Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Then she has a pointless opinion that isn't logical.

I warned it would be edited. Not necessarily changes to their attributes but small differences in the moves.

Also, does anybody else notice half the people in this thread are ignoring me, treating me like a troll, or attacking me despite my usually correct, original, and different opinion?

Seriously don't understand how you manage to call my opinion pointless while saying you're being attacked (I have not seen this at all) in the same post...

Also I don't think Isabelle, K.K Slider or Tom Nook would work as fighters, even if they did utilize random things from the games that they have some correlation with, mechanically it would either already function for Villager (maybe have Mayor as a new character instead?) or have to be made up. Moves being made up on their own aren't a problem, but it would still feel out of place to have these characters that already exist on stages, moves, and an assist trophy become characters.

I am an Animal Crossing fan btw. I run a Steam group centered around the game, draw fan art, have played all of them including the N64 one, (used to even run a blog all about it) and have been sinking most of my time recently into the Pocket Camp via an Australian .APK. It's not that I don't think Animal Crossing doesn't deserve another character, I just can't think of anyone too fitting and I think stages/assits/etc; are more up it's alley at the moment.

As far as Isabelle specifically goes (I know I already went over the topic a little earlier in the post, but I want to be more specific with her), I don't think she would be a good character. She exists purely to assist whoever the main character in the game is and I think an assist trophy is the perfect spot for her. I believe I remember Sakurai saying he originally didn't put Villager in Brawl because they were too much of a pacifist and nonviolent, now imagine what he'd think about Isabelle. Coming from someone who has Isabelle as one of their favorite characters in any fiction, ever.

 

[Deleted member]

L LunchmanJ I don't care for a second AC character personally. I'm not a fan of the series. And it's not "underrepped" just because it has only one character.
You should stop wondering why people have different opinion than you, and you should definetely stop insulting others' opinions.

 

[Luminario]

Seriously don't understand how you manage to call my opinion pointless while saying you're being attacked (I have not seen this at all) in the same post...

Also I don't think Isabelle, K.K Slider or Tom Nook would work as fighters, even if they did utilize random things from the games that they have some correlation with, mechanically it would either already function for Villager (maybe have Mayor as a new character instead?) or have to be made up. Moves being made up on their own aren't a problem, but it would still feel out of place to have these characters that already exist on stages, moves, and an assist trophy become characters.

I am an Animal Crossing fan btw. I run a Steam group centered around the game, draw fan art, have played all of them including the N64 one, (used to even run a blog all about it) and have been sinking most of my time recently into the Pocket Camp via an Australian .APK. It's not that I don't think Animal Crossing doesn't deserve another character, I just can't think of anyone too fitting and I think stages/assits/etc; are more up it's alley at the moment.

As far as Isabelle specifically goes (I know I already went over the topic a little earlier in the post, but I want to be more specific with her), I don't think she would be a good character. She exists purely to assist whoever the main character in the game is and I think an assist trophy is the perfect spot for her. I believe I remember Sakurai saying he originally didn't put Villager in Brawl because they were too much of a pacifist and nonviolent, now imagine what he'd think about Isabelle. Coming from someone who has Isabelle as one of their favorite characters in any fiction, ever.

I don't understand your thought process here. Firstly, Little Mac and Palutena are perfect examples of characters upgraded from ATs and FSs to fully playable characters so that's unlikely to affect anyone's chances. Secondly, Villager's moveset only covers things they actively do themselves (barring side and up B). Constructing PDPs is Isabelle's job, the Nooks are who you go to for furniture related stuff, and while Villager can interact with instruments in their home, KK is the musician who plays the songs for the music players and has a second job of DJ. All 3 characters have clearly defined roles that can carry over to Smash in ways that simply wouldn't fit Villager so well.

