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Data "Smash Ain't no Joke" - Little Mac Matchup Discussion Thread

Champ Gold

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Wow, this thread just died hardcore LOL

Anyone have opinions on the Corrin and Bayonetta matchups?
Corrin and Bayo are really hard matchups for Mac but Bayo is probably easier to deal with
 

shinhed-echi

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I wouldn't touch Corrin with mittens. Not after that 3% counter KO.

Bayo on the other hand, I won't shy away from. But it still looks like it's in her favor.

Fun fact, I once Side+B'd to recover just when she used Dsmash near the edge, and I activated the hitbox to clank with her hitbox, and managed to reach the edge safely.
 

Zoramine Fae

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Alright, I'm busy typing up yet another Little Mac guide (This time actually being better and more coherent, as well as significantly longer, than my previous two and more like my Roy one. But longer.) and I'm writing up information on each character matchups. I'm certain that many of you are more knowledgeable in some matchups than I am, and I'm moderately good at a few but my best currently are Cloud, Roy, Link, the Little Mac Ditto, Sheik, and Jigglypuff. But I need some help with almost all of the other matchups.

Does anyone have specific matchup knowledge that they could give me; specific advantages Little Mac has in matchups (most of which are things such as problems getting past armor, bad neutral game, Little Mac having better frame data) and things they could have in matchups (Projectiles, specific attacks that can royally screw him over. Like Din's Fire isn't an ultra-good projectile and can be countered, but things like Pit's Arrows can be insanely difficult to deal with. Other things can be easily edgeguarded by good edgeguarders, problems approaching, or just a general problem or so.)

Thanks to anyone that can offer, I'll probably be asking around some other threads for specific matchups that I have little to no clue on, but I was hoping the Mac boards would be helpful too.
 

Zoramine Fae

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what is lil mac worst match up besides sheik? trying to find someone to counter him
Lots of grapplers like Ness, Mario, and Donkey Kong can be really infuriating, since they can shield grab you and then just chuck you offstage and go for a gimp. They also have good stage presense generally and have some weird niche that makes them really good agianst Mac (Down Throw Forward Air, FLUDD and Cape, Cargo Throw). Kirby I also find pretty difficult but he has no neutral game compared to ours so its more even than many people think it is. Jigglypuff, hilariously, does pretty well against him due to her constant aerial game and Mewtwo does similarly but he's just been buffed so much he's a very viable character now.
 

AxelVDP

Smash Apprentice
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I posted this earlier

tbh I think that Mac loses the Ike matchup like 60:40
the best and easiest way to win against a Little Mac is by edgeguarding him
in order to do this we have to look at
1) how easy it is to win neutral against Mac
2) how easy can you convert your neutral wins into an edgeguard situation
3) how strong are your edgeguarding tools (in this particular matchup)
(obviously, there's more to a matchup than this, but this stuff is pretty important)

now, in the Ike scenario
1) Mac hates big disjointed hitboxes, huge range + good autocancels = we have to respect a lot of his moves, rushing in is no good with a bad dash to shield animation, walking is fine but it gives the Ike player more time to do Ike stuff
Ike's long jumpsquat helps mitigating this to a certain extent
overall I'd say they are pretty evenly matched in this regard
2) things Ike is probably going to hit you with in neutral: dtilt, grab, nair, fair
- dtilt: comboes into fair (-> Mac is likely going offstage)
- grab: uthrow fair boys (his other throws are pretty good too, having a very low angle of trajectory)
- nair: once again, it comboes into fair
- fair: offstage you go
3) fair alone would already be pretty ****ing deadly against a recovering Mac, but it's not even the best move Ike has for edgeguarding him!!
(I'm sure most of you know, but Little Mac cannot sweetspost the ledge with his specials) (well, actually he can but only during the beginning of his moves, like Cloud with climmhazard basically)
dtilt is a quick option that can hit Mac even below the edge, tho I'm positive that on stages with slanted edges like battlefield you can clip him with upB from underneath before he can hit you, it also does not cover a "high" recovery (aka Mac sideBing above him)
eruption, same usual story but easier to hit because lol it's Little Mac, can also cover a "high" recovery attempt BUT can still be clipped with upB
FSMASH, covers high recoveries easily, hits below the ledge AND can be spaced to avoid being clipped by upB even on slanted edges, I really don't get why Ike players like Ryo never use this move when edgeguarding a Mac, it's almost literally a win button
Ike has probably the strongest edgeguarding game of all the characters in the Mac matchup O_O

extras: Mac also struggles at landing (though he at least has a few options like a counter and a fast falling speed) ESPECIALLY against characters with disjoints, and Ike is pretty decent at this stuff too

positives: Ike has the right physics+hurtbox to be susceptible against Mac's setups for big %s windows, also recovering low can be risky for Ike thanks to the great ammount of armored moves Mac can use against Aether
what do you guys think?
 

shinhed-echi

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Kirby, Mario, and most swordsmen are a real pain.

But yeah, Kirby is pretty much a next to impossible match for me. I DO ocassionally beat a friend of mine who uses Kirby really well, but maybe he just lacks the Mac matchup knowledge.
 

tomvanharmelen

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uFsmash is your friend against kirby. super armor pretty much destroys any approaches kirby has.
Dair is a pain to deal with but you can just shield it, hold shield even after kirby lands because he'll most likely use Utilt after Dair.
Once you figure out the timing of Utilt, it's game on.
use Dtilt and ftilt to space properly and deal with crouching kirby.
 

