Smash Community and Female Robin

Arthur97

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#1
What is it with the Smash community and Female Robin. Generally, Male Robin is more popular in the actual FE fandom, but why is it just about any fan Smash content uses Female Robin almost exclusively? Is it just waifuism or what? Personally, I don't like having her stuffed down my throat, but I still usually refer to them in the plural unless referring to one in particular.
 

Circlesho

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#2
Probably just waifuism considering nobody uses male wii fit trainer and he's got abs of steel
 

Arthur97

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#3
Adding to what I said, it's to the point I actually kind of respect those bold enough to use Male Robin...though one time this person had Female Robin as their icon leading me to believe they were victims of the default glitch.
 

GM_3826

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#4
The number of fans who actually like Robin in the Fire Emblem games who play Super Smash Bros. is probably very low. So they likely prefer the female version because they find the female version more attractive than the male version, although they play the character because they enjoy playing as them. Alternatively, as is likely outside the competitive scene, they play as Robin because they find them attractive and do not really care about how they play.

Also, while female Robin is less popular than the male version, I doubt that they are less popular in general. Female Robin has a subreddit dedicated to them, and it's actually significantly more active than Olivia's. So, even if many Fire Emblem fans prefer the male version of Robin to the female one, even within the Fire Emblem fandom, there are likely many people who prefer the female version.
 

Arthur97

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#5
The number of fans who actually like Robin in the Fire Emblem games who play Super Smash Bros. is probably very low. So they likely prefer the female version because they find the female version more attractive than the male version, although they play the character because they enjoy playing as them. Alternatively, as is likely outside the competitive scene, they play as Robin because they find them attractive and do not really care about how they play.

Also, while female Robin is less popular than the male version, I doubt that they are less popular in general. Female Robin has a subreddit dedicated to them, and it's actually significantly more active than Olivia's. So, even if many Fire Emblem fans prefer the male version of Robin to the female one, even within the Fire Emblem fandom, there are likely many people who prefer the female version.
Neither are unpopular, but also remember that "waifus" are much more likely to get subreddits. Besides, subreddits aren't exactly accurate as Lucina's just recently became public.
 
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Zareidriel

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#6
I don't think it's an errant plague of "waifuism" to be honest. She doesn't have that kind of love or popularity. Granted she probably has a few more husbandos with the rise of other games she's in like Heroes, Warriors, and Ultimate, but I doubt that most people who play female Robin consider her their waifu.

If anything, I think it comes down to two simple things:
1. Man like girl. Girl hot. Look at girl. (90%+ of the smash fanbase is male)
2. The female voice actor is vastly superior.

I use exclusively female Robin, and for me, it's mostly #2, with a few sprinkles of #1.
 

Arthur97

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#7
I don't think it's an errant plague of "waifuism" to be honest. She doesn't have that kind of love or popularity. Granted she probably has a few more husbandos with the rise of other games she's in like Heroes, Warriors, and Ultimate, but I doubt that most people who play female Robin consider her their waifu.

If anything, I think it comes down to two simple things:
1. Man like girl. Girl hot. Look at girl. (90%+ of the smash fanbase is male)
2. The female voice actor is vastly superior.

I use exclusively female Robin, and for me, it's mostly #2, with a few sprinkles of #1.
I would hardly call her voice acting superior. Especially if other sources are taken like Warriors where she's kind of flat in the voice department. I think he's cooler than Female Robin, doesn't make it objectively true.

And to clarify, by waifuism, I do not refer to actually thinking she is their wife, but rather picking just cause cute girls.

But whatever the reason, most of the community outright acts like he isn't there and as someone who almost only uses him, I find it offputting.
 
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Zareidriel

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#8
Know I'm being super opinionated about the voice acting but around here that's the majority opinion, at least for their performances in Smash. Interestingly enough there was someone else who had the exact same opinion as you in Smash 4. I don't know what to say though lol, people are gonna like what they're gonna like and it seems a little silly to expect anything different. Maybe she is more popular, it would make sense to me. I like her personality better. I'm going to gender Robin as a "she" because that's what I like to do. I guess that's just how it is. And even if there are less, there are plenty of male Robin fans and users too. I don't think anyone is...acting like he isn't there. I'll say she. I'll use female Robin. But I'm not like denying the male version's existence by doing so.