On to the topic of Isabelle herself, simply assisting the main character doesn't mean they should be forever relegated to AT. Zelda and Sheik are a good example of a character who purely assisted in their own games yet became playable. She's also in Amiibo Festival and Mario Kart, so it's not like she's never been playable. The non-violent argument could be seen as a strike against her inclusion, but good counters to this are 1) Sakurai has gone back on his word before by adding Villager even after saying he didn't want to add them because of their non-violent source game (plus he added WFT, who's source game is even more non-violent) and 2) this rule can easily be circumvented by making her an 'accidental fighter'. Think about it, Isabelle is just going about her day making PDPs, blowing party poppers and having fun, and whoever's in the way is just in the way; it's not her fault that an opponent got shot into the sky because a Topiary sprouted in front of her, she was just doing her job. Isabelle also seems pretty relaxed about throwing bob-ombs around in Mario Kart, so it's not like the equally whimsical nature of Smash should be that different.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My bigger issue is I don't want to beat up Isabelle. But yeah, I could get behind her being an apologetic fighter, like Colette in Tales of Symphonia.

Resetti's my personal secondary choice, that said.

 

[N3ON]

I think the only real problem standing in the way of another AC character, probably Isabelle, is whether Sakurai views her as a possible combatant or too much of a pacifist as a character for Smash, given she shows basically no fighting precedent or aptitude, leading him to never give her serious consideration. And while the same could be said to an extent about the Villager, that character's representation was much more variable whereas Isabelle is rather defined... given she's not an avatar. Personally I think it's possible and that she definitely has the popularity and prominence by now, but you never know with Sakurai. If there is any character I could see another Toad situation with (and even with that we're guessing), it'd probably be her.

And as for other AC characters I guess Resetti makes the most sense as far as a "fighter" goes, but his role seems to be diminishing and apparently he scares kids or something... so... I'm not counting on it. And then there's that sonuvabich Tom Nook... though I could see Sakurai not seriously considering him as a fighter either, for similar reasons to Isabelle. Him being in a FS doesn't mean anything though, ask Palutena. Tbh imo it's Isabelle or no one.

But yeah. The series is definitely big and successful enough with enough other notable faces for another character. Though, while I really dig the series itself, I'm not dying for another AC character in Smash. Probably because the characters don't naturally lend themselves to the roster (though obv they can work), and that the Villager has a pretty encompassing moveset for the series as is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's kind of like Pikmin really.

Olimar is the biggest face of the series and while there are other Pikmin characters like Louie and Alph that are fun, popular and could be included...

Olimar's moveset encompasses Pikmin so well that anything Alph or Louie could bring just feels lackluster in comparison.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isabelle has a lot of popularity, but I also don't think of her as a fighter like at all. All I know is that before Villager was revealed, Tom Nook was the number one pick for a Animal Crossing character.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Seriously don't understand how you manage to call my opinion pointless while saying you're being attacked (I have not seen this at all) in the same post...

Also I don't think Isabelle, K.K Slider or Tom Nook would work as fighters, even if they did utilize random things from the games that they have some correlation with, mechanically it would either already function for Villager (maybe have Mayor as a new character instead?) or have to be made up. Moves being made up on their own aren't a problem, but it would still feel out of place to have these characters that already exist on stages, moves, and an assist trophy become characters.

I am an Animal Crossing fan btw. I run a Steam group centered around the game, draw fan art, have played all of them including the N64 one, (used to even run a blog all about it) and have been sinking most of my time recently into the Pocket Camp via an Australian .APK. It's not that I don't think Animal Crossing doesn't deserve another character, I just can't think of anyone too fitting and I think stages/assits/etc; are more up it's alley at the moment.

As far as Isabelle specifically goes (I know I already went over the topic a little earlier in the post, but I want to be more specific with her), I don't think she would be a good character. She exists purely to assist whoever the main character in the game is and I think an assist trophy is the perfect spot for her. I believe I remember Sakurai saying he originally didn't put Villager in Brawl because they were too much of a pacifist and nonviolent, now imagine what he'd think about Isabelle. Coming from someone who has Isabelle as one of their favorite characters in any fiction, ever.

People are calling me a troll. How is that not offensive? I'm sorry, I lashed out on you.

 

[Diddy Kong]

People will always call you a troll if you post something unpopular and are adamant about it around these parts. I don't really agree with you as well, but as long as you can put up a decent arguement I will listen.