Brando_Cackers

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I'm having a really big issue with ROB and Diddy Kong. I play Mac and I'm a bit lazy to find any source on how to deal with the MU. Can anyone help me out?
 

Zoramine Fae

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I'm having a really big issue with ROB and Diddy Kong. I play Mac and I'm a bit lazy to find any source on how to deal with the MU. Can anyone help me out?
:4rob:
Not really knowledgeable here because I don't actually know the character vs Mac that well, although I know some basic stuff that'll probably help.

If the Gyro is on the ground, grab it. Its so amazing. Z-Drops bounce them a really low and short distance into a Rising Uppercut or Up Smash, and cover ledge getups. If you throw it up its a zoning tool that has an unpredictable landing time. Down and both side directions are just for direct hits. It will disappear after 1 hit unless you grab it before it hits the ground, so remember that.

His KO options are Up Smash, Forward Smash closest to R.O.B.'s body, Up Air, and Up Throw. If he throws you offstage with Fthrow or BThrow he also can get KOs with lasers to gimp or Forward Airs to gimp as well. Neutral Air at high %s can KO but its really unlikely. Up Smash is rare since while its a great option it isn't true out of anything barring a Gyro Z-Drop, which even then can be shielded unless you get hard read. Forward Smash is incredibly weak far from R.O.B. and is probably the second worst FSmash for doing that job at the sourspot. Up Air is a kill confirm off a Down Throw but if you DI properly (which is very hard to do) you can live to long percents. Up Throw KOs off platforms pretty easily but on the ground just DI away and you are fine.

R.O.B. struggles against Super Armor and losing his Gyro; if he can't do his normal tools he has to rely on zoning with Lasers which isn't very much a great plan as they have a recharge time. His large hitbox also makes him weak to Up Tilt and Down Tilt combos, so just keep linking those and you are good. Jab won't do much since he won't be hitting right in front of you or landing in front of you often - same goes for Forward Tilt, but it is a KO option. His recovery also is basically impossible to gimp due to how good his Up Special is, so avoid using Down Smash but instead avoid an Up Air or an off-ledge Forward Air.



:4diddy:
Personally Diddy is one of my harder fight-against characters since I suck against any form of aggression, but Diddy isn't too bad. If you get hit by a banana, prepare to DI for a Down/Up Throw Up Air or if you are at around 60-70% DI in for a Back/Forward Throw near the ledge. Banana is really key since whoever has access to it immediately has control of the match; Diddy can get Up Smash, Forward Smash, and a Grab off it, while you can get a Running Up Smash or Grab since nothing else has enough reward to warrant using. Diddy's lightweightyness makes him relatively easy to KO, but the fact his recovery is extremely long reaching and has two parts for horizontal recovery makes him harder than R.O.B. by a long shot (Personally I have it as a 55/45, Diddy's favor).

If Diddy has the banana, Jab. Jab clashes with Banana and you transition into Jab 2, then back to Jab 1. It also stuffs most of Diddy's approaches. If he's readying to get a banana, go aggressive and force him to not get it or space you out with a Fair or Nair - dash shield if you can and then punish. If the Banana is on the ground, Down Tilt will instantly destroy the Banana and cause Diddy to have to get another. If you see they are retreating from the on-ground Banana, Dash Attack to grab it or jump and airdodge right before landing to grab it. Basically, don't let Diddy have the banana.

If in the neutral and he's spamming Peanut Popgun, don't approach or fall for any of his bull****. He's just waiting for you to approach. If anything this gives you a free opportunity to practice Powershielding. At low %s he can Down Throw Bair BAir, but don't freak out over it because this is basically normal stuff. Just DI in. At high %s he will try being risky to get the KO, and at this point if you have a KO Punch call him out on an approach with constant dash shielding and spotdodges or FSmash him if necessary.
 

Bleezyy

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Lost to a sonic today im so upset. He was not dying! I had him at like 147 percent . I need tips
 

Mini_Mac

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Sooooo.... is this thread dead or something?..... I'd love to at least attempt to revive it. I have a matchup discussion suggestion :)

:4littlemac:vs:4pikachu:.

I struggle immensly with this matchup. It is extremely difficult to know where :4pikachu: is going to go and approaching :4pikachu: is by far one of the most gut-wrenchingly difficult tasks in the game as :4littlemac:. I can't seem to land any Dtilts or Utilts and getting the Dtilt to Up-B kill confirm is crazy hard because of it.
I even keep stumbling upon the dumb mechanic where:4pikachu:'s body is so short that when there comes an open window for me to punish with a smash attack (sometimes for the kill), his stupid body height constantly makes the Fsmash whiff...

On top of that, his crazy up-B mechanic where he can zig-zag from side to side still hits me when I'm shielding 50% of the time because my shield is sometimes short making my ability to approach that much more difficult and risky even when I see the attack coming.

Any tips anyone?
 

Mini_Mac

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I'm just gonna cut to the chase.

What are the best strategies for fighting against :4megaman: as :4littlemac:?

This MU makes me literally want to rip my hair off my head because :4megaman:'s projectiles are always all over the place and they screw up my approach especially his lemons.

Can someone please help me out here? This MU is just pure insanity! I am already aware that I need to mix up recovery options (like I should against all characters) and be ready to tech when I'm recovering low but even then, this MU makes me want to KO punch a hole in my TV.

EDIT: It has been a very long while since someone posted here but I have a serious question so I'm asking it even though i already asked a MU question last time.
 
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