty deep and challenging back in the day for me. I still have fond summery memories of middle 2000s spend with the game along others like Super Mario Advance 2 & 3, Metroid Zero Mission and Pokemon Emerald + Fire Red. Didn't find all Banana Birds for the final boss though.


To be frank, I didn't think much back on Dixie back then, but as time went a dozen of years and I grew as a gamer, I started to noticed how the game itself grew on me more and more as I went back to it now and then. There were two big reasons being this.

One was that I started to notice how Dixie managed to age immensely well as a videogame heroine of my childhood, long after seeing tons of Nintendo-females kind of blending together, even if most of them were pretty remarkable and charismatic on their own. I shared this same sentiment on many other videogame females out there, though I think with them the sexualization or other patriarchal portrayal were much more common.

Of course adding to this is that Dixie was already a definitive Nintendo-heroine, and probably one of the most authentic kind in the videogame history - sharing two titles where she starred majorly (latter being hers), and generally been used here and there around the 2000s at Mario-spinoffs back in the day on top of DK-series' own. All of them had her keep her characteristic charm and design, which ensured me always loving her as much as I did back in the childhood days.

It's not difficult to explain why I need to mention that last paragraph:

Spoiler: What happened to Dixie's sister

On that end, the Smash-games especially tended to emphasize just how much a strong heroine Dixie was, which was really ______ for me to read and agree with as I played DKC3 around similar times when I owned Melee:

"More than just Diddy Kong's girlfriend, Dixie Kong is also a fearless adventurer and a reliable team player. She earned her wings helping Diddy rescue Donkey Kong from the clutches of King K. Rool. Dixie's amazingly quick and nimble, and she's even able to twirl her ponytail in order to float slowly through the air."

- Super Smash Bros. Melee


Diddy Kong's cutie of a girlfriend with an adorable blond ponytail. That ponytail is hardly for show—it helps propel her through the air for extended hang time and is indispensable for spin-attacking enemies and lifting barrels. Watch out—Dixie packs more power than you might imagine!

- Super Smash Bros. Brawl

"Diddy Kong's girlfriend. She loves to adventure with him. Her ponytail isn't just for show—she can use it to swim faster, soar in the sky, and even lift barrels! With hair that does all that, you can bet she takes good care of it! "

- Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U & 3DS



Moving on- the second reason why she grew much on me, was the setting of DKC3, referred as "Northern Kremisphere".

Over the years as I grew older, I came to realize that Northern Kremisphere was surprisingly, VERY similar to the environment I grew up on - I was born on Finland ( Staarih ), and still live there in it's capital city Helsinki.

With that, many places I grew nearby in my childhood were usually within built-in towns covered in forests nearby, with occassional lake or river leading to sea in some other areas. I tended to explore such places highly when young - probably why I loved games like Pokemon or Zelda 1 + Link To The Past later.

So with just how many evergreen forests and lake backdrops there were in DKC3, accompanied mills, snowy mountains and more, had me grow immensely close with the game, almost like playing through a fantastic take on my home country - though if to say something, my parents are immigrants, so lil' tidbit about myself.

Interestingly enough, it was kind of confirmed that Northern Kremisphere was made to be inspired by landscapes and environments seen in Canada and Northern Europe - which includes Scandinavian countries. As far as I know where I live, Rareware did an amazing job capturing and then building further on the familiar domains I lived within.

For this reason, Dixie's become highly representative of my gamer self and also representing the very childhood memories + environment I grew up on, while also being one of most iconic Nintendo-heroines still not among the others in Smash Bros today - which is an immense disservice to her if it keeps up by this point.
Though it helps that Smash Bros seems to have certain fondness and consideration to her during the series' run, as she considered actually to Brawl alongside Diddy (didn't make it sadly) the Trophy descriptions, etc.


However, so far she's still missing, which is kind of concerning - and with all the reasons above, I'd hate my childhood times and fondness to her be reduced on being turned to an Echo, which'd make her Girl Diddy more than anything. I've already lost a lot of characters to Smash Bros in similarly disappointing ways before (Wario, Starfy, Chrom, probably Daisy), so I've been kind of torn on what might happen to Dixie regarding all of that.

I can only hope for best, I suppose.

 

[Opossum]

Thing is, pretty much all the "retro" characters with historical importance are already in. The only potential one left that I can see that is remotely close to the level of R.O.B. and the Duck Hunt Dog is the Excitebiker just because of how big his game was on the NES. Everything else lack significance and historical impact.

