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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.

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RamOne

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Zinith said:
If I didn't say I was 27 on my profile, how old would you think I am all things considered? :yoshi:
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I'll be honest, I thought you pretended to be 27 because Yoshi debuted in 1990 and fully expected your age to go to 28 in two days, when it's Super Mario World's 28th anniversary. That said, I expected you to be about 24 or so.
 
Zinith

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RamOne said:
I'll be honest, I thought you pretended to be 27 because Yoshi debuted in 1990 and fully expected your age to go to 28 in two days, when it's Super Mario World's 28th anniversary. That said, I expected you to be about 24 or so.
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Ha, you probably wouldn't put it past me to do that.

Though interestingly I was born EXACTLY 80 days after Yoshi's debut (February 9, 1991)
 
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NintendoKnight

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Zachmac said:
I've always liked the explanation/headcannon that the reason Ganondorf fights mostly with his fist in Smash Brothers is because he's not taking the fight all that seriously and isn't giving it his all. He is the king of disrespect after all and has a history of underestimating his arch nemesis.
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I used to buy into that headcannon explanation myself, years ago: "Ganondorf just isn't trying is all."

But then the reality sunk in and it turned into:

"This isn't working out like I'd hoped. He needs to start trying."

This "theory" also extends to Palutena who clearly isn't taking the fight seriously herself, as indicated by her obnoxious laughing, and possibly Mewtwo as well, who doesn't seem to want to put any actual physical effort into the fighting.
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Palutena herself isn't actually all that tough. Pit can make quick work of her in Uprising if you attack her and not the Chaos Kin, and at that point she's aggressively trying to kill Pit. And Mewtwo's full power is probably demonstrated more in Pokken Tournament. It's not that much greater than in Smash, though. Shadow Mewtwo on the other hand...

Of course the Smash power scale is all messed up and none of this explains why heckin Isabelle could take them out, but it is a fun explanation for Ganondorf not throwing everything he's got at the situation.
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Several characters would be straight up busted if the power scale wasn't fiddled with, BotW Link among them specifically.

Link actually gets mad respect in the World of Light trailer by surviving the longest aside from Kirby. Some of the more capable characters at best dodge/survive a single beam of light, whereas Link deflects 3 beams before the 4th finally takes him out. These are beams fast enough to hit Sonic, and Link manages to block 3 in quick succession... like a boss.
 
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D

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Ganondorf fights with Gerudo Martial Arts but the Incineroar came in and he decided to also play dirty.
Incineroar brought a chair, Ganondorf brought a ****ing sword.
 
ZephyrZ

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Zinith said:
That realization where you expect a child to grow out of a character obsession only to realize they're almost 30

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I remember the good old days were I was told Pokemon would be something that I'd grow out of. What nonsense.
NintendoKnight said:
I used to buy into that headcannon explanation myself, years ago: "Ganondorf just isn't trying is all."

But then the reality sunk in and it turned into:

"This isn't working out like I'd hoped. He needs to start trying."
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Yeah I won't lie, I would prefer if his moveset was changed a bit more. At the same time though, I just don't think the issue with is viability is that he's fist fighting, it's that he's a heavy character with bad mobility and slow attacks.
NintendoKnight said:
Palutena herself isn't actually all that tough. Pit can make quick work of her in Uprising if you attack her and not the Chaos Kin. And Mewtwo's full power is probably demonstrated more in Pokken Tournament. It's not that much greater than in Smash, though. Shadow Mewtwo on the other hand...
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Well, Pokken Mewtwo has a ton of HP while Smash Mewtwo is a featherweight. And I was moreso referring to Mewtwo's animations then his damage output anyway. Just look at the down smash which is just him pointing at the ground with his finger to create a tiny explosion, or that back throw where he just carelessly tosses his opponent behind him without even looking.

You could also argue that in the Uprising fight, Palutena was already in a weakened state. They also had to make her HP low from a gameplay standpoint as that was that boss fight's gimmick. Let's not forget that she was able to pretty much obliterate the Hewdraw if you take too long in the air battle against him or how she powered the final shot against Hades herself (although in both cases she takes a little while to charge those blasts up). There's also a line in The Wish Seed where she forgets how "frail" angels can be, presumably because she herself is a goddess.
Shishœ said:
Ganondorf fights with Gerudo Martial Arts but the Incineroar came in and he decided to also play dirty.
Incineroar brought a chair, Ganondorf brought a ****ing sword.
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Wait, did Captain Falcon learn to fight in Gerudo?
Was he the real clone all along?
 
