Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Banjo, Isaac, and Geno placing top 3 on a fan poll doesn't automatically make them confirmed.

But it does indicate how well they likely did in the ballot which Sakurai is basically basing the newcomers off of such as Chrom, Daisy, Dark Samus, K. Rool and Ridley.

 

[N3ON]

Banjo, Isaac and Geno are the top 3? Whelp they're definitely getting in for sure no question about it.

Banjo and Isaac have been reddit's top two since 2015, still waiting on those inclusions.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Banjo, Isaac, and Geno placing top 3 on a fan poll doesn't automatically make them confirmed.

Exactly. We could easily get none of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo, Isaac and Geno are the top 3? Whelp they're definitely getting in for sure no question about it.

Yep, and Dante and Sora are gonna be DLC! I’m really feeling it! /S

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Banjo, Isaac and Geno are the top 3? Whelp they're definitely getting in for sure no question about it.

You forgot the "/s"

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Hm I just found I had been misremembering the August Direct as being on a Tuesday when it was actually Wednesday.
Does this mean October 10th Shadow will be revealed as a callback to when Sonic was revealed on that date 11 years ago?

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

Banjo, Isaac and Geno are the top 3? Whelp they're definitely getting in for sure no question about it.

who said nintendo will see that?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hm I just found I had been misremembering the August Direct as being on a Tuesday when it was actually Wednesday.
Does this mean October 10th Shadow will be revealed as a callback to when Sonic was revealed on that date 11 years ago?

Who knows may be a Lucina/Robin reveal of Tails and Shadow.

 

[osby]

Banjo and Isaac have been reddit's top two since 2015, still waiting on those inclusions.

Bayonetta in top 10? Obviously rigged.

EDIT: Also weird seeing Waluigi, Geno and Ridley so low.

 

[Luigifan18]

Banjo and Isaac have been reddit's top two since 2015, still waiting on those inclusions.

Bomberman and Krystal below top 10, Vaati not even mentioned

Where's that repeated Roblox "oof" video when you need it?!?

 

[Untouch]

I don't have any official sources, but I was looking up sales for DQ in the West and they're higher than I would have expected, at least for some of the games.
Source is VGChartz (which is unreliable but I guess better than nothing...)

9 sold 630k in NA and 670k in EU.
8 sold 650k in NA and 750k in EU.

Rest are either never ported or didn't do super well (over 100k each though).
Don't have XI sales yet, Steamspy says that XI on Steam sold over 100k though.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think if we can try and combine these results with the previous Japanese one a while back (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj9bEgWUwAE_M8q.jpg), we can get an all around level playing field for what every country wants, since that percentage of Asian responses in this poll is quite, quite low.

*looks at poll*

Sans for Smash!

edit: wait Geno is in 11th place out of 25 :o

edit 2: and Steve is 14th =) (yet somehow B-K is 19th? :S )

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

What about yooka layle? nobody wants them? LMAO

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Banjo and Isaac have been reddit's top two since 2015, still waiting on those inclusions.

So the top 10 most voted Characters (Excluding Veterans OFC) were:

1. Banjo
2. Isaac
3. King K. Rool
4. Shovel Knight
5. Bayonetta
6. Paper Mario
7. Inkling
8. Geno
9. Waluigi
10. Ridley

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is another reason Geno collapsed after Brawl's release, a lot of his pre-Brawl "popularity" was driven by a handful of driven people:

From Fatmanonice on Smashboards:
I agree, it isn't enough which is why I hope to expand the idea to other sites. Back in 2006, I started Operation: Star of Heaven. Basically it was a campaign to get Geno in Brawl. It started on Nsider where me and about 10 other Geno fans created a 26 page portfolio (both in English and Japanese) supporting Geno's inclusion into Brawl. I then went to Nintendo's HQ in Kyoto and tried to drop it off but a security guard turned me away so I had to send it when I was in Tokyo. After I came back, I made "bases" in other forums to rally support. I made one here, on IGN, on Gamespot, and on Gamefaqs and support for Geno grew from there.

 

[osby]

So the top 10 most voted Characters (Excluding Veterans OFC) were:

1. Banjo
2. Isaac
3. King K. Rool
4. Shovel Knight
5. Bayonetta
6. Paper Mario
7. Inkling
8. Geno
9. Waluigi
10. Ridley

So, we already got four out of ten. It's pretty good for a fan-made pool.

 

[Kuon]

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html idk if there's a way to directly link to that post but it's the one at the top atm

Oh okay, I see. So they're calling it Flashback in English. It is weird that they just now decided to do the Flashback/Memories for the West instead of doing it from the beginning

 

[RandomAce]

I think the fact that Lloyd got FIFTH shows that Lloyd may be a character we have been sleeping on.

