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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Blargg888

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As much as I loved the mass amount of information that smashed us into oblivion (SSBU staff included ), I just can’t help but feel a bit strange about this.

Article 1: With so many cut veterans returning, it feels like a last hurrah. Could this be the end of Smash? Or perhaps for a very long time. Or perhaps this is Sakurai’s last smash? The one smash to rule them all.

Article 2: With so many returning veterans, did development time take away from meaningful potential newcomers?

Article 3: Ridley, Inkling, and begrudgenly Daisy are all fun additions but what if this is all we get with newcomers? Will we see newcomer additions between now and December? Will that amazing roster collage change with each added newcomer? The vagueness is kind of disconcerting.

Article 4: Going Ariticle 1, Smash Ultimate lends gives the connotation that this is the end all be all of Smash games. It is the ultimate version. Of fourse, it could be called Super Smash Bros. Last or Finale. But Ultimate makes me feel a little bittersweet.

Article 5: Fancy it up all you want but the game feels very much like an super hyper enhanced port of Smash 4 with crisper graphics. To me, and perhaps I’ll get flak for it, it makes me think that I’m watching an enhanced version of Smash 4.
They said that the Smash series will probably continue after this, but they may never be able to do this again, so they're doing it now. That's why it's called "Ultimate". I think they said that during treehouse.

Also, the knockback seems pretty distinctly different from Smash 4. Plus we've already been told it's not a port, so it isn't.

Also, they outright said that they hope we don't expect nearly as many newcomers, so I actually changed my vote in the poll above.
 
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Zippo

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Y'all...

Man...wow. What an experience that was.

June 12th was literally a day that will go down in history as legendary.

Still reeling from the hype shock.
 
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Blargg888

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Dark Pit and Lucina will probably be changed around a bit.

If Dark Pit goes through a new game with only the same handful of differences, we have a problem.
The implication of Dark Pit being an Echo Fighter seems to suggest that his move set won't be changed. I do agree though that they should maybe change more of his move attributes though. That would solve the problem and make him more like Lucina.

Ok so I haven't been super active since.....years, but I am sure some people will remember my time during ssb4 speculation, but for those who don't know: used to be the biggest paper mario supporter, was VERY active on sb during potd and hype time, that all changed after as I mostly left this site AND I no longer want paper mario because of something complicated to explain that has to do with the last 2 games of his series.

So I am here to post an essay of my reactions and thoughts on the direct because first: those who used to know me would be satisfied as they would know how long my essays can go and second because it's fun and as of now, I seem to be caught up on everything which was overwhelming, but I got through!

For tradition, here's the sanctuary guardians music from earthbound for your pleasure during reading :)


So tbh I didn't had any expectations on the direct, I was leaning on thinking it was a new game, but was clearly unsure. I was in a discord server which consist of actually some members that I used to talk with on this forum, but sadly without mic because it was lunchtime at my work, but I could only type.

Enough about context, let's talk about how it went down with me.

Until sakurai appeared, I was doing my usual "nice, cool" reaction with the direct because let's face it, I don't get hype of things too much, I will admit though, super mario party without a car was a bit hype. Obviously, my heart and hype was.....very high expecting to the smash talk. When sakurai appeared, this is where everything went to heck VERY quickly. They start to show character.....with numbers.....okay why? Whatever, it will jsut be some couple of veterans and finish it off quickly. So I watch, okay mario obviosuly, link lol why he's not gonna be there? But then it got weird, I was seeing a lot of confirmation of vets, when it got to ice climbers.....I was hype, they were cut before so that's nice, but then it became VERY weirdm they confirmed SO much, mewtwo, roy, a lot of characters that we know was problematic in previous versions until dlc, but when I saw young link.....HUH?

okay, this is defintely unusual, WAIT SNAKE WTF?????????

(to tell the truth, I thoguht snake was a goner because of how konami has been doing lately so this took me by HUGE surprise)

So at this point, I kept spamming the chat so much discord had to limit my rate lol. Everyone is here? okay I guess I missed a joke or something idk what was that. Then it continued, freaking the rate of confirmation per second has never been this high in ANY speculation ever, wait even dlc like bayo and cloud? okay what is happening?