Nowadays you can maybe make a case for Sky Skipper, since its whole reason for being a curiosity is the fact that it was an advertised Nintendo arcade game that never got an official release, though prototypes existed. Now they're finally releasing it as part of their Arcade Classics line, so that could be neat to see in a future Smash game.

 

[Scribe]

You hit the nail on the head, and this is really how echo discussion should go. Focus on the specials, the smash attacks, and the regular attacks and then we'll have more of a discussion. I can't think of a move that doesn't work.

Personally I think there are two moves that could be potential dealbreakers for Dixie as a Diddy clone - the rocketbarrel boost and peanut popgun, since both are supposed to be Diddy's signature moves in DK64. Donkey Kong Country 3 had rocketbarrels but they worked differently enough to necessitate a completely different animation, and Dixie doesn't really have her own counterpart to the popgun. I've joked about this before but I think Donkey Kong has a lot of stuff that would make more sense on Dixie - up-special and neutral air come to mind. That said, he's also probably got even more dealbreakers, since a lot of Donkey Kong's moves rely on leveraging his bulk and the length of his arms, and likely wouldn't make sense when scaled down for a character with radically different proportions.

Of course I also think the Wario example from Melee shows that Sakurai would rather cut a character entirely than implement them in a way that he feels doesn't do them justice, so it's entirely possible that if Dixie hadn't been planned since early on, she might not make it in at all.

Personally, if she is a late addition, I'd expect a similar situation to Wolf in Brawl. Rather than a direct clone of one character, I could see her kit being largely made up of re-used animations from multiple characters with maybe one or two original animations.

 

[Arcanir]

Given when the roster was being conceptualised, does it truly matter since Xenoblade X was still the most recent game around that time? At any rate, Rex is more likely to be DLC than in the base roster.

I don't disagree, but it doesn't hurt to learn more about the development process around the time. Sometimes you can uncover something you would've otherwise missed and that can be useful for discussion.

Nonetheless, it was just a question I was thinking about for a while, so I was wondering if there was any insight into it.

Personally I think there are two moves that could be potential dealbreakers for Dixie as a Diddy clone - the rocketbarrel boost and peanut popgun, since both are supposed to be Diddy's signature moves in DK64. Donkey Kong Country 3 had rocketbarrels but they worked differently enough to necessitate a completely different animation, and Dixie doesn't really have her own counterpart to the popgun. I've joked about this before but I think Donkey Kong has a lot of stuff that would make more sense on Dixie - up-special and neutral air come to mind - though he's also probably got even more dealbreakers - a lot of Donkey Kong's moves rely on leveraging his bulk and the length of his arms.

She actually does have an equivalent to Diddy's Neutral B in the form of her Bubble Gum Popgun from Tropical Freeze.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So, for my Birthday today, I received the SNES Classic Edition. Huge surprise, given that those things are sold out everywhere around my area.

So far I've only touched Star Fox, but there's several games that I'm excited to try out.

Let's see if Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario RPG, and Super Castlevania IV will be enough for me to start supporting Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Geno, and/or Simon Belmont.

DKC doesn't have Dixie Kong, but K.Rool's nicely there in the mix.

Still quite annoyed they didn't bother adding in DKC2 or 3. But moreso 2 - one of the best platformers ever made. I tend to call it Ocarina of Time of 2D platformers at times. (I mean yeah, there's Mario-ones, but I swear, it's that amazing.)

Remember watching that vid a while back! Awesome work, on your whole channel btw.

Now, is it not the wrong way of going after potential newcomers for "filling a quota" ?
I remember there always had to be a Pokémon character, a Fire Emblem, a Retro and a new 3rd Party each time. It's patterns. People obsesses about them.
Personally, I think it's wrong. Take Dixie Kong as an example. People who actually want her, for being unique and true to the character, and have been wanting her for some time, those I can support, those I can gladly agree with, but people who want Dixie to fill an echo "quota?" is something I think is the wrong way of going for characters. Shadow ... Who wanted Shadow before the echo? Same with Dark Samus. (Not saying these characters did not have a fanbase of course, but they doubled in popularity after the whole echo fever, as you simply put it yourself 'PG')

I believe that a character's support should come from people actually wanting to see them in the game. Believe that they will make a great addition, and focus your support towards desire. Not saying that speculating other characters from different series is not fun, because it is very fun, but wanting, or supporting characters just to fill some sort of imaginary void, I believe that's not how fanbases work, or should work.

