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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Rockaphin

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Leaving:
Ike
Charizard
Ryu
If this were to actually happen, I'd probably cry myself to sleep every night.
But I'm hoping this is a signal that Smash 5 is going to be the bridge between the two. Not that I'm saying Smash 4 is bad at all, but I'd definitely welcome the speed of Melee back any day.
I've been playing Melee a lot recently, it's growing on me, but I definitely would rather keep the speed of Smash Wii U. Melee is definitely fun and interesting though, not that Smash Wii U isn't.
 

osby

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Leaving:
Ike
Charizard
Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Roy
Ryu
Cloud
Well, good luck about Ike, people are trying to send him off since Brawl. Charizard and Roy are still pretty popular. Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit might go but I doubt it, considering they weren't too much hassle to add to begin with. And... why would Ryu and Cloud leave while the others stay?
 

dada5714

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Wasn’t Smash 4’s invitational mostly Melee players?

Who NoA picks for their advertournament doesn’t really have anything to do with how Sakurai makes the game.
Well yeah they were, but considering Brawl didn't really get picked up very well in the "pro" scene, that was pretty obvious.

And I'm aware that that doesn't affect how Sakurai makes the game, but the fact that NoA's focus is on both sides of the scene rather than just going with Smash 4 players and some internet celebs is refreshing.

If this were to actually happen, I'd probably cry myself to sleep every night.

I've been playing Melee a lot recently, it's growing on me, but I definitely would rather keep the speed of Smash Wii U. Melee is definitely fun and interesting though, not that Smash Wii U isn't.
Smash Wii U is the right amount of balance of speed, honestly. I just love how crazy Melee can get, but I know i'm in the minority here.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Is anyone else a No More Heroes fan and is really hyped for the possibility of Travis Touchdown?

In the past I thought he was impossible but after Bayonetta, a character from a small mature third party franchise with only a few titles to it's name, got in that changed everything. What he lacks in the fan popularity Bayonetta used to get it he has the close friendship of Sakurai and Suda 51 (Snake & Kojima much?).

Source Gaming just did a rate that character video on him and it reignited my hope for him, at least as dlc.
 

osby

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Is anyone else a No More Heroes fan and is really hyped for the possibility of Travis Touchdown?

In the past I thought he was impossible but after Bayonetta, a character from a small mature third party franchise with only a few titles to it's name, got in that changed everything. What he lacks in the fan popularity Bayonetta used to get it he has the close friendship of Sakurai and Suda 51 (Snake & Kojima much?).

Source Gaming just did a rate that character video on him and it reignited my hope for him, at least as dlc.
I wouldn't oppose. Snake was still a pretty big name (well, at least Metal Gear was) but it's not like NMH is unknown.

I'm still really curious about how this game will manage 3rd parties. We're still a bit far from "scraping the bottom of the barrel" with guest fighters but every previous one was from a different genre. I wonder if they'll continue like that.
 

Murlough

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Please no, I want to be able to play the game.
From this comment I'm assuming you mean casually.

You can play Melee casually. I never even knew wavedashing existed when I played Melee. Asking for a game to have a lower skill ceiling doesn't mean players will be able to have more fun at a casual level.
 

osby

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From this comment I'm assuming you mean casually.

You can play Melee casually. I never even knew wavedashing existed when I played Melee. Asking for a game to have a lower skill ceiling doesn't mean players will be able to have more fun at a casual level.
No, I mean Melee's controls was super responsive and it's really hard to get used to it after you played the other games.
 

Megadoomer

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non-traditional third party characters like Snake.
Ryu's owned by the same company as Mega Man, while Cloud is easily one of the most iconic RPG protagonists of all time. More importantly, neither Capcom or Square-Enix have gone Konami-levels of crazy - I'm less certain about Cloud sticking around, but both of them are defining characters for their respective genres (fighting games and RPGs), and I don't see why Nintendo, Capcom, or Square-Enix would turn down the idea of them returning.