Here's the thing, I never realised what was going on because I was too focussed on the confirmation, I obviously didn't count them, but it's only at the end when they show the banner of all the characters (which I legit thoguht a newcomer was going to appear on the right) and the phrase "Everyone is here" that I figured it out. Seriosuly, my brain clicked and I popped off SOOOO hard, not as hard as I did for the paper mario stage annoucnment (and beleive me, that one was somehting....) and I proceed to spam again, and discord limited my rate. I had 2 pages of unsent messages because I was without word I was NOT expecting this AT ALL. Holy crap, this was so much overwhelming that I legit could not pay attention for half of the presentation. I didn't even realised they confirmed a botw stage, that's how little attention my brain could because I was still busy trying to process what happened the last 5 minutes.

So stuf stuff stuff (I missed so much it's ridiculous lol) and then daisy announcement making my brain EVEN LESS apt to pay attention also I loled at echo fighter because.....no one will use this term, it sounds stupid comapred to clone, whatever. stuff and then we got to the freaking newcomer trailer.....oh boy (I didn't expect I would watch it with this state)

Okay I am going to admit, I saw samus and the metroid like area and at the back of my mind, "ridley", but then I instantly thought it was impossible and I am being delusional because sakurai said TWICE it would be too difficult due to its size in a 6 years span. When I saw the VERY obvisous tail, legit I didn't even wanted to believe it, I wasn't thinking straight because logically, they basically confirmed it, but I couldn't believe it was going and then I saw hima nd the tag and I was forced to accept and yet, another pop off......

I was COMPLETELY destroyed, like words cannot describe how overwhelmed I was and I had to left because work, but I realised when I got back that I missed SOOOOO much that it took me until 1am to catch up on everything! This is insane, I lived ssb4 e3 specualtion and I know it was a mess, but this is another level, I was trying to catch up and then something came up, ti was impossible lol

Okay, so there was my reactions, loved the direct, obviosuly, but now let's talk about what I think of the stuff and where do we go from here.

First off, not cutting anyone means ANY reveal is a newcomer, the game releases in 6 months which leaves 2 directs whcih is nice when I think aobut it :) Now, I know Sakurai said to not expect much, but.....how I interpret his words is in relation to what we got before. ssb4 was insane in newcomer count, but ssbb was only 15, if Sakurai means "nowhere close these numbers", I interpret it as say something like 5 newcomers would be reasonalbe, something like that and we got 3 already so yeah, that's interesting.

Quick notes about characters:

  • Ganondorf is the best since ssbm, love him!
  • the pokemon trainer made me love him again
  • I do not know how, but they managed to make toon link look better
  • g&w (my main) got so much animation improvements, I was very pleased
  • inkling is VERY interesting and I am surprised how much they packed from splatoon
  • Ridley is as badass as I expected
About stages, AMAZING, especially the ones redesigned from ssb3ds because the improvements are insane.

And speaking of stages, @MegaMarioMan9 this now woudl interest you because yes, I will bring up talk about the paper mario stage which tbh, is the onyl thing left I want at this point :)

Again, this is freaking impressive, but afaik, there is about 80 stages confirmed, the number of yet unconfirmed stages is.....very low relative to every stages ever. In fact, there is so little that it's not too far fetched to expect that every stage is here which obvisouly would include the paper mario one which has yet to be seen. Now, I know about the whole thing that I stopped supporting him because of hsi lattest 2 games making it logical to not be based ont he first 3 games blah blah blah, but this is different, the stage was revealed at a time where NOTHING was done but trophies for this series so you bet that I care A LOT still about it.

The thing is, I also noticed soemthing else, none of the stages changed TOO much, they only got improvements in graphics like for example, the conductor link doesn't look like a freaking ds model, it now is full 3d. For as much as 80 stages to follow this trend, this si clearly something done for the entire game so in the event that the paper mario stage is revealed, it shouldn't change the aesthetics that I liked aobut it, mainly first and second phase. Idk what they would do with the third because frankly it sucks, but the point is it's VERY likely that if that stage is in (which is very liekly already for ANY missing stages), that it won't necessarly have color splash design. It will keep its original sticker star and TTYD style to it which I am very pleased and hype about it, oh and maybe this is an opportunity to have better music because I really didn't liked the rogueport remix......urgh.

So yeah, very hype for this game, I am still unsure if I will buy a switch this year, this game definetely makes me consider it though. I am impressed by what they managed to do and I would gladly follow news of the game.

THE END!

this has been so long I done an essay like this omg....
Hey, it's nice to finally see you again! It's been a while.