I guess your question is, "Why?" If by "waifuism" you mean that, just because she's a female, then yes, I feel like that's a big factor here. But that's not the whole story.
 
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Folt

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#9
Know I'm being super opinionated about the voice acting but around here that's the majority opinion, at least for their performances in Smash. Interestingly enough there was someone else who had the exact same opinion as you in Smash 4. I don't know what to say though lol, people are gonna like what they're gonna like and it seems a little silly to expect anything different. Maybe she is more popular, it would make sense to me. I like her personality better. I'm going to gender Robin as a "she" because that's what I like to do. I guess that's just how it is. And even if there are less, there are plenty of male Robin fans and users too. I don't think anyone is...acting like he isn't there. I'll say she. I'll use female Robin. But I'm not like denying the male version's existence by doing so.

I guess your question is, "Why?" If by "waifuism" you mean that, just because she's a female, then yes, I feel like that's a big factor here. But that's not the whole story.
Eh, if we're arguing preference, then Male Robin wins hands down. He's better looking and David Vincent is a treasure.

That said, I believe the amount of F!Robin users in the Smash Community is a mix of GM_3826 and your opinion: a mix of "males want to stare at pretty girls" and "they don't really know the character outside of Smash" (just look at Smash fans clamoring for Roy for another example of someone who benefits from their background outside of Smash not being well known) and Female Robin's more aggressive VAing outside of grunts.

Outside of that, M!Robin is significantly more popular and has more push behind him, doing better on both CYL polls for Fire Emblem Heroes. (14,149 vs. 10,387 on the first poll and 10,912 vs. 5,481 on the second.)
 

Arthur97

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#10
It does seem a bit excessive though when showcases for stuff like FS and who can jump higher uses Female Robin though despite Male Robin being the default.

Plus, I really can't get behind Female Robin's personality as she's kind of a jerk. And I've held the opinion for a while that Male Robin just wears the coat better.
 
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Zareidriel

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#11
It's funny you say that Arthur, a lot of us who prefer female Robin like her precisely because of her attitude haha, just as Folt says. But isn't it unfair to us that just because male Robin is the first skin that he should be used more often? One of the greatest things about our character is that they're available in both flavors, both in the source game and in this one; trying to make one gender more official than the other outside of personal preference (like the FS and jumping youtube videos you mentioned, which were random personal preference) is kinda like saying "screw you" to the other side and limits Robin's uniqueness as an avatar. You guys already got the CGI character intro in 4, the amiibo, and the first character slot, isn't that enough? :crying: If anything you should consider yourselves lucky, I feel like it's the female Robin players that get screwed over more often when it comes to that stuff.

You brought up some good points Folt, and it's things like that that indicate male Robin has plenty of fans on his own, through the various games. Now the more interesting question, to me, becomes, "Why is male Robin more popular in Heroes and female more popular in Smash?". My guess would be something to do with a higher ratio of girls playing Heroes, since Smash is a fighting game I feel like there is a good percentage less ladies playing it compared to the easier-to-access Heroes. But there could be more to it, like stats and stuff, but I didn't play much Heroes so I don't really know.
 

Arthur97

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#12
There's attitude, and then rubbing someone's trauma in their faces.

Also, being the default doesn't seem to have done us many favors.

I wouldn't say it's the male/female ratio of Heroes players so much as it is people who have actually played Awakening and have attachment to Male Robin. If anything, male players may be more likely to prefer Male Robin in that case. Though, the polls brought up are interesting as they are not without Smash influence since Roy did so well despite not being very well liked by the FE community. It's also probably largely responsible for Ike's popularity (difference being the FE community adores him for the most part as well). So, it could be that just the active members go for Female Robin.
 