That's one of the reasons I don't particurarly like the idea of Mach Rider, and Excitebiker, when they are stated to only being desired to fill those quotas. Same with all this echo bull. It's tedious, honestly. And as I said, regarding Mach, and Excite, I'd love to feel excited and hyped for their possible addition, but I don't find them exciting (which is my opinion, which does not mean it's the law), and that's sort of why I wanted to ask people, so that they could hook me onto their idea, but if all people want them is for filling some role, which easily could be filled with other characters that I know got a burning fanbase behind them with ideas, passion, and lots of dedication, that fuels me, and that sells me onto the characters.

I don't want this to feel like a rant, but I do think it's important to put some perspective to your thoughts. (Not you specifically PapaG, but in general). I just kinda wish to hear from a burning fan of Mach and Excitebike, so that perhaps even I could see them, as I don't wish to see them, if all I can go by is filling the Retro pick.

Immensely deep food for thought there Zapper.

It's bit of ironic too though, I had been actually planning to make a support thread for Bubbles from Clu Clu Land - but mainly out of remembering of drawing her once and trying to incorporate her to one of my Smash Bros-themed fanfics back in the day after sort of enjoying the game itself. So the character's bit grown on me since.

IDK if she'd be this game's "retro pick" per say, but I've been still fiddling of exploring her as a hypothetical fighter in Smash overall.

Dixie doesn't really have her own counterpart to the popgun

She does in Tropical Freeze actually, called the "Gumball Popgun" - but I think it was shoehorned in to make her function like the other 2nd Kongs for DK since Cranky also gets his "Denture Popgun" that shoots chattering teeth ( from a cane of all things?). Also ninja'd.

Most say this is a fitting reason how her being reworked as a Diddy-echo wouldn't be so hard, since assets from other games are there to make her such. I can probably see this as her neutral B, being like an area control tool incase it'd slow down the opponent on place like Inklings' Side B. On that end, she could use the Feather Gun as a reference to Tiny, which'd work too.

In general, you could make her borrow stuff from other Kongs in the series, kinda like what Lucas (and some other characters) do in Smash-games as a way to bolster up her arsenal of moves. I mean, it's still ironic how DK's using her signature move as his Up B, after all.

 

[Kamikazek]

Thing is, pretty much all the "retro" characters with historical importance are already in. The only potential one left that I can see that is remotely close to the level of R.O.B. and the Duck Hunt Dog is the Excitebiker just because of how big his game was on the NES. Everything else lack significance and historical impact.

You know what, now that you mention it, you're right. They don't need historical significance. Just bringing back a forgotten character is enough. Not sure if that's what you were getting at but that's what I got out of it!

Also I'm pretty sure the current low water mark would be Ice Climbers, not R.O.B. or Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here's an idea.

Give your reason for wanting your most most wanted character
Don't try to sell me on the character, just give a explanation on why they're important to you and why you want them.

As a (amateur) character designer, Ashley's solid design immediately stood out to me when I saw her in Smash 4.
I started to really like her when I figured out who she was and where she came from, her lonely nature and want for friendship really struck a chord with me at the time as I was a pretty lonely guy myself. I also think she'd be fun to play with great moveset potential and I would love it if a character I connected with made it into one of my favorite games of all time.

Sounds fun!

As a kid, I was heavily into both cartoons and weird, but cute, species designs. The Mario series struck a chord with me as it has, quite frankly, some of the BEST cute species designs I've ever seen. Toad, to me, was a perfect design. He emphasised the mushroom thematic of the mushroom themed Mario games, was insanely cute(but not to the ridiculous lengths something like Jigglypuff is) and meshed it with a vaguely arabian themed dress in what is a simple, but very clever design that still holds up today.

Toad further entranced himself to me through the Super Mario Super Show, a favourite as a child, and I quickly recognised Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Toad as the defacto Mario crew, with Yoshi and Wario coming along a little later.

My first Mario game ever was SMB2, and although I initially gravitated towards Luigi, Toad became my character of choice due to his incredible plucking speed and overall running speed. His inability to jump very high was a small trade off, at least for me, for being the most powerful and fast of the four playable characters.

I became hooked later on Wario's Woods, a simple action puzzler featuring, yes, Toad as the protagonist. As I wasn't that keen on Wario at the time, Toad managed to endear himself yet further to me by blowing up Wario's castle, and clambering up stacks of enemies. It was very simple yet very addicitive and I wiled away many an hour on this game, even picking it up on the 3DS eshop at a later date to play AGAIN in my adulthood.

