Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

[Jolteon]

the barrel isn't that big of the deal and is very similar to the cloud on yoshis which even though it can be predicted, can only rarely be used to your advantaged as you don't know when your going to be hit off. Besides the barrel being not much of a problem anyway, it can be completely nullified by barrel hogging. Also it's not like the barrel needs to be at a constant speed and have an exact pattern for it to be used to your advantage. As KJ is a big stage theres much more room to stall and be able to use it.

ALSO, how is the barrel unfair at all? It doesn't deliberately save one player and stay well away from another.

Alex- disappointed that you agreed with Jack on that one

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

And yes I am well aware that the barrel on kj is a "minor" interference but the point is it's still RANDOM, meaning it can effect a match negatively even when you've done absolutely nothing wrong which is just bs. The barrel isn't even comparable to the cloud, since that is 100% predictable and every time it effects you, you deserve it.

 

[Heartstring]

itt: preteen style argueing
really guys. its obvious all stages should be legal
for the solid reason that half the stages would never be used ANYWAY from personal preference
i would always go peaches castle though, such a neutral stage

 

[Jolteon]

Best solution is obviously Battlefield-only tournaments.

 

[jjlinyard]

Fox only, no items, final destination.

 

[SwizzyUK]

Ganon only, no items, final destination, 4 players.

Good idea JJ but I tweaked it a little to make it unbeatable.

 

[Professor Pro]

This talk of Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar being more legit then KJ64 because of the barrel being random is stupid, thats like me saying Pokemon Stadium is less fairer in comparison to RC and Brinstar because the stage changes can come up in any order.

But a stage where acid comes from the ground a limits players for a few seconds to one or few platforms on the stage, and a stage where there's no really solid stage to it, just a bunch of obstacles and it's moving the entire time is fairer....

You can play gay on any multiple stages...Man up and experiment with the stages instead of theorizing this and that might happen, none of the stages have extreme reasons for them to be banned...put on KJ64 if you're putting on the other stages

 

[Professor Pro]

Also, bringing up rare occurences of things happening to say that this stage should be banned is also stupid...also that's like saying that Pokemon Stadium should be banned cos you can fall through the stage.

The majority ofpeople don't pay attention to the cloud timing anyway and you know that's true, so saying that you can judge the cloud timing but not the barrel and thats a reason it should be banned is stupid because it's not like the cloud timing is a universal thing which people pay attention to, and then they suddenly are thrown into oblivion the moment it can't be used....once again...MAN UP and put it on and see how it goes...

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

And yes I am well aware that the barrel on kj is a "minor" interference but the point is it's still RANDOM, meaning it can effect a match negatively even when you've done absolutely nothing wrong which is just bs. The barrel isn't even comparable to the cloud, since that is 100% predictable and every time it effects you, you deserve it.

Also if you've played bad enough for you're fate of the match to come down to the barrel, you've done something wrong, doing nothing wrong is ****** with 0% and then randomly dying.

 

[gm jack]

Such as my link earlier?

I know it's quite minor, but every other thing you have mentioned as random (PS changes, Brinstar lava) gives a warning that it is coming so that you can avoid something really dumb happening. KJ64 keeps the barrel just out of sight, so you can go to recover low and find yourself being shot down because you didn't register the barrel in that fraction of a second you could see it.

I quite like KJ64, and other wise, it is a great example of a counter pick. However, while the barrel may only affect a small minority of games, the fact it can makes it less competitive than desired.

 

[Tamoo]

That link earlier was a pools match between brad and jolteon. I actually watched it all to see if you were trying to make a point. I was disappointed on two counts of there being no relevance to this conversation and having sat through boringmatch.avi

The barrel is no big deal whatsoever. It's biggest problem is the campability. It's still better than a lot of stages being suggested.

 

[gm jack]

Wrong copy then. I'll fix it now.

 

[Heartstring]

IIRC the barrel underneath KJ64 isnt random. dont hold me to this but i swear it has a timer on when its where. its just hard as hell to see this.
also if were going off the basis of timers make it much fairer for tournament play. that makes big blue a legal stage for melee, think about that ^^

 

[Professor Pro]

Such as my link earlier?

I know it's quite minor, but every other thing you have mentioned as random (PS changes, Brinstar lava) gives a warning that it is coming so that you can avoid something really dumb happening. KJ64 keeps the barrel just out of sight, so you can go to recover low and find yourself being shot down because you didn't register the barrel in that fraction of a second you could see it.