Folt

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#13
It's funny you say that Arthur, a lot of us who prefer female Robin like her precisely because of her attitude haha, just as Folt says. But isn't it unfair to us that just because male Robin is the first skin that he should be used more often? One of the greatest things about our character is that they're available in both flavors, both in the source game and in this one; trying to make one gender more official than the other outside of personal preference (like the FS and jumping youtube videos you mentioned, which were random personal preference) is kinda like saying "screw you" to the other side and limits Robin's uniqueness as an avatar. You guys already got the CGI character intro in 4, the amiibo, and the first character slot, isn't that enough? :crying: If anything you should consider yourselves lucky, I feel like it's the female Robin players that get screwed over more often when it comes to that stuff.

You brought up some good points Folt, and it's things like that that indicate male Robin has plenty of fans on his own, through the various games. Now the more interesting question, to me, becomes, "Why is male Robin more popular in Heroes and female more popular in Smash?". My guess would be something to do with a higher ratio of girls playing Heroes, since Smash is a fighting game I feel like there is a good percentage less ladies playing it compared to the easier-to-access Heroes. But there could be more to it, like stats and stuff, but I didn't play much Heroes so I don't really know.
Casual play and possibly a larger female fanbase could be a part of it, but the top scoring females scored higher than the top-scoring males so I wouldn't say that's the whole story.

My theory is basically that there's a disparity between FE vs. Smash fans when it comes to who gravitates towards which Robin (and, generally, given the attitude of Smash fans towards FE nowadays, I have a feeling that modern FE fans nowadays get turned off by Smash because they associate it with loudmouths who literally want to see a franchise they like burn to the ground for increasingly petty reasons), and the FE fans are significantly more numerous, a disparity that might have been caused by Smash 4 itself since I believe Female Robin was slightly more popular before they made it into Smash. Also, in my opinion: It doesn't help that while Female Robin's attitude is seen as great by Smash fans, FE fans who did play the game where Robin debuted find her quotes a bit tuned up or exaggerated so maybe some FE fans of F!Robin who bought Smash 4 and played the character felt a disconnect with Smash's depiction of Female Robin (I believe there are significantly less complaints of this nature directed towards the Male Robin, both here and elsewhere) which might have possibly turned them off the character.

For some other possible reasons: it also doesn't help that M!Robin was marketed as the default Robin which brought some really nice perks like an amiibo which in turn guaranteed appearances outside of Smash, but I think a key reason for F!Robin ultimately getting overshadowed is due to the "female FE Avatar unit" getting another, exceedingly more popular representative in Corrin who I think feels similiar to Smash F!Robin without the disconnect and who is also incredibly popular among the FE fanbase. And also because she represented the path with the characters that more people wanted to play with of the two paths and because marketing the Fates paths as two separate games meant each gender version could be used as the face for one of the two (with the other being repped on the other side) which makes it much easier to include and market both as separate characters.

And of course, using the Female Corrin as the face means it's much easier to market the Male Robin opposite the Female Corrin and vice versa as shown by Fire Emblem Warriors. (Here's the female Corrin having a role in the story as the face of the Fates Avatar so using the male Robin as the Awakening Avatar story representative seems pretty much a nobrainer.)

And also because Robin debuted in Smash alongside Lucina, and M!Robin x Lucina is a very popular ship so it's basically tantamount of getting your OTP and having them fight side-by-side (+ a female swordsman and a male spellcaster duo is infinitely more interesting to me than the opposite-gendered duo). If it had been Chrom + Robin instead debuting as playables in Smash 4, perhaps Female Robin might actually still be popular today since Chrom x F!Robin is also a very popular ship. Debuting as part of another's Final Smash isn't quite as notable as being fully playable.

Or, possibly something I just came to think about now; with the whole "Smash fans are hostile to Fire Emblem" thing going on, maybe disgruntled FE fans just get an aversion to F!Robin because she's a bit too associated with Smash for their liking.

Of course, because I have very little evidence to back any of these theories other than stuff I've seen and noted in the depths of my mind, I might be completely right or completely off-base.
 

