Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

It would be nice. But I hope Ridley isn't one of them. It's going to be like, what, third time?

At this point, Sakurai can't win with Ridley unless he makes him playable. Being a boss character is one of the highest honors for a non-playable character, and the reveal that Ridley was a boss character in Smash 4 garnered so many negative reviews that Sakurai himself had to come out and explain himself a few weeks later.

 

[Koopaul]

It wasn't a real boss though. It's a stage hazard. A real boss is someone you have to beat in order to progress. So Ridley from SSE is a real boss.

As for him teaming up with you or him being added to you KOs, that seems like a last minute addition. He doesn't even have the right matching head icon.

 

[osby]

True. They probably should remove him from the game, otherwise his fans are really going to be angry.

 

[Koopaul]

I mean yeah. I'd rather he not be in the game at all than be an annoying stage hazard. He's one of the reasons I never play on the Pyrosphere without switching it to Omega. And I like hazards and gimmicks. But his is just not fun.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean yeah. I'd rather he not be in the game at all than be an annoying stage hazard. He's one of the reasons I never play on the Pyrosphere without switching it to Omega. And I like hazards and gimmicks. But his is just not fun.

How is not having Ridley in Smash at all better for his supporters than making him an annoying stage hazard? Getting a repeat of the Pyrosphere would definitely make his fans upset, but is throwing him out of the game entirely really a better solution?

It's better to acknowledge the fans in a way they don't want instead of just completely ignoring them.

 

[Koopaul]

Getting a repeat of the Pyrosphere would definitely make his fans upset, but is throwing him out of the game entirely really a better solution?

It's better to acknowledge the fans in a way they don't want instead of just completely ignoring them.

If he's back and it's just a Pyrosphere situation again then I'd prefer not to have him. If it was anything else: A SSE type boss. Assist trophy. Even a Mii costume. Then that'd be fine. Litterally anything but that obnoxious stage hazard.

But this is how I personally feel. Being one of the most annoying things in the game feels like a spit in the eye. And I'd rather not be spat in the eye.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, someone (Sakurai) sure cares about Dr. Mario enough to put him as a model swap of Mario rather than any of his alter egos and putting a bunch of music from his game.

A stage is entirely possible.

I always did get the impression Sakurai was a fan of the game Dr. Mario since it's constantly referenced in every Smash game. Yes it was even alluded to in the first game from Mario's description talking about his different occupations.

I would not be surprised if the concept of a Dr. Mario stage was actually planned for a long time, but multiple factors prevented it from happening. Like how Melee had that remix of Dr. Mario's Fever song for no apparent reason despite the fact that Dr. Mario himself was included late into development.

 

[DNeon]

Lurker coming in add some discussions points on the whole roster options.


When i generally look at a character in smash. I like to understand what exactly is the character specifically representing about that franchise. and the image of the franchise as a whole if i assumed the first contact with the franchise for me would smash...

lets just quickly look at the zelda franchise pool

Link: the main guy. the protagonist

Zelda. the longrunning princess /damsel of the series.

ganon: the villain of most entries

toon link: the other style of zelda series:

shiek: alter ego of zelda



now ill assume i have never heard anything about the zelda series and form an image of the franchise from these characters alone and how they look and work:

link gives me the idea of a fantasy hero in most cases with a weird pool of tools.

zelda definately gives the vibe of a magical princess(what else can i say..)

ganon gives this menacing and powerful feel that you know he is probably the bad guy

shiek: ninja guy

toon link: link with a different look.





the overall image i would get from these about the franchise is a serious fantasy world that also seems to have 2 different styles (toon link)

now the question. how do you feel like this specific franchise's image could be clearer to someone who does not know much about the series?

My answer to this would be a character that represents the goofier sides of Zelda, that always show in its side-casts, which the current representation is not clearly showing. Only giving the idea of a more serious fantasy franchise.



so who would be the best character to fix this?

the character i feel that would best fit this role would be Tingle. reasonings:


*you will certainly not see him as a serious fantasy character
* has been in multiple entries
* has 2 games in his own name. thus representing them too
* is decently popular(at least in japan)

Adding tingle into the pool would give a better image on what the zelda franchise truly is. a fantasy world that has times when its serious and times when its just outright weird.




now the challenge to you people:

pick a franchise that is currently represented in smash

try to create an idea about the franchise and its history with just the knowledge you get from the roster alone

what do you feel is lacking in the current image?

what character could possibly improve this image to give a better idea to new people on what the franchise truly is?


ps: sorry for the wall of text. just interested on other people's visions on this.

This is an excellent concept for a thread in the Newcomer Speculation section. It's too long/effortful for this fast moving general discussion thread, and a deep enough discussion point to justify it's own thread. Love this way of thinking.

 

[osby]

I always did get the impression Sakurai was a fan of the game Dr. Mario since it's constantly referenced in every Smash game. Yes it was even alluded to in the first game from Mario's description talking about his different occupations.

I would not be surprised if the concept of a Dr. Mario stage was actually planned for a long time, but multiple factors prevented it from happening. Like how Melee had that remix of Dr. Mario's Fever song for no apparent reason despite the fact that Dr. Mario himself was included late into development.

Don't even universes without stages or playable characters have remixes? Though I'm not sure, I have to check.

Sakurai once mentioned another reason he wanted to include Dr. Mario was because he thought he wants to have Dr. Mario’s music in Smash.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I feel like boss stage hazards was a failed experiment, they ruined any sort of competitive potential the stages had, and often the reward just wasn't worth the hassle. Most of the time when I played with friends on Wily's Castle we just chose to ignore the Yellow Devil because he wasn't worth the hassle, and I don't even know what happens if you defeat Metal Face as it was just easier avoiding all his attacks. Trying to go for the boss objectives will just put yourself at risk too, not only will you have to avoid the boss' attacks, but your opponents will also know exactly what you're trying to do and punish you for it, and if you somehow do defeat the boss then the aftermath is still pretty easy for your opponents to avoid.

I'd like some sort of mode where we get proper boss battles back, doesn't have to be something like SSE, it could just be a Melee style Adventure Mode, or maybe some sort of gauntlet mode where you smash through waves of enemies with a boss battle at the end. If Ridley isn't playable then I'd infinitely prefer him to be a regular boss rather than the mess we got in Smash 4.

 

[Krysco]

Caught up to page 1033 last night and apparently a post of mine from a bit before that struck up some Corrin talk. Well, more specifically, a reply to my post saying 'we all hate Corrin' did. Felt I should clarify that I don't hate Corrin. I find the character boring and down right stupid in Fates and the personality in Smash isn't much better but they're fun to play as to a point. Not fun to play against though. I also like using Roy in Sm4sh. I just don't like walking billboard advertisements being playable characters, especially since the series sells itself as a collection of all stars and while the term is subjective, I think most can agree that a character that hasn't even been released in their main game yet can be considered an all star.