I quite like KJ64, and other wise, it is a great example of a counter pick. However, while the barrel may only affect a small minority of games, the fact it can makes it less competitive than desired.

The fact with the random thing on PS I was referring to, is that someone could john and say they would have won if a certain stage came up...and that's random so does it make less competitive? Something being random and not hugely influencing the game rarely should be a factor to ban it.

I know the Acid/Lava is predictable, but you're saying that a stage where it comes up and takes up the entire stage should be allowed but a simple barrel at the bottom of a stage is a straight ban....
LOL I Can't actually believe you think KJ64 should be banned but stages like Brinstar and RC should be allowed and simply because KJ64 has a barrel at the bottom....

You're stating situations which happen like once every 20 matches to say a stage should be fully banned while other gay stages are allowed, the biggest defence of that stage being banned is camping, and there's easy ways to prevent that on the stage anyway...

The barrell doesn't make it less competitive, it's an extreme minor factor and I play on the stage all the time...strip yourself of being a smash debater cos you debate garbage.

Next im gonna hear FoD should be banned because people can't predict when the platforms are going to go up and down.

 

[Jolteon]

This talk of Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar being more legit then KJ64 because of the barrel being random is stupid, thats like me saying Pokemon Stadium is less fairer in comparison to RC and Brinstar because the stage changes can come up in any order.

But a stage where acid comes from the ground a limits players for a few seconds to one or few platforms on the stage, and a stage where there's no really solid stage to it, just a bunch of obstacles and it's moving the entire time is fairer....

You can play gay on any multiple stages...Man up and experiment with the stages instead of theorizing this and that might happen, none of the stages have extreme reasons for them to be banned...put on KJ64 if you're putting on the other stages

Well it's less about the luck happening and more about the fact that you can't really predict when the luck is going to happen and account for it... if that makes sense. This is why I wouldn't really compare it to PS stage changes and I DEFINITELY wouldn't compare it to the cloud.

And you know I play/experiment on these stages more than nearly anyone in the UK does (look at my random stage list lol) so it's not like I don't have experience with them, and I think the platform layout for KJ is worse than what RC gives for camping (and the main reason I called it iffy... I don't personally have a problem with it being legal but I thought other people might, looks like I was wrong). Like I've said already though it's not like I have extensive tournament experience with it and it's not like I'm saying it's THAT bad (I put it on my stage list! lol).

The majority ofpeople don't pay attention to the cloud timing anyway and you know that's true, so saying that you can judge the cloud timing but not the barrel and thats a reason it should be banned is stupid because it's not like the cloud timing is a universal thing which people pay attention to, and then they suddenly are thrown into oblivion the moment it can't be used....once again...MAN UP and put it on and see how it goes...



Also if you've played bad enough for you're fate of the match to come down to the barrel, you've done something wrong, doing nothing wrong is ****** with 0% and then randomly dying.

The point is it's their fault for not having stage knowledge lol, you should know that more than anyone. Why would we account for something because a few lazy smashers can't be bothered to learn a simple timing pattern?... it's not rocket science for when the cloud appears and I can usually guess when it'll screw up with someone's edgeguard when I'm not even the one playing.

And yeah I agree with your last point (I used to play Pokemon competitively, without a mindset like that you get destroyed), but it can still happen at the same time. xd

I know the Acid/Lava is predictable, but you're saying that a stage where it comes up and takes up the entire stage should be allowed but a simple barrel at the bottom of a stage is a straight ban....
LOL I Can't actually believe you think KJ64 should be banned but stages like Brinstar and RC should be allowed and simply because KJ64 has a barrel at the bottom....

Actually I see most people put Brinstar/RC above KJ on stagelists now so prepare for a lot of people's opinions to shock you. <_<

/e Whatever, I can't be bothered to argue about KJ when I'm actually suggesting it's going to be put on in the first place... these are just reasons people dislike having KJ on and I actually thought I'd have to argue about why we should keep KJ on and not the other way around lol.

I have two proposals for the stage list:

FoD
Yoshi's
FD
Battlefield
DL64
Pokemon Stadium
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
KJ64

Proposal 1:

For game 1 we strike from the whole list, after game 1 people are free to counterpick from the list as per usual (1 stage ban).