OK can we just take the time to appreciate that Wario now has his shoulder dash from Wario Land as his dash attack?

Best execution possible imo, now I don't have to sacrifice Wario Bike or Wario Waft!
I'll miss his face flop trippy doo attack. But I'll gladly welcome this. Wario Land 1, 3, & 4 were all great games! (I never played 2).

EDIT: Oops, I double posted, sorry about that. I probably shouldn't be posting at 5 AM. I'll stop for now.
 
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MysticKnives

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Game looks so darn fun. It really is great. Love all the different small changes. The fact that there are so many stages to choose from is pleasing to me. Getting every Mother stage back (especially Magicant and Fourside) is a blessing.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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OKAY, SO.

My time with Smash.

Keep a few things in mind here:
-I play competitive, I go to tourneys, but I am absolutely NOT a leading authority on Smash. So take my "opinions" and "analysis" with a grain of salt.
-I only had 3 two minute games in a casual setting. As much as I really wanted to test things out, I didn't really want to ruin the fun of the others playing with me by just going off and doing my own thing to test changes and mechanics. I did my best though.
-The stations used Pro Controllers and that threw me off WAY more than it should have. Like, I couldn't even find the dang grab button somehow. Combine that with Tap Jump and things just went a bit weird for me at times.
-I'll probably end up repeating things much better players with much more time with the game have already shared.

Anyways, getting right into it.

WOOMY!
-Really fun.
-Very Unorthodox, as I'm sure people can already tell. Good thing my two mains are as unorthodox as they come. My first minute of the match was a bit of a struggle, but for the rest of it I did get them down a bit more.
-Their run animation puts them into squid form and essentially riding an ink wave like they would swimming through ink in Splatoon. They were surprisingly a bit slippery when doing this, not like Ice Physics or anything, but it felt a bit buttery running around.
-Roller (Side B) has a surprisingly fast startup. I was caught off guard several times by another Inkling player spamming it.
-Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but you are slower when walking on the ink the Rollers puts down.
-Splattershot is actually pretty good at stopping approaches. I feel characters with frontal approaches like Sonic are probably going to have a tough time. It's essentially a wall as long as you keep using it.
-Ink is actually pretty plentiful. I only really had to recharge once. I may not have used as much ink as I could have, though.
-Smash Attacks and such don't seem to use up Ink. I think.
-It seems easier to ink someone up at higher percentages, at least with the Splattershot. Makes KOing easier, obviously.
-Air attacks are pretty average
-Woomy has a dedicated taunt and I can and will use it.
-Purple Inkling Girl is the one true color option and this is not debatable.

Barney The Dinosaur!

-I... wasn't really digging him, honestly. Not my playstyle, but even then, Ridley felt kind of... basic. I mean, he's accurate to his source, for sure. But I just personally don't see anything really "WOW" about him.
-Air attacks are really good, as they should be
-His rapid jab is insane, but that seems to be a common theme with rapid jabs this time.
-Meta Ridley (Or is it his Samus Return costume?) from the trailer was not selectable. Could maybe be a sign of more alts to come for other character who don't have them?
-He has no Pogo Stick tail and I was really kind of hoping that would be a thing.
...I really don't have much else to add to him. Again, I just wasn't really feeling him.

Super Fighting Robot!

-Feels as good as ever
-Can still re-pick up Metal Blades and combo with it. Didn't have enough time to test Z Dropping.
-Charge Shot/ Side Smash can be charged, like, REALLY long. It was kinda a blink-and-missed it kind of thing for me, but I think I charged it so long that Mega Man got tired out and stopped doing it, kinda like Luigi's side B. I dunno, I might have been imagining it
-A lot of his attacks feel less laggy, especially his aireals, the startup on Down Smash and most notably leaf shield.
-Up air seems weaker, still good but probably won't be as insane as before
-Dash attack/Top Spin is REALLY weird with the new hit stun, it just kinda drags out a bit too long when it connects.