That and the fact that Lloyd has a costume as well, I think Lloyd may have been more popular than we have thought, and could get in Base or DLC.

I think we should keep an eye on him.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, how would a Dragon Quest character fight in Smash exactly?

I mean, they're pretty much the MOST generic of JRPG protagonists. Sword and shield with a few magic spells. Most likely wind. Might get some attacks where various DQ monsters show up if they want to add in some variety.

Might even get them to go Super Saiyan if their final smash is, like, a Super High Tension Gigaslash.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That image can form a perfect grid now with K. Rool and Isabelle.

Being someone who thinks the box theory is on to something, it annoys me to no end that 72 characters creates a perfect 6x12...except you have to factor in a random spot. Ugh!

Does anyone think we will get a CSS without a random spot like 64 & Melee? I'd say maybe, except that we have one in the demo :/

Huh. I hadn't really paid attention to that. So they might really organize the final CSS by the character number order? It's definitely something of a theme they've been stressing, but I didn't figure they'd organize the CSS by anything but game affiliation as usual.

Somehow this just looks wrong.

Coming from someone who is Type A about this kind of ****, it took me a while to get used to. I've accepted it at this point but like I said hoping for a series customize option.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the fact that Lloyd got FIFTH shows that Lloyd may be a character we have been sleeping on.

That and the fact that Lloyd has a costume as well, I think Lloyd may have been more popular than we have thought, and could get in Base or DLC.

Agreed. I’m surprised Lloyd got so high in the poll.

 

[staindgrey]

Here is another reason Geno collapsed after Brawl's release, a lot of his pre-Brawl "popularity" was driven by a handful of driven people:

From Fatmanonice on Smashboards:
I agree, it isn't enough which is why I hope to expand the idea to other sites. Back in 2006, I started Operation: Star of Heaven. Basically it was a campaign to get Geno in Brawl. It started on Nsider where me and about 10 other Geno fans created a 26 page portfolio (both in English and Japanese) supporting Geno's inclusion into Brawl. I then went to Nintendo's HQ in Kyoto and tried to drop it off but a security guard turned me away so I had to send it when I was in Tokyo. After I came back, I made "bases" in other forums to rally support. I made one here, on IGN, on Gamespot, and on Gamefaqs and support for Geno grew from there.

Being driven and organized by a small group of people is completely different than inflating representation with bots and the like.

Not that I care for Geno at all. But that quote just sounds like a grassroots political campaign to me. Good for them.

 

[Sharkarat]

No way. This is pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of how it works.

Most people making wishlist/prediction videos are more interesting in being "right" than they are asking for who they actually want. That's why almost every wishlist has the same 4-5 characters appearing in it. Most of those people don't actually WANT Captain Toad, Spring Man or Rex, but they showed up on almost every list anyway. They just wanted to be able to go "See! I totally called it!"

Unfortunately for them, all those people misjudged how far in advance Smash's roster gets selected.

Part of what I mean by disguised is that they add some characters they want + some common guesses/prediction. Also I doesn't follow the youtube based seculation community.
Captain Toad is absolutely on on lists because people want him. There really isn't a stong case for him being in. people that are predicting him either want him (in at least subtle ways), or were basing their prediction on other peoples.
And Spring Man & Rex was not too bad guesses outside the timing. But yes these were the typical "safe" guesses to makes their predictions more realistic.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm going to be ecstatic if Lloyd was the next newcomer. Although amused if he's fighter #69, considering he has two swords.

 

[Deleted member]

I just had an epiphany and figured out who the Square Enix rep is. Best part is that he could rep both SE and Bamco. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you

Spoiler

Step aside, Goku, Edward will be our first anime character in Smash :^)

 

[ChronoBound]

Being driven and organized by a small group of people is completely different than inflating representation with bots and the like.

Not that I care for Geno at all. But that quote just sounds like a grassroots political campaign to me. Good for them.

The fact is that it has been revisionist thinking that Geno was among the biggest of the pre-Brawl characters (he was usually among the lower of the Top 10 (usually ay #8-10)) in pre-Brawl polls I collected). Other characters that were big during pre-Brawl (aside from from characters that were only exclusive to a single game like Midna or Lyn) did not depreciate in requests like Geno did. The only other notable character that depreciated was Krystal, and that was largely due to the fact that the series went in hiatus for ten years and the fact that many people thought Star Fox had more than enough characters (and people that wanted her exclusively just for another female representative joined onto other female characters they felt had become more likely, like Palutena). Krystals's depreciation was gradual over the course of pre-Smash 4, while Geno's was sudden and drastic. Saying such things will make me earn the ire of many here, and I am a very massive fan of Super Mario RPG (its one of my favorite SNES games of all time), but I do not like the revisionism that Geno was among the "Big 3" alongside Ridley and K. Rool. If anything, Isaac has a much, much, much stronger case for that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just had an epiphany and figured out who the Square Enix rep is. Best part is that he could rep both SE and Bamco. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you