Shortly after that, there was a bit of buff talk and I saw people wanting buffs for Bowser, Bowser Jr, King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Marth of all characters, Mr. Game & Watch, Palutena, Roy, Wii Fit Trainer and Zelda. Yet I didn't see a single post mentioning Falco. Truly just a travesty that he goes from being great in 2 games to having everything taken away from him that made him great. No auto cancel lasers, no quick, powerful dair, no shine combos, no chaingrabs, Fire Bird doesn't KO anymore, they even took out the later half of Phantasm's hitbox for like, no reason. Oh and jab doesn't link properly even though Fox's does.

I saw discussion of whether Alm could bring anything unique and how to declone Lucina and sorry to say but I don't see any FE character getting a weapon type that they get access to in their second class. Ike doesn't use axes (and Ragnell doesn't shoot beams outside of an Aether custom special), Lucina doesn't use lances and Corrin doesn't use staves/rods or tomes/scrolls. Technically, they don't even use dragonstones since they're never shown with one. Robin uses swords and tomes but they get access to that in their first class. It could happen but if there's been 3 chances that haven't been used yet, I don't see it changing.

I've brought this up before but why exactly does Villager's up special remove the odds of Balloon Fighter getting into Smash? If people can't think of any further moveset than an up special for the character then maybe they aren't worth putting in. But to prove why that doesn't make Balloon Fighter impossible, look at Charizard. Bowser got put in before him and he shoots fire breath and he claws forward with his forward air (though to be fair, Charizard didn't do that in Brawl, just Sm4sh) and prior to Sm4sh, they both did claw swipes with their jabs. Or even better, if movesets can't be shared in the slightest, why do we have clones and semi clones then? Mewtwo and Lucario aren't even clones and yet they share the whole 'charging a ball projectile' neutral special. I don't particularly care if Balloon Fighter gets in or not but to my understanding, it was a noteworthy NES title and every Smash since Melee has added someone from that era and I find it odd how people are so quick to shoot down a character because of one move.

Lastly, I find it funny whenever people shoot down a character idea because the moveset would be 'bland'. Cuz, ya know, we've never had a bland moveset put in before . Duck Hunt has unique specials (up special is a bit underwhelming. Most noteworthy thing it does is make a sound from the Duck Hunt game) and the smash attacks are creative but everything else? Just random, generic things a duck and dog could do. Lots of pecks too. Ftilt, dtilt, dash attack, rapid jab, fair, bair, dair, uair. Lucina is a clone of Marth but she literally lacks the one thing that made Marth more than just 'dude who swings sword'. Ice Climbers have ice abilities in their neutral and down special but everything else is just hammer swings or twirls, there's a tackle in there too. Their concept is unique but the moveset accompanying it is not. Dedede at least has things like his dash attack being a reference to the Kirby games, plus there's his dtilt, utilt and his Brawl bair.

 

[Jellybat]

This is an excellent concept for a thread in the Newcomer Speculation section. It's too long/effortful for this fast moving general discussion thread, and a deep enough discussion point to justify it's own thread. Love this way of thinking.

yeah. i can see your point. guess ill starting one in the general section once i figure out a good thread name..

 

[Sigran101]

The Sword of Sages is designed more for stabbing and technique. It's not a broadsword. It's a longsword. It's thin too. This isn't the kind of sword that can be swung like a club and make sense. Look at Nightmare from Soul Calibur if you want that kind of moveset. The sword itself is very important here too. He needs a new one first, one that is workable with the ideal type of moveset. Some moves can be replaced, of course. Up Air is not a super strong attack, just having reasonable knockback. Even the Sword of Sages works fine for that. Ganondorf(WW) has two swords and fight super differently, to the point that those swords are not feasible as an option.


Actually, that was more Ganon(who always sent you flying with his dual swords). Ganondorf's attacks were enhanced by the Triforce of Power, not so much the sword being used. Doesn't mean a long thing blade would make sense to be sending characters flying far super easily. It's not even possible for it to remotely replace some attacks, like his Forward Tilt, which works best as a kick type.


His primary weapon is only really a sword in WW, which he doesn't use till late at the end. He doesn't have a primary weapon in TP as he simply stole the weapon to basically show off his power and inability to be killed. He attacks physically throughout the game and shows a bit of vague magic as well. And then he transforms into Beast Ganon and knocks you around a lot. Not even Puppet Zelda, who he controls, is designed as a huge hitter. For that matter, he's slamming into you as Puppet Ganon in Wind Waker and shows no real magic usage to any real degree in that game. He's pure physical. Including punches. It's a canon thing for him to punch. He definitely should be keeping his punches, even with some move changes.


He doesn't have an actual Sword in OOT. Ganon, his giant counterpart somehow does. But Ganondorf never used a sword once in that game. The tech demo might be what you're thinking of, which was used as the model, and actually is the only sword that would fit his character design in Smash if you want to actually keep the point of him being a powerful warlord in Smash.


Except this is how Link is represented in Smash. He is the holder of Courage and has many tools to fight. It's impossible for him to show literal Courage within the context of a fighting game without a more proper story mode. So they chose him to represent his other major iconic design, being a master of weapons/items. Zelda is the holder of Wisdom and the magic user of Smash(and eventually the de facto Zelda-series Magic User). Ganondorf is the holder of Power and literally is a powerhouse. He's the strongest character physically.


Only in OOT is he primarily using magic. TP doesn't show it as his primary weapon(because it's not even his weapon, as he never had one in OOT either. WW is the first game he has a weapon, which appear to be variants of the regular Gerudo Swords). WW has him primarily using physical attacks(punches, backhanding, choking) and he eventually pulls out his swrods only in the final battle. To be a primary weapon, it has to be the most used and most important. It's not in either TP or WW. The only actual accurate point is that magic is something he heavily used in OOT. And it's clear that his artwork shows he absolutely will knock someone's lights out, so that already was intended at one point for the character and his characterization. All that happened is it came up naturally in a fighting game.


...Wut. He literally knocks Link for a loop in WW(before pulling out his two swords, even. Which was a one-fight wonder, where he physically assaulted Link more than once in the same game. His primary thing was physical blows with only using his body in some way. Even Puppet Ganon fights more like that. A good swordfight is just for fun and one of the things that is expected out of a Zelda game, again, for fun. With sword fights being quite common in the series, well). He never once primarily used a sword(magic, yes. In OOT. But otherwise physical blows in TP and WW were more of his main style. The Sword of Sages was used first in order to add insult to injury. It was more for symbolism than anything else).


