Data Slicin' and Dicin' - Swordfighter Special move Showcase and Q&A Thread

[GS3K]

Welcome to Slicin' and Dicin', the thread dedicated to discussing Mii Swordfighter's special moves. The purpose of this thread is to talk the ins and outs of every one of Swordfighter's moves and how they work in conjunction with each other (and also as a more organized thread separate from the Custom Move Project thread).

To get a feel for how this thread will work out, we will talk about how every special move works for a couple of days, come to a conclusion and then move on to the next one. For every special move that reaches a conclusion, I will add it to the spoilers below:

Spoiler: Neutral B #1 - Gale Strike

• Multihit projectile with a windbox
• Beats out most non-transcendent projectiles.
• Can pop up the opponent for a nair/uair/fair for extra damage (not always guaranteed)
• It can be useful for edgeguarding and covering ledge/opponent landing options depending on positioning.
• Needs a commitment, characters with fast/aerial approach options can punish it if misused, good against characters with unreliable approach options.
• Works well with swordfighter's other moves.
• Widely MU dependent.

Spoiler: Neutral B #2 - Shuriken of Light

Spoiler: Neutral B #3 - Blurring Blade

• 
  
  • Like Marth's Shield Breaker, it gives you horizontal momentum when used in the air and fully charged.
  • Can catch rolls and edgeguard
  • Decent damage and knockback.
  • Can be used with B-reverses and Wavebounces as a mixup.
  • Good shield pressure, and a bit harder to punish when shielded.

Spoiler: Side B #1 - Airborne Assault

Spoiler: Side B #2 - Slash Launcher

Spoiler: Side B #3 - Chakram

Spoiler: Up B #1 - Stone Scabbard

• Goes upward like Ike's Aether and Kirby's Final Cutter
• Needs Airborne Assault or Slash Launcher to compensate for poor horizontal range
• Spike hitbox has a niche in trumping opponents hanging from the edge, or spiking anyone hanging from the edge without edge invincibility

Spoiler: Up B #2 - Skyward Slash Dash

Spoiler: Up B #3 - Hero's Spin

• Similar to Link's spin attack
• Strong Oos option
• Decent vertical recovery, save jump due to poor horizontal recovery
• FF fair (first two hits) -> HS and Jab 1/2 -> HS are decent mixups
• Multihits don't connect well in the air, so it's best used as a grounded offensive option

Spoiler: Down B #1 - Blade Counter

Spoiler: Down B #2 - Reversal Slash

• 
  
  • It serves as a reflector, making it useful in MUs against projectile heavy characters
  • MU dependant, sometimes counter is the better option
  • Can be used as an alternative means of gimping (only real way to gimp the Pits & RosaLuma)
  • Can occasionally lead to a follow-up (do sparingly, not guaranteed)

Spoiler: Down B #3 - Power Thrust

• Similar to Falcon Kick and Wizard's Foot
• Mobility option, MU dependant
• Tip of sword is a sweetspot that does slightly more damage
• Can punish rolls

That said, it would also be helpful to show examples of how every move works via video/gif/photo/etc. if possible.

 

[AEMehr]

Looking forward to it!

 

[Unknownkid]

Well shoot. I was about to create this. I have been busy last week with work, mother's birthday, and other things. I guess better now than never.
This was the intro below:

Spoiler

Calling all Butter Knights, SwordSpiders, Swordies or whatever you want to call yourself!
We are masters of our crafts with skills we develop on our own. It is apparent that there is no single best set for Swordfighter, but rather a variety of alternative specials which assist us in creating our own individual sword user. While we have our personal preference, it would not hurt to learn something about the other moves and their capabilities.

“As Iron sharpens Iron, so should a person sharpens another.” – Prov 27:17

So Swordfighters, I present you the Gladiators’ Pub. This will be our Special Move Spotlight. Have a seat, get something to drink or eat and let’s discuss some tips, tricks, and techniques for each special. This should be pretty self-explainable but I will go over the rules anyways:

Over the next several weeks, we will discuss about each move and what fellow peers can do with it. Depending on how fast or slow the discussion develop will determine the number of moves we do per week.

For now, we are going to do two random moves per week.


First, I will like your impression on the selected moves. I am sure by now everyone has his/her own opinions. Regardless, what players say - please be mindful, respectful and best of all open minded. I know certain moves tend to be better than others. But let’s try to be positive yet still use constructive criticism, since each special has its pros and cons. If you love the move, tells us why you love it and post what set(s) do you with it. If you despise the move, please state why you dislike it. Don’t say “it’s bad, too laggy, and Hero Spin is just better.”

