Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Fenriraga]

EDIT: The overlords have spoken.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While I appreciate Project M for what it is, I think we need to also realize that just because fans can make something look good doesn't mean it either doesn't isolate particular fans based on skill level, function properly based on balanced landing lag/combos while still staying true to the character, and other such parts of Smash.

When people use mods to show how a character could work, it makes me cringe. It's not that it isn't worth mentioning, but there's definitely a distinction between the way a mod works and the way game designers like Sakurai, who have done quite well up to this point so far, design games like Smash.

It may just be me, but almost every time I see somebody reference a mod to explain their point or share a gif, I then ask, "IS it balanced? Does it fit into the "for everyone" aspect? I say this because, frankly, Project M never seemed to be for "everybody". To me, it seemed like it was for people who wanted to play it competitively. I may be wrong, but that's what I took it as.

That isn't to say I think it's an abomination or something. I think it takes a lot of hard work and passion for fans to make a mod such as it, and I give them a lot of credit. There's no way I have the time or resources to do something like that myself.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The history of smash show that size and attributes doesn't matter on making costumes or clones.
Morton Koopa is clearly muck bigger than Larry Koopa. Iggy is much taller than Lemmy. Roy is much wider than Wendy. Yet, they were all resized to be Bowser Jr. like.
And look at Lucina. Her sword is supposed to be much larger. A two handed sword. Yet they made her a clone of Marth.

All eeveelutions have a similar body shape. They could be worked into costumes. Probably they wouldn't but that is not out of question.
I'd rather have a Eevee with her boring normal type moveset than an abomination with a gimmick that is not fair to her original appearance.

I know this may be a double post, but the other one was my Mod Post.

Anyway, they don't have the same exact model. They're actually fairly different models overall. The resizes on Bowser Jr.'s costumes all share identical models overall bar slight size differences. This is why it works. The Eeveelutions have very different models from Eevee, but they share similar ones among themselves, with small differences like tail designs.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That's not it's main type tho, greninja has like 2 dark moves lol

If we're gunna keep out Sylveon for Jigglypuff, who famously has no fairy moves in it's Moveset, we should do the same for Umbreon...I'm just being petty because Sylveon is my girl XD

 

[Zerp]

Whoops, ignore this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Since most likely my previous post was hard to see due to a new page, I'm going to say drop the Project M talk simply because it's turned into a flame-bait debate. Regardless of the points made, it already is going too far.

I'm only extending this since it's clear my post was easy to miss. I'd rather not give out infractions/warnings if I don't have to.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If we're gunna keep out Sylveon for Jigglypuff, who famously has no fairy moves in it's Moveset, we should do the same for Umbreon...I'm just being petty because Sylveon is my girl XD

Oh wait jiggs is normal/fairy isn't it lol, I thought it was full fairy. sylveon is fair game then I guess

 

[MopedOfJustice]

small differences like tail designs.

When we're talking about a character that has a standard quadruped build, the tail is one of the most important parts for choreographing attacks, especially since Eevee's only special attribute is evolving. Given that, it's really hard to imagine Flareon (fluff tail), Vaporeon (long fish tail), and Jolteon (no tail, just haunch poofs) all having the same moveset using it. This is to say nothing of adapting every special by grafting new elemental effects or the fact that it would make mechanics like Acid Armor impossible.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Edit: Unimportant. Ignore this ****.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When we're talking about a character that has a standard quadruped build, the tail is one of the most important parts for choreographing attacks, especially since Eevee's only special attribute is evolving. Given that, it's really hard to imagine Flareon (fluff tail), Vaporeon (long fish tail), and Jolteon (no tail, just haunch poofs) all having the same moveset using it. This is to say nothing of adapting every special by grafting new elemental effects or the fact that it would make mechanics like Acid Armor impossible.

I forgot Jolteon had no tail. >.<

 

[Chandeelure]

Eevee will probably not be playable, like, seriously guys.

Even in its Poke Ball Pokemon form, when you have to do one single thing, Eevee is still super boring lol.
Imagine that in an entire moveset.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ok eevee I see due to the Pokémon let's go leak

But how does gengar have ground for this?

- Popular competitive Pokemon
- Have a solid amount of merchandises, even I have a few of them
- Unique moveset potential; we haven't had a Ghost type Pokemon yet or even a Ghost playable fighter and can add some unique move pool of Ghost, Psychic, Dark, and Poison move pool

 

[Chandeelure]

- Popular competitive Pokemon
- Have a solid amount of merchandises, even I have a few of them
- Unique moveset potential; we haven't had a Ghost type Pokemon yet or even a Ghost playable fighter and can add some unique move pool of Ghost, Psychic, Dark, and Poison move pool

The real reason is because you really like Gengar, right?