He barely got in Melee due to circumstances. His chances of getting in Smash beyond that weren't high to begin with. Sakurai never intended for the character to get in. It wasn't even really on his mind to begin with. Which may also be part of why he keeps him a clone, as he's not high priority to heavily update with new moves. He got a bit in Brawl using the Flame Choke, inspired by WW and TP's chokeholding moves. It was just luck he had a workable model. Without that? There's a pretty fair chance he'd be no more than a trophy. We'd probably have seen WW Ganondorf if anyone, due to more fighting potential. TP Ganondorf fit the clone mold better, so that's what was used to update him.

Why the heck would it be toon Gannon? Ganondorf is in brawl and he is tp Gannon. It is already a thing. If anything toon ganon would be a separate character like toon link.

Puppet Gannon doesn't count. Unless you want ganondorf to turn into a giant bear puppet in smash it doesn't affect ganondorf in smash Bros.

And oh my gosh he hit link once in a cutscene! Then he used swords in the actual battle. Swords are still his primary weapon. Again, it's the same thing as link sumo wrestling.

Also you ignored my point about the stolen sword. Your "rebuttal" where you quoted that part had nothing to do with it.

You also ignored my point about how it's not sakurai's place to change representation.

Also, you seem to think Sakurai bases characters on whether or not they might change. He wouldn't have looked at oot Gannon and gone "well he might use a different sword in a later game so I should probably just give him punches." The light sword would have been dealt with if he used a sword in melee. They've had bigger hurdles.

Your argument is still one or two punches in cutscenes arcoss the whole series and puppet Gannon which is completely different and would have no impact on smash.

And obviously I'm not talking logistically if he would have gotten into smash not as a clone. Obviously that is what happened. I'm saying it would have been better if he actually did things he does in a Zelda game.

It's not like he's a captain falcon clone because Sakurai thought he could represent power better than the actual Zelda developers if he made him just punch and kick. It's because he was added at the last minute and captain falcon had similar body proportions. That's the only reason.


Frankly, all of your arguments are nothing short of absurd. There is no justification for falcondorf. I'm done with this argument because this honestly seems like a complete delusion and this is going nowhere. I mean no offense, I'm just a little exasperated. I have had a rough couple days so I apologize if I come of as mean.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What the threshold on a creative moveset?

Does every single attack need to be something completely original or does a character just need one thing to distinguish themselves?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Not that this is entirely relevant, but I find that really the only reason people are salty about particular characters being in Smash, deep down, is because it’s not the one they wanted.

I mean, that’s more or less the truth. When I first saw Corrin, I will admit that I wasn’t happy. But then I actually, you know, played the character, and find her very enjoyable. Corrin has found herself as a headline Fire Emblem mascot with Chrom, Lucina, Xander, and Ryoma, and on a gameplay level for Smash offers way more than any of them would.

I’m at a point with Smash that I kinda think that the whole “all-star” status, if it ever existed, no longer applies as much. There are all-stars in our current age of gaming. But if some of these characters we feel are all-stars were all-stars, then why haven’t they been added yet?

Also, if Corrin isn’t worthy to be in Smash, does that mean Greninja should go too? He was added before garnering millions of fans. He’s just about as much of an All-Star as Corrin, yet nobody talks **** about him. It’s ridiculous because of irrelevant reasons like, “Too much anime”, when literally all Pokémon characters have been in an anime.

I say this as a Greninja player as well. He’s probably my most played of Smash Wii U.

When people make that argument, it immediately helps me realize the argument isn’t based on anything other than opinion because Sakurai sure as hell doesn’t care about “anime” when thus far pretty much all characters come from Japan, otherwise known as the country anime comes from.
—-
I hope to be brief with my next thing, but I really just have to say this in regard to the argument that “everybody has equal opinions on what the roster should be”.

Everybody can have their own opinion. Certainly, people shouldn’t beat anybody down for having a different opinion, because that’s what makes discussion and debate so interesting...the exchange of different ideas. I myself have been convinced that some ideas might be cool, when I doubted them beforehand.

However, with the opinion that particular characters should be cut...I really wish some would reconsider. While you may not play the character or enjoy them, this game is not built for everyone to play every character. Removing X character doesn’t really mean your character of choice gets in. Removing said character doesn’t add anything for you, while it does detract from the experience for another player.

The reality is that cuts are a thing. To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy land (although I think there’s an opportunity this time to avoid them). But when somebody says a character should be cut because “I don’t like them” or “I don’t think they belong” you’re immediately creating a toxic situation. No, people will not just have thick skin. You’re targeting their favorite character in, potentially, their favorite game. To tell them to “learn to deal with it” is in line with “hey I talk **** to your face, don’t complain just deal with it”.

This community is based on this video game, and effectively combines a number of different fanbases. Just keep that in mind. Your favorite won’t get in from just cutting a choice that you may not like.

 

[Cosmic77]

What the threshold on a creative moveset?

Does every single attack need to be something completely original or does a character just need one thing to distinguish themselves?

I'd actually like to see more "Mega Man" and "Greninja" characters. I feel like Sakurai went way overboard with the gimmicks in Smash 4. There was Luma, Little Mac's power meter, Palutena's customizable moveset, Miis, Robin's tomes, Monado Arts, Ryu's directional inputs, Limit Break, and the hot mess Bayo and her magic guns ended up being.

Not every character needs a flashy gimmick to be unique. Just make a character who feels and plays differently from everyone else and that's good enough for me.

 

[mario123007]

Xenoblade Chronicles x is the only one I've played and actually liked it a lot, but I wouldn't mind if it's represented through an amazing stage, trophies and lots of tracks rather than Elma. Wouldn't mind if she comes in, but imo characters weren't the strong suit of XbcX, the setting, world and mechas were.

Now... Should I wait to play the xbc1 to play xbc2? And should I wait for Nintendo to release the first game on the switch? I'm totally not buying it for the wiiu

Nope you can just go and play XC2 first and then play XC1.

Considering Xenoblade is nowhere near as big as Fire Emblem and Pokemon, that's unlikely. Fiora appeared in a second game after X was released and is tied directly to Shulk.

Sales wise Xenoblade is getting pretty close to Fire Emblem, when it comes to Smash Bros botht are important role playing game IPs from Nintendo.

This, I don't want Rex in the game, if he wasn't in the game I'd be glad as it would free up space for other characters I might actually like, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna come in here and hate on the character and his supporters

Why NOT want Rex in the game? To be frank, even if it's just personal preference, I think Rex is still the best choice as a new Xenoblade rep if you don't take any development time into consider.

Face it for a moment, popularity wise, Rex is the best choice hands down, but I have to admit that feasibility wise I still give Elma or Cross, or a second XC1 character a credit.

Okay- Time for a new subject...

How about Pyra's clothes?

....

Anyone?