Proposal 2:

Hmm, maybe we can do this?

Game one: Strike to 3/5 stages, then strike from there as normal to decide the first stage.

After game one: The loser may counterpick from the 3/5 stages that the players originally striked to, counterpicking works as normal (stage first, winner character change, loser character change) except there is no stage banning.

This way you still only have to strike once (removing time issues), there is still stage variance and we eliminate the barrier between "neutral" and "counterpick" stages. Seems like a good compromise to me.

 

[Bullet Bill]

This talk of Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar being more legit then KJ64 because of the barrel being random is stupid, thats like me saying Pokemon Stadium is less fairer in comparison to RC and Brinstar because the stage changes can come up in any order.

But a stage where acid comes from the ground a limits players for a few seconds to one or few platforms on the stage, and a stage where there's no really solid stage to it, just a bunch of obstacles and it's moving the entire time is fairer....

You can play gay on any multiple stages...Man up and experiment with the stages instead of theorizing this and that might happen, none of the stages have extreme reasons for them to be banned...put on KJ64 if you're putting on the other stages

thankyou.

The cloud on yoshi story has as much to do with luck as the barrel as you CANNOT predict when you will be off the stage to need it. Knowing the timing means that you can know whether you will be saved, not be in control of whether you can be. Both of them require luck and things like stalling.

like prof said- are we really going to be so whiny and pathetic because of small things like this or are we gonna have some variety for once.

Btw Alex- surely your the one acting like a baby for reacting to my post so angrily and-

what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" - maybe you should listen to your own advice

 

[Professor Pro]

Why don't we just do the stages which was suggested by Jolteon and then normal 5 stage strike stages...and then one stage ban and DSR like normal....

And then see how that goes and then that's that.

 

[Unreal91]

Lol I don't think many people are gonna read those long repetitive posts.

 

[Professor Pro]

It wasn't really meant for everyone, it was really between a few people

SHORT SUMMARY FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO READ IT

Apparently KJ64 should be banned because of the barrell at the bottom is unreliable, but stages like Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar are still alright which is BS.

I think it should be allowed among them stages and that the barrell is a minor factor...some people are complaining saying that you can camp hard, but if you're playing a character which can't handle getting camped extremely then ban KJ64

 

[Jolteon]

Why don't we just do the stages which was suggested by Jolteon and then normal 5 stage strike stages...and then one stage ban and DSR like normal....

And then see how that goes and then that's that.

but I think if those stages are good enough for CPs then we may as well stage strike with them anyway

thankyou.

The cloud on yoshi story has as much to do with luck as the barrel as you CANNOT predict when you will be off the stage to need it. Knowing the timing means that you can know whether you will be saved, not be in control of whether you can be. Both of them require luck and things like stalling.

like prof said- are we really going to be so whiny and pathetic because of small things like this or are we gonna have some variety for once.

Btw Alex- surely your the one acting like a baby for reacting to my post so angrily and-

what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" - maybe you should listen to your own advice

how am I acting angrily? nevermind I guess you'd know looooooool.

It wasn't really meant for everyone, it was really between a few people

SHORT SUMMARY FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO READ IT

Apparently KJ64 should be banned because of the barrell at the bottom is unreliable, but stages like Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar are still alright which is BS.

I think it should be allowed among them stages and that the barrell is a minor factor...some people are complaining saying that you can camp hard, but if you're playing a character which can't handle getting camped extremely then ban KJ64

I think kj is worse honestly (circle camping) but I also think both should be allowed

 

[Professor Pro]

but I think if those stages are good enough for CPs then we may as well stage strike with them anyway

So you want to have 9 stages instead of 5 stages when stage striking at first....I guess you could do that, not really a big massive factor but it could cause complication when it's not really needed and 5 is easy....how would it go
Winner of RPS gets to take off the first one, loser gets to take off two or one....then the winner takes of how much...it's just easier to do the normal 5 and then stage strike.

how am I acting angrily? nevermind I guess you'd know looooooool.

LOOOL

 

[Bullet Bill]

but I think if those stages are good enough for CPs then we may as well stage strike with them anyway



how am I acting angrily? nevermind I guess you'd know looooooool.