Then again, I'm the guy that wanted Impa to replace Sheik in Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

People are calling me a troll. How is that not offensive? I'm sorry, I lashed out on you.

I never called you a troll. Despite not agreeing with you on many things, I think you make decent points sometimes, and I can get behind wanting to add as many "All-Stars" as possible.

Also, I admit I contradict myself on many occasions and try to justify my "goofs" to myself with half-assed excuses.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People are calling me a troll. How is that not offensive? I'm sorry, I lashed out on you.

You said your opinion was correct whereas others have incorrect opinions a while ago. That alone gives you that reputation

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, there's always two sides to a story I see.

 

[LunchmanJ]

You said your opinion was correct whereas others have incorrect opinions a while ago. That alone gives you that reputation

I never said others were wrong. Many contradicting opinions can be right or wrong together.

Here's a question for everyone. There any notable Retro characters left to be included? I think Nintendo Land has lost its relevance and Virtual Console releases aren't special unless they sell well, so Takamaru isn't as important

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a question for everyone. There any notable Retro characters left to be included? I think Nintendo Land has lost its relevance and Virtual Console releases aren't special, so Takamaru isn't as important

I dunno, maybe Excite Biker?
As far as I'm concerned, it's one of the most recognizable games on the NES, and according to Wikipedia, it's one of the best-selling games on the system as well (Though it's Wikipedia so IDK if you should take their word for it).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Takamaru would be a nice one. But if I had to choose a samurai character, I rather pick Lyn or Hyrule Warriors' Impa.

I think Balloon Fighter would be a real nice addition due to it being Iwata's creation. Plus he was considered for Melee, but Sakurai picked Ice Climbers instead cause the Balloon Fighter wouldn't be able to fight if his balloon popped. Also I think Villager's Up B has to be changed before it happens.

DK Jr. is also sort of noticable, but you know he's already present with Donkey Kong, who's DK Jr., or his son... At the very least, Donkey Kong appearing togheter with DK Jr. could be confusing cause Donkey Kong isn't OG Arcade Donkey Kong, that's Cranky Kong. However, I think it could be cool to have DK, Cranky and DK Jr. all in the same game. But I absolutely need Donkey Kong COUNTRY characters before anything Arcade-related gets in.

Mach Rider is a cute option I supported but isn't probably as marginable as I thought. I have him on my suspect list to replace Ganondorf's heavy weight Captain Falcon semi-clone style, but somewhat faster and far less powerful. I dunno. Seems likelier than an actual F-Zero character.

Errr what else is left? I dunno. I think I prefer Balloon Fighter out of all these options tbh.

 

[Luminario]

I never said others were wrong. Many contradicting opinions can be right or wrong together.

Here's a question for everyone. There any notable Retro characters left to be included? I think Nintendo Land has lost its relevance and Virtual Console releases aren't special unless they sell well, so Takamaru isn't as important

I'm really not fond of him, but I'd say Takamaru is still pretty high as a retro pick. He's both an AT and a Mii costume, and Sakurai has gone on record to say he did consider him as a fighter. Smash just can't get enough bland men with swords it seems.
Apart from what others have mentioned, Lip is another good choice, though how likely she is is anyone's guess.
I guess Bubbles from Clu Clu Land could be there somewhere, though in regards to moveset I have absolutely no idea how that'll work.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I honestly think the next Retro character, since we're out of choices as big as R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Game and Watch should just be the most appealing and marketable one, so i just decided to go with Skapon from Joy Mech Fight. Not only is he from Nintendo's first fighting game, he would be a nice companion to Mega Man as he's a Mega man ripoff and his moves would be fundamentally unique, as his limbs are separated from his body.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly think the next Retro character, since we're out of choices as big as R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Game and Watch should just be the most appealing and marketable one, so i just decided to go with Skapon from Joy Mech Fight. Not only is he from Nintendo's first fighting game, he would be a nice companion to Mega Man as he's a Mega man ripoff and his moves would be fundamentally unique, as his limbs are separated from his body.

...Why did you even ask this question at the first place if you weren't going to listen to any of the suggestions to begin with?

