Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ThatOneAnon]

So uh, Mimique BTFO?

 

[Opossum]

So uh, Mimique BTFO?

He was never a leaker to begin with.

 

[monadoboy]

Isaac is definitely not as requested as Banjo..

Since when? Banjo's popularity seems much more recent than Isaac's, unless I'm missing something here.

 

[osby]

Isaac is definitely not as requested as Banjo..

We really can't know for sure.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

He was never a leaker to begin with.

I mean yeah, but she was still wrong. Doesn’t really matter if she’s a leaker or not.

 

[NineS]

I mean yeah, but she was still wrong. Doesn’t really matter if she’s a leaker or not.

I think it might still be a little too early to confirm that. Give it another hour at least.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Since when? Banjo's popularity seems much more recent than Isaac's, unless I'm missing something here.

Banjo has been requested since Melee--from what I know Isaac has been requested since Brawl, though I've seen some who claim he's also been wanted since Melee. Banjo was always considered the "impossible" character, and so when Spencer tweet it's possibility in 2015, it looked like he had a surge in popularity. While no one can claim objectively he was popular prior, the fact his popularity hasn't gone down since, even winning some major fan polls recently, suggests his popularity is long standing.

That being said, I'm not a fan of the in-fighting between "Which character is most popular?" It's obviously subjective, and the point being Banjo, Isaac, and Geno have all been popular characters, requested since Melee. Who's "on top"--there's no actual answer.

 

[Pakky]

I mean yeah, but she was still wrong. Doesn’t really matter if she’s a leaker or not.

If you're too right, people might start looking at you at the office.

Geno and Isaac are in, no question in my mind.

 

[Cosmic77]

Since when? Banjo's popularity seems much more recent than Isaac's, unless I'm missing something here.

Banjo had support since Melee, bit he didn't really take off until Smash 4 DLC. I'm guessing people didn't think he was likely for the base game, but they really vocalized their support once the ballot was announced and Spencer made that tweet.

Issac has been consistently popular since Brawl, but I couldn't tell you where he stands right now. Feels like he's fluctuating all the time.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Ok now watch a Direct get announced in twenty minutes and I end up looking like a ****in idiot

 

[Nimbostratus]

I'm not very confident in Isaac either. If highly requested characters such as Krystal couldn't make it, I have a hard time believing Isaac could. He's from a dead franchise, and unless he got K Rool sized votes in the ballot, I don't see him happening. I want him to make it, for the fans' sake. As a big Rhythm Heaven fan, I know I'm going to be extremely disappointed if it doesn't get repped. It's unlikely Golden Sun will get much if Isaac's not playable either, which sucks.

Not at all to say Isaac is a lock and I agree with most of the rest you are saying, but what are you looking at to imply think Isaac and Krystal's popularity are at all comparable? Krystal was pretty popular back in the Brawl days before Wolf, but other than Source Gamings rather unscientific look at Japan requested characters during Smash 4 DLC, I can't think of anything in modern times where Krystal polled as well as Isaac. In fact, in most things I've seen, it's really not even that close.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo has been requested since Melee--from what I know Isaac has been requested since Brawl, though I've seen some who claim he's also been wanted since Melee. Banjo was always considered the "impossible" character, and so when Spencer tweet it's possibility in 2015, it looked like he had a surge in popularity. While no one can claim objectively he was popular prior, the fact his popularity hasn't gone down since, even winning some major fan polls recently, suggests his popularity is long standing.

That being said, I'm not a fan of the in-fighting between "Which character is most popular?" It's obviously subjective, and the point being Banjo, Isaac, and Geno have all been popular characters, requested since Melee. Who's "on top"--there's no actual answer.

I don’t think Isaac was too popular a request for Melee, as Golden Sun came out only a few months before Melee.

 

[NineS]

To be fair, every veteran was a newcomer at some point. I think it's a quote we should keep in mind, but the "rarely" gives leniency to allow for other possibilities outside of "relevant" characters, particularly since relevancy has barely mattered this time around, so far.

It is true that relevancy isn't as big as it was before, at least this time around.
But there is another word I think we should look at when it comes to franchises, or characters, etc.

I believe this word is Importance.
While it's true that all Veterans were newcomers at some point, nearly all of them were either relevant or important at the time in some form, if not to gaming and Nintendo as a whole, then the franchise they originate from. A good example of "relevant", veteran wise, is Captain Falcon and Roy.
F-Zero was still a massively popular series at the time Captain Falcon was first put into Smash.
When Roy was put into Smash, his game was about to be released in Japan.