Go discuss it in Xenoblade thread...
https://smashboards.com/threads/colony-96-a-xenoblade-series-discussion-thread.446454/

As much as I love Xenoblade 2 and Pyra and will always defend her and the game... Yeah I don't think that's their intent with her character design.

There's nothing to "defend" when Pyra has positive reception in general... Pyra's design is questionable to some extent that's for sure it is personal preference, that's nothing to debate about this.

I mean true but I don't think not liking a characters design isn't a invalid factor into not liking a character/liking them less. A bad design can drag down an otherwise good character and makes a bad one even worse imo. Looks are still a massive part of every character.

But Pyra's design isn't bad in general... again just because it's sexualized or not your cup of tea, you still can't quickly concluded it's a bad design.
I personally think it is ok, and probably most people who play XC2 don't even care that much.

Anyways I being off topic, so anyone who wants to discuss this, go to the Xenoblade thread...

 

[osby]

What the threshold on a creative moveset?

Does every single attack need to be something completely original or does a character just need one thing to distinguish themselves?

Depends. To some people every character who isn't a clone is unique. To some, every swordfighter is the same.

I think even one thing can make a character unique. Like, Lucario's moveset is maybe kinda vanilla without aura but aura gives him a lot different play style, even with rage. He "feels" like a warrior who never yields.

Or Roy, even how similar his moves are to Marth's, he "feels" a lot more brash and agressive.

Or maybe I'm just too emotional.

Not that this is entirely relevant, but I find that really the only reason people are salty about particular characters being in Smash, deep down, it’s because it’s not the one they wanted.

I mean, that’s more or less the truth. When I first saw Corrin, I will admit that I wasn’t happy. But then I actually, you know, played the character, and find her very enjoyable. Corrin has found herself as a headline Fire Emblem mascot with Chrom, Lucina, Xander, and Ryoma, and on a gameplay level for Smash offers way more than any of them would.

I’m at a point with Smash that I kinda think that the whole “all-star” status, if it ever existed, no longer applies as much. There are all-stars in our current age of gaming. But if some of these characters we feel are all-stars were all-stars, then why haven’t they been added yet..

Also, if Corrin isn’t worthy to be in Smash, does that mean Greninja should go too? He was added before garnering millions of fans. He’s just about as much of an All-Star as Corrin, yet nobody talks **** about him. It’s ridiculous because of irrelevant reasons like, “Too much anime”, when literally all Pokémon characters have been in an anime.
—-
I hope to be brief with my next thing, but I really just have to say this in regard to the argument that “everybody has equal opinions on what the roster should be”.

Everybody can have their own opinion. Certainly, people shouldn’t beat anybody down for having a different opinion, because that’s what makes discussion and debate so interesting...the exchange of different ideas. I myself have been convinced that some ideas might be cool, when I doubted them beforehand.

However, with the opinion that particular characters should be cut...I really wish some would reconsider. While you may not play the character or enjoy them, this game is not built for everyone to play every character. Removing X character doesn’t really mean your character of choice gets in. Removing said character doesn’t add anything for you, while it does detract from the experience for another player.

The reality is that cuts are a thing. To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy land (although I think there’s an opportunity this time to avoid them). But when somebody says a character should be cut because “I don’t like them” or “I don’t think they belong” you’re immediately creating a toxic situation. No, people will not just have thick skin. You’re targeting their favorite character in, potentially, their favorite game. To tell them to “learn to deal with it” is in line with “hey I talk **** to your face, don’t complain just deal with it”.

This community is based on this video game, and effectively combines a number of different canvases. Just keep that in mind. Your favorite won’t get in from just cutting a choice that you may not like.

Kudos.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Why NOT want Rex in the game? To be frank, even if it's just personal preference, I think Rex is still the best choice as a new Xenoblade rep if you don't take any development time into consider.

Face it for a moment, popularity wise, Rex is the best choice hands down, but I have to admit that feasibility wise I still give Elma or Cross, or a second XC1 character a credit.

Because I don't like Rex...that's literally it. Popularity isn't a factor if he were to be chosen before he was even revealed, and a big part of his popularity just comes from being the most recent protagonist, if another xenoblade game came out tomorrow people would hop on that bandwagon instead.

And I would prefer Elma as I like her more as a character and feel she would make a significantly more interesting character.

It's just personal preference sis.

What the threshold on a creative moveset?

Does every single attack need to be something completely original or does a character just need one thing to distinguish themselves?

I don't think they need a gimmick or anything, as long as they play differently than the rest of the cast and have completely unique animations and attributes for everything.

 

[Koopaul]

Thank goodness I have no interest in Xenoblade and I do not care who gets in. I'm still thinking Elma is the most likely newcomer. But if I'm wrong it matters little.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Alright here's something I pulled together. It's a prediction roster of sorts, only based on info from current rumors, mostly the Ridley/Simon one and Emily's tease of an "Ultimate Smash Roster". A couple of these rumors have stated similar ideas (likely to be no cuts, several people mentioning Ridley) so I think there could be a connection. Plus it adds up to the my idea that this started as a port, and maybe got beefed up to an ultimate version or something. Anyway take a look.

10 Newcomers + 3 Returning Vets. Based most of my decisions off characters that are popular that would make it onto an "Ultimate Roster" via the ballot and such. This roster generally doesn't consider recent releases and such, hence no new Xenoblade rep, but only characters that would stir excitement. I'll throw in a few explanations.

Spoiler

Mario Rep - Several Mario characters are highly requested (Toad/Waluigi/Paper Mario/even Daisy) and we've pretty consistently gotten new Mario reps. So just a popular Mario character.
Takamaru - Kept with the retro rep and went for a popular one. Might be unnecessary.
Pokemon Rep - Alright this is the only one that really would have been influenced by recent games and that's only because Pokemon games sell, so there's no real worry with one of the new Pokemon being popular or not. Any Gen 7 Pokemon, pick whichever makes you happiest.
Chorus Men - Along with Ice Climbers getting put in due to no constraints, I think Sakurai was working on Chorus Men and faced the same issue. That's just Gematsu leak conspiracy though I'm not partial to their inclusion
Rayman - Just makes too much sense. But you can substitute for a more popular 3rd party that might be chosen because of the ballot.

I'm open to suggestions, but I want to keep it at this many characters, no more no less (it makes a perfect rectangle and I think would still fit the original CSS screen nicely...yeah I know that isn't important lol). 69 (71 with all Miis) also seems like a reasonable number of characters. Also reminder that this isn't my actual prediction but just a fun experiment based on the recent rumors so don't be mean

That's close to how I would go if thr Simon/Ridley leak is real

Mistake 1: you didn't put a xenoblade newcomer especially since sakurai is a fan of xenoblade

Mistake 2: eevee goth decent shot at this from the Pokémon let's go leak and that eevee can summon the evolution forms

Mistake 3: Decidueye is the most likely new Pokémon rep oh by the way as for gengar possible due to ghost type decidueye is a ghost grass type so killing two birds with one stone.