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ZephyrZ

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Shishœ said:
It's 2018 and people still think they have the same moveset
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I don't believe he's a "true" clone, but there's no denying he is still a semi clone with a handful of similar moves.

There's still Uair, Bair, Nair, Dair, Down B, Up B, Neutral B, and U-tilt. And he only just now got his F-Smash and D-Smash changed.
 
D

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Zachmac said:
I don't believe he's a "true" clone, but there's no denying he is still a semi clone with a handful of similar moves.

There's still Uair, Bair, Nair, Dair, Down B, Up B, Neutral B, and U-tilt. And he only just now got his F-Smash and D-Smash changed.
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I'll Give you Down B, UAir and BAir, even if only somewhat in animation, but NAir and DAir are different simply by their dofferent builds.
And no, Up B and Neutral B are completely different, both in function and animation.
And Ganondorf literally has the most unique Up Tilt in the entire game whether people like it or not.
 
ZephyrZ

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Shishœ said:
I'll Give you Down B, UAir and BAir, even if only somewhat in animation, but NAir and DAir are different simply by their dofferent builds.
And no, Up B and Neutral B are completely different, both in function and animation.
And Ganondorf literally has the most unique Up Tilt in the entire game whether people like it or not.
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They're still very clearly derived from those moves however. They have a lot of similar moves with tweaks made to them so that they function or look a bit different, but that's how semi clones are.

...I was mostly just trying to make a gag about how Ganondorf and Captain Falcon have similar combat styles (despite having very different play styles regardless).

Oh and I forgot to mention dash attack pls don't hurt me.
 
NineS

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I know you're reading this. Vote 2B.
All this talk about age amuses me.
I've had quite a few people take their chances at guessing my age. Either it's too young, too old.

I just get some amusement from it. But since I love my anonymity, I doubt I'd really tell in the end. There's only a handful of people out there somewhere online who know.
But since it's been years since I've talked to some of them (one of them completely erasing themselves and whatever connection we had with each other from the internet somehow), most of them likely have forgotten by now.
And I've gone through multiple online personas already, trying to find one that sticks. And I think "NineS" is the one that's here to stay.
A :ultpit:-themed one was very close, but NieR has topped all for me now.
Zachmac said:
...I was mostly just trying to make a gag about how Ganondorf and Captain Falcon have similar combat styles (despite having very different play styles regardless).
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You know, it's crazy how something as simple as changing speed and weight can impact a playstyle immensely. I know there's more to it than that when it comes to Captain Falcon over to Ganondorf... But still. Odd how he's a semi-clone yet playing as him is almost entirely different compared to Falcon, (old) moveset aside.
 
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ZephyrZ

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NineS said:
You know, it's crazy how something as simple as changing speed and weight can impact a playstyle immensely. I know there's more to it than that when it comes to Captain Falcon over to Ganondorf... But still. Odd how he's a semi-clone yet playing as him is almost entirely different compared to Falcon, (old) moveset aside.
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I think the biggest difference in how their speed effects them is shown in their down special. Captain Falcon, being as fast as he is both on the ground and while falling, can still find use in the Falcon Kick but doesn't really need it to operate. It's a good burst option but with that run speed half of Falcon's moveset is burst options, especially with the new dash mechanics. Ganondorf, on the other hand, really benefits from that burst of speed he gets from Wizard's Foot a ton. It allows him to cover options he normally couldn't, snuff out moves while approaching (even if its high commitment), and use it as an aggressive option to escape from juggle situations.

Of course I'm awful at playing Falcon myself so maybe Falcon Kick is actually super good on him and is just underutilized by the Falcon players I've faced online, but the move still feels way more important on Ganondorf regardless.
 
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Pyra

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We talking best Ganondorf? Cause tbh It's a toss up between Wind Waker and Hyrule Warriors for me

OoT is also cool but he's not cool enough to dual wield

I can hardly remember TP Ganondorf
 
Cosmic77

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I don't know what Ganondorf would be classified as now that he has a sword (leaning toward him still being a semi-clone), but I think it's time for us to officially recognize Luigi and Wolf as fully unique characters.