Mario Kart, once again, Toad was my first character of choice and the first one I ever got a win with. Toad was later replaced by Yoshi for me as my favourite upon playing Smash(which really got me into Yoshi to begin with) but I always remember clamouring for Toad to someday be a playable character even back on Smash 64, even though I knew he'd realistically have to wait until at least Peach and Bowser were added first and maybe even Wario.

I had Yoshi, so I was mostly okay at the time, but my sister whose love of Toad was as big as mine wanted a character she could call her own to play with me and my friends. I rooted for Toad for her initially, not realising what a big influence Toad had really ended up being on my childhood and my bond with my sister.

I realised during the Gamecube era when Peach showed up with Toad as a counter. I'd never viewed Peach as a fighter, and much less than Toad(who had in my mind at least fought against Wario AND Wart) so to have her seemingly holding Toad up as an unwilling meatshield didn't sit right with me. It was mildly amusing, but with each new Smash it became less and less so...particularly since during the Gamecube era there seemed to be an active push by Nintendo to remove Toad from playable roles; he was removed from Mario Tennis to be replaced by crappy filler species like Fly Guy, Wiggler and Parakoopa, he was dropped from default to HIDDEN character in Mario Kart leading me to believe he'd actually been removed from the game for a while there, he wasn't playable in Mario Golf, he was forced into a host role in Mario Party...Nintendo was seeming to prevent Toad from being playable after having him be playable in other games.

The rumours of Toad being a super secret character in Melee(back in the early internet days) fuelled a hope and desire for more playable Toad...alongside Sonic and Tails he was part of some of the most infamous fan made leaks of Melee.

With Sonic being added, only Toad and Tails didn't make it, and both were characters I adored and had big impacts on my childhood. Honestly for me, until those two are added I can't view any Smash game as 'Ultimate'. Those rumours were my biggest wants, and Ridley and every single vet returning combined will never measure up to the absolute world shattering hype I'd get for a playable Toad(and Tails).

Captain Toad, who has replaced 'Toad' as my most desired character is the best example of an actual 'The Toad' we have to date, is incredibly charming(check out any of the animations in his game) and is the perfect everyman hero protagonist to me. Just a simple Toad who didn't set out to fight but to explore, and ends up becoming a hero through his actions to save his friend from a magic wielding thieving cruel monster bird.

I feel Captain Toad as a result manages to somehow combine my nostalgia as a child as well as modern Nintendo game design absolutely perfectly.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, for my Birthday today, I received the SNES Classic Edition. Huge surprise, given that those things are sold out everywhere around my area.

So far I've only touched Star Fox, but there's several games that I'm excited to try out.

Let's see if Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario RPG, and Super Castlevania IV will be enough for me to start supporting Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Geno, and/or Simon Belmont.

Happy birthday man! While you got the SNES classic, ya gotta try Kirby Super Star sometimes, among Kirby fans, it's known as the best Kirby game.

 

[Ultinarok]

I really don't want more goddamn swordfighters. None of them are fun to play as.
Plus most of 'em don't look that distinct or interesting.

We definitly need more character designs along the lines of Dedede, rather than more Marths.

Of course you have a right to your opinion. But your opinion is very much the minority one. So my advice is: just don't play sword characters then. They're still the minority of all characters in smash, as brawler type characters are still more common. You may not have fun with them, but many many other people do. I don't anticipate any sword users this game minus a Xenoblade character (who may be using gun-swords or drivers) or Isaac (could use magic mainly), so I wouldn't get your undies in a knot too much. Chances are, we'll see more Dededes.

BTW, considering he uses a disjoint in most of his moves, part of Dededes moveset also plays like a swordie, so I'm not sure if it's the characters you hate, or if you just have beef with swords. But sword users only really differ from everyone else in that they trade frames for range. So what exactly makes them so much less fun? Do you even have an official reason for holding them in such low esteem? Do the frames matter that much? Too anime? A sword killed your dog?

Of course I'm being facetious, but I've never understood why certain people just hate characters with swords so much. Swords are an instrumental part of many Japanese games. Thus, many characters use them. Thus, many smash newcomers may end up with them too. Not a big deal.

 

[dezeray112]

Here's an idea.

Give your reason for wanting your most most wanted character
Don't try to sell me on the character, just give a explanation on why they're important to you and why you want them.