Because there are a lot of Gen 1 Pokemon that are massively popular and would be very unique.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The real reason is because you really like Gengar, right?

Because there are a lot of Gen 1 Pokemon that are massively popular and would be very unique.

I'm biased a little bit but my bias towards Gengar not the entire reason. I do think that Gengar has a lot of move pool potential here and shouldn't just be called another "Gen 1" on the roster. Yes there's quite a bit of Gen 1 Pokemon who created the pathway for the Smash Bros fans to get them even in the competitive series like Pokken which Gengar is also apart of.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think there comes a point with the creativity for certain characters where it kinda...leaves the original concept of the character in question behind, no?

Like there's already been flaws pointed out about Eevee. Now, not that Poke Ball functions tell us much of anything, because lets face it, Charizard turned back and forth in Melee and just spit fire. But in Wii U/3DS, Eevee literally body slams you.

Now that isn't to say it couldn't made into a unique character. But think of it this way. If Eevee is going to have the unique allure taken from it and made to pretty much be "that popular OG 151 Eevee" as a 4-legged fighter, wouldn't Lycanroc turn out to be more unique in this case? It would be similar, but then have Rock typing and moves to go with it.

I may be rambling at this point, but this honestly seems like a mad scramble to predict a character prior to their potential reveal because of a game that's being announced probably in the next 30 days. That's literally the only reason there's a massive uptick in Eevee talk. To me, that's silly.

I'm no game designer, and I'm not about to tell people they're wrong about certain ideas because I said so. But you thought Ice Climbers stressed the 3DS? I know the Switch is strong, but imagine a character that loaded 7-8 different models every match. The slow down on that would be crazy. Then, lets consider if it's really worth creating unique effects and what not for 8 different skins. While Jr. has 8 different skins, they all have the same effect.

I just think there's too many variables for Eevee to be plausible. However, I can only imagine me saying this now and Eevee being revealed at E3. So I'll shut up.

 

[RosaPeach]

Dont mind me being real here.

 

[BlondeLombax]

What Pokemon are y'all rooting to be in Smash Switch?

Because Sun was my first foray into Pokemon (took me long enough to join my brothers!), I'm leaning more towards one of the starters or their evos. While Popplio was my choice and I'm slightly biased in favor of Primarina, Decidueye's vastly more likely.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

View attachment 144773

Too many characters/10

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

View attachment 144773

Heads-up you might need to add some text to this post.

 

[Starcutter]

As you probably haven't noticed, I haven't been here a lot. This has given me a lot of time for reflection on who I really want for smash switch without anyone affecting my bias.


I have now determined that Decidueye is one of my most wanted newcomers for smash switch, if not my most wanted. Definitely the most likely of my top 5. Reason being that he's cool. I just like the nerdy bird archer. I don't think he's "badass" or want him to fill some weird quota of having 3 starter pokemon. I just want him because I reflected on who I actually like based off design, and I've found that he's definitely one of my favorites.

Just saying, I'm totally playing Decidueye if he's in the game, something I'd reserve for only my absolutely most wanted characters.


On a more topical note, Eevee is possible but unlikely in my opinion. Definitely in the top 1% of pokemon possibilities.

 

[Murlough]

A lot of Smash fans have a really messed up idea of what Super Smash Bros is supposed to be, it's always just purely competitive.

Dude...you are really picking the wrong place to be in with an argument like that. I tried talking mostly competitive when I came into the thread and I was quickly let known that this isn't that kind of place.

Most Smash players are casuals. There are plenty of things that support (I can't hardcore prove it but I doubt thats necessary here) this fact. I'm also pretty sure most people in this very thread are casual smash players. I'm just tackling this part of your post because it is blatantly wrong.

Why do you feel that its wrong for people to take the game more seriously? You do realize that very many competitive players have fallen in love with the casual side and still play casually too right? One can like both.

Side note: "Always" is a loaded word that anyone attempting to make a legitimate argument should avoid. It almost always makes the argument false right there.

EDIT: I didn't see the mod post till now. I'm not really arguing about PM so I think its fine but figured I'd mention it. I'm mainly saying "always" is bad n' stuff.

EDIT: Scoliosis Jones thats exactly what I'm trying to say, yeah.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean, casual players can also play competitively, and competitive players can play casually.

They're not mutually exclusive, really.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

View attachment 144773

that awkward little chibi robo on the side is annoying me lmao

 

[Sonic Poke]

If we are giving biased opinions now, I shall say that if they are bringing back Kanto and Sakurai knew that, instead of creating a new fighter, just bring back the one that represents Kanto perfectly:

 

[MysticKnives]

I completely get the hype and love and why it's requested, but I honestly would prefer any of the other two starters of Gen 7 in Smash over Decidueye.

