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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Idon

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Confused. They're the same character, so what's the point? It's not like any of Ridley's animations would be out of character for Meta Ridley. It'd be kind of like making RD Ike and echo fighter of PoR Ike just because he's more buff.
If Dr. Mario can be more unique than Dark Samus, I don't even know what to believe.
 

WaxPython

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Cuz they don't exactly do...

Anything.
I remember playing them in mario tennis on GameCube they were very good technical type tennis players.

They had cool techniques in that game no reason it can't translate well in smash considering fighters like villager and Wii fit trainer are in it.

Now I'm not saying they should use sporting equipment but if a tennis game can give them techniques smash devs surely can too.
 

WingedSupernova

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The only Yoshi villain that's not already playable that would make sense is Kamek, but that guy isn't even playable in Mario Kart yet :dazwa:
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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@PushDustIn or Venus of the Desert Bloom Venus of the Desert Bloom or anyone with an extensive knowledge of Japanese really.

In the Japanese direct, when Sakurai is talking about the 103 stages, how much finality is in the wording used? Is it vague or does it declare with certainty that 103 is the final number of stages?
I get the idea that currently the number is at 103. Not sure though as I didn’t watch that entire segment to get the general idea yet.
 

CrusherMania1592

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Do you guys think Cross Series Echoes could or should happen? Personally I don't think they will, but I definitely want them.
I think it should happen. I mean...we had Ganondorf as a Falcon clone. Blaziken would be a good cross series echo due to it's move pool of Blaze Kick, Sky Uppercut, Fire Punch, etc

Since we got an Echo of a clone, let's try Black Shadow with Ganondorf
 

Baskerville

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I believe this meme goes for all of us in the fandom.

I'm rooting for you, Shantae, and I always will be.
This rings true.

Xenoblade 2 is a great game, and I like Rex & Pyra a lot but discussion about either of them just turns into the same old flame war.
 

Shroob

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I get the idea that currently the number is at 103. Not sure though as I didn’t watch that entire segment to get the general idea yet.
Honestly, the sooner we can snuff out this misconception, the better.


The whole "But the Direct said", after we've had countless times of things getting lost in translation....


I mean, do people not remember the infamous:


"Up until now"?
 

Nethermoosen

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Well since it's a grab, if someone shields or spotdodges the cannonball near you, you'll then be able to just suck them up, thus making the move a lot harder to punish. If the grab box is big enough, it could also make the move difficult to punish if someone jumps over the cannonball instead. This will be very useful, and it will get you advantageous stage positioning along the probably decent damage it will do. Plus the projectile + grab combo means the move is threatening at far ranges and closeup. If the sucking doesn't take too long to start, it could also be useful in disadvantage in helping K. Rool land, similar to how Dedede's Inhale and Wario's Chomp can be utilized to land against people trying to shield an anticipated landing aerial.

EDIT: Oh yeah another thing, since you can now reverse specials while doing them, if someone rolls through you could also turn around and suck them up, covering up yet another avenue of punishment.
Interesting take. Depending on the startup for the crown toss, he could be fairly decent at frame traps and mix ups with those two attacks alone depending on the opponent’s choice of move and the lingering/returning hitboxes.

I can’t wait to learn the rest of his moveset and experiment with all the new goodies.

Honestly, the sooner we can snuff out this misconception, the better.


The whole "But the Direct said", after we've had countless times of things getting lost in translation....


I mean, do people not remember the infamous:


"Up until now"?
Gonna agree here. They said it in 3 different ways iirc. The use of the word “total” is being taken as “final total.”

While I’m not trying to confirm more stages as the likelihood, there isn’t set-in-stone proof that the opposite is true either.

I’m not sure why forums get so wrapped up in absolute answers when there isn’t anything truly conclusive. It may be and it may not be. There isn’t much use in fighting about it. I respect the choice of a person to believe as they choose so long as they don’t force it as if it were fact.

If it were fact, in plain sight or writing, we wouldn’t be debating about it.
 