Is anyone else a No More Heroes fan and is really hyped for the possibility of Travis Touchdown?

In the past I thought he was impossible but after Bayonetta, a character from a small mature third party franchise with only a few titles to it's name, got in that changed everything. What he lacks in the fan popularity Bayonetta used to get it he has the close friendship of Sakurai and Suda 51 (Snake & Kojima much?).

Source Gaming just did a rate that character video on him and it reignited my hope for him, at least as dlc.
I would love to see Travis Touchdown make it in. While Bayonetta was something of an anomaly due to the Smash Ballot, she does show that Sakurai is willing to consider third party characters who don't have as long of a history as series like Pac-Man, Sonic, or Final Fantasy. Plus, Suda's been pretty persistent about wanting to see Travis in Smash (close to a decade now, if not over it), and I really hope that his persistence pays off - the NMH games are a ton of fun.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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No, I mean Melee's controls was super responsive and it's really hard to get used to it after you played the other games.
I've played Melee when I was like 6, and I could never do smash attacks, I was actually surprised when I found out there was a difference between tilts and smashes.

Years later I assumed it was because I was a dumb kid because smashes and tilts are extremely easy to differentiate between in later smash games. However I went back to Melee recently and I just can't play it! Everytime I try to do a smash I go for a tilt instead, I just can't get the timing right. I didn't realize how different the games were built (and how much of a filthy casual I really was :()
 

True Blue Warrior

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Ryu's owned by the same company as Mega Man, while Cloud is easily one of the most iconic RPG protagonists of all time. More importantly, neither Capcom or Square-Enix have gone Konami-levels of crazy - I'm less certain about Cloud sticking around, but both of them are defining characters for their respective genres (fighting games and RPGs), and I don't see why Nintendo, Capcom, or Square-Enix would turn down the idea of them returning.
The only way I don't see Cloud or Ryu coming back is if Sakurai don't want them for Smash Switch. That's it. Every other potential reason for why either of them could get cut makes no sense.
 
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SlickWylde

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I've played Melee when I was like 6, and I could never do smash attacks, I was actually surprised when I found out there was a difference between tilts and smashes.

Years later I assumed it was because I was a dumb kid because smashes and tilts are extremely easy to differentiate between in later smash games. However I went back to Melee recently and I just can't play it! Everytime I try to do a smash I go for a tilt instead, I just can't get the timing right. I didn't realize how different the games were built (and how much of a filthy casual I really was :()
I had a similar problem, but opposite. All we did was Smash attacks. When Brawl came out, we learned about tilts lol. I remember accidentally doing tilts in Melee (especially up tilt with Ganon) and being really confused lol.
 

blackghost

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personally i'd rather the gae have SOME of melee's techs. smash 4 competitive scene extended communitywas one of the worst experiences i've ever been part of and that came from the facts people didn't learn about the game and remained surface level in understanding offense, defense, neutral, and counter-play. to play smash 4 at a decent level you just needed a lower understanding of the game overall in comparison to brawl or melee. that allowed some very scrubby mindsets to fester in smash 4.
by having more depth in the game you can remove that toxicity. This is me speculating becuase if AT return it wouldn't be for the sake of competitive play (unless nintnedo has changed even more than i thought). Regardless i hope the speed and pace of the game goes up a little.
 

Garteam

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I'm slightly salty about Zero being invited again. He was obviously going to be invited and he's an extremely talented player, but his performance at the finals of the 2014 invitational left a bad taste in my mouth. I understand playing to win, but do you really need to play the clock in a tournament that had been a free-for-all with items on until the final match?