 

[Murlough]

If we are giving biased opinions now, I shall say that if they are bringing back Kanto and Sakurai knew that, instead of creating a new fighter, just bring back the one that represents Kanto perfectly:

We've been over him a billion times and the general consensus is that transformation characters suuuuck.

I'll play biased too but not Mimikyu cause thats too easy.

Daisy for Smash 5! Make her based on her abilities in Mario Strikers. She has the ability to use Crystals for her specials and completely unique standard attacks from Peach. (I don't care for the flower thing sorry. Its boring and the Crystal idea makes Daisy into a bad*** tomboy fighter)

 

[RosaPeach]

that awkward little chibi robo on the side is annoying me lmao

I couldn't help it I Chibi Robo in smash yes adding him in the roster between Spring Man is awkward but look at MVCI roster their roster is trash awkward.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I couldn't help it I Chibi Robo in smash yes adding him in the roster between Spring Man is awkward but look at MVCI roster their roster is trash awkward.

Please put more words in your roster post instead of an image only. Would also be neat if you cropped it more to remove some of that white space, but eh, that's not as important.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Ok, if we are really going biased, I can suggest a character that would surpass any level of bias you may be prepared for:
Team Rocket. Yes, Jessie, James, Meowth, Arbok and Victreebel.
I mean, they are perfect for Smash.
They have the entrance with a motto.
They have the Star KO. (It was based on them)
They have potential. Arbok and Victreebel have very unique body plans.
Meowth has popularity.
They've been in Pokemon Yellow.
They would be really funny to play with.

Of course it would be a mess. And kind of impossible to happen. But the idea of this post is not be realistic. Just daydream.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok, if we are really going biased, I can suggest a character that would surpass any level of bias you may be prepared for:
Team Rocket. Yes, Jessie, James, Meowth, Arbok and Victreebel.
I mean, they are perfect for Smash.
They have the entrance with a motto.
They have the Star KO. (It was based on them)
They have potential. Arbok and Victreebel have very unique body plans.
Meowth has popularity.
They've been in Pokemon Yellow.
They would be really funny to play with.

Of course it would be a mess. And kind of impossible to happen. But the idea of this post is not be realistic. Just daydream.

I think the amount of models might make it kind of annoying to deal with. It's always 3 or more at once, and they aren't small models. I'd say you could use Giovanni or a generic male/female(via costumes) grunt instead. Then you can still have those other Pokemon for attacks, but also avoid unnecessary models onscreen.

 

[APC99]

We've been over him a billion times and the general consensus is that transformations characters suuuuck.

I'll play biased too but not Mimikyu cause thats too easy.

Daisy for Smash 5! Make her based on her abilities in Mario Strikers. She has the ability to use Crystals for her specials and completely unique standard attacks from Peach. (I don't care for the flower thing sorry. Its boring and the Crystal idea makes Daisy into a bad*** tomboy fighter)

I'll accept Daisy using crystals when she uses them again outside of Strikers Charged.

The same game that gave Donkey Kong electrokinesis, Waluigi control over plant life, Bowser Jr. sound powers, and Diddy Kong zen-based energy attacks.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Ok, if we are really going biased, I can suggest a character that would surpass any level of bias you may be prepared for:
Team Rocket. Yes, Jessie, James, Meowth, Arbok and Victreebel.
I mean, they are perfect for Smash.
They have the entrance with a motto.
They have the Star KO. (It was based on them)
They have potential. Arbok and Victreebel have very unique body plans.
Meowth has popularity.
They've been in Pokemon Yellow.
They would be really funny to play with.

Of course it would be a mess. And kind of impossible to happen. But the idea of this post is not be realistic. Just daydream.

They also have 5 bodies between them
I agree that Arbok and Vitreebel both have interesting, unique anatomies, but the more significant takeaway is that you could make a Pokemon Smash clone with 50 characters and it'd be just as diverse as Smash, if not more. That's a game I'm kind of surprised hasn't been made yet, even by fans.

 

[Sigran101]

Aside from the obvious Pikachu, I'd be incredibly disappointed if any of Lucario, Charizard, Greninja or Mewtwo didn't make it back. Given all 4 are stupidly popular and Mewtwo was a pretty big success as DLC I can't see any leaving (I imagine Mewtwo's positive reception, and that of other DLC, will let those characters leapfrog some base roster Smash 4 characters in priority).

Currently I still think Generation 7 has a very good chance of getting playable representation in Smash, because those games did celebrate the 20th Anniversary and have been an enormous success, and work with the project plan timing extraordinarily well. I would most want to see Lycanroc and Mimikyu, but most popular Gen 7 choices would be fantastic. I can also see GO and, if Sakurai was made aware of it, Let's Go! Pikachu & Eevee bringing a new Gen 1 Pokemon into the fray. Eevee strikes me as a breakout possibility with the new leaks (being all but confirmed now), with a moveset revolving around using Helping Hand and calling its evolutions rather than the more crude evolving and devolving gimmick some suggest, and an obvious Final Smash of Extreme Evoboost.