I think kj is worse honestly (circle camping) but I also think both should be allowed

you get angry when you say something about smash and anyone disagrees with you. Don't blame me for your issues

don't try telling me this isn't angry

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

lol

 

[Jolteon]

So you want to have 9 stages instead of 5 stages when stage striking at first....I guess you could do that, not really a big massive factor but it could cause complication when it's not really needed and 5 is easy....how would it go
Winner of RPS gets to take off the first one, loser gets to take off two or one....then the winner takes of how much...it's just easier to do the normal 5 and then stage strike.



LOOOL

yeah basically I just feel like saying stages are ok "sometimes" (e.g. counterpick stages) is stupid, the only reason people used to do that was because the 1st choice was random, but now we do stage striking so I think the whole list should be used. I mean fair enough I guess it's harder and takes longer to do but I think we should at least try it.

It's 1-1-1-2-2-2-2-1 for 9 stages.

you get angry when you say something about smash and anyone disagrees with you. Don't blame me for your issues

don't try telling me this isn't angry

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

lol

yeah I popped a few blood vessels while I was writing that message.

 

[jjlinyard]

G&W only, No Items, Final Destination, Forward B only, taken in turns.

Ps KJ64 is legit, still think we should go back to Mlg 2005 stage list minus like peach's castle and green greens although don't we all kinda miss gaying people out a bit common now

 

[Heartstring]

one thing that you might want to take into account with the barrel. i cba to put melee in my wii as its a good 3 yards away from my seat (lazymac) but once you go into the barrel, does it auto fire you or do you choose when you get fired? think of the possibility of getting a percent advantage and then stalling in the barrel forever
im pretty sure you cant do this...just throwing that out there

 

[Bullet Bill]

yeah basically I just feel like saying stages are ok "sometimes" (e.g. counterpick stages) is stupid, the only reason people used to do that was because the 1st choice was random, but now we do stage striking so I think the whole list should be used. I mean fair enough I guess it's harder and takes longer to do but I think we should at least try it.

It's 1-1-1-2-2-2-2-1 for 9 stages.



yeah I popped a few blood vessels while I was writing that message.

just try to calm down and lets get back to discussing stages.

GP- you control when you fire yourself out there but if you stay there too long it will fire by itself which it sometimes does pointing downwards

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

^100% angry

 

[Heartstring]

ah KK. also... do you get your jumps back. i can see jiggly stalling that out a ton with rising pounds and jumps
jeez...you see brawl forces you to think of ALL the possible retardations that can happen

 

[Bullet Bill]

ah KK. also... do you get your jumps back. i can see jiggly stalling that out a ton with rising pounds and jumps
jeez...you see brawl forces you to think of ALL the possible retardations that can happen

even after you get sent out of the barrel you get a lot of stun and either it's down/ sideways = death or up which leaves you quite vunerable. This isn't brawl were talking about by the way

 

[Heartstring]

i thought the barrel span? dont you have like a diagonal up option?
okay i knowi m theorycrafting to the max now. just trying to give a bit of input ^^
also, i know its not brawl

 

[SwizzyUK]

It's 1-1-1-2-2-2-2-1 for 9 stages.

So you strike 12 out of 9 stages... maths fail.

On a serious note though, if you're having 9 stages (some of which are more controversial) you need 2 bans. There are too many levels which massively favour certain characters for one to be effective enough.

 

[Tamoo]

swizzy: That denotes the order players strike rather than how many strikes each player gets.

Also the 2 bans are unnecessary if you are stage striking as you're essentially banning that way anyway

 

[J03]

3 strikes in a row, i hope im not the only one who sees how ******** that is

 

[SwizzyUK]

My bad - I'll leave you guys alone to continue the bickering about KJ ;)

And no Jo3, you're not. I'm just too lazy to work out an alternative due to the odds of me showing up to any of these... Unless you come down of course

 

[rustediron]

When did I say that, or even hint it?

Uhhhhh...

A stage is either fair enough to be played on, or not fair enough to be played on at all. How can there be a middle ground to stages? Labelling a stage as a counterpick is essentially saying "this stage is fair sometimes", which is stupid.

Basically, my main concern is that legal stages are split into "neutral" and "counterpick" stages, when they should either be legal or banned.

Right here, lol.

I don't want to sound like VA, but did you read my post? I clearly did say that, whilst individual stages may be considered too biased to play the first game on (because winning the first game does put you at an advantage), other stages are considered allowable on the roster because they balance in conjunction with other stages (as you get one counterpick stage each).