Arthur97

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#14
I still find it weird that people like Female Robin's attitude where she straight up insults a highly traumatized person with one of their greatest fears. That said, I think both Robins are actually fairly in character which seems a bit rare for FE and Smash. Female Robin often seems to act out more in her unique supports (like throwing or threatening to throw something at Chrom in the first three of theirs even though it was explicitly her fault in one. Or throwing figs at Lon'qu. Or Yarne's) and she and Lucina really don't seem to get along the best if their support is anything to go by as it seems by the end of A, they aren't so much friends as they agree to stay out of each other's way.

I also want to say, that if you primarily used a male avatar in Awakening, then you are probably more likely to use Male Robin. At least unless your avatar was significantly different than him.

Also, one of the reasons, if not the only one, that my brother gives for using Female Robin is that she says the Scales line right. Admittedly, that is a little odd considering he said it right in the trailer, but it's not that big of a deal for me.

Edit: They also seem to be doing the same thing for the Pokemon Trainers despite Red being more established and both of them being, what, twelve?
 
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#15
One of the greatest things about our character is that they're available in both flavors, both in the source game and in this one;
I think this is probably the best way to end this thread. At the end of the day they gave Robin a second gender option when at the time no one else did (I admittedly can't remember if Villager had been shown to have a female costume when they showed Robin's or not). I use male Robin because I had used male Robin in Awakening but if I'm honest my favorite color set for them is F!Robin's red one.

I think trying to debate this won't accomplish much because it's 100% opinion based and guess work. It's also really no big deal which version anyone uses.
 

Arthur97

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#16
I think this is probably the best way to end this thread. At the end of the day they gave Robin a second gender option when at the time no one else did (I admittedly can't remember if Villager had been shown to have a female costume when they showed Robin's or not). I use male Robin because I had used male Robin in Awakening but if I'm honest my favorite color set for them is F!Robin's red one.

I think trying to debate this won't accomplish much because it's 100% opinion based and guess work. It's also really no big deal which version anyone uses.
Pretty sure both Wii Fit Trainers were shown before they were even revealed.
 
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#17
Pretty sure both Wii Fit Trainers were shown before they were even revealed.
Okay I went and rewatched the trailers and while I think you're right that they had shown you could be either WFT, Robin's trailer specifically shows both genders while WFT does not.

Either way the original point I was making still stands.
 

Folt

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#18
Okay I went and rewatched the trailers and while I think you're right that they had shown you could be either WFT, Robin's trailer specifically shows both genders while WFT does not.

Either way the original point I was making still stands.
To be honest, M!Robin was basically the star of that trailer (and Lucina). F!Robin was kind of there as an afterthought. The Koopalings and Female Corrin were treated better in the Bowser Jr. and Corrin trailers. (I also think the AC Cloud and B1!Bayonetta also got better treatment than F!Robin in all cases.)
 
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#19
To be honest, M!Robin was basically the star of that trailer (and Lucina). F!Robin was kind of there as an afterthought. The Koopalings and Female Corrin were treated better in the Bowser Jr. and Corrin trailers. (I also think the AC Cloud and B1!Bayonetta also got better treatment than F!Robin in all cases.)
again that doesn't really affect my original point but I was talking more about Robin being first more than anything.
 

Folt

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#20
again that doesn't really affect my original point but I was talking more about Robin being first more than anything.
The first is probably either the Villagers, Alph, or Male Wii Fit Trainer. All were announced to be in as alts before we even knew about Robin.
 
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#21
The first is probably either the Villagers, Alph, or Male Wii Fit Trainer. All were announced to be in as alts before we even knew about Robin.
It still doesn't affect my original point. Robin got their second gender as an alt costume right when they were added. And it doesn't matter because it's all a matter of opinion and guess work and it really doesn't matter what costume anyone uses.
 

Folt

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#22
It still doesn't affect my original point. Robin got their second gender as an alt costume right when they were added. And it doesn't matter because it's all a matter of opinion and guess work and it really doesn't matter what costume anyone uses.
Technically, Robin got their second gender as an alt costume a couple minutes after their big reveal because the whole reveal was over and done with when we came around to Chrom and confirmation that he was part of Robin's FS. Compared to the Koopalings, F!Corrin, or even the Villagers and Male Wii Fit Trainer who specifically got updates dedicated to them, Female Robin's confirmation rings more like an afterthought.
 