However, this wide variety of high priority inclusions makes me feel like, if Eevee gets a big push from TPCi, Jigglypuff may get the short end of the stick this time and be bumped out for being low priority. I don't think Original 12 status actually means much in the grand scheme of things, and if Pokemon gets 2 newcomers I think her cut is a very genuine possibility.

Every time there's a new smash people say jigglypuff is going to get cut. She never does. Maybe the original 12 title doesn't mean anything but the perfect attendance does. She's made it in every one so far. There's no evidence that she was ever almost cut either. No reason to assume she is low priority.

 

[Sage of Ice]

"almost anyone from Zelda" is my bias pick. it's been my favorite game since i could hold a controller and it's had almost the same options since Melee i'm not gonna make everyone mad with my thoughts on toon link again, don't worry. my preference would be midna, but i'd enjoy ghirahim or beast ganon or tetra just as much. there's only three commonly-mentioned zelda characters that wouldn't excite me, honestly.

I'll accept Daisy using crystals when she uses them again outside of Strikers Charged.

The same game that gave Donkey Kong electrokinesis, Waluigi control over plant life, Bowser Jr. sound powers, and Diddy Kong zen-based energy attacks.

you say this facetiously, but if they turned DK into the Great Thunder Ape Of Doom i'd play the hell out of that. not that they should, but i'd have fun with it if they did.

 

[Murlough]

I'll accept Daisy using crystals when she uses them again outside of Strikers Charged.

The same game that gave Donkey Kong electrokinesis, Waluigi control over plant life, Bowser Jr. sound powers, and Diddy Kong zen-based energy attacks.

Hey! It was cool...

I know its non-canon and will never happen but its infinitely more interesting than the Peach clone most people seem to expect out of the character.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I think the amount of models might make it kind of annoying to deal with. It's always 3 or more at once, and they aren't small models. I'd say you could use Giovanni or a generic male/female(via costumes) grunt instead. Then you can still have those other Pokemon for attacks, but also avoid unnecessary models onscreen.

True. It would be hell. But the Grunt is boring and Giovanni, even though cool, has very poor pokemon choices.
Persian is fine, but the Nidos are too similar to each other, or to Rhydon, or to Kangaskhan. Dugtrio is odd, and Onix is awesome but too big.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True. It would be hell. But the Grunt is boring and Giovanni, even though cool, has very poor pokemon choices.
Persian is fine, but the Nidos are too similar to each other, or to Rhydon, or to Kangaskhan. Dugtrio is odd, and Onix is awesome but too big.

They're Trainers. They can use just about any Pokemon they want. The Grunts could also be divided among teams or use various colors. Even two based upon Jessie/James perhaps. Also, he has a Machamp and Kingler among his various Pokemon(ignoring Mewtwo as well) in the anime, so that's not an issue. It'd make just as much sense for him to use Meowth than anybody else. He is Meowth's official trainer, after all.

 

[Sonic Poke]

They're Trainers. They can use just about any Pokemon they want. The Grunts could also be divided among teams or use various colors. Even two based upon Jessie/James perhaps. Also, he has a Machamp and Kingler among his various Pokemon(ignoring Mewtwo as well) in the anime, so that's not an issue. It'd make just as much sense for him to use Meowth than anybody else. He is Meowth's official trainer, after all.

Yeah, he has much better choices if we consider his other apearences. He could be using Persian, Dragonite and Kangaskhan. Sandslash and Garchomp are also options.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, he has much better choices if we consider his other apearences. He could be using Persian, Dragonite and Kangaskhan. Sandslash and Garchomp are also options.

Gotta have Meowth though. It's kind of a necessity at this point, and may be one of its best chances yet to get in the game~

 

[Freduardo]

Ok, if we are really going biased, I can suggest a character that would surpass any level of bias you may be prepared for:
Team Rocket. Yes, Jessie, James, Meowth, Arbok and Victreebel.
I mean, they are perfect for Smash.
They have the entrance with a motto.
They have the Star KO. (It was based on them)
They have potential. Arbok and Victreebel have very unique body plans.
Meowth has popularity.
They've been in Pokemon Yellow.
They would be really funny to play with.

Of course it would be a mess. And kind of impossible to happen. But the idea of this post is not be realistic. Just daydream.

My team rocket idea was meowth on top of Koffing (rolling around on him like a ball) using Ekans as a whip.

It’s not going to happen either. But it would be fun.