But making my E3 predictions:
Decidueye and/or Lycanroc - I always felt that we were going to get one of these two as the Gen 7 rep (Sorry Mimikyu), but Delzethin's roster has really warmed me up to the idea of having both these characters. Considering Sun/Moon were the biggest upcoming games in mid 2016 (when the roster was being decided) I could see Sakurai double dipping to get both these characters. Plus, Pokemon always generates hype.
Ridley - A character that would absolutely blow the minds of anyone moderately interested in who gets into Smash Bros. Everyone know the size debate and major gaming outlets such as Kotaku have even done pieces on everyone's favourite feral beast. Cross promoting Ridley with Metroid Prime 4 would be a huge boost to both games presence at E3 2018
Third Party Rep - This one is kinda a given: every time Smash 4 was at E3 a new third party was shown off. In 2013, it was Mega Man. In 2014, it was Pac-man. In 2015, it was Ryu. My personal guess is Ray-Man, but I could also see Heihachi, Erdrick or Eight (from Dragon Quest), or Crash Bandicoot
except we're obviously getting Michael Scott at E3
 
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osby

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Ridley - A character that would absolutely blow the minds of anyone moderately interested in who gets into Smash Bros. Everyone know the size debate and major gaming outlets such as Kotaku have even done pieces on everyone's favourite feral beast. Cross promoting Ridley with Metroid Prime 4 would be a huge boost to both games presence at E3 2018.
So he'll be in because they said they couldn't include him?
 

Megadoomer

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So he'll be in because they said they couldn't include him?
It's not unheard of - Villager (who was seen as too peaceful), Pac-Man (Sakurai wasn't sure how he could work), and Miis (concerns about bullying) were rejected for one reason or another only to be added in later.
 

Garteam

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So he'll be in because they said they couldn't include him?
Well, Sakurai's opinions often change. Just look at Villager, Miis, and Pac-man: all three of them were rejected Brawl characters that made it into Smash 4 because Sakurai rethought the way they work. Sakurai loves to revisit ideas he couldn't previously get off the ground, such as Final Smashes and 8-Player Smash. Ridley's chances at being in Smash Switch come down to a coin flip: if Sakurai still thinks he's too big, he's not getting in. Likewise, if Sakurai has changed his mind about Ridley's size, he's almost certainly getting in due to the fact he has everything else going for (popularity, relevance to his home series, moveset potential, etc.).
 

Hinata

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Damn, not even in a promo video for a tournament can they give us even a glimpse of how this game looks. They are determined to hide this **** until E3.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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While I know that the invitational tournament rules are beyond anyone's control, I feel like the following should be the rules...
  • All tournament matches would be 1-on-1.
  • 5 minutes per match, with each player starting with 3 lives.
  • Best of 3 series; win 2 matches, and you'll advance to the next round.
  • At the end of the tournament, the four semifinalists will face each other in a 4-player free-for-all tourney. The first player to win 3 matches will win the 4-player free-for-all.
 
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osby

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Well, Sakurai's opinions often change. Just look at Villager, Miis, and Pac-man: all three of them were rejected Brawl characters that made it into Smash 4 because Sakurai rethought the way they work. Sakurai loves to revisit ideas he couldn't previously get off the ground, such as Final Smashes and 8-Player Smash. Ridley's chances at being in Smash Switch come down to a coin flip: if Sakurai still thinks he's too big, he's not getting in. Likewise, if Sakurai has changed his mind about Ridley's size, he's almost certainly getting in due to the fact he has everything else going for (popularity, relevance to his home series, moveset potential, etc.).
I don't think it's really similar situation to previous ones. It's a matter of whether Ridley would still be Ridley with Ganondorf's size. Regardless of what he thinks of a character, if they require all platforms at the hand to be recalculated, it's not really an idea worth to revisit.
 

Pazzo.

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With 8 players, they might do round-robin for 4 vs. 4., 8 Player Smash, 2 vs. 2, then 1 vs. 1.
 