General things I noticed:
-The game feels different. There is definitely more weight to everything and it feels speedier. Spammed some Smash 3DS in before I went in and all it served to do was throw me off. Smash 4 port this ain't.
-Because I'm a try hard, first thing I tried to do was wavedash. Didn't work. You do get a bit off of it but not enough to be worth it.
-Wave LANDING, however, feels amazing and I'm really glad it's a thing.
-The movement you get off it is very strange, but being able to act out of it with the momentum shift it gives you is going to be fun, I can already tell.
-Footstooling is still here, dunno if it's tech-able but I'm gonna assume its not.
-Abra is a Pokeball Mon now and I hate his guts. He will literally go around and warp players off stage in the blink of an eye. You can recover from it, and it's clever, but it was such a beginners trap, haha.
-There are SO MANY minor animation details in this game that are just so incredible and give everything so much personality
-Great Plateau's tower crumbling doesn't seem to hurt you? I might have just missed that. Either way both of the new stages are pretty chill. I can see Great Plateau being a counterpick if the crumbling indeed doesn't damage people. I don't think Moray Towers' blast zone size, weird as heck platforms and such are gonna fly though, hazards or not.

All in all?
Really, really loving it. Gonna try and get more time in Thursday since press will be mostly gone, hype will have died down, people will be riding shuttles to the airport every hour, and it's the longest day us with the Gamertags have.

If you guys have anything you REALLY want me to check, let me know. If it's character specific I'll try and get around to them, but right now I think my next choices to try out are Zelda and Snake, maybe a bit more Woomy.
Ledge mechanics? Are they the same as Smash 4's?
 

Fenriraga

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Ledge mechanics? Are they the same as Smash 4's?
Didn't get to see if Ledge Trumping is still a thing but I heard it is.

But I will say you do NOT snap to ledges very easily. It's damn near Meleeequse.
 
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D

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Didn't get to see if Ledge Trumping is still a thing but I heard it is.

But I will say you do NOT snap to ledges very easily. It's damn near Meleeequse.
Trumping is back. You can see it in the Invitational. And yeah magnet hands are gone.
 

Fenriraga

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...Today's Fighter?

Today's Item?

...GUYS ARE WE GETTING DOJO 2.0???
 

dezeray112

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Been about 4 or so years since I posted last, good to be back in the speculation ring.

So, verdict on the Verg leak? He called most of today's stuff, but at the same time, no new Castlevania should kill the leak outright at the same time, no?
Hard to say. Although I wouldn't rule it out just yet as there is still six months left until the game comes out and it is still possible that Simon could be unveiled by then.

Either ways, I think we will find out the answer to that eventually.
 
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lltacx

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Did i just not see it or did Link lose his hookshot? I love Link but tbh i wish he changed more, as far as i can tell he just has new bombs and no hookshot.

Also, i freaking love this game. ALL VETERANS RETURN!? Mewtwo looks amazing, like really good. And Young Link? Seems like a dream!! I wonder what newcomers we’ll still get though!
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Okay, honestly, if the Miis lack their variable move sets I'll be a little disappointed. Palutena I can understand, but the whole "create your character" part of the Miis is pretty important. I understand that this would harm the Miis viability in competitive, but I just feel like you can't just discard those things. They're an important part of the Miis' characters.
I understand how you feel, but here's what they had to consider. For at least 95% of smash 4 players, the Mii Fighters were not in Smash 4. Tournaments took the (IMO) ill advised move of banning customs which always meant either banning Mii Fighter or limiting them to the point they might as well be banned since no one would ever pick them in that state. If you played online you couldn't pick them. If you were at a friend's house, you were the guy being a pain in the rear end wanting to make a Mii Fighter so most people just wouldn't. If you played in any of these venues at least sometimes you never wanted to invest into Miis because if you can't always use a character why bother learning it? The size issues alone were a balance nightmare; smallest brawler was so crazy good, and the role playing aspect was kinda hurt by the fact that if you used a large base Mii your Mii Fighter basically automatically sucked. You kinda put it all together and almost all actual players concluded "just don't fool with Miis" was the best decision, and that's really too bad since it was three fully fleshed out and unique movesets kinda wasted.

Going to be honest I already miss Luma Warp (Rosalina's 20-ish second video confirmed her neutral-B is based on Luma Shot in this game) and in general to me the more powerful and dynamic customs WERE smash 4, and I couldn't bring myself to play a version without them. I get the loss probably more than most, but if we're moving on with this title that is designed to package things in more accessible ways and load up on content and variety via other avenues, it makes the most sense not to risk losing three characters to almost all of the players again. It sounds like they're working hard on at least giving them a lot of aesthetic variety so the Miis will still feel more personalized than other characters;
 

Deoxys911

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1: Who do you think are the remaining newcomers to be revealed, just in case there's a select few of them in the base game?
2: Should DLC come to pass, how many characters could we get, and who?
You know, now that I think about it DLC is going to be especially exciting for this game because every character will be a newcomer! I can't wait!