Spoiler

View attachment 168106
Step aside, Goku, Edward will be our first anime character in Smash :^)

Tagteam with Alphonse or riot. Nina gets to be an assist trophy with Scar appearing before she goes away

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I just had an epiphany and figured out who the Square Enix rep is. Best part is that he could rep both SE and Bamco. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you

Spoiler

View attachment 168106
Step aside, Goku, Edward will be our first anime character in Smash :^)

Edward Elric's too short to be playable.

 

[Makai Wars]

I think if we can try and combine these results with the previous Japanese one a while back (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj9bEgWUwAE_M8q.jpg), we can get an all around level playing field for what every country wants, since that percentage of Asian responses in this poll is quite, quite low.

People keep reposting this but this poll was not numbered outside of the top 5. Everything under top 5 was listed by series, not by number of votes, that's why you see Mimikyu and Decidueye next to each other along with Noctis and Sepiroth. It's still a good poll but saying things like "2B and Crash Bandicoot were above Dixie lol" is factually untrue.

 

[Deleted member]

Tagteam with Alphonse or riot. Nina gets to be an assist trophy with Scar appearing before she goes away

GWEN NO
I support the tag team idea though, let's get the Elric Climbers

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm going to lay this out here: I'm not concerned about how many characters are left at this point, but who those characters will be. If they really are Ken and Incineroar, there's no way to even act surprised here. Veggie Bun is like that one kid on Christmas Eve who sneaks away to unwrap the gift under the tree, and tries to wrap it again before morning comes, only he hasn't got time to check whose gift he unwrapped and assumed it was the right one.

Also, any more details about the hints of a possible announcement? I haven't kept up in the last few hours since I was trying to beat Wrecking Crew.

I just had an epiphany and figured out who the Square Enix rep is. Best part is that he could rep both SE and Bamco. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you

Spoiler

View attachment 168106
Step aside, Goku, Edward will be our first anime character in Smash :^)

Only one problem, the manga and anime ended years ago, so he's old and busted.

 

[Nekoo]

The fact is that it has been revisionist thinking that Geno was among the biggest of the pre-Brawl characters (he was usually among the lower of the Top 10 (usually ay #8-10)) in pre-Brawl polls I collected). Other characters that were big during pre-Brawl (aside from from characters that were only exclusive to a single game like Midna or Lyn) did not depreciate in requests like Geno did. The only other notable character that depreciated was Krystal, and that was largely due to the fact that the series went in hiatus for ten years and the fact that many people thought Star Fox had more than enough characters (and people that wanted her exclusively just for another female representative joined onto other female characters they felt had become more likely, like Palutena). Krystals's depreciation was gradual over the course of pre-Smash 4, while Geno's was sudden and drastic. Saying such things will make me earn the ire of many here, and I am a very massive fan of Super Mario RPG (its one of my favorite SNES games of all time), but I do not like the revisionism that Geno was among the "Big 3" alongside Ridley and K. Rool. If anything, Isaac has a much, much, much stronger case for that.

Thanks you. For finally explaining this. Genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, thanks you.
I have a hattred with the current mood of Smash Ultimate era to make constant revisionism about Smash's history... Yet, a lot of people will just discard it. As always.

 

[T3Z3R1]

I just had an epiphany and figured out who the Square Enix rep is. Best part is that he could rep both SE and Bamco. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you

Spoiler

View attachment 168106
Step aside, Goku, Edward will be our first anime character in Smash :^)

Will Nina be included as new AT so she can cover the screen WITH ITS DOG FUSED BODY and forcing everyone to look at her?
I am so dead for this.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to lay this out here: I'm not concerned about how many characters are left at this point, but who those characters will be. If they really are Ken and Incineroar, there's no way to even act surprised here. Veggie Bun is like that one kid on Christmas Eve who sneaks away to unwrap the gift under the tree, and tries to wrap it again before morning comes, only he hasn't got time to check whose gift he unwrapped and assumed it was the right one.

Also, any more details about the hints of a possible announcement? I haven't kept up in the last few hours since I was trying to beat Wrecking Crew.



Only one problem, the manga and anime ended years ago, so he's old and busted.