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#23
Technically, Robin got their second gender as an alt costume a couple minutes after their big reveal because the whole reveal was over and done with when we came around to Chrom and confirmation that he was part of Robin's FS. Compared to the Koopalings, F!Corrin, or even the Villagers and Male Wii Fit Trainer who specifically got updates dedicated to them, Female Robin's confirmation rings more like an afterthought.
You're missing the forest for the trees.

They gave Robin both genders as an alt costume when they didn't have to. No other character in previous games had an alt costume that had such drastic differences and yet they felt it was important to give that choice to people playing Robin.

And the main point I was making in my original post was that there is no point to discuss why some people prefer one cosmetic thing over another because at the end of the day all we're doing is guessing and it's really none of our business which alt anyone uses.

As an additional point, F!Robin is about the least "sexy" dressed female in video games wearing long baggy pants, a loose shirt, and a large overcoat.
 

Zareidriel

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#24
Folt, the way you keep talking about how and when exactly Robin got both genders compared to Wii Fit Trainer and the rest, getting more and more technical while shocktarts keeps trying to say how much it doesn't matter and you're missing the original point is nothing short of endearing [content redacted] :chrono:
 
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#25
You could have probably left out this last part.

(I'll edit my quote taking it out if you remove it from yours too.)
 
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Zareidriel

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#26
Nah I like to live on the edge, take risks and say what I mean. I'm usually pretty good at doing that without offending people but it still pretty much always comes back to bite me in the *** later. But I can also guarantee every single person on this Robin board does things that are "a little bit on the spectrum" lol. It's probably just a quality of nerds and their obsessions
 
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#27
Nah I like to live on the edge, take risks and say what I mean. I'm usually pretty good at doing that without offending people but it still pretty much always comes back to bite me in the *** later. But I can also guarantee every single person on this Robin board does things that are "a little bit on the spectrum" lol. It's probably just a quality of nerds and their obsessions
I guess you do you but personally I find that there are much more creative ways to describe people without using mental disabilities.
 

Zareidriel

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#28
I'm not sure if you do this in your peer groups shock, but in mine, we talk about mental disabilities and illness and such with a bit of a light heart. It's good to keep their struggles in mind, and to respect them, but I don't think it's any reason to make the subject taboo and mega-offensive. Most of my friends have some form of mental disability or illness and we talk to each other pretty much the same way. If anyone has a problem with what I said, they'll tell me or I get banned or something. But I don't think it's necessary to call me out for using relatively minor elements of mental disabilities in my jab.
 
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#29
I'm not sure if you do this in your peer groups shock, but in mine, we talk about mental disabilities and illness and such with a bit of a light heart. It's good to keep their struggles in mind, and to respect them, but I don't think it's any reason to make the subject taboo and mega-offensive. Most of my friends have some form of mental disability or illness and we talk to each other pretty much the same way. If anyone has a problem with what I said, they'll tell me or I get banned or something. But I don't think it's necessary to call me out for using relatively minor elements of mental disabilities in my jab.
Even if you know someone who is autistic and doesn't mind you using it as an insult that doesn't mean everyone feels that way. At the end of the day you're still using something that someone was born with and has no control over as a way to insult someone else, like I said you can do what you want but that doesn't sit right with me.

Besides that, because this is a public board even if you, me, and the guy you said it to all didn't mind someone else reading it could still find it offensive and report you. I was just trying to look out for ya but since you don't seem to care I guess I won't either.

Also this whole discussion is wildly off topic so this will be my last post on the matter.
 

Zareidriel

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#30
The only part I'm going to correct you on is "using it as an insult", as I believe I was not insulting anyone, merely joking with them. I even ended it with an emote!

But besides that I'm also pretty much done with this thread too. I think we've said pretty much everything that can be said about Arthur's comments and observations about the female Robin-dominated smash community.
 
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Folt

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#32
You're missing the forest for the trees.