Next, I want to you to spend the rest of the week using that selected Special(s). Since we are doing two moves per week, you can either find some good sets for both or sets that complement each one individually. Maybe Gale Strike works better with Counter than Power Thrust. Or Reversal Slash might give Stone Scabbard that little float it needs to recover. Get a feel of the Special, practice it in training mode, and experiment verse computers. Then once you are ready - do some friendly with friends, other players or during a tournament. If you cannot discover anything, just come back to this thread and read other players impressions, sets, and combos they found with the move. Test them yourself and see if it works for you.

Finally, around closing time- come back and with your new found knowledge – share what you have discovered. Did you learn anything new? Has your impression change or does the move still sucks? Who do you think the move work best/worst against? No matter what happen… we want to hear from you. So do not be shy. Present yourself. We are gladiators here.

Ah... oh well. Thank you GS3K for getting this started. Let's gather the gang in here.

@Masonomace Antonykun Trieste SP murdokdracul @ItalianBaptist, AEMehr , @Burgundy Blade, GS3K , @Epok, A-money2121 , @Thecombosetups, Dooms , @Caterpillor, @JimmyTheCaterpillar, @GeneralLedge, DigitalAtom6 , @Axitonium, P Pegasus Knight , @Iko-Seiko, Player -0 ,@SmashCapps, @san., Routa , @KuroganeHammer, @Oz, @Splebel @.Lavani (Berserker?), @Rhydon65 @| Big D | CHOMPY
This is everyone I found who contribute, use, or had a say about Swordfighter. I want as much of a discussion, separate opinion, and information as possible. The more the merrier as my grandmother used to say. If I am missing anyone, please add him or her here. Everyone is free to participate.

Just a couple of suggestions (well, its basically a tl:dr version of my intro/Challenge) -
Two moves per week
1) Give a First Impression on Selected Moves at the beginning of the week
- List Pros and Cons
- Discuss combos, strings, links, and sets what work well with it.
2) Next, go the lab and mess around with the Moves for the remainder of the week.
- Test in Training and against CPU. Get a feel of the move.
- Try it against Siblings, Friends or Friendlies with Strangers.
- - Ask your opponent opinions on the moves and their suggestion. Education goes both ways. They get to learn Swordfighter while you learn how to use your other skills.
- Feeling Ballzy? Aim for the top with the moves if you are allowed to use it in a tournament.
3) Finally, at the end of week - Return Here and post your conclusion.
- Did you discover anything new? Like what?
- Does the move still suck? Why?
- Don't be shy. Sharing is caring and... all that jazz.

No. You are not forced to do this. If you want to post your impression and call it a day, then I appreciate you tribute something over nothing. This, however, provides more of a complete analysis for each move, give Swordfighter the "jack of all trade" character he supposed to be, and you learn something new.

If this is too much work, then we can scratch this and do a normal special spotlight.

In the meantime [just to get our brain cooking]... It is obvious the Miis copied their moves from the rest of cast. So I ask you - What special move (yeah, just 1) do you wish Swordfighter could have copied? Call me weird but I kind of want Fox's Illusion.

 

[Trieste SP]

I'll get my notes.

 

[Ikenna]

Are we allowed to make small statements/comments here?

 

[A-money2121]

Thanks for calling me over!

(Puts on safety goggles)

Time to get to work!

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Thank you for the tag, but what good is exploring wondering what move Swordfighter could or should have copied... when we could be exploring moves the character actually has?

 

[Dooms]

I'm totally able to put in some work for this. What moves are we starting with?

Honestly, if I could have any move for Mii Swordfighter, it'd probably be Marth's dolphin slash. :x

 

[Unknownkid]

Are we allowed to make small statements/comments here?

Hmm... is up to GS3K. I see nothing wrong with it.

Thank you for the tag, but what good is exploring wondering what move Swordfighter could or should have copied... when we could be exploring moves the character actually has?

I believe you misread my last statement. We are going to explore all of Swordfighters' Special Moves. The last part was just an IceBreaker. If you can copied any special move from the rest of the cast, what move will you choose?

 

[murdokdracul]

I'mma switch to a Swordfighter avatar straight away. *Switches avatar to Yoshimitsu kickin' the crap outta Heihachi*. Okay, let's go!

If my Swordfighter could copy any move from the rest of the cast, it'd be Robin's Elwind because my main Swordfighter (the 1112 guy) is a Mii of one protagonist from my novel, who uses a sword with wind magic.

This is him:

Spoiler

His name is Vengor and he likes you very much, even if he looks a little grumpy. (That's just because he's currently losing to my Serra-from-FE7-themed Robin amiibo.)

Update:

Spoiler

He won!

 

[GS3K]

Are we allowed to make small statements/comments here?

You're fine m8

anyways, to answer the question, I guess I'd want a neutral b that functions like a charge shot.

 

[Unknownkid]

I'mma switch to