 

[Bullet Bill]

i thought the barrel span? dont you have like a diagonal up option?
okay i knowi m theorycrafting to the max now. just trying to give a bit of input ^^
also, i know its not brawl

a great bit of input would be to pick up melee. It's a great game and it isn't as hard to get into as it seems.

I don't see the problem with counterpick stages. It gives players the chance to give themself a sort of home field advantage. Counterpicks have been used for years and unless I john badly, theres no match that I have played where I would have put me losing down to having too much of a disadvantage due to a counterpicked stage. The one stage I had a big problem with when I was playing doc was Mute City but then I'd just ban it

 

[Heartstring]

it is a good game
i just get ruined by the lack of buffering. it causes great levels of rage

 

[Jolteon]

just try to calm down and lets get back to discussing stages.

GP- you control when you fire yourself out there but if you stay there too long it will fire by itself which it sometimes does pointing downwards

doo doo ben, what happened to "news flash, you're not always right?" and now you're disappointed because I have a different opinion from you like a whiny baby... loooool.

^100% angry

loooooooool if you GENUINELY believe that post was angry, I actually thought you were joking because no one could be more oblivious than to actually believe that I was upset from that post. it's kind of clear that I was just mocking you being "dissapointed" that I have a different opinion from you by quoting you and calling you "doo doo" and a "whiny baby" (not serious insults). why don't you actually discuss stages rather than stating your "dissapointment" with those who disagree and congratulating people who agree with you?

I am discussing stages with prof, hugo and various other people... but apparently me debating=me being angry with people who have different opinions from myself.

So you strike 12 out of 9 stages... maths fail.

On a serious note though, if you're having 9 stages (some of which are more controversial) you need 2 bans. There are too many levels which massively favour certain characters for one to be effective enough.

What tam said. =p

3 strikes in a row, i hope im not the only one who sees how ******** that is

It's apparently the best way to do it, I'm not really sure how to work out a better method either.

Uhhhhh...



Right here, lol.

I don't want to sound like VA, but did you read my post? I clearly did say that, whilst individual stages may be considered too biased to play the first game on (because winning the first game does put you at an advantage), other stages are considered allowable on the roster because they balance in conjunction with other stages (as you get one counterpick stage each).

I did. Actually, in all honesty I mis-read and thought you meant the traits of the stage itself (i.e. FD being "Neutral" because it doesn't really do a lot).

Yes, exactly, the argument behind having "counterpick" stages is that some stages may be considered not "fair" enough for game one, but fair enough to play on for the remaining set on. My argument is that I feel that any stage that is considered fair enough for tournament play should be deemed fair enough for game 1 (with stage striking). By not allowing a stage to be played game one because it's "too biased", you are essentially admitting that the stage significantly alters the outcome of a match, and therefore it shouldn't even be played in the first place.

I strongly disagree with communities attempting to "balance" a game by removing non-broken elements, I feel that if it's not broken it should be on, regardless of balance. So, for me, I don't really consider balancing match-ups at all when making a stage list (which seems to be your main criticism, am I right?)

 

[J03]

i played this melee game for a while back in the day, we used to use this method called stage striking and everyone thought it was amazing, im guessing that nowadays some mong has come along and tried to make 'supa stage striking'

what a mong

 

[rustediron]

By not allowing a stage to be played game one because it's "too biased", you are essentially admitting that the stage significantly alters the outcome of a match, and therefore it shouldn't even be played in the first place.

I really don't see why the latter follows from the former.

Smash is one of the very few (if not the only) fighting game in which the stage plays a significant role in the outcome of the match. How you play the match also changes quite substantially depending on the stage, and again, that's one of the defining traits of smash. Whilst I'm hesitant to allow stages like Great Bay or Mushroom Kingdom, simply because matches on those stages aren't the kind of matches that I like to play this game for, I think quite a generous dosage of flexibility in stage selection is needed to keep the 'spirit of the game'.

Essentially, you seem to be far too concerned with having individual matches being fair, rather than the fairness of a set overall. Your method of striking after every game means that, regardless of how wide you make your stagelist, the vast majority of games will end up being played on the same few stages that are thought by the community to be the fairest.