As a (amateur) character designer, Ashley's solid design immediately stood out to me when I saw her in Smash 4.
I started to really like her when I figured out who she was and where she came from, her lonely nature and want for friendship really struck a chord with me at the time as I was a pretty lonely guy myself. I also think she'd be fun to play with great moveset potential and I would love it if a character I connected with made it into one of my favorite games of all time.

I have at least two characters that I wanted to see in Smash.

1. Chun-Li

If anyone asked me other than Ryu, which other Street Fighter character I would like to see being playable for Smash? I would opt for Chun-Li. Ever since I played Capcom Vs SNK 2: Mark of the Millenium where it introduced to the Street Fighter series (and King of Fighters series.) She has been one of my mains within the Street Fighter series and Crossover games along with Ryu and others. Even though I cannot say about her chances of being playable, I do expect that if Chun-Li is playable, I'd expect her to maintain a number of her iconic move sets from the Street Fighter series just like Ryu.

2. Team Rocket Grunt Trainer

I remembered when Pokemon Trainer was first revealed to be a playable character in Brawl, I actually felt that the idea of having three playable Pokemon being controlled by its trainer was very cleverly implemented by the development team. Inspired by the concept, I began to wonder what sort of trainer(s) would be ideal to have a similar style. In the end, I chose the Team Rocket Grunt Trainer as my ideal choice. The reason is that I always adore Jessie and James in the anime as well as their appearance in Pokemon Yellow and I would love to see how the development team can implement this.

 

[New_Dumal]

I really dislike the idea behind giving even more moves from BoTW for Link.
I already thinks that change his default costume to the not-classic one is weird. Not everyone played BoTW.
The hero clothes is the iconical one, not the other way around. Not a problem with BoTW Link, but his clothes should not be the main costume.

Now... Link never represented a single game before. They don't gave them a Loftwing UpB after Skyward Sword, or the T.Princess Spinner. After Skyward Sword I was crazy with all the possibilities they could use from that game (rolling bombs, skyward strike, loftwing, whip, etc.)
But bombs, arrows and boomerang showed that they built Smash's Link to be the default one.

And don't get me wrong, I think the new Link has a lot of cool stuff.
I would love to play a Link that carries a variety of weapons that break on use (like Robin's books).
The champions blessing are cool, sailcloth, there's much gems in that game.

But now we have a "classical" Link with mechanical/technology bombs (?) and with no clawshot.
#NotMyLink

 

[Kamikazek]

I think people get too caught up on trying to reverse engineer the limitations of a echo from the current examples of echos and old clones that didn't end up as echos when the devs are probably being really loose with it.

Dark Pit's character concept was literally just a laundry list Sakurai made of reasons he couldn't be an alt costume, including a whole move (I think people saying "well Dark Pit has one unique move but it's a final smash so echos can have a unique move but it has to be the final smash" is waaaay too deep in extrapolating precedent to rule territory). If they think Dixie works as a Diddy echo but she needs a different recovery and change the tail attacks into hair attacks plus some ascetic stuff, they'll do that and keep her an echo, that's still really minor. Or they could do the exact same thing and give her her own fighter number. Whichever they think will scan better for PR.

Hell I wouldn't be surprised if they're sitting on derivative characters right now that they haven't decided on classifying as a echo or not, especially because I bet good money a lot of tweaking those characters is probably happening as they hit the point in development where they don't have time left to start on a new original character.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

DLC should not be about shoving characters in just because they're from a series etc. DLC should primarily be about what fans want since you asking them for more money for content. Don't even say that people will buy DLC anyway because that is false. I know the hardcore smashers will buy any character any day and probably a lot of people posting here, but a lot of people play Smash casually just like other fighting games. I am purely casual in Mortal Kombat and DBZF and I have not bought any character simply because I am not invested in the game enough which is the FIRST hurdle in getting people to buy DLC (I'm not paying 20$++ for DLC on something I play every now and then unless it's really enticing.).

Do you people remember what happened to Corrin when he was revealed (this one girl literally screamed in agony and yelled noo in one of her reactions. She's also a competitive smasher too). These reactions also happens in other fighting games as well such as DBZF. There's a reason why 3/4 of the newcomers was third party or popular in general. Ryu is universally known and isn't boring (has his own movies etc unlike Spring Man (shade intended to the fullest; Idk why people are pushing him for DLC, maybe people up here just expect it?)).
Cloud is a dream come true, Bayonetta has a decent following and popular even if she may have been promotional material but at least she was known to people unlike Corrin at the time and was in a death battle etc. Veterans are generally popular anyway especially Mewtwo.