As for "Importance", to Video Games, Nintendo History, or the Franchise they originate from... I'll provide three examples.
For the first, Simon Belmont. He's not relevant nowadays, for sure, but him and Castlevania as a whole had a massive impact on gaming. To give you a quick example, we have an entire sub-genre called "Metroidvania" just because of the influence the franchise has had on gaming as a whole.
For the second, Nintendo history, I present Game & Watch. It was one of Nintendo's earliest but still enjoyable portable devices, and some might even call it the predecessor for the Gameboy, and the DS. It was ahead of it's time.
For the final, Importance to their Franchise.. Let me specify. Importance to a Franchise already being represented in Smash Bros. This fits the bill for a lot of characters we have and likely will get. K. Rool being one of the first and most memorable main antagonist and arch nemesis to Kongs, as well as being in a game that had revolutionary graphics at the time. Ridley alone for being Samus's arch-nemesis.

So yes, while relevancy no longer matters as much as it did in the past, if an old or irrelevant character is going to be in Smash Bros, they must have at least been important. If not to their franchise which isn't in Smash Bros. already, then to Nintendo History or the gaming as a whole.

Sorry for making you read my essay. I just feel as if people feel that just because they're not a fresh face it means they can get it nowadays. People need to keep in mind how important said franchises or characters they're rooting for are too,
That being said, I'm still confident both Isaac and Banjo will at least be DLC in Smash.

I would also like to add that it is okay to root for a character who is unimportant to any of these, or entirely irrelevant. It is okay to like these types of characters and say why you think they should get in. But it is not okay to blindly assume these characters will get in without much reasoning, which I can do at times as much as I hate to admit it. It's better to take a realistic approach than blindly assume this unimportant, irrelevant character that may only matter to you will get in because you want it to.

 

[TreeBranch]

Not at all to say Isaac is a lock and I agree with most of the rest you are saying, but what are you looking at to imply think Isaac and Krystal's popularity are at all comparable? Krystal was pretty popular back in the Brawl days before Wolf, but other than Source Gamings rather unscientific look at Japan requested characters during Smash 4 DLC, I can't think of anything in modern times where Krystal polled as well as Isaac. In fact, in most things I've seen, it's really not even that close.

I just chose her as she was requested since brawl like Isaac and had a decent following. I suppose another character would have been a better fit though. It just seems like other characters would out prioritize him.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't have the slightest idea of how DLC will be handled for Ultimate, so I'm not gonna make any bold predictions until I see the first one or two characters.

But as far as Geno, Isaac, and Banjo getting in the base game goes, consider yourself lucky if we even get one of those guys.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I don’t think Isaac was too popular a request for Melee, as Golden Sun came out only a few months before Melee.

I personally agree, though I try to give the benefit of the doubt in case I'm wrong (in this case, comparing Banjo to Isaac's popularity--I'm biased, so I try to give Isaac more wiggle room to counteract that bias). That being said, I didn't know the timing was that close, so Isaac's popularity must have been after Melee.

It is true that relevancy isn't as big as it was before, at least this time around.
But there is another word I think we should look at when it comes to franchises, or characters, etc.

I believe this word is Importance.
While it's true that all Veterans were newcomers at some point, nearly all of them were either relevant or important at the time in some form, if not to gaming and Nintendo as a whole, then the franchise they originate from. A good example of "relevant", veteran wise, is Captain Falcon and Roy.
F-Zero was still a massively popular series at the time Captain Falcon was first put into Smash.
When Roy was put into Smash, his game was about to be released in Japan.

As for "Importance", to Video Games, Nintendo History, or the Franchise they originate from... I'll provide three examples.
For the first, Simon Belmont. He's not relevant nowadays, for sure, but him and Castlevania as a whole had a massive impact on gaming. To give you a quick example, we have an entire sub-genre called "Metroidvania" just because of the influence the franchise has had on gaming as a whole.
For the second, Nintendo history, I present Game & Watch. It was one of Nintendo's earliest but still enjoyable portable devices, and some might even call it the predecessor for the Gameboy, and the DS. It was ahead of it's time.
For the final, Importance to their Franchise.. Let me specify. Importance to a Franchise already being represented in Smash Bros. This fits the bill for a lot of characters we have and likely will get. K. Rool being one of the first and most memorable main antagonist and arch nemesis to Kongs, as well as being in a game that had revolutionary graphics at the time. Ridley alone for being Samus's arch-nemesis.

So yes, while relevancy no longer matters as much as it did in the past, if an old or irrelevant character is going to be in Smash Bros, they must have at least been important. If not to their franchise which isn't in Smash Bros. already, then to Nintendo History or the gaming as a whole.

Sorry for making you read my essay. I just feel as if people feel that just because they're not a fresh face it means they can get it nowadays. People need to keep in mind how important said franchises or characters they're rooting for are too,
That being said, I'm still confident both Isaac and Banjo will at least be DLC in Smash.