Shroob

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It's not that I'm not content with the stage count, because believe me, I am.

But when people are basically limiting themselves for their predictions with "Well the Direct said 103 stages, so there can't be new franchises" is just stupid.


We've had two people who speak 'some' Japanese already say that it didn't sound like a conclusive total amount, and we have had SOOOO many times where words/phrases get their meaning warped on their transition from Japanese to English.


Hey, if there are only 103 stages, COOL, 103 stages, but the way that the menu was set up should have been a serious red flag for people that actually looked at it.


I mean, remember when Ness was going to be cut from Brawl because "Up until now...", and remember how people wrote off a legit Brawl leak due to it having Ness on it?

Yeah I remember.
 
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Mr. Nintendo

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It's not that I'm not content with the stage count, because believe me, I am.

But when people are basically limiting themselves for their predictions with "Well the Direct said 103 stages, so there can't be new franchises" is just stupid.


We've had two people who speak 'some' Japanese already say that it didn't sound like a conclusive total amount, and we have had SOOOO many times where words/phrases get their meaning warped on their transition from Japanese to English.


Hey, if there are only 103 stages, COOL, 103 stages, but the way that the menu was set up should have been a serious red flag for people that actually looked at it.


I mean, remember when Ness was going to be cut from Brawl because "Up until now...", and remember how people wrote off a legit Brawl leak due to it having Ness on it?

Yeah I remember.
But why point out that there are exactly 100 stages not counting the Smash 3. Heck why have it at 103 at all if there's still more to show, most of the stages we only know about because of the website.
 

Shroob

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But why point out that there are exactly 100 stages not counting the Smash 3. Heck why have it at 103 at all if there's still more to show, most of the stages we only know about because of the website.
Because at the time of the Direct, and what they're able to show us, not counting those 3, there are.

If Newcomers are tied to stages, they can't show us them for pretty obvious reasons.
 

Guybrush20X6

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It's not that I'm not content with the stage count, because believe me, I am.

But when people are basically limiting themselves for their predictions with "Well the Direct said 103 stages, so there can't be new franchises" is just stupid.


We've had two people who speak 'some' Japanese already say that it didn't sound like a conclusive total amount, and we have had SOOOO many times where words/phrases get their meaning warped on their transition from Japanese to English.


Hey, if there are only 103 stages, COOL, 103 stages, but the way that the menu was set up should have been a serious red flag for people that actually looked at it.


I mean, remember when Ness was going to be cut from Brawl because "Up until now...", and remember how people wrote off a legit Brawl leak due to it having Ness on it?

Yeah I remember.
So there's still hope for Isaac and Chibi-Robo on the base roster. Or at least hope that they don't get stuck in ROB's situation.
 

papagenos

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It's not that I'm not content with the stage count, because believe me, I am.

But when people are basically limiting themselves for their predictions with "Well the Direct said 103 stages, so there can't be new franchises" is just stupid.


We've had two people who speak 'some' Japanese already say that it didn't sound like a conclusive total amount, and we have had SOOOO many times where words/phrases get their meaning warped on their transition from Japanese to English.


Hey, if there are only 103 stages, COOL, 103 stages, but the way that the menu was set up should have been a serious red flag for people that actually looked at it.


I mean, remember when Ness was going to be cut from Brawl because "Up until now...", and remember how people wrote off a legit Brawl leak due to it having Ness on it?

Yeah I remember.

even if we do get stuck at 103 (in the base game) i feel like if isaac or chorus men or whoever get in they could get in without a stage no problem, its happened before so i dont think it stops anyone really.

maybe a slight bit against them but thats it, certainly not stopping them.

also yeah it might just be a mistranslation in the exact meaning, theres definitely 6 empty spots that are pretty jarring so unless dlc IS planned right now those 6 spots mean something certainly... could even be you start with 103 stages. thats the total at launch... with a few secret unlockable stages, sakurai said hed reveal all characters he wasnt so clear about all stages before release though.

who knows but i dont think it changes anyones chances and i do think, dlc or otherwise, we will have more stages eventually here.
 