 

[LunchmanJ]

...Why did you even ask this question at the first place if you weren't going to listen to any of the suggestions to begin with?

Mine is also a suggestion.

EDIT: It could be wrong because there might be a character as big as R.O.B. and Duck Hunt that I don't know about. Also, I posted to start a discussion not a flame war.

EDIT: Balloon Fighter also goes with my logic as an appealing choice as a tribute to Iwata.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never said others were wrong. Many contradicting opinions can be right or wrong together.

Here's a question for everyone. There any notable Retro characters left to be included? I think Nintendo Land has lost its relevance and Virtual Console releases aren't special unless they sell well, so Takamaru isn't as important

By saying your opinion is correct, then you're undeniably implying other are wrong. Also the VC release was after Smash development. Also why the hell would Sulapon marketable? He has the same issues as Takamaru yet Takamaru's popular enough to have been considered for the previous game

 

[Staarih]

Takamaru still seems like a plausible retro option to me. They’re slowly building up his recognizability right from Nintendo Land and VC releases and Smash of course. I can see it happening, and want to as well.

A revival of Murasame Castle would be the cherry on top of the cake. Though I guess at that point Takamaru would be less retro haha.

 

[LunchmanJ]

By saying your opinion is correct, then you're undeniably implying other are wrong. Also the VC release was after Smash development. Also why the hell would Sulapon marketable? He has the same issues as Takamaru yet Takamaru's popular enough to have been considered for the previous game

I can think clearly now.

I meant to say logic instead of opinion. As Nintendo's first fighting game rep, companion to Mega Man, unique moveset, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I can think clearly now.

I meant to say logic instead of opinion. As Nintendo's first fighting game rep, companion to Mega Man, unique moveset, etc.

But a single Japan exclusive game. Why was Takamaru not in Smash again? Lack of Western releases

 

[LunchmanJ]

But a single Japan exclusive game. Why was Takamaru not in Smash again? Lack of Western releases

Like Roy and Marth, Skapon can be appealing without actually being known. All you need is a little introducting in the trailer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Smash Switch comes to light somewhere near 2020, K.Rool will be old skool enough to consider retro

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Yay! Retro Discussion!

Muddy Mole! Muddy Mole! Muddy Mole!

Also, Great Puma

 

[UserKev]

As far as a new Zelda rep, I'm still voting for Ghirahim. Ganondorf is such a.. his design is boring to me. Ganondorf isn't the character I want to run into when I select a Zelda villain anymore.

That's not to say Kid Ganondorf wouldn't be sick.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I think Zelda has no good truly new reps. It's Toon Zelda, Pig Ganon to replace Dorf, and then a bunch of one offs or dead characters. Impa, Tetra, and Tingle are overrated in terms of importance. Impa can't be in her main form (an old lady), Tetra is only important in Wind Waker and cameos in the rest, and Tingle is only important if you count his Japan-only games, which shouldn't count because most smashers are in the west. I guess the best one offs are Midna and Skull Kid because their games have remakes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa's main form isn't the old lady. Her first appearance in the games was in Ocarina of Time, am certain you remember how she looked there. If Impa wasn't workable, then how was she Link's very first ally in Hyrule Warriors?

 

[LunchmanJ]

Impa's main form isn't the old lady. Her first appearance in the games was in Ocarina of Time, am certain you remember how she looked there. If Impa wasn't workable, then how was she Link's very first ally in Hyrule Warriors?

True. Then who should get in first? Toon Zelda or Impa? There really isn't space for both given all the All Stars that outclass them both. Toon Zelda is truly radically different than normal Zelda, as she's a pirate who isn't treated as Zelda until the end or a ghost in another, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Like Roy and Marth, Skapon can be appealing without actually being known. All you need is a little introducting in the trailer.