Mistake 4: arms rep might be possible by the way I just hit me on something wouldn't it be simplier to do the bowser jr treatment with alts on this?

Mistake 5: crash bandicoot and shovel knight may have a more decent shot than ray man (dlc slot anyway)

Last mistake: I don't see a WTF character (melee:mr game and watch, brawl:R.O.B and Smash 4: duck hunt and Wii fit trainer.)

The biggest correct is king k rool since a ton is in his favor with the mii costume, the kermlings in smash run and the smash ballot since he's likely number 2 on that unless sakurai lied about bayonetta, anyway the bigger thing is half to some of the newcomers picks will most likely be based off who we voted for on the ballot.

 

[Zerp]

Not that this is entirely relevant, but I find that really the only reason people are salty about particular characters being in Smash, deep down, is because it’s not the one they wanted.

I mean, that’s more or less the truth. When I first saw Corrin, I will admit that I wasn’t happy. But then I actually, you know, played the character, and find her very enjoyable. Corrin has found herself as a headline Fire Emblem mascot with Chrom, Lucina, Xander, and Ryoma, and on a gameplay level for Smash offers way more than any of them would.

I’m at a point with Smash that I kinda think that the whole “all-star” status, if it ever existed, no longer applies as much. There are all-stars in our current age of gaming. But if some of these characters we feel are all-stars were all-stars, then why haven’t they been added yet?

Also, if Corrin isn’t worthy to be in Smash, does that mean Greninja should go too? He was added before garnering millions of fans. He’s just about as much of an All-Star as Corrin, yet nobody talks **** about him. It’s ridiculous because of irrelevant reasons like, “Too much anime”, when literally all Pokémon characters have been in an anime.

I say this as a Greninja player as well. He’s probably my most played of Smash Wii U.

When people make that argument, it immediately helps me realize the argument isn’t based on anything other than opinion because Sakurai sure as hell doesn’t care about “anime” when thus far pretty much all characters come from Japan, otherwise known as the country anime comes from.

Eh, I don't think ALL saltiness comes from that selfish desire, I was peeved about Corrin not just because he "got in the way of insertmuhfavoritehere" but mainly because he came at a time where Nintendo was looking like they wanted to answer fan demand and what-not with that ballot they were hosting, but ended up adding a character that only a small minority wanted leaving popular and beloved picks like King K. Rool and Wolf in the dust, and ended up giving more love to a small franchise that had already received a ton of it in Smash 4 as opposed to a fanbase that got next to nothing, like DK, Metroid, etc. I wouldn't have been angered if it was K. Rool, Isaac, insertotherpopularcharacterhere, because those were requested by a sizable amount of people, my problem with Corrin was that they were pretty much the opposite of what the community wanted at the time, and I wanted at least a large amount of the community to get something it wanted regardless of whether or not I got anything lol.

I hope to be brief with my next thing, but I really just have to say this in regard to the argument that “everybody has equal opinions on what the roster should be”.

Everybody can have their own opinion. Certainly, people shouldn’t beat anybody down for having a different opinion, because that’s what makes discussion and debate so interesting...the exchange of different ideas. I myself have been convinced that some ideas might be cool, when I doubted them beforehand.

However, with the opinion that particular characters should be cut...I really wish some would reconsider. While you may not play the character or enjoy them, this game is not built for everyone to play every character. Removing X character doesn’t really mean your character of choice gets in. Removing said character doesn’t add anything for you, while it does detract from the experience for another player.

The reality is that cuts are a thing. To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy land (although I think there’s an opportunity this time to avoid them). But when somebody says a character should be cut because “I don’t like them” or “I don’t think they belong” you’re immediately creating a toxic situation. No, people will not just have thick skin. You’re targeting their favorite character in, potentially, their favorite game. To tell them to “learn to deal with it” is in line with “hey I talk **** to your face, don’t complain just deal with it”.

This community is based on this video game, and effectively combines a number of different fanbases. Just keep that in mind. Your favorite won’t get in from just cutting a choice that you may not like.

Agreed. Cuts are bad, even for additions I hated getting in like Corrin, I wouldn't support cuts because after they get in, people you know, main them? I wouldn't want my main cut and honestly I don't really get why people are so eager to cut someone else's.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That's close to how I would go if thr Simon/Ridley leak is real

Mistake 1: you didn't put a xenoblade newcomer in

Mistake 2: eevee goth decent shot at this from the Pokémon let's go leak and that eevee can summon the evolution forms

Mistake 3: Decidueye is the most likely new Pokémon rep oh by the way as for gengar possible due to ghost type decidueye is a ghost grass type so killing two birds with one stone.

Mistake 4: arms rep might be possible by the way I just hit me on something wouldn't it be simplier to do the bowser jr treatment with alts on this?

Mistake 5: crash bandicoot and shovel knight may have a more decent shot than ray man (dlc slot anyway)

Last mistake: I don't see a WTF character (melee:mr game and watch, brawl:R.O.B and Smash 4: duck hunt and Wii fit trainer.)

The biggest correct is king k rool since a ton is in his favor with the mii costume, the kermlings in smash run and the smash ballot since he's likely number 2 on that unless sakurai lied about bayonetta, anyway the bigger thing is half to some of the newcomers picks will most likely be based off who we voted for on the ballot.

For like the third time this is only based on the ballot/other popular choices at the time because this is formed as an ultimate version not a technical sequel.

1. Neither of the new Xenoblade games were out by the time of the ballot and the series didn't have any super popular characters at the time.

2. The Switch game is defintely to late in the development cycle, that's true for my regular prediction roster too.

3. I put in a gen 7 Pokemon so yea.

4. Arms wouldn't make a most requested character roster back in 2016.

5. While I think Rayman makes more sense im willing to substitute other popular third parties. However Crash and Shovel Knight aren't that popular choices especially at the time.

I thought I made it clear that this was a really specific experiment and not a roster based on how normally smash games are decided. Guess I should just post my actual prediction roster.

 

[Chron]

Eh, I don't think ALL saltiness comes from that selfish desire, I was peeved about Corrin not just because he "got in the way of insertmuhfavoritehere" but mainly because he came at a time where Nintendo was looking like they wanted to answer fan demand and what-not with that ballot they were hosting, but ended up adding a character that only a small minority wanted leaving popular and beloved picks like King K. Rool and Wolf in the dust, and ended up giving more love to a small franchise that had already received a ton of it in Smash 4 as opposed to a fanbase that got next to nothing, like DK, Metroid, etc. I wouldn't have been angered if it was K. Rool, Isaac, insertotherpopularcharacterhere, because those were requested by a sizable amount of people, my problem with Corrin was that they were pretty much the opposite of what the community wanted at the time, and I wanted at least a large amount of the community to get something it wanted regardless of whether or not I got anything lol.

