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Slightly Better Edge Invincibility Refresh (Tech)

Discussion in 'Pikachu' started by Mittenz, May 15, 2015.

  1. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    A common way of renewing your invisibility at the edge with a characters is to simply fast-fall and then jump to regrab the edge. This action leaves you vulnerable for at least 5 frames (if you frame perfect edge release and frame perfect jump) with pikachu.

    However if you fast fall, jump slightly earlier, and then up-b near the edge the quick attack animation will cancel and you will regrab the ledge. The whole process takes 30 frames from releasing the edge which is significant cause that's the frame your lose your invincibility, so if you frame perfect edge release you don't lose invincibility. The timing to get the 30 frames is not super strict either (two 3 frame windows).

    The main benefit compared to just jumping to regrab is reduced vulnerable frames (by at least 5 frames), and less strict in timing to minimize those frames. It also has the potential to act as an infinite ledge stall if you frame perfect edge release. Another added benefit in doing this tech is that if you fast fall for 9 frames you remain below the ledge, during any vulnerable frames before the edge regrab.

    Here are the timings I found that give you 30 frames.
    FF(7 frames)->jump (9 frames)->QA
    FF (8 frames)->jump (8 to 10 frames)->QA
    FF (9 frames)->jump( 7 to 9 frames)->QA

    Here is video if you're uncertain what I'm talking about:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjVIRiLZkYo

    What are you're guy's thoughts on this? I tried a ton of different timing combinations. There might be more/better ones.
     
    #1 Mittenz, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  2. bomono3

    bomono3
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    i think i have a new ledge stall that's what i think, good ****.
     
  3. Scatz

    Scatz
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    I know this is super old, but what if you drop off the ledge and QA from above or from the side really fast? Wouldn't that give you enough frames to be completely invincible? I do know that upBing from above has a very tight window, but that's about it.
     
    Mittenz likes this.
  4. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    Scatz, I originally was trying to do it that way, but it's not as reliable. Here's why.

    You are not able to regrab the edge within 30 frames of releasing the edge. That means if you did what you're suggesting too fast, pika would QA past the edge and plummet to his death. If you did it too slow, you would no longer be invincible and you would be above the stage where more attacks can connect. In order to remain invincible, you would have to frame perfect edge release, know the exact frame you jumped, and QA on an exact frame to time the QA to be at the edge right when invincibility runs out. So you're hitting two 1 frame windows, with a chance of SDing or being vulnerable to more attacks if you mess up.
     
  5. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    Figured out today that you can perform an option select with this by angling the up-b up and into the stage. If an opponent grabs ledge from you while performing it, you will automatically quick attack over the platform/stage or perform a stage shortened quick attack depending on your angle and timing.
     
    Boondocker likes this.
  6. Kuralesache

    Kuralesache
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    You can do a true invincible ledge stall by pressing away from the ledge to let go, then quick-attacking directly horizontally into the stage. It's a little harder to do and obviously you have to go faster, but if you're actually interested in an invincible ledge stall you should be doing this, or at least mixing it in.

    PS I have no idea why this works, cause you're not doing a cancel or anything, but I've confirmed in debug mode that you can be invincible for the full time.
     
    #6 Kuralesache, Aug 28, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  7. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    Yeah, that's the good old N64 stall.

    Like you said timing is tight if you want that to be invincible the whole time (3 one frame windows).

    Also if you don't get it perfect you have "pancake frames" at the end so you're exta likely to get hit if you opponent throws out a move.

    Also if your opponent grabs edge from you while doing that, you have very few frames to react, and very few options for moving out of it since it already uses the first part of your up-b.
     
  8. OopBop

    OopBop
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    Can I do this without the fast fall? I can do it either way I just think a c stick drop feels easier.
     
  9. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    I'm sure you can as long as frame 30 is next to the ledge. You'll need to test out the jump timings yourself.
     
    #9 Mittenz, May 27, 2016
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
  10. OopBop

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    Sweet, cheers, mang. On a side note, has anyone written a guide or is there a thread of practical up B ledge cancels around? I've searched quite a bit already and haven't found a lot.
     
    #10 OopBop, May 27, 2016
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
  11. Mittenz

    Mittenz
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    The best application I found was taking your time on the edge. If you do it correctly you're invincible during the entire regrab. So if you don't feel super comfortable getting back onto stage you can stall and see if a better option opens up. Or use it to bait an attack for an opportunity to ledgedash and punish.

    I've also had some success using it ledgehog against low recovering Marths. If you're holding edge against an off-stage Marth, often times they will stall to cause you to lose invincibility and force you off the ledge. With the up-b cancel you can maintain invincibility so if they stall they're only limiting their recovery options not forcing you into making a decision.
     
  12. OopBop

    OopBop
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    Yeah, this'd be super useful against a recovering Marth. I meant Up B edge cancelling though, lol, like how you have that Up B stright up and then to the side edge cancel tech on Dreamland and Battlefield.
     

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