FMA is still fresh and cool, don't you dare say that. At least its corpse isn't being milked dry like Dragonball or Boruto's Dad

 

[staindgrey]

The fact is that it has been revisionist thinking that Geno was among the biggest of the pre-Brawl characters (he was usually among the lower of the Top 10 (usually ay #8-10)) in pre-Brawl polls I collected). Other characters that were big during pre-Brawl (aside from from characters that were only exclusive to a single game like Midna or Lyn) did not depreciate in requests like Geno did. The only other notable character that depreciated was Krystal, and that was largely due to the fact that the series went in hiatus for ten years and the fact that many people thought Star Fox had more than enough characters (and people that wanted her exclusively just for another female representative joined onto other female characters they felt had become more likely, like Palutena). Krystals's depreciation was gradual over the course of pre-Smash 4, while Geno's was sudden and drastic. Saying such things will make me earn the ire of many here, and I am a very massive fan of Super Mario RPG (its one of my favorite SNES games of all time), but I do not like the revisionism that Geno was among the "Big 3" alongside Ridley and K. Rool. If anything, Isaac has a much, much, much stronger case for that.

I'm not arguing against any of that. I believe you. I also have no horse in this race because I don't care about Geno or Isaac.

All I was referring to was your quote. Which, to me, doesn't really do anything but show that actual organization and effort can produce results. Which is a positive thing. The opposite can happen without it; I honestly believe that there is a lukewarm-to-very-excited fanbase for ARMS that would love character representation, but they're too disorganized and have no real rallying cry, since the game isn't that old and the competitive scene died off. They lack the "hey, I know him!" hipster fans that Geno receives for being a long-forgotten but trendy character pick.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, what’s new?

 

[Heracr055]

There are a lot of logistical obstacles I can see arriving with trying to place Sora in this game, so his inclusion seems to be lower than 1% imo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

FMA is still fresh and cool, don't you dare say that. At least its corpse isn't being milked dry like Dragonball or Boruto's Dad

That's true.

Although most Bamco fans would be hella mad if Edward got in over their video game characters tho.

Will Nina be included as new AT so she can cover the screen WITH ITS DOG FUSED BODY and forcing everyone to look at her?
I am so dead for this.

>spoilers for an old series
Why would you do that, it ain't fair for those who haven't seen it.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Shantae should've won the ballot, she's cuter and more helpful than Banjo

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

No, it's not disingenuous. I'm using the term placeholder consistently--"an image that is not the final product." Almost everybody agrees on that part for the reasons I specified. As such, you and box theorists *infer* the negative space will be filled in, and nothing else will change. If you think that's a reasonable inference, that's fine. I don't think it's reasonable under that view they'd be that careful to censor the image, but not careful enough to think out the fact people would be able to guess the final roster. I agree--it's a weird image. There's a weird (nonsensical) pattern. That's not convincing to believe that gives us any indication about what the final design would look like, which is why I call it a placeholder. Maybe it's not, but I see no reason to suspect otherwise. And that's just one, of many ridiculous assumptions for the theory to work. Whereas the assumption that the blog takes the NEW banner down before a reveal--is as simple as it gets.

First condescending arguments from authority, now I'm disingenuous. Apologies if I struck a nerve somehow, but wow.

EDIT:


I'd definitely love to make it positive, despite how difficult it is at times. It's hard for me to say a 10 because that would be "perfect", though the E3 reveal blew my expectations out of the water and I would have been content with that being the final roster. And then it just kept going. So for that reason, I'd say it's a 10. Not a perfect 10, but as close as it gets. Stages is another issue--I would have gone a different route, especially if "103" is final. I'd give that a 7.

The biggest problem, in my humble opinion, with pointing out that it’s a placeholder as a point against it is that it doesn’t explain the design choice in the first place.

For example, if they were just going to use a placeholder in order to hide the roster total or something, why not just upload an image of a black box that says, “Super Smash Bros. Ultimate”, or a white box with black text? THAT there is a true placeholder.

Then there’s the fact that there is, whether we like it or not, a pattern to the design. If it’s a design that is going to eventually be changed anyway, why bother creating a pattern that splices the characters into groups of 9 when the easier thing to do is to just put them on the boxes in order?

The answer, which in this context seems to make quite a bit of sense, is that they had to break it up that way based on the order they would be in, unique or echo. This is why it’s important for Ken or somebody else within those 8 characters (Palutena through Cloud) to be present.

Granted, that doesn’t confirm Incineroar by any means. But that’s the working theory.

But i’ll skip anymore box talk. I just wanted to clarify the thing with the “placeholder” design because I think that argument is a double edged sword. Yes, it’s a placeholder, but it’s a placeholder with a very specific design. The design is based on the roster, not the other way around.

Really at this point I just want the roster to leak or be revealed so that we have answers. Or better yet, release the game a month early. That would also be great!