As for who I would predict will be revealed over the next six months as coming in the base game, my money would be on King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Captain Toad, Ashley, one more echo fighter, and possibly a retro character (Excitebiker, Mach Rider?). This would be enough to give us a newcomer reveal each month from July to November and bring the grand total up to nine new characters. Then I'd expect about six DLC characters. Since these would have to sell well, I'd expect all to either be popular picks or from popular series, my best bet being the likes of Rayman, Spring Man, a Pokémon from the 2019 Switch games, Rex, Geno, and Banjo & Kazooie. Even if I'm off with these predictions, I believe that the remaining new characters from both the base game and DLC will primarily be chosen based on what popular Nintendo games have come out between the 2015 and 2019 as well as, more pertinently, what the Japanese and American results of the Smash Ballot were.
 

Shroob

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Everyone seems to be aiming high with their newcomer predictions, and here I am thinking they'll put Dixie in as an echo character to give Donkey Kong a new representative without having to put too much work into her.

I'm still riding high on the Ridley reveal like a lot of ya'll, but I just don't see K.Rool getting it to be frank.
 

Blargg888

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I understand how you feel, but here's what they had to consider. For at least 95% of smash 4 players, the Mii Fighters were not in Smash 4. Tournaments took the (IMO) ill advised move of banning customs which always meant either banning Mii Fighter or limiting them to the point they might as well be banned since no one would ever pick them in that state. If you played online you couldn't pick them. If you were at a friend's house, you were the guy being a pain in the rear end wanting to make a Mii Fighter so most people just wouldn't. If you played in any of these venues at least sometimes you never wanted to invest into Miis because if you can't always use a character why bother learning it? The size issues alone were a balance nightmare; smallest brawler was so crazy good, and the role playing aspect was kinda hurt by the fact that if you used a large base Mii your Mii Fighter basically automatically sucked. You kinda put it all together and almost all actual players concluded "just don't fool with Miis" was the best decision, and that's really too bad since it was three fully fleshed out and unique movesets kinda wasted.

Going to be honest I already miss Luma Warp (Rosalina's 20-ish second video confirmed her neutral-B is based on Luma Shot in this game) and in general to me the more powerful and dynamic customs WERE smash 4, and I couldn't bring myself to play a version without them. I get the loss probably more than most, but if we're moving on with this title that is designed to package things in more accessible ways and load up on content and variety via other avenues, it makes the most sense not to risk losing three characters to almost all of the players again. It sounds like they're working hard on at least giving them a lot of aesthetic variety so the
Miis will still feel more personalized than other characters;
I know, as a Mii Main, I had to deal with all of the bias and idiocy that came with people not understanding my character. I get why, but it's still frustrating.

Something still confuses me about what you're saying though. You act like Miis don't have customs anymore, but as far we know, that hasn't been confirmed. Only Palutena has been confirmed to have set moves now.

That said, if Miis do lose their variable move sets, I'm disappointed in their choices. Why keep gunner's charge shot and missile when you could give them the more unique specials like grenade, fire shot, or stealth shot. It's just a disappointment as a Mii Main.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I'm getting a real sense of fan-service from this game. (Ridley, Daisy, beloved characters added to characters Final Smashes, Sukapon/Bomberman assists) Which makes me think Sakurai might be heavily looking towards the ballot and the Smash community for inclusions this time.

I don't think that bodes well for characters like Decidueye or Rex & Pyra, even potentially an Arms rep. (it seems unthinkable to me that Arms could miss out, but it's looking possible here) Characters that didn't get the chance to participate in the ballot. (and haven't been in demand by Smash fans for very long)

It's not that I think Daisy isn't relevant, but like Waluigi she doesn't have a game to call her own. So I think fan demand played a huge role in her inclusion.
 

Darkraid

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They said that the Smash series will probably continue after this, but they may never be able to do this again, so they're doing it now. That's why it's called "Ultimate". I think they said that during treehouse.

Also, the knockback seems pretty distinctly different from Smash 4. Plus we've already been told it's not a port, so it isn't.

Also, they outright said that they hope we don't expect nearly as many newcomers, so I actually changed my vote in the poll above.
So this is the Tekken Tag Tournament 2 of Smash? LOL bringing everybody back.

I hope Smash 6 is not Tekken 7 where most of the vets gets slashed.
 