Garteam

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I don't think it's really similar situation to previous ones. It's a matter of whether Ridley would still be Ridley with Ganondorf's size. Regardless of what he thinks of a character, if they require all platforms at the hand to be recalculated, it's not really an idea worth to revisit.
Whether Ridley would still be Ridley at Ganondorf's size has been always been the debate. Of course Ridley can be shrunk down physically, the debate then becomes if this shrunk-down Ridley is still representative of Ridley as he appears in Metroid.

I personally believe a shrunk down Ridley is still Ridley. Unlike Kraid, Ridley's size was never an important aspect to his character and just served to make him an easier target to hit in the air. Ridley's more important characteristics were his feral fighting style, his flight, and his relationship to Samus. Likewise, Sakurai disagree when asked this question in 2014, he felt that Ridley's size serves too much of a purpose to his character. Keep in mind, this was 4 years ago, things can change and Sakurai's opinion on Ridley is no exception. Whether or not Ridley is in the game depends solely on how Sakurai views the Ridley question now.
 
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I am just curious why Hungrybox did not make it.
Was it because he was just... not chosen?
Either way, it is looking hype.
 

osby

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Whether Ridley would still be Ridley at Ganondorf's size has been always been the debate. Of course Ridley can be shrunk down physically, the debate then becomes if this shrunk-down Ridley is still representative of Ridley as he appears in Metroid.

I personally believe a shrunk down Ridley is still Ridley. Unlike Kraid, Ridley's size was never an important aspect to his character and just served to make him an easier target to hit in the air. Ridley's more important characteristics were his feral fighting style, his flight, and his relationship to Samus. Likewise, Sakurai disagree when asked this question in 2014, he felt that Ridley's size serves too much of a purpose to his character. Keep in mind, this was 4 years ago, things can change and Sakurai's opinion on Ridley is no exception. Whether or not Ridley is in the game depends solely on how Sakurai views the Ridley question now.
It's a matter of proportion. You can scale down a bulky character and it would still look big. A character scrawny as Ridley would look funny at that size.

But I'm not a Ridley fan. If his fans have no problem with a slow Ridley with only 11/10 of Samus's height, then I don't, too.
 

Nekoo

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Uh- I just realized that ZeRo got invited by Square-Enix to play KHIII in exclusivity earlier.
Now invited in Smash Invitational Too-
He is also someone who cheer for Sora in Smash Switch

Probably just a coincidence- but it's a nice one to pick up-
 

MopedOfJustice

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I am just curious why Hungrybox did not make it.
Was it because he was just... not chosen?
Either way, it is looking hype.
Considering he's gotten on a soapbox against Nintendo publicly for not supporting Melee as much as he wants, to say nothing of the thing with Reggie, I'm really not surprised.
 
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Considering he's gotten on a soapbox against Nintendo publicly for not supporting Melee as much as he wants, to say nothing of the thing with Reggie, I'm really not surprised.
Yes, but Nintendo still likes him. Like remember the time that Reggie and Hungrybox vs'd each other?
 

BluePikmin11

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Uh- I just realized that ZeRo got invited by Square-Enix to play KHIII in exclusivity earlier.
Now invited in Smash Invitational Too-
He is also someone who cheer for Sora in Smash Switch

Probably just a coincidence- but it's a nice one to pick up-
ZeRo is just a really lucky dude. I wish I could get those opportunities, but I am not much of a pro in Smash. :L
 

Nekoo

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ZeRo is just a really lucky dude. I wish I could get those opportunities, but I am not much of a pro in Smash. :L
Well yeah- What I find it weird is that- out of the bunch of people who were choosen- most of them are people in the KH community or Game journalist- ZeRo stick out weirdly with the bunch-
 
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Garteam

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It's a matter of proportion. You can scale down a bulky character and it would still look big. A character scrawny as Ridley would look funny at that size.

But I'm not a Ridley fan. If his fans have no problem with a slow Ridley with only 11/10 of Samus's height, then I don't, too.
Any artist worth their salt could make a custom Ridley design that is shrunk down but still skinny. Just because Ridley's height is decreased doesn't mean you need to decrease the weight at the exact same rate. Just look at the Smashified Ridley, he's shrunken down and skinny without looking awkward.