No apologies necessary, as I liked reading your essay. I'd agree with all of that, though importance can be subjective--for instance some would say Golden Sun was an important franchise to represent the Advance/DS era. Others say the N64 is a niche console (wut). But I do agree that importance, whether to Nintendo's history or gaming as a whole, makes a character much more likely than simply being popular.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Like Vaati and Bomberman, Krystal's Smash fanbase all but collapsed after Brawl. As others have pointed out, Isaac's Smash fanbase has been consistent since like 2005. Sometimes I wonder if, like Geno, Isaac might be considered by Sakurai to be a retro character, given he's now 17 and older than the Ice Climbers when they got into Smash. Retro franchises are the ones that most often seem to be spared the "franchise without a future" indignity.

 

[osby]

Like Vaati and Bomberman, Krystal's Smash fanbase all but collapsed after Brawl. As others have pointed out, Isaac's Smash fanbase has been consistent since like 2005. Sometimes I wonder if, like Geno, Isaac might be considered by Sakurai to be a retro character, given he's now 17 and older than the Ice Climbers when they got into Smash. Retro franchises are the ones that most often seem to be spared the "franchise without a future" indignity.

Because they aren't ordinary characters and half of the time they aren't even from franchises, just single games. Isaac isn't going to be in the same situation with Ice Climbers or Duck Hunt, regardless of Golden Sun's age.

 

[ShadowYoshi04]

Like Vaati and Bomberman, Krystal's Smash fanbase all but collapsed after Brawl. As others have pointed out, Isaac's Smash fanbase has been consistent since like 2005. Sometimes I wonder if, like Geno, Isaac might be considered by Sakurai to be a retro character, given he's now 17 and older than the Ice Climbers when they got into Smash. Retro franchises are the ones that most often seem to be spared the "franchise without a future" indignity.

I think Geno could count as a retro character, but not so much for Isaac.

 

[Deleted member]

Beard Isaac’s only 8 years old, and he’s the only Isaac worth getting.

 

[NineS]

No apologies necessary, as I liked reading your essay. I'd agree with all of that, though importance can be subjective--for instance some would say Golden Sun was an important franchise to represent the Advance/DS era. Others say the N64 is a niche console (wut). But I do agree that importance, whether to Nintendo's history or gaming as a whole, makes a character much more likely than simply being popular.

N64 was definitely not a niche console, to say the least. Banjo & Kazooie most definitely left it's mark on gaming. Yooka-Laylee is evidence on that.

Truthfully, I'm going to be brutally honest here, I don't know or think Golden Sun left too much of an impact during the DS era, but that may just be because I've never played a game from the series. Importance may be subjective in some cases, but in those cases it's more of "important to me" or "important to (person)" than revolutionary in some form or important to gaming as a whole. A good example is something like, say, Sonic Unleashed being important to some fans, compared to Mario 64 or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time being important to the gaming industry. I'm not saying Golden Sun as a franchise wasn't good, or wasn't popular. More of that it wasn't... Exactly, groundbreaking or revolutionary or important to the industry or Nintendo as far as I know.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

And.... Nothing
If anything, I would say we should get something next week

 

[amazonevan19]

Welcome to the Reapers’ Game! The World Ends with You: Final Remix for #NintendoSwitch is available now. #TWEWY https://t.co/AtB14arGJZ pic.twitter.com/hyhndR01na

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) October 12, 2018

Posted right at 7am. Yup nothing this week

 

[NineS]

Welcome to the Reapers’ Game! The World Ends with You: Final Remix for #NintendoSwitch is available now. #TWEWY https://t.co/AtB14arGJZ pic.twitter.com/hyhndR01na

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) October 12, 2018

Posted right at 7am. Yup nothing this week

... I thought I killed the Neku theory. At least, the image one.

 

[Flyboy]

Welcome to the Reapers’ Game! The World Ends with You: Final Remix for #NintendoSwitch is available now. #TWEWY https://t.co/AtB14arGJZ pic.twitter.com/hyhndR01na

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) October 12, 2018

Posted right at 7am. Yup nothing this week

NEKU CONFIRMED

 

[JustCallMeJon]

As time flies by, the more and more I feel that there will be a final direct rather than a Robin/Lucina video. If they announce something next week then we expect a reveal that week or the week after. Too late for the next Robin/Lucina video.

I feel like the next announcement is the final direct.

 

[Cosmic77]

Like Vaati and Bomberman, Krystal's Smash fanbase all but collapsed after Brawl. As others have pointed out, Isaac's Smash fanbase has been consistent since like 2005. Sometimes I wonder if, like Geno, Isaac might be considered by Sakurai to be a retro character, given he's now 17 and older than the Ice Climbers when they got into Smash. Retro franchises are the ones that most often seem to be spared the "franchise without a future" indignity.

Personally, seeing people say Isaac is a retro character is the equivalent of those people who think K. Rool counts as this game's retro rep.