Shroob

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even if we do get stuck at 103 (in the base game) i feel like if isaac or chorus men or whoever get in they could get in without a stage no problem, its happened before so i dont think it stops anyone really.

maybe a slight bit against them but thats it, certainly not stopping them.

also yeah it might just be a mistranslation in the exact meaning, theres definitely 6 empty spots that are pretty jarring so unless dlc IS planned right now those 6 spots mean something certainly... could even be you start with 103 stages. thats the total at launch... with a few secret unlockable stages, sakurai said hed reveal all characters he wasnt so clear about all stages before release though.

who knows but i dont think it changes anyones chances and i do think, dlc or otherwise, we will have more stages eventually here.
There won't be 6 stages to fill that.

That I can guarantee.


I forsee 5 new stages for that, and to save the 6th spot for a "DLC" button just like they did in 3DS/Wiiu.


They're not going to limit themselves to 6 stages for DLC, and the more stages that get added the closer we get to launch would lower this supposed 'dlc' window.



They'll just slap a button on there for a 2nd menu for DLC stages.
 

papagenos

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There won't be 6 stages to fill that.

That I can guarantee.


I forsee 5 new stages for that, and to save the 6th spot for a "DLC" button just like they did in 3DS/Wiiu.


They're not going to limit themselves to 6 stages for DLC, and the more stages that get added the closer we get to launch would lower this supposed 'dlc' window.



They'll just slap a button on there for a 2nd menu for DLC stages.

didnt mean to imply thered be no dlc button like smash 4
 

Remmy-ro

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I wouldn't be surprised if 103 was the complete total but then that begs the question why they renamed mute City on the 3ds to mute City snes when melee's mute City didn't make the cut
 

Omega Tyrant

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Regarding the stages, I'm pretty sure what we got was just the stage equivalent of "Everyone is here!", where they revealed all the past stages that will be in the game, to set the hype up for all the returning stages, while with it being such an incredibly large number that they can boast about it to impress right then and there, and then set the groundwork for every new stage to be able to get its own spotlight for future reveal material from that point on. Any remaining new stages really couldn't be shown off in detail during that segment, and any stage tied to a possible newcomer, especially any third party-related, couldn't just be casually shown there as Shroob stated. I'm also really doubtful Sakurai would make only four new stages.

So overall, I think we saw all the past stages that are returning (so any that weren't shown are essentially confirmed not returning for the base game), while we still have some more new stages left to see.
 
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Shroob

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For reference(Even though I've posted this several times now),


Top=Current SSS

Middle=What the SSS would look like in literally any other Smash game if they didn't plan on changing anything(So no hidden DLC button like in 3DS)

Bottom=What the SSS will almost assuredly end up looking like

Untitled.png


Sakurai ALWAYS centers his Menus unless DLC is planned(Smash3DS had a button in the code used to swap over to the DLC menu, for instance, which made the menu a perfect square).


This is a design element he's stuck to for 20 years, this isn't going to change this game.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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Still confused as to why so many stages are missing from WiiU. You'd think it was the easiest to do but seems like Brawl has that honor with only the Jungle Beat Stage missing out.

Wooly World's absense in particular baffles me.
 

Nonno Umby

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Smash Wii U didn't had a "DLC Stages" button, at least not among regular stages. It had a separate tab on the bottom
Stage_Select_SSBWU_Extra.jpg


And I'm quite sure they will do something similar in Ultimate, probably in the upper part of the screen
smashstages-768x432.jpg



Also I doubt that we will see characters like Isaac or Rhythm Heaven without an home stage. Since Brawl every single fighter had a stage for its series, the only exception being R.O.B. because he doesn't actually appears in the R.O.B. games, and instead uses old NES based stages like Mario Bros., Baloon Fight or Wrecking Crew, but since they are labeled as their own series they can't be used for R.O.B.'s background.

But considering how that count isn't centered makes me suspect that we will see more stages. Especially because 104 (103+random) can be easely put in a perfect rectangle 13×8. If that was the final count I can't see Sakurai passing on that opportunity to have a clean SSS.
 