In regards to Ridley being slow, Ridley has always been kinda sluggish on the ground, so him having less land mobility wouldn't bother me. Additionally, Ridley's scale to Samus has been constantly changing. In Super Metroid, he's only double her height, while in Metroid Prime 3 he can swallow her whole. As long as Ridley is taller than Samus, I doubt fans will mind that much, especially if he keeps his hunched over appearance that he usually has on the ground.
 
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osby

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Any artist worth their salt could make a custom Ridley design that is shrunk down but still skinny. Just because Ridley's height is decreased doesn't mean you need to decrease the weight at the exact same rate. Just look at the Smashified Ridley, he's shrunken down and skinny without looking awkward.

In regards to Ridley being slow, Ridley has always been kinda sluggish on the ground, so him having more land mobility wouldn't bother me. Additionally, Ridley's scale to Samus has been constantly changing. In Super Metroid, he's only double her height, while in Metroid Prime 3 he can swallow her whole. As long as Ridley is taller than Samus, I doubt fans will mind that much, especially if he keeps his hunched over appearance that he usually has on the ground.
Smashified also don't need permission from anyone worked on Metroid but okay, we can assume he can be proper size.

I don't have a problem with him being slow on ground, but he needs to be quick in air and it might be broken to have a character with a high air mobility and a large frame. But it's not like we never had broken characters so whatever.
 

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鉄腕
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Any thoughts on there being a new type(s) of Mii Fighters introduced for the game? The Mii Fighters aren't terribly popular, but I doubt they'll be going away. I think it's a potential newcomer most people are sleeping on, especially with Miitopia having come out.
 

Garteam

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Smashified also don't need permission from anyone worked on Metroid but okay, we can assume he can be proper size.

I don't have a problem with him being slow on ground, but he needs to be quick in air and it might be broken to have a character with a high air mobility and a large frame. But it's not like we never had broken characters so whatever.
It's very unlikely anyone in Nintendo really puts up a fight about having their character in Smash. It's third parties that are the issue, and even then most companies that don't rhyme with "Bonami" play ball fairly easily.

Also, Ridley can be balanced around having a large frame and strong air mobility by making him rather light. If anything having a large frame in Smash is often to a character's detriment competitively, as have a larger hurtbox and can thusly be punished.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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To the guy that makes fun of me for telling that Mango will never EVER enter the invitational...


Mango is now there and now, I will take that last laugh...HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA
... I'm flattered that my comment meant so much to you that you let it harm you emotionally, but I never said I didn't want Mango there, nor did I make fun of you... I, just like basically everyone else, didn't see Mango being invited to a family-friendly Nintendo event. I'm absolutely baffled as to how you felt attacked or made fun of by that comment...
 

LancerStaff

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... I'm flattered that my comment meant so much to you that you let it harm you emotionally, but I never said I didn't want Mango there, nor did I make fun of you... I, just like basically everyone else, didn't see Mango being invited to a family-friendly Nintendo event. I'm absolutely baffled as to how you felt attacked or made fun of by that comment...
Better get used to it man. It’s hard to go a day without somebody pulling this.
 

BluePikmin11

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Any thoughts on there being a new type(s) of Mii Fighters introduced for the game? The Mii Fighters aren't terribly popular, but I doubt they'll be going away. I think it's a potential newcomer most people are sleeping on, especially with Miitopia having come out.
I think we will get a Mii Mage class at best, but that is about it to fill in the basic fighter archetypes. I am seriously thinking about putting Mii Mage in my prediction roster.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Better get used to it man. It’s hard to go a day without somebody pulling this.
I mean I'm used to it as far as normal cases go, but if you go look at the comment he quoted... I can't even begin to figure out where the attack/mocking was. :rolleyes: We'll find anything to get triggered, even if we have to make it up, I guess.
 
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