They gave Robin both genders as an alt costume when they didn't have to. No other character in previous games had an alt costume that had such drastic differences and yet they felt it was important to give that choice to people playing Robin.

And the main point I was making in my original post was that there is no point to discuss why some people prefer one cosmetic thing over another because at the end of the day all we're doing is guessing and it's really none of our business which alt anyone uses.

As an additional point, F!Robin is about the least "sexy" dressed female in video games wearing long baggy pants, a loose shirt, and a large overcoat.
Corrin? Pokémon Trainer in Ultimate?

Also, your bolded point applies equally as much to Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Olimar, and Bowser Jr. for the same reasons (as well as Corrin with DLC). Robin is not special in that regard.

Also, I think that last point actually goes to Wendy.
 
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#33
Corrin? Pokémon Trainer in Ultimate?
They came after Robin so not relevant to my point

Also, your bolded point applies equally as much to Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Olimar, and Bowser Jr. for the same reasons (as well as Corrin with DLC). Robin is not special in that regard.
Villager does not have the same level of difference in the models as Robin does because of the nature of the AC characters being fairly gender neutral, Wii Fit Trainer is similar but technically in reverse where they added the guy when they didn't have to so not exactly the same, Olimar is again similar but not one where they added a second gender instead adding a second character, and Bowser Jr. like Olimar is adding other characters not genders. Robin is special because in their game you choose their gender and therefore different people have a different view of which gender Robin is and they gave you that same choice when they didn't have to.

Also, I think that last point actually goes to Wendy.
While hardly conventionally sexy it is clear her design is supposed to represent an attractive and sexy koopa, with thick lips with lipstick, high heels, oversized jewelry and bow, and is frequently shown blowing kisses or with hearts around her. Robin is not treated any different as a male or female and female Robin's design is exactly the same as male Robin's with no changes to make her "sexy".

And again, you're still missing the point. The fact is we have a choice and to judge people for making what you feel to be the wrong choice is silly. It shouldn't matter which costume you pick for Robin.
 
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#36
Every little bit. I even use default Male Robin as my online icon.
Is that so? Nice to see that I’m not the only male Robin user. I feel like I don’t have a good reason to be crapped on by my friends since I use male Robin. Although he’s technically the canon one, they call me gay because I don’t play the female. Even though I know they would rather use basically any other female character.
Such hypocrites.
Also I like your pfp. #LucinaIsBessWaifu
 

Arthur97

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#37
Is that so? Nice to see that I’m not the only male Robin user. I feel like I don’t have a good reason to be crapped on by my friends since I use male Robin. Although he’s technically the canon one, they call me gay because I don’t play the female. Even though I know they would rather use basically any other female character.
Such hypocrites.
Also I like your pfp. #LucinaIsBessWaifu
I've run into some others here and there. I feel most guys who didn't play Awakening just default to girl. Unfortunately, most pros don't seem to have played it. I think ZeRo wasn't even sure if Lucina was royalty if that tells you how little some pros know about their characters.

Though, I wouldn't say canon.

Also, thanks, I can PM you the source if you want.
 
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#38
I've run into some others here and there. I feel most guys who didn't play Awakening just default to girl. Unfortunately, most pros don't seem to have played it. I think ZeRo wasn't even sure if Lucina was royalty if that tells you how little some pros know about their characters.
Well I recently got into FE, and after playing Fire Emblem Awakening (first FE game) I really got insight on how cool the characters were. I wasn’t a huge fan of Robin at first, but when I played FE Awakening, I opened up to him. Not gonna lie, I originally used the red female Robin before playing FE Awakening. And yes, pro players need to learn more about their characters.

Also, about the pfp, please do.
 

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#39
I play female Robin over Male. While both are near identical in appearance, I'm just not a fan of Male Robin's hair. It's your standard, male JRPG 'messy hair' like Cloud, Ike, Roy, ect ect.

Robin has twin ponytails, which no one else has.
 

Arthur97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,698
#40
I generally find Male Robin cooler myself. It's not the only or even main reason I use him, but it's there.

Plus, Female Robin's a jerk. Like, crossing the line jerk. Falco has attitude, Female Robin is a jerk.
 
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