Except Fire Emblem wasn't a random one off game back then. Roy was only added as a cheap to make clone, yet Marth already appeared in 2 games at that point and was highly requested. Plus that was a decade ago

 

[Tailisu10]

I don't know how this would appeal to peeps, but I want them to create original incarnations of the main Zelda cast, like Hyrule Warriors, that are amalgamation of various appearances in the series. That way, I don't think they need to worry about their appearances and portrayals in recent games.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I don't know how this would appeal to peeps, but I want them to create original incarnations of the main Zelda cast, like Hyrule Warriors, that are amalgamation of various appearances in the series. That way, I don't think they need to worry about their appearances and portrayals in recent games.

I would want to see this too, but Link can't seem both young and adult at the same time, especially not young to the extent of Toon Link, so the Toon line deserves representation.

EDIT: Roy and Marth weren't known worldwide and every character has their problems Super Rogue Gwen. Even Mario isn't playable in every Mario game. Also, we're talking Retro characters, and their whole deal is that they obscure and irrelevant.

 

[Tailisu10]

I would want to see this too, but Link can't seem both young and adult at the same time, especially not young to the extent of Toon Link, so the Toon line deserves representation.

Didn't mean to say that Toon Link would be cut/integrated into regular Link. He's already a recurring design, an original one wouldn't be needed at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

True. Then who should get in first? Toon Zelda or Impa? There really isn't space for both given all the All Stars that outclass them both. Toon Zelda is truly radically different than normal Zelda, as she's a pirate who isn't treated as Zelda until the end or a ghost in another, etc.

Toon Zelda? Why would you want 3 characters who are Zelda on the roster? I thought that seperating Zelda and Sheik was already too big of a mess. Cause now the roster is literally Link, Zelda, Zelda's disguise in that one critically aclaimed game from the N64 (kind reminder / slap in the face that no other character from the N64 has ANY sort of chance whatsoever har har har har) , Ganondorf who is only half trying, and cartoonish Link with a bigger head than usual. Now sure, let's add cartoonish Zelda with a bigger head than usual.

It has came down to Impa or bust. Nobody wanna bust. So it's Impa.

There.

 

[Luminario]

Toon Zelda? Why would you want 3 characters who are Zelda on the roster? I thought that seperating Zelda and Sheik was already too big of a mess. Cause now the roster is literally Link, Zelda, Zelda's disguise in that one critically aclaimed game from the N64 (kind reminder / slap in the face that no other character from the N64 has ANY sort of chance whatsoever har har har har) , Ganondorf who is only half trying, and cartoonish Link with a bigger head than usual. Now sure, let's add cartoonish Zelda with a bigger head than usual.

It has came down to Impa or bust. Nobody wanna bust. So it's Impa.

There.

Not only would we get Toon Zelda, but we'd get a separate Tetra character too

After finally getting and playing through the entirety of Breath of the Wild I'm actually hoping that my girl Mipha gets in. Out of all the Champions she has the strongest connection to Link, she seems to be the most popular Champion herself, and could channel Vah Rutah's abilities to get a nice water/ice bending moveset along with her trident.

 

[LunchmanJ]

What Pokemon is the most marketed/notable after the seven we have in Smash? I'm not talking only relevant characters like Decidueye because they won't last but rather a well known Pokemon whose popularity will last forever.

 

[Deleted member]

What Pokemon is the most marketed/notable after the seven we have in Smash? I'm not talking only relevant characters like Decidueye because they won't last but rather a well known Pokemon whose popularity will last forever.

I guess Meowth thanks to the anime.
But really you should just add Decidueye he's the best

 

[A Distant Demon]

It's kind of like Pikmin really.

Olimar is the biggest face of the series and while there are other Pikmin characters like Louie and Alph that are fun, popular and could be included...

Olimar's moveset encompasses Pikmin so well that anything Alph or Louie could bring just feels lackluster in comparison.

I've tried to figure out a way to put my thoughts into cpntext on Isabelle/AC for a while but never 100% knew how to express it. This is pretty much perfect. Especially this part

Olimar's moveset encompasses Pikmin so well that anything Alph or Louie could bring just feels lackluster in comparison.

 

[Aurane]

If we get an SM Pokémon as a playable, as unlikely as it is, my top five would be, from greatest to least:

1. Alolan Raichu
2. Decidueye
3. Kartana
4. Tsareena
5. Alolan Marowak