Agreed. Cuts are bad, even for additions I hated getting in like Corrin, I wouldn't support cuts because after they get in, people you know, main them? I wouldn't want my main cut and honestly I don't really get why people are so eager to cut someone else's.

I'm a huge FE fan, so I'm extremely happy for every new addition, and it hurts to say it, but I agree. (I do think people overreacted a little about Corrin, because she wasn't just another Marth clone like people thought, she had a very original and fun moveset.) The FE representation is pretty big, and personally, I'm all for it. If, that is, they aren't all "generic" sword users. I would love having Lucina(new moveset), Chrom, Marth, Ike, and Roy, with all of they're movesets being slightly different, reflecting they're fighting styles. However, that's hard to appreciate if you aren't a FE fan or even a hardcore smasher. So YES I think a large FE representation would be great, but give us no more than two original(non-clone) swordfighters, and throw in Axe Fighters, Lancers, Felicia, more dragons like Corrin, even Cavalry would be awesome, but not too big of a FE roster.

 

[Pacack]

I see it as literally the exact opposite of this, lol. Ganondorf didn't even own a sword in OoT. He was beyond a sword. He laughs at dudes coming at him with swords. Then that blasted Gamecube tech demo had to get it in everybody's mind that he should be swinging a sword around like every other fantasy villain.

The logic behind making Ganondorf a clone at the time was completely sound. He deserves a mild shakeup, but frankly most the older cast does. When you look at the creativity on display for some of the newcomers in Smash 4 it almost makes you wish some of the vets weren't added when they were.

My apologies, I believe I misrepresented my point.

I wasn't referring to swords vs physical strength in my post, but rather physical strength vs. magic. I personally don't associate Ganondorf with swords, nor do I associate him with physical brawling.

Rather, since I've not played TP or WW all the way through, I consider him a sorcerer because of his OoT appearance. That's not to say that Ganondorf doesn't use swords or fight with his fists (he does both) - I just don't associate him as strongly with those forms of fighting as I do with magic.

My ideal Ganondorf representation would be largely the same as we have now, but with some of his specials, his up-tilt, his up-air, and his nair changed.

I would change neutral B to his sword custom, change his up-B to a float ala OoT (that said, I don't hate his current up-b), and change his down B to Dead Man's Volley. His up tilt and aerial I would make bursts of dark energy, and his nair I would change to a brief encircling of fiery keese like he summons as Ganon in aLttP.

His other moves could have electric/dark effects added, but are otherwise golden.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why the heck would it be toon Gannon? Ganondorf is in brawl and he is tp Gannon. It is already a thing. If anything toon ganon would be a separate character like toon link.

It's blatantly a case you didn't even read the point. Ganondorf in TP is pretty much there because he is still similar to the Falcon-style build and easy to change up without losing the moveset that defines him in Smash. Toon Ganondorf, on the other hand, would've made more sense for a unique moveset if Ganondorf was never in Melee. One had way more potential, including a dual-sword mechanic, something unused. Not that TP Ganondorf would've been impossible to add to Brawl if he wasn't a clone in Melee, but the character design played a huge role in him coming back. It's about the model differences. TP Ganondorf and Falcon still have extremely similar skeletons. Only Toon Link needed quite a bit of changing among clones to work due to having a fairly different skeleton.

Puppet Gannon doesn't count. Unless you want ganondorf to turn into a giant bear puppet in smash it doesn't affect ganondorf in smash Bros.

Of course it counts. It's a form of Ganon attacking someone physically without magic. Don't deny facts because it doesn't fit your personal view.

And oh my gosh he hit link once in a cutscene! Then he used swords in the actual battle. Swords are still his primary weapon. Again, it's the same thing as link sumo wrestling.

He also backhanded Link beforehand. Quite a bit into it. And Link actually would be awesome if he had something related to his sumo stuff. No, Swords do not become his primary weapon when he uses them as a last resort. Those are a secondary weapon. Do you even know what primary even means? It's their own personal first choice. You can argue that for TP, but not for WW, where his first choice is to brutally use his physical prowess instead.

Also you ignored my point about the stolen sword. Your "rebuttal" where you quoted that part had nothing to do with it.

That it's not designed to be a power weapon so much as a finesse one? That it isn't a real primary weapon? That he didn't have a sword in OOT? I perhaps misread it, but considering how many pages ago it was, please re-peat it so I can make sure I read it correctly.

You also ignored my point about how it's not sakurai's place to change representation.

Not really true at all. He does a lot of this on his own, though he does have to ask. But if Aonuma was against it, Ganondorf wouldn't be in and a physical representation of Power through and through.

Also, you seem to think Sakurai bases characters on whether or not they might change. He wouldn't have looked at oot Gannon and gone "well he might use a different sword in a later game so I should probably just give him punches." The light sword would have been dealt with if he used a sword in melee. They've had bigger hurdles.

Because he would know a sword would suddenly become a canon thing? All he knew was the opposite, so looked at him as a physical fighter first and foremost. The only thing that would've changed is if he didn't get in Melee. Beyond that, of course he didn't outright remove a ton of his playstyle. He doesn't do this because it alienates players.

Your argument is still one or two punches in cutscenes arcoss the whole series and puppet Gannon which is completely different and would have no impact on smash.

Him being a physical fighter quite a bit in the games is totally irrelevant. Yeah, okay. It's not going to be ignored. If he wasn't the right build in TP, he wouldn't have even been brought back under that design. It's highly important that when returning a character that development isn't near impossible. His only chance to be a magical swordsman instead of a magical brutish fighter was only having impossible to update builds, so basically being a newcomer. That's not what happened.

And obviously I'm not talking logistically if he would have gotten into smash not as a clone. Obviously that is what happened. I'm saying it would have been better if he actually did things he does in a Zelda game.

Let's see. Does he thrust with a sword like in TP? Yes. Does he punch like in WW? Yes. Does he actually use magic in Smash? Yes. Being magical punches still make them magic. The only legitimate moves that can be made a case for are Dark Dive and the various kicks. But that's literally it.

It's not like he's a captain falcon clone because Sakurai thought he could represent power better than the actual Zelda developers if he made him just punch and kick. It's because he was added at the last minute and captain falcon had similar body proportions. That's the only reason.

If you actually think he would've done it if the moveset didn't actually make any sense whatsoever to the character, you don't know anything about development or mindsets. He absolutely does care about trying to represent the characterization of the characters added.