Deoxys911

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Two things that I feel warrant mentioning that may have slipped past some people:
  1. The game's subtitle is "Special" in Japan, not "Ultimate," eliminating any sense of finality as far as the name is concerned
  2. Only Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are called "echo" fighters, with Young Link, Pichu, and Dr. Mario notably being listed as normal characters. This seems to indicate that "echo" doesn't necessarily mean "clone" per se, but rather that characters labeled as such are especially similar to their original counterparts in this game. Of course, whether we may still see new non-echo clones (or semi-clones) added in this game is yet to be seen.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I feel like Bomberman isn't an assist because you know Simon and Snake, but more so that Sakurai couldn't figure out how to make someone whose whole theme is bombs have a varied moveset.

So it's possibly third parties he didn't know how to create a moveset for could be getting in as assist trophies.

Speaking of? We've seen Sonic and Bayonetta getting a new assist trophy. We saw Pac-Man's ghosts. Have we seen a Street Fighter, Mega Man or Metal Gear assist trophy yet?
 

dezeray112

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I've heard on Twitter that Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers in the new game, thanks in part to bringing everyone back. This raises two questions in my mind, and I want to hear your guys' two cents:
1: Who do you think are the remaining newcomers to be revealed, just in case there's a select few of them in the base game?
2: Should DLC come to pass, how many characters could we get, and who?
1. I'm thinking of around a number between 6 to 8 newcomers would be ideal for me. As for who is going to be, although it is hard to say at the moment, Simon Belmont, Elma of Xenoblade X, a new Pokemon, a new Retro rep (Excitebiker etc) are the ones I have in mind.

2. As for DLC, I could see possibly the likes of Nintendo's newer franchises. such as ARMS, Xenoblade 2 etc.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I know, as a Mii Main, I had to deal with all of the bias and idiocy that came with people not understanding my character. I get why, but it's still frustrating.

Something still confuses me about what you're saying though. You act like Miis don't have customs anymore, but as far we know, that hasn't been confirmed. Only Palutena has been confirmed to have set moves now.

That said, if Miis do lose their variable move sets, I'm disappointed in their choices. Why keep gunner's charge shot and missile when you could give them the more unique specials like grenade, fire shot, or stealth shot. It's just a disappointment as a Mii Main.
I guess it's not strictly confirmed, but Palutena's specials were more unique than the Miis in the first place and they're gone and they kinda implied Miis were more static now. Their "proportions" have been adjusted (non-variable size but carefully balanced around one size is how I took that) and "the moveset for each type has also been enhanced" which sounds to me like they're built to have one good moveset instead of variable ones that often could be really bad if you didn't make good choices (I especially noted the use of the singular and not the plural here). I also honestly can't imagine customs being gone in general but still present for three characters; that feels like the kind of thing that would really rub a lot of people the wrong way and surely the devs know that. Maybe I'm wrong (I certainly never imagined DLC characters in 4 just wouldn't have customs after they existed for everyone else), but it certainly feels like the safe assumption in lieu of further information. I kinda figured they were just dancing around saying things directly because saying "we cut a lot of features" sounds negative but "we enhanced the moveset of each one" sounds positive, you know?
 

Blargg888

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I just realized. I think Mii Fighters' variable move sets are actually returning.
In the "Everyone is Here!" Trailer, you can see Gunner using the Neutral B laser shot. However, in the Mii Fighters' personal trailer, you can see Gunner using the Charge Shot Neutral B. So I still have hope!
 

Rockaphin

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Speaking of? We've seen Sonic and Bayonetta getting a new assist trophy. We saw Pac-Man's ghosts. Have we seen a Street Fighter, Mega Man or Metal Gear assist trophy yet?
I don't recall ever seeing any gameplay including any of those series having an Assist Trophy yet.

.... Ken confirmed as Echo Fighter. :troll:
 

Zinith

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What else is Nintendo gonna talk about for the next two days? Will they just show more SSBU matches, or are they gonna announce new games that oddly weren't in the Direct?

I'm off to bed early tonight. It's been a long day for me. Night!!! :yoshi:My God I adore this emoji
 

Blargg888

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What else is Nintendo gonna talk about for the next two days? Will they just show more SSBU matches, or are they gonna announce new games that oddly weren't in the Direct?