The current stagelist and system of stage-striking for the first match, and then counterpicking (with bans) thereafter captures a very delicate balance of flexibility, fairness throughout the set, and fairness for individual matches that needn't be changed.

 

[Jolteon]

I really don't see why the latter follows from the former.

Well, if a stage is that bad, why allow it to even be on in the first place?

Smash is one of the very few (if not the only) fighting game in which the stage plays a significant role in the outcome of the match. How you play the match also changes quite substantially depending on the stage, and again, that's one of the defining traits of smash. Whilst I'm hesitant to allow stages like Great Bay or Mushroom Kingdom, simply because matches on those stages aren't the kind of matches that I like to play this game for, I think quite a generous dosage of flexibility in stage selection is needed to keep the 'spirit of the game'.

yes, it is a unique game in that sense.

Essentially, you seem to be far too concerned with having individual matches being fair, rather than the fairness of a set overall. Your method of striking after every game means that, regardless of how wide you make your stagelist, the vast majority of games will end up being played on the same few stages that are thought by the community to be the fairest.

I just mentioned that wasn't the case.

You have read my recent posts, right? It really seems that you haven't if you are still mentioning my first suggestion. The suggestion of striking every game was merely that, a suggestion that it seems has apparently diverted the focus of my primary concern. My primary concern is abolishing the difference of "neutral" and "counterpick" stages (or more accurately, just to see if it works in practice), which can be done in a plethora of ways, and not necessarily by striking every game. I made two other suggestions which do not require striking after every match, which can be read on the previous page, after it was clear that people disliked the idea of striking every game. I'm trying to be flexible to what people don't like about the idea, I literally just want to try one tournament where we play every legal stage on game one, as well as for the rest of the set.

The current stagelist and system of stage-striking for the first match, and then counterpicking (with bans) thereafter captures a very delicate balance of flexibility, fairness throughout the set, and fairness for individual matches that needn't be changed.

I could really go on about how I feel when people ban parts of the game to create pseudo-balance, but it wouldn't really be relevant at all. Let's just stick to the main point.

 

[rustediron]

I still don't understand the rationale behind abolishing the difference between neutral and counterpick stages. Stages vary in how fair they are to the cast, from pretty even stages like DL64 and FD, to debatable ones like FoD and Pokémon, and then to clearly biased ones, like Pokéfloats and Mute City. You draw the first line to narrow down the list of stages that is available to play for the first game, which needs to be as even as possible; this is best accomplished through stage striking.

These are the neutrals.

Basically, the differentiation is there because the first match has higher standards of fairness to conform to than any of the other matches in the set. It's not necessary for the 2nd or 3rd matches to conform to these standards, which is why we relax them, and allow a greater stage list for these matches.

 

[Jolteon]

I still don't understand the rationale behind abolishing the difference between neutral and counterpick stages. Stages vary in how fair they are to the cast, from pretty even stages like DL64 and FD, to debatable ones like FoD and Pokémon, and then to clearly biased ones, like Pokéfloats and Mute City. You draw the first line to narrow down the list of stages that is available to play for the first game, which needs to be as even as possible; this is best accomplished through stage striking.

These are the neutrals.

Basically, the differentiation is there because the first match has higher standards of fairness to conform to than any of the other matches in the set. It's not necessary for the 2nd or 3rd matches to conform to these standards, which is why we relax them, and allow a greater stage list for these matches.

Stages are not merited as to how they effect the cast, that is far too subjective and "drawing the line" would just result in really arbitrary decisions made by every TO ever. Stages are merited on objective qualities (i.e. stage changes, hazards, walk-offs etc.). Actually, I can't think of any rules whatsoever that are implemented because of "balance". This is why I believe stages should not be classed as "counterpicks", because I believe if the objective qualities are good enough for competitive play then they should be allowed for every game. I don't think it's a case of "we should ban this game 1 because fox ***** on this stage but allow it as a CP" <-- subjective qualities.

Stage striking is done so no one has a counterpick advantage game one, it has absolutely nothing to do with the stage selection.

I don't know, a lot of your reasoning seems to be that stage choices should be made with balance in mind, which means that my idea of stagelists is far more liberal than yours (balance falls under "irrelevant" for me, for several reasons). I literally just want to try this out one monthly (9 stage strikes first game+normal CP system post-game one) and see if it works in practice.