Spring Man / Rex & Pyra should not be DLC unless there's actually good fan demand on similar levels of previous DLC characters (besides Corrin). They're either in the base game or bust IMO. You make DLC that people want; not for any promotional material shoving down our throats.

For example, I pretty much never played a Zelda game before and the first thing I wanted in BoTW before I bought it was a hard mode. Guess what? A hard mode was added as DLC along with other bonuses and content. Predictability, I bought the DLC as well because it gave me something I desired without me even being a Zelda fan; the developers gave the fans something they wanted; not no promotional bs or shoe-ins just "cuz".

Lord forbid but if Spring Man and Rex/Pyra were DLC they would need to be Top Tier for me to buy them (now you now why Mewtwo/Bayo/Ryu/Cloud are all Top Tier with Corrin bordering on Top Tier as well :D). Imagine if the aforementioned characters get in and someone that the general population wanted didn't.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

My most wanted character is Skull Kid.

First of all, let me just explain what Majora's Mask means to me, because will explain my desire for Skull Kid. My time throughout MM was the most surreal and transcendental I've ever had with a game. I can honestly say that I felt completely immersed within the world of Termina. The feeling of dread evident in every character affected me so deeply, and the theme that plays when the moon I see about to crash made me physically nauseous because of how genuinely nervous I was.

And who's my favorite character from this game? Well, none other than Skull Kid. He's just so... COOL! I love his design, personality, and really everything about him.

Now, even though he hasn't been disconfirmed yet I don't think, I'm certainly don't expect him. I certainly don't want to get hyped up over him and be dissapointed, but, I do like to think it's possible at least.

Sorry this is now off topic but it took a while to write. Also, any other Skull Kid supporters out there?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

DLC should not be about shoving characters in just because they're from a series etc. DLC should primarily be about what fans want since you asking them for more money for content. Don't even say that people will buy DLC anyway because that is false. I know the hardcore smashers will buy any character any day and probably a lot of people posting here, but a lot of people play Smash casually just like other fighting games. I am purely casual in Mortal Kombat and DBZF and I have not bought any character simply because I am not invested in the game enough which is the FIRST hurdle in getting people to buy DLC (I'm not paying 20$++ for DLC on something I play every now and then).

Do you people remember what happened to Corrin when he was revealed (this one girl literally screamed in agony and yelled noo in one of her reactions. She's also a competitive smasher too). These reactions also happens in other fighting games as well such as DBZF. There's a reason why 3/4 of the newcomers was third party or popular in general. Ryu is universally known and isn't boring (has his own movies etc unlike Spring Man (shade intended to the fullest; Idk why people are pushing him for DLC, maybe people up here just expect it?)).
Cloud is a dream come true, Bayonetta has a decent following and popular even if she may have been promotional material but at least she was known to people unlike Corrin at the time and was in a death battle etc. Veterans are generally popular anyway especially Mewtwo.

Spring Man / Rex & Pyra should not be DLC unless there's actually good fan demand on similar levels of previous DLC characters (besides Corrin). They're either in the base game or bust IMO. You make DLC that people want; not for any promotional material shoving down our throats.

For example, I pretty much never played a Zelda game before and the first thing I wanted in BoTW before I bought it was a hard mode. Guess what? A hard mode was added as DLC along with other bonuses and content. Predictability, I bought the DLC as well because it gave me something I desired without me even being a Zelda fan; the developers gave the fans something they wanted; not no promotional bs or shoe-ins just "cuz".

Lord forbid but if Spring Man and Rex/Pyra were DLC they would need to be Top Tier for me to buy them (now you now why Mewtwo/Bayo/Ryu/Cloud are all Top Tier with Corrin bordering on Top Tier as well :D). Imagine if they get in and someone that the general population wanted didn't.

Well if Spring Man and Rex aren't your cup of tea, someone like Dixie probably shouldn't be too much trouble. Given she was she ended up in a starring role in the next DKC game because of the popularity she gained in DKC2 (which itself is still one of the most successful and well-liked SNES games), you cannot argue a character like her doesn't have proven fan appeal and she's definitely work as DLC if she's not in the base roster.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

My most wanted character is Skull Kid.