I'm off to bed early tonight. It's been a long day for me. Night!!! :yoshi:My God I adore this emoji
Games have always been announced during Treehouse. Things like the Superstar Saga remake and Project STEAM were announced during Treehouse. So well probably get something new, just maybe not anything extremely groundbreaking.

Oops. I failed to go to sleep.
 

osby

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I'm so glad RPG fighters were able to sneak more of their party members into the Smash.
 

Staarih

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I wonder if the official Smash site will be updated regularly from now on - I noticed they added a blog post about the Squid Sisters that wasn't there yesterday (I think?). Also, the music page says "New music added regularly" and at least I hadn't noticed the other three songs after the main theme so I'm assuming they're new (that Vega Stage theme tho).

Or maybe I'm just a slowpoke.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I'm so glad RPG fighters were able to sneak more of their party members into the Smash.
It's a shame Cloud's not able to do the same since the Final Fantasy 7 has some pretty iconic characters left, but it's understandable that they really wouldn't want to change his final smash to include them.

Speaking of, we haven't seen a Final Fantasy assist trophy either.
 

dezeray112

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I feel like Bomberman isn't an assist because you know Simon and Snake, but more so that Sakurai couldn't figure out how to make someone whose whole theme is bombs have a varied moveset.

So it's possibly third parties he didn't know how to create a moveset for could be getting in as assist trophies.

Speaking of? We've seen Sonic and Bayonetta getting a new assist trophy. We saw Pac-Man's ghosts. Have we seen a Street Fighter, Mega Man or Metal Gear assist trophy yet?
Smash 3DS/Wii-U did have Elec-Man as an assist trophy whilst I do recall that Grey Fox was an assist in Brawl, although its hard to say about their chances of returning for Ultimate. If they were to pick an assist trophy from the Street Fighter series, I would pick either M. Bison, Guile or Chun-Li.
 

The Original Robot boy

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Two for OoT and BotW (the big Zeldas), one cel-shaded/toon, one from top down. I'm surprisingly happy with this. No other Smash has represented Zelda even half as good as Ultimate. (Next best thing to getting reworks, at least.) Space world sword for Ganondorf is a nice nod to what could've been and Melee while separating him more from Captain., Young Link takes what Link drops in favor of BotW stuff, which is neat and makes him useful. Link finally has a good Final Smash, Zelda's FS is cooler than a simple arrow and OoT Ganon is the best. Curious to what YLink's Final Smash will be.
Going BotW with Sheik was the best idea, gives BotW and OoT balance instead of being 3 - 1, and is a costume that exists in-game.
Supposedly Link can shoot lasers from the Master Sword when at 0%
This is the first time I'm satisfied with Zelda representation since Melee.
Plus, the mix-match of styles leaves a door open for newcomers... (Personally, I don't even care about newcomers anymore)
If they add Tetra into this group I'd be completely satisfied
 

Guybrush20X6

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I don't recall ever seeing any gameplay including any of those series having an Assist Trophy yet.

.... Ken confirmed as Echo Fighter. :troll:
That'd make a heckofa lot of sense. That's how he started out after all.

Change Shoryuken from single to mult hit, add a fire effect and give him his flashier supers for his Final Smash.
 
D

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Did i just not see it or did Link lose his hookshot? I love Link but tbh i wish he changed more, as far as i can tell he just has new bombs and no hookshot.

Also, i freaking love this game. ALL VETERANS RETURN!? Mewtwo looks amazing, like really good. And Young Link? Seems like a dream!! I wonder what newcomers we’ll still get though!
Yes, it's been confirmed that Link no longer has the hookshot. It was mentioned during the Invitational. He now has a regular grab. The other two Links do though. I guess if you want a Link that plays more like classic Link, play Young Link, as this Link is BotW Link, and has a lot of changes made to him.

Is ledge trumping returning a good or bad thing? Completely clueless on Sm4sh meta.
Personally, I like Ledge Trumping. I've always felt Ledge Hogging made off stage play way too simple. I never liked magnet hands though, as that made Ledge Trumping more annoying than anything else. Also, they've changed how you interact with the ledge too, aside from Magnet Hands being gone, now can't Back Air off the ledge either, so you gotta go for the kill first, and then try to recover, rather than try to play it safe.

My main gripe however is how tanky the characters are still. Recovery is still way too strong. Characters should be dying at around 100-120% rather than 170% and still being alive like we saw in the Invitational. Combine that with the return of Rage, and that's some serious bull****. Drop the survivability down.
 