There's just too many differences between them and the fighters they were based off of. Wolf could've been labeled as a unique character back in Brawl, and I think his reintroduction to Smash has only further highlighted how different he is from Fox. The two have almost nothing in common, aside from a few similar specials and a nearly identical FS. Luigi distinguishes himself from Mario even more now that he has a new tether grab. He still has a handful of attacks similar to Mario's, but I don't think there's enough for us to call him a semi-clone anymore.
 
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Cosmic77 said:
I don't know what Ganondorf would be classified as now that he has a sword (leaning toward him still being a semi-clone), but I think it's time for us to officially recognize Luigi and Wolf as fully unique characters.

There's just too many differences between them and the fighters they were based off of. Wolf could've been labeled as a unique character back in Brawl, and I think his reintroduction to Smash has only further highlighted how different he is from Fox. The two have almost nothing in common, aside from a few similar specials and a nearly identical FS. Luigi distinguishes himself from Mario even more now that he has a new tether grab. He still has a handful of attacks similar to Mario's, but I don't think there's enough for us to call him a semi-clone anymore.
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Wolf has always been unique but I refuse to not classify Luigi at least as a semi-clone out of principle even though I really can't(STilt, NAir, BAir, UAir, DSmash and USmash) are the only shared moves with Mario lol.
Wolf only has similar specials(emphasis on similar) and a NAir
 
Wyoming

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If I cant play you 99% or more the same as the original then the fighter is unique enough for me.

So Dark Pit is the only clone so far for me. Will see if the new ones have that feeling.
 
Pyra

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Cosmic77 said:
I don't know what Ganondorf would be classified as now that he has a sword (leaning toward him still being a semi-clone), but I think it's time for us to officially recognize Luigi and Wolf as fully unique characters.

There's just too many differences between them and the fighters they were based off of. Wolf could've been labeled as a unique character back in Brawl, and I think his reintroduction to Smash has only further highlighted how different he is from Fox. The two have almost nothing in common, aside from a few similar specials and a nearly identical FS. Luigi distinguishes himself from Mario even more now that he has a new tether grab. He still has a handful of attacks similar to Mario's, but I don't think there's enough for us to call him a semi-clone anymore.
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They're obviously heavily inspired and will never be totally 100% unique without redesigning them entirely but they are definitely not really clones anymore.

In fact I think most of the "semi-clones" have been made at least a little more distinct this game around to justify them not being echos and stuff.
 
Gyrom8

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Feeling firmly in the middle in all this age talk...

I'm old enough to remember the Smash Dojo and have some awareness of the Brawl speculation cycle. I remember that Snake being announced was a big deal but didn't really appreciate the full scale of it. I also remember Isaac and Geno getting a load of requests. And I fully remember going on the Dojo and being hyped as **** when I found out Olimar was in. However I don't really count myself as being a part of that speculation cycle, as I was too young to be going on any of the forums (okay, 12-14 isn't too young, but I was kind of internet-shy as a teenager lol). Nevertheless, Brawl fundamentally shaped the way I saw fan requests (Geno was always 'that Smash guy' in my head).

Had no involvement in the Smash 4 cycle, though, as my interest in Nintendo was at its lowest back then. I was busy with university and had no interest in getting a Wii U - I only got Smash 4 3ds quite late into it's life. In retrospect, I'm glad I wasn't part of Smash 4's hype cycle as it sounds kind of stressful. If I had been, though, at least I could have voted for Skull Kid in the ballot ...

While Ultimate's cycle hasn't been ideal, at least it's been much shorter than the others.

Born too late for Smash 64
Born too early to see Waluigi in Smash
Born just in time for Ultimate baybeeee
 
ZephyrZ

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P

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Untouch said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vmC1KqDpTg
Yep, fighters are earned from Spirits.

http://puu.sh/C4k7t.jpg
Pics aren't working... again...
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God I hope we can just unlock fighters quickly through vs. I don't want to spend hours upon hours unlocking characters. I'd rather play WoL and unlock characters for that mode specifically, but my friends and I just wanna hop in and play the game and unlock characters that way. Hopefully it's shorter via vs of people can go that route.
 
Pyra

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Arcanir

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Zachmac said:
Aha, I knew they'd still bring back Giga Bowser as a boss, even if they changed Bowser's Final Smash.

Now the question is if it's like in previous games or if it's a reworked "Master Giant" type boss like I've been hoping for.
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Someone posted a video of Mario's classic mode and we can see Giga Bowser there.

It's the latter, he works like an SSE boss.
 
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