First of all, let me just explain what Majora's Mask means to me, because will explain my desire for Skull Kid. My time throughout MM was the most surreal and transcendental I've ever had with a game. I can honestly say that I felt completely immersed within the world of Termina. The feeling of dread evident in every character affected me so deeply, and the theme that plays when the moon I see about to crash made me physically nauseous because of how genuinely nervous I was.

And who's my favorite character from this game? Well, none other than Skull Kid. He's just so... COOL! I love his design, personality, and really everything about him.

Now, even though he hasn't been disconfirmed yet I don't think, I'm certainly don't expect him. I certainly don't want to get hyped up over him and be dissapointed, but, I do like to think it's possible at least.

Sorry this is now off topic but it took a while to write. Also, any other Skull Kid supporters out there?

Bro. I love Skull Kid. He's my 2nd Favorite Zelda character. Considering my first favorite character (Midna) has already been deconfirmed. I'm all up for Skull Kid.

(By the way, fellow Skull Kid Supporter, have you seen this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqc4gno0Hso)

 

[YoshiandToad]

DLC should not be about shoving characters in just because they're from a series etc. DLC should primarily be about what fans want since you asking them for more money for content. Don't even say that people will buy DLC anyway because that is false.

On this note did anyone not buy any of the DLC Smashers for Sm4sh? I know I didn't bother with Lucas as the character didn't appeal to me, I didn't much care for his playstyle in Brawl and I wasn't missing him at all.

 

[Dracyoshi]

On this note did anyone not buy any of the DLC Smashers for Sm4sh? I know I didn't bother with Lucas as the character didn't appeal to me, I didn't much care for his playstyle in Brawl and I wasn't missing him at all.

I didn't buy any of them. Maybe I would've if they were actually sold at a reasonable price...

 

[MBRedboy31]

On this note did anyone not buy any of the DLC Smashers for Sm4sh? I know I didn't bother with Lucas as the character didn't appeal to me, I didn't much care for his playstyle in Brawl and I wasn't missing him at all.

I didn’t get Lucas or Roy, it didn’t seem as exciting getting DLC for characters I’ve played as before (and, no point getting them now with Ultimate on the way.)

Ironically enough, I do have a Lucas amiibo, though.

 

[Kamikazek]

To extrapolate on my last post, because I think I could've said it better...

The difference between numbered clone character and echo is a PR difference to mitigate fan reaction, I don't think many people disagree with that. With numbered clones you don't want them to be too similar to their base, or it'll come off like you're trying to pass off a few "lazy" tweaks as a new character. With echos you don't want them too different from their base or it'll come off like you spent too much dev time on characters that're advertised as being extras that don't drain resources.

Where those two points meet is a huge grey area where any decision of who fits in what is going to be largely arbitrary and I wouldn't be surprised if we get characters who blur the lines even more than what we've seen so far.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I bought all of the DLC characters. I just like having the full roster to play with, and I wanted to support Sakurai and the developers of one of my favorite games.

I plan on doing the same with this game's DLC as well.

 

[Ultinarok]

To answer Noipoi....

I'd say my most wanted newcomer is probably Dixie Kong. I don't know why but I've always enjoyed her character immensely. Ever since I was really young and had a crush on her when DKC2 came out.

I remember being horrible at the game but enjoying the first few levels and playing them over and over as Dixie. Odd to have a crush on a monkey, but the memory always stuck with me, and I love the original trilogy still. Great music, good level design, graphics that have aged amazingly well...and seeing as how she is among the original 3 most prominent Kongs, she has a deserving place in the roster.

It also partially comes from me liking Diddy too, but wanting to play a variant of his style with a character I like more. After Tropical Freeze, I fully embrace the girly Kong. Plus her support group is one of the best on the boards, with pleasant, genuine fans throughout (not saying the other boards dont have this) so lending her my number one vote feels overall better than any other character. Especially seeing how I haven't played the games that have most of the other viable newcomers minus Isaac (never finished it either) K Rool (prefer Dixie) and the Pokemon ones. I like Bandana Dee/Elma/Rex etc but I have yet to play the games they're in, so there's less of a personal attachment.

To put it another way, if any other characters made it in, I would want to try them out. But I probably wouldn't main them. There has to be some sentiment there, which is part of why I love Wolf, Shulk and Cloud. Good memories make a character more meaningful to play. And Dixie is that character among who is left. She's the one potential newcomer that I wouldn't just play with on and off, but would play seriously and often, just because.