Frankly, all of your arguments are nothing short of absurd. There is no justification for falcondorf. I'm done with this argument because this honestly seems like a complete delusion and this is going nowhere. I mean no offense, I'm just a little exasperated. I have had a rough couple days so I apologize if I come of as mean.

There is always justification for Falcondorf. What's absurd is that you can't accept that it still fits the representation of Power. The justification was that there was no way to add Ganondorf otherwise and it still shows him as the most powerful character in Smash playable.

You don't have to like the representation. That's fine. But you need to accept it has actual legitimate accuracy. We should count ourselves lucky that Ganondorf ever got a sword, as him flinging magic and knocking away others through displays of power was all he could do(and actual proper implications he will punch, as shown by the OOT artwork. This is important, as it means it was meant to be a thing anyway. The sword was just a later on idea via the Tech Demo, which isn't even remotely similar of a type of sword he ever used in a canon game. In fact, HW is the first time he uses a remotely similar type of sword, which is a Zweihander. I might've spelled that wrong, but this style is way different from things like longswords, schimitars, and rapiers. The type of sword matters in how you use it).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Eh, I don't think ALL saltiness comes from that selfish desire, I was peeved about Corrin not just because he "got in the way of insertmuhfavoritehere" but mainly because he came at a time where Nintendo was looking like they wanted to answer fan demand and what-not with that ballot they were hosting, but ended up adding a character that only a small minority wanted leaving popular and beloved picks like King K. Rool and Wolf in the dust, and ended up giving more love to a small franchise that had already received a ton of it in Smash 4 as opposed to a fanbase that got next to nothing, like DK, Metroid, etc. I wouldn't have been angered if it was K. Rool, Isaac, insertotherpopularcharacterhere, because those were requested by a sizable amount of people, my problem with Corrin was that they were pretty much the opposite of what the community wanted at the time, and I wanted at least a large amount of the community to get something it wanted regardless of whether or not I got anything lol.

Agreed. Cuts are bad, even for additions I hated getting in like Corrin, I wouldn't support cuts because after they get in, people you know, main them? I wouldn't want my main cut and honestly I don't really get why people are so eager to cut someone else's.

I agree with what you were saying on the initial reaction, in terms of satisfying fan demand. It became different for me when it turned out that they picked Corrin as a character from a newer game or whatever it is. That made it make more sense to me entirely, so it doesn’t bother me.

If there’s another FE character in the Switch game? I suppose salt is more understandable. If not? Eh. I think the FE cast is fine.

 

[Zedepeda05]

My apologies, I believe I misrepresented my point.

I wasn't referring to swords vs physical strength in my post, but rather physical strength vs. magic. I personally don't associate Ganondorf with swords, nor do I associate him with physical brawling.

Rather, since I've not played TP or WW all the way through, I consider him a sorcerer because of his OoT appearance. That's not to say that Ganondorf doesn't use swords or fight with his fists (he does both) - I just don't associate him as strongly with those forms of fighting as I do with magic.

My ideal Ganondorf representation would be largely the same as we have now, but with some of his specials, his up-tilt, his up-air, and his nair changed.

I would change neutral B to his sword custom, change his up-B to a float ala OoT (that said, I don't hate his current up-b), and change his down B to Dead Man's Volley. His up tilt and aerial I would make bursts of dark energy, and his nair I would change to a brief encircling of fiery keese like he summons as Ganon in aLttP.

His other moves could have electric/dark effects added, but are otherwise golden.

I honestly don't think Sakurai would change Ganondorf's appearance for the next smash game. He changed it to TW Ganon and probably won't change it again. Although, I think it would be cool if Sakurai changed his move set so it can not be similar to Captain Falcon, and to change his run animation to melee Ganon's

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly don't think Sakurai would change Ganondorf's appearance for the next smash game. He changed it to TW Ganon and probably won't change it again. Although, I think it would be cool if Sakurai changed his move set so it can not be similar to Captain Falcon, and to change his run animation to melee Ganon's

It doesn't help that he has no updated canon appearance either. HW is the only one to go with, and that still fits his regular moveset in Smash well due to being a physical fighter in design. If anything, it might justify a few neat sword moves? That said, HW Ganondorf uses moves from Smash too, including the Warlock Punch, so... it could work.

BOTW doesn't honestly have anything usable. The only thing that kind of comes close is Phantom Ganon's design from OOT, who is vastly different from regular Ganondorf.

 

[Pazzo.]

Since Roy and Link got composite designs, a OoT/TP/BoTW Ganondorf would be a lot of fun.

 

[Zedepeda05]

It doesn't help that he has no updated canon appearance either. HW is the only one to go with, and that still fits his regular moveset in Smash well due to being a physical fighter in design. If anything, it might justify a few neat sword moves? That said, HW Ganondorf uses moves from Smash too, including the Warlock Punch, so... it could work.

BOTW doesn't honestly have anything usable. The only thing that kind of comes close is Phantom Ganon's design from OOT, who is vastly different from regular Ganondorf.

When you mean canon appearance, you mean the latest Ganon to date? or if it just sticks to the original time line of all of the LOZ games?

Since Roy and Link got composite designs, a OoT/TP/BoTW Ganondorf would be a lot of fun.

I don't think they would be able to put BoTW Ganondorf because he was only Ganon for the entire game, they wouldn't be able to get much moves from that game because some of them look over powered. Even if they did add BoTW Ganondorf, it would be a Ridley situation with him being "too big" and such. On a completely unrealated note, I would like to see Wolf return in Smash for Switch. He was a fun character to play in Brawl and was really unique in terms of aerials, tilts, and smashes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When you mean canon appearance, you mean the latest Ganon to date? or if it just sticks to the original time line of all of the LOZ games?

I mean only non-spin-offs. HW is a spin-off game. Ganondorf has yet to appear since TP in a canon Zelda game. Ganon has, however. In fact, some of the Blight versions of Ganon could be interesting, especially if they wanted to add Moblin Ganon(his last appearance was FSA or the Oracle games, if I remember right. Not counting A Link Between Worlds, as that's more Yuga taking over his body and fusing with it, creating a completely different character).

Also, please don't double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Egad, so much fervor among fans around this time; Xenoblade reps, what Ganondorf is supposed to be like...
If you ask me, this thread needs more love! Have a lovely Kirby to brighten up your day!

Spoiler

 

[osby]

Since Roy and Link got composite designs, a OoT/TP/BoTW Ganondorf would be a lot of fun.

I agree but which Ganon would be the base? Ganondorf in OoT and TP hardly looks like the same character when you remove the colour, their faces are so different. If they are going to make him look older, he'll probably look like his TP incarnation with some OoT inspirations, which... is mostly HW Ganondorf, except his mane.

And I'm curious which version of Beast Ganon they'll choose.

