Smash 4 may relie a lot on counter-picking than ever before?

[RanserSSF4]

We all know that counter-picking can be a good or bad thing in fighting games, including Smash Bros.

However, unlike the previous Smash Bros titles, it seems, from what I've seen, counter-picking will probably be more reliable and very important for this game. I'm not talking about stages, I'm talking about characters.

It seems every character in Smash 4 has at least one bad match-up where in previous titles, the top 5 best characters had little to no bad match-ups, while the rest do have a decent amount or a lot.

here are a couple examples:

P.S. these are just examples of possible or actual match-ups for characters!

Duck Hunt Dog:
Best Match-ups: Bowser, Little Mac, and Captain Falcon
Even Match-ups: Sonic, Robin, and Zero Suit Samus
Worst Match-ups: Rosalina, Greninja, and Sheik

Bowser:
Best Match-ups: Mario, Pikachu, and Ness
Even Match-ups: Zero Suit Samus, Jigglypuff, and Yoshi
Worst match-ups: Duck Hunt Dog, Robin, and Greninja

Little Mac:
Best Match-ups: Wario, jigglypuff, and Zelda
Even Match-ups: Bowser, King Dedede, Bowser Jr.
Worst Match-ups: Duck Hunt Dog, Sheik, and Villager

I will test out match-ups more tomorrow when the game comes out.

If anybody has tested match-ups for characters, please let me know below and label them like I did on this post!

 

[Hameed Ziabari]

how does little mac have a good matchup against jiggly? Jiggly can just camp platforms and beat out all of little macs aerials, and even if he up-b's it would be obvious when we wanted to and she could just roll and rest punish.

Other than that, for character counterpicks to work it would have to work like stage counterpicks, loser picks. The loser should be able to change their character, but the winner would have to stay.

Then it raises more questions, can the winner change their custom specials? Assuming they're legal, different specials will have different matchups with different characters.

Overall, it seems that smash 4 will have the most in depth metagame in the series.

 

[Cammed Z28]

While I am not sure if any of those comparisons are accurate, but from what I hear this phenomenon could be, just possibly, this concept of balance. yyyeaaahhhhhh "aint nuttin wrong wit it"

Lol I cant stand it any longer, I am hopping in the truck and am heading to GS to finally get my hands on my already paid for copy of new Smash memories. TTY all sometime after my first rest break

 

[RanserSSF4]

While I am not sure if any of those comparisons are accurate, but from what I hear this phenomenon could be, just possibly, this concept of balance. yyyeaaahhhhhh "aint nuttin wrong wit it"

Lol I cant stand it any longer, I am hopping in the truck and am heading to GS to finally get my hands on my already paid for copy of new Smash memories. TTY all sometime after my first rest break

As I mentioned above, I don't know every single match-up for every character. I do know for a fact that Bowser loses pretty hard to Duck Hunt Dog!

 

[The_Altrox]

Even more so if customs are tourney legal.

 

[Tristan_win]

I disagree, unless your character has a obvious hard counter you can win any match up. You shouldn't feel the need to switch to a character with a reflector every time you fight someone with range or switch to someone with a strong OoS game against a rush down character. By playing just one character you will improve much faster then those who counter pick all the time, you will know the limits of what you are capable of doing and if your good enough you will even be able to surpass them. This is why it's uncommon for the best players of the game to beat the best player with X character in a ditto as they are more accustom to their main.

Oh... about melee, obviously if a game been out for over ten years it's not unreasonable for players to master multiple characters so this point does become mute on a long enough time scale but we are talking years here.

 

[Conda]

What I'm gonna say in response to topics like this for the next 6 months:


Too early to compute.

 

[SixSaw]

Seems like at the release of every new fighting game people say it will revolve around counterpicks. It never actually happens.

 

[Fafnir]

Relying on counter picks for 'balance' is always bad for fighting games. No exceptions.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

What I'm gonna say in response to topics like this for the next 6 months:


Too early to compute.

agreed, this subforum should be completely EMPTY for at least 6 months