In summary, I support Dixie, but at rooting for K Rool as well for his passionate fans. And if he gets in, but she doesn't, I'll accept it.

 

[KMDP]

I bought all the characters, but only on the Wii U version (my budget at the time didn't allow buying both), I think I got the 3DS characters up to Lucas?

 

[Next Door Dog]

I think people get too caught up on trying to reverse engineer the limitations of a echo from the current examples of echos and old clones that didn't end up as echos when the devs are probably being really loose with it.

Dark Pit's character concept was literally just a laundry list Sakurai made of reasons he couldn't be an alt costume, including a whole move (I think people saying "well Dark Pit has one unique move but it's a final smash so echos can have a unique move but it has to be the final smash" is waaaay too deep in extrapolating precedent to rule territory). If they think Dixie works as a Diddy echo but she needs a different recovery and change the tail attacks into hair attacks plus some ascetic stuff, they'll do that and keep her an echo, that's still really minor. Or they could do the exact same thing and give her her own fighter number. Whichever they think will scan better for PR.

Hell I wouldn't be surprised if they're sitting on derivative characters right now that they haven't decided on classifying as a echo or not, especially because I bet good money a lot of tweaking those characters is probably happening as they hit the point in development where they don't have time left to start on a new original character.

This.

They probably wouldn't have wanted to classify Dr. Mario and Pichu as echos since it would've messed up the order they've been going with (Doc would basically be the second slot, as he would be 01ε). Dixie being a semi-clone is (for all intents and purposes) the same as an echo. The announcement of her being an echo would just mean to not expect her moveset to be that different from Diddy's. A different upB and a few different normals wouldn't be enough to change her echo status imo, when it'd basically be similar to the different playstyles Lucina, Marth and Roy have. Whatever Dixie ends up being if she's in the game, it's not like they won't be using Diddy's assets in any case.

 

[Zinith]

Which character (s) do you think got the best aesthetic look? I'll play devil's advocate and state I am not a huge fan of Zelda's redesign (but hey, at least she got something new that people are excited about). On the other hand, Young Link's animations and model look fantastic. 2nd place banana goes to DK for his expressive facial animations and wicked new cargo grab animation.

My answer is pretty predictable, but it will take a pretty damn slick new redesign from another character for me to not say Yoshi. I obviously love his look and personality, but now he has new animations that make him less jittery without sacrificing his bubbly demeanor. Also his new pummel animation is adorable

 

[MasterOfKnees]

On this note did anyone not buy any of the DLC Smashers for Sm4sh? I know I didn't bother with Lucas as the character didn't appeal to me, I didn't much care for his playstyle in Brawl and I wasn't missing him at all.

I didn't buy Corrin and Bayonetta, they just don't appeal to me, and I was pretty tired of Smash 4 as a whole when they came out, so didn't feel like I needed them for matchup knowledge either as I was playing the game less and less. Haven't played online for ages, if I touch the game it's only to play against friends, so it's kinda nice not having Bayo's bull**** in the game at all.

 

[Noipoi]

Which character (s) do you think got the best aesthetic look? I'll play devil's advocate and state I am not a huge fan of Zelda's redesign (but hey, at least she got something new that people are excited about). On the other hand, Young Link's animations and model look fantastic. 2nd place banana goes to DK for his expressive facial animations and wicked new cargo grab animation.

I know he wasn't playable but he was in previous Smash games so i'll say Ridley .
I dunno he's always looked a little janky to me but in Ultimate he looks amazing!
The princesses are more beautiful than ever
Mewtwoand Wolf look great too, and shout out to Sakurai for finally allowing Mario to smile.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

DaybreakHorizon anything new, interesting, or at least chuckleworthy happen on the leak front lately?

 

[Zinith]

On this note did anyone not buy any of the DLC Smashers for Sm4sh? I know I didn't bother with Lucas as the character didn't appeal to me, I didn't much care for his playstyle in Brawl and I wasn't missing him at all.

I wouldn't have, especially in regards to one of my most hated video game characters of all time, but I'm a filthy completionist so I got them

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What was this Bill "leak" I've been hearing about?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What was this Bill "leak" I've been hearing about?

During the SDCC video where Bill was talking, he let slip something along the lines of “People are really excited about the new characters like...Cloud, Bayonetta, and um, the Xenoblade Characters”

Note the plural, and this is explicitly in reference to playable characters, so ATs and final smash characters don’t count