 

[Zedepeda05]

I mean only non-spin-offs. HW is a spin-off game. Ganondorf has yet to appear since TP in a canon Zelda game. Ganon has, however. In fact, some of the Blight versions of Ganon could be interesting, especially if they wanted to add Moblin Ganon(his last appearance was FSA or the Oracle games, if I remember right. Not counting A Link Between Worlds, as that's more Yuga taking over his body and fusing with it, creating a completely different character).

Also, please don't double post. Edit your messages instead.

There was a Moblin Ganon? And when you talk about the Blights, do you mean their powers would be used as moves possibly for BoTW Ganon?

 

[Sigran101]

It's blatantly a case you didn't even read the point. Ganondorf in TP is pretty much there because he is still similar to the Falcon-style build and easy to change up without losing the moveset that defines him in Smash. Toon Ganondorf, on the other hand, would've made more sense for a unique moveset if Ganondorf was never in Melee. One had way more potential, including a dual-sword mechanic, something unused. Not that TP Ganondorf would've been impossible to add to Brawl if he wasn't a clone in Melee, but the character design played a huge role in him coming back. It's about the model differences. TP Ganondorf and Falcon still have extremely similar skeletons. Only Toon Link needed quite a bit of changing among clones to work due to having a fairly different skeleton.


Of course it counts. It's a form of Ganon attacking someone physically without magic. Don't deny facts because it doesn't fit your personal view.


He also backhanded Link beforehand. Quite a bit into it. And Link actually would be awesome if he had something related to his sumo stuff. No, Swords do not become his primary weapon when he uses them as a last resort. Those are a secondary weapon. Do you even know what primary even means? It's their own personal first choice. You can argue that for TP, but not for WW, where his first choice is to brutally use his physical prowess instead.


That it's not designed to be a power weapon so much as a finesse one? That it isn't a real primary weapon? That he didn't have a sword in OOT? I perhaps misread it, but considering how many pages ago it was, please re-peat it so I can make sure I read it correctly.


Not really true at all. He does a lot of this on his own, though he does have to ask. But if Aonuma was against it, Ganondorf wouldn't be in and a physical representation of Power through and through.


Because he would know a sword would suddenly become a canon thing? All he knew was the opposite, so looked at him as a physical fighter first and foremost. The only thing that would've changed is if he didn't get in Melee. Beyond that, of course he didn't outright remove a ton of his playstyle. He doesn't do this because it alienates players.


Him being a physical fighter quite a bit in the games is totally irrelevant. Yeah, okay. It's not going to be ignored. If he wasn't the right build in TP, he wouldn't have even been brought back under that design. It's highly important that when returning a character that development isn't near impossible. His only chance to be a magical swordsman instead of a magical brutish fighter was only having impossible to update builds, so basically being a newcomer. That's not what happened.


Let's see. Does he thrust with a sword like in TP? Yes. Does he punch like in WW? Yes. Does he actually use magic in Smash? Yes. Being magical punches still make them magic. The only legitimate moves that can be made a case for are Dark Dive and the various kicks. But that's literally it.


If you actually think he would've done it if the moveset didn't actually make any sense whatsoever to the character, you don't know anything about development or mindsets. He absolutely does care about trying to represent the characterization of the characters added.


There is always justification for Falcondorf. What's absurd is that you can't accept that it still fits the representation of Power. The justification was that there was no way to add Ganondorf otherwise and it still shows him as the most powerful character in Smash playable.

You don't have to like the representation. That's fine. But you need to accept it has actual legitimate accuracy. We should count ourselves lucky that Ganondorf ever got a sword, as him flinging magic and knocking away others through displays of power was all he could do(and actual proper implications he will punch, as shown by the OOT artwork. This is important, as it means it was meant to be a thing anyway. The sword was just a later on idea via the Tech Demo, which isn't even remotely similar of a type of sword he ever used in a canon game. In fact, HW is the first time he uses a remotely similar type of sword, which is a Zweihander. I might've spelled that wrong, but this style is way different from things like longswords, schimitars, and rapiers. The type of sword matters in how you use it).

I think we have to agree to disagree. I could go on for pages with rebuttal but my brother's wedding is in an hour and I have another one tommorow then jury duty on Monday and I just don't have time to continue this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There was a Moblin Ganon? And when you talk about the Blights, do you mean their powers would be used as moves possibly for BoTW Ganon?

Ganon was a Moblin first in design. Since Zelda 1. He's not a literal Moblin, technically speaking, but it's still the most accurate description, as "Pig Ganon" has been able to refer to the one in TP, who isn't bipedal and very different. Often is referred to as a Besst Ganon due to having no bipedal properties(and due to an error in the US TP game. Beast Ganon didn't properly exist as a name till Ganon's form in BOTW). Likewise, due to this factor, one could argue that Pig Ganon also refers to Puppet Ganon's first form, which just makes it too vague of a term.

Even some comics makes him look exactly like a traditional Moblin in his regular form.

I think we have to agree to disagree. I could go on for pages with rebuttal but my brother's wedding is in an hour and I have another one tommorow then jury duty on Monday and I just don't have time to continue this.

Legitimately hope you have fun~

 

[Pacack]

A large humanoid pig with a trident, summoning abilities, teleportation, and various forms of offensive magic? Yes, please.

 

[wildvine47]

How is not having Ridley in Smash at all better for his supporters than making him an annoying stage hazard? Getting a repeat of the Pyrosphere would definitely make his fans upset, but is throwing him out of the game entirely really a better solution?

It's better to acknowledge the fans in a way they don't want instead of just completely ignoring them.

There’s one way it’s a far better solution: it gives him a shot as a DLC character. Having such an overwhelming presence on Pyrosphere makes it impossible for Sakurai to pull an Alfonzo and have someone else appear in his place when Ridley is one of the playable fighters.

I’d much rather Ridley get only a trophy or a Smash 64 Zebes-style background appearance if it meant he had another chance.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Does anyone else here think that Hyrule Warriors might be the first spinoff title to receive a playable character? I've always sort of felt like it was possible. I'm playing Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition right now, and it's crazy how much love went into this game. There's tons of content spanning many eras of Zelda. On top of that, they've remade the game twice now, with new upgrades coming to each version.

When discussing Zelda characters, people have only focused on the mainline characters. I could see Lana or Linkle happening. Everyone has a hard time deciding who the best possible Zelda newcomer is due to the nature of characters who are not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. Lana and Linkle have both appeared in 3 titles which all have decent differences between them. Lana is one of the main characters, and Linkle now has her own full story as well. Both characters, especially Linkle, were well received by fans.

I understand thinking spinoff characters won't happen, but I'm saying this in the same thread that supports Waluigi and (sometimes) Daisy as characters to represent Mario spin offs. Nintendo clearly believes in the success of Hyrule Warriors, so why not have a character in Smash?