Shroob

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Smash Wii U didn't had a "DLC Stages" button, at least not among regular stages. It had a separate tab on the bottom
View attachment 158312

And I'm quite sure they will do something similar in Ultimate, probably in the upper part of the screen
View attachment 158313


Also I doubt that we will see characters like Isaac or Rhythm Heaven without an home stage. Since Brawl every single fighter had a stage for its series, the only exception being R.O.B. because he doesn't actually appears in the R.O.B. games, and instead uses old NES based stages like Mario Bros., Baloon Fight or Wrecking Crew, but since they are labeled as their own series they can't be used for R.O.B.'s background.

But considering how that count isn't centered makes me suspect that we will see more stages. Especially because 104 (103+random) can be easely put in a perfect rectangle 13×8. If that was the final count I can't see Sakurai passing on that opportunity to have a clean SSS.
Stage_Select_SSBWU_Normal.jpg



Forgive me since I didn't play Smash WiiU, but does that > not serve as the DLC stage button?
 
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Guybrush20X6

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HOLD THE PHONE!

I just realised, with metre final Smashes, what does that mean for balance? Will Dark Pit's Instant Final Smash make him a better pick over Pit's Dragoon clone FS? Will MetaKnight having a kind of crap final Smash actually be used against him?
 

MoonlitIllusion

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HOLD THE PHONE!

I just realised, with metre final Smashes, what does that mean for balance? Will Dark Pit's Instant Final Smash make him a better pick over Pit's Dragoon clone FS? Will MetaKnight having a kind of crap final Smash actually be used against him?
I feel like they'll probably tone down the power of final smashes like dark pit which are easier to hit, seems like they're making a conscious effort to at least somewhat balance them
 

zeldasmash

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With Diablo 3 announced for the Switch, does that make Ganondorf the only Zelda character to be in a rated M game? I know it's armor but for all intents and purposes, it's Ganondorf.
 

Shroob

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With Diablo 3 announced for the Switch, does that make Ganondorf the only Zelda character to be in a rated M game? I know it's armor but for all intents and purposes, it's Ganondorf.
Depends on if you mean a character physically appearing or not.

There were Yoshi and Mario bobbleheads in Metal Gear for example.
 

AzureFlame4

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With Diablo 3 announced for the Switch, does that make Ganondorf the only Zelda character to be in a rated M game? I know it's armor but for all intents and purposes, it's Ganondorf.
Does Bayonetta with a Link costume count?
 

Soulsaint

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Omg, does this potentially give way for Blizzard rep. Because I don't know how to feel about that yet (btw does anyone know if you can play diablo 3 with one joycon per person, the anouncement and website say absolutely nothing.)
 

zeldasmash

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Depends on if you mean a character physically appearing or not.

There were Yoshi and Mario bobbleheads in Metal Gear for example.
Does Bayonetta with a Link costume count?
Bayonetta with a Link costume is still Bayonetta. The Ganondorf armor in Diablo III for all intents and purposes lets you play as Ganondorf. Kind of like the Sakura and Ryu armor in Monster Hunter World.

I was actually gonna mention the Yoshi and Mario bobbleheads in Metal Gear but they were mostly easter eggs/cameos. Ganondorf is full blown playable in Diablo III.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Omg, does this potentially give way for Blizzard rep. Because I don't know how to feel about that yet (btw does anyone know if you can play diablo 3 with one joycon per person, the anouncement and website say absolutely nothing.)
Well, you have to remember that Blizzard did make games for Nintendo systems back in the day like Lost Vikings or Blackthorne. It's not like Bethesda who JUST started supporting Nintendo consoles.

I think what needs to happen is for A. Overwatch to get a Switch version, which is looking more likley now that Paladins got on (Minecraft didn't come to the WiiU until Minecraft clones started topping the download charts) B. Nintendo to have an interest in adding more 3rd parties that are Cloud levels of unexpected. The Ganondorf gettup in Diablo is a good start.
 
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