Zeox

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These are all the stages that they reintroduce before showing the new Great Plateau Tower:
stage1.jpg


Without counting possible Third Parties or DLCs, each stage could represent a character, having some Echo characters like Shadow and Isabelle, the Classic representation character that could be any character from Wrecking crew 98 (that could be the eggman plant man, gotchawrench or even Foreman spike), then a new Zelda rep (could be anything) and a new mother character that could be Porky but it could be anything.
Also, didn't count Great Plateau Tower because the presentation is different from the others, but if I count it it could be BOTW Link or an extra second zelda rep.
This, of course, is just a theory that have no other purpose that to kill time and explore all the alternatives.
 

Shroob

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These are all the stages that they reintroduce before showing the new Great Plateau Tower:
View attachment 148094

Without counting possible Third Parties or DLCs, each stage could represent a character, having some Echo characters like Shadow and Isabelle, the Classic representation character that could be any character from Wrecking crew 98 (that could be the eggman plant man, gotchawrench or even Foreman spike), then a new Zelda rep (could be anything) and a new mother character that could be Porky but it could be anything.
Also, didn't count Great Plateau Tower because the presentation is different from the others, but if I count it it could be BOTW Link or an extra second zelda rep.
This, of course, is just a theory that have no other purpose that to kill time and explore all the alternatives.
Nooooooot gonna put too much stock into this theory when Simon is highly, HIGHLY likely to be in due to leaks, and none of these are Castlevania, obviously.

As for the others, they seem like a reach.

I really doubt Mother of all franchises would get another Rep when the series is pretty well represented in this game as is, better than any prior game mind you.


Wrecking Crew would be... who? Foreman Spike? Isn't that just who became Wario, technically?
 

Zeox

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Nooooooot gonna put too much stock into this theory when Simon is highly, HIGHLY likely to be in due to leaks, and none of these are Castlevania, obviously.

As for the others, they seem like a reach.

I really doubt Mother of all franchises would get another Rep when the series is pretty well represented in this game as is, better than any prior game mind you.


Wrecking Crew would be... who? Foreman Spike? Isn't that just who became Wario, technically?
That's why I said without counting DLCs or thirdparties... and that is why I have other 2 characters besides foreman spike.
And no, don't put any stock, there is not even a new pokemon character.
 

PLATINUM7

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Two for OoT and BotW (the big Zeldas), one cel-shaded/toon, one from top down. I'm surprisingly happy with this. No other Smash has represented Zelda even half as good as Ultimate. (Next best thing to getting reworks, at least.) Space world sword for Ganondorf is a nice nod to what could've been and Melee while separating him more from Captain., Young Link takes what Link drops in favor of BotW stuff, which is neat and makes him useful. Link finally has a good Final Smash, Zelda's FS is cooler than a simple arrow and OoT Ganon is the best. Curious to what YLink's Final Smash will be.
Going BotW with Sheik was the best idea, gives BotW and OoT balance instead of being 3 - 1, and is a costume that exists in-game.
Supposedly Link can shoot lasers from the Master Sword when at 0%
This is the first time I'm satisfied with Zelda representation since Melee.
Plus, the mix-match of styles leaves a door open for newcomers... (Personally, I don't even care about newcomers anymore)
Given the way final smashes work this game, I can see Young Link having a final smash functionally similar to Triforce Slash but involving a transformation into Fierce Deity Link.
 

lltacx

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Yes, it's been confirmed that Link no longer has the hookshot. It was mentioned during the Invitational. He now has a regular grab. The other two Links do though. I guess if you want a Link that plays more like classic Link, play Young Link, as this Link is BotW Link, and has a lot of changes made to him.


Personally, I like Ledge Trumping. I've always felt Ledge Hogging made off stage play way too simple. I never liked magnet hands though, as that made Ledge Trumping more annoying than anything else. Also, they've changed how you interact with the ledge too, aside from Magnet Hands being gone, now can't Back Air off the ledge either, so you gotta go for the kill first, and then try to recover, rather than try to play it safe.

My main gripe however is how tanky the characters are still. Recovery is still way too strong. Characters should be dying at around 100-120% rather than 170% and still being alive like we saw in the Invitational. Combine that with the return of Rage, and that's some serious bull****. Drop the survivability down.
No that’s the thing! I wish he got changed even more, maybe uses the champion abilities or something like that, he still uses his boomerang now
 
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