Yes, both Isaac and K. Rool are old and haven't done much lately, but it's not like they were ever left out of modern gaming. Both characters made plenty appearances during the mid 2000s, even making appearances on DD and

That being said, I'd say Geno would count. He's essentially a one-hit wonder who hasn't done anything notable since his first appearance.

 

[Phaazoid]

Ok now watch a Direct get announced in twenty minutes and I end up looking like a ****in idiot

That's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make

 

[ShadowYoshi04]

Personally, seeing people say Isaac is a retro character is the equivalent of those people who think K. Rool counts as this game's retro rep.

Yes, both Isaac and K. Rool are old and haven't done much lately, but it's not like they were ever left out of modern gaming. Both characters made plenty appearances during the mid 2000s, even making appearances on DD and

That being said, I'd say Geno would count. He's essentially a one-hit wonder who hasn't done anything notable since his first appearance.

Geno has made two appearances since RPG, so I do agree.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Too much hope from you guys...y’all still have next week to get some sort of new Smash info other than Ash Greninja

We really can't know for sure.

We do know for sure...you can believe anything on the internet from strangers

 

[Louisacommie]

Wow actual new information on the blog

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Too much hope from you guys...y’all still have next week to get some sort of new Smash info other than Ash Greninja

We do know for sure...you can believe anything on the internet from strangers

I mean music theory being killed for good happened this week too

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I mean music theory being killed for good happened this week too

I liked that theory, so kinda forgot that “pain”

 

[CosmicQuark]

As time flies by, the more and more I feel that there will be a final direct rather than a Robin/Lucina video. If they announce something next week then we expect a reveal that week or the week after. Too late for the next Robin/Lucina video.

I feel like the next announcement is the final direct.

I'm starting to feel the same way now that we're halfway through October, and it's unfortunate. Incineroar and an SE rep are likely to be the final unique characters announced for the base, and I was hoping we'd have a character not rumored by Verge. At least on the bright side we'll know soon enough, so that with that uncertainty out of the way we will have a complete idea of what to expect once we play it in December.

 

[ErenJager]

But like if...
Koei Tecmo get in...

Ryu Hayabusa
HW Impa


Suezo assist trophy

Any one remember how awesome Monster Rancher was on playstation? Literally putting random dvds and game discs in ur playstation could unlock monsters... Harry Potter game or dvd unlocked a unique owlmonster.

 

[Pakky]

But like if...
Koei Tecmo get in...

Ryu Hayabusa
HW Impa


Suezo assist trophy

Any one remember how awesome Monster Rancher was on playstation? Literally putting random dvds and game discs in ur playstation could unlock monsters... Harry Potter game or dvd unlocked a unique owlmonster.

Yes very good.

Ryu and probably Kasumi who was also in Monster Rancher 2

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anyone else find it weird that we went back to not getting the memories/flashbacks on the English site? What the heck was with that Fox day ??? Lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

But like if...
Koei Tecmo get in...

Ryu Hayabusa
HW Impa


Suezo assist trophy

Rygar assist trophy.

 

[War Anvil]

I should've clarifired, I meant what seven updates as in all seven updates added four characters and three stages each, asn in Update #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,#7. My bad lol.

Spoiler: Update 1: Latecomers

Marx
Ken (Ryu Echo)
Elma
Shantae

Battle Harbor
Heart of Nova
Saliva Island

Spoiler: Update 2: Mario and Friends

Kamek
Paper Mario
Boom Boom/Pom Pom
Dixie Kong

Fear Factory
Waluigi Pinball
Raphael's Moon

Spoiler: Update 3: The Next Level!

Tails
NiGHTS
Beat
ToeJam & Earl

Panic on Funkotron
Stick Canyon
Shibuya Terminal

Spoiler: Update 4: It's Hip to Be Square

Sora
Geno
Gex
Bub & Bob

Planet X
Forest Maze
Cave of Monsters

Spoiler: Update 5: Fire Emblem's Legends

Hector
Jagen
Celica
Sothe

Summoning Circle (Fire Emblem Heroes)
Twilight of Gods
End of All

Spoiler: Update 6: Retro Darlings

Mini Kangaroo
Diskun
Urban Champion
Tin Star

Famicom
East Driftwood
Smash Memories

Spoiler: Update 7: Pokémon's New Faces

Silvally
Misty (Three Pokémon in one)

Cerulean Gym
Ultra Space
Distortion World

Thoughts on all these?

 

[Jetsurge]

They were popular characters once upon a time. People seem to have forgotten that it’s not just a matter of choosing newcomers, but veterans too.
Hell, I’ll go a step further and say if we’re counting out any and all franchises with no future, then Samus should not have been in Sm4sh.

Smash 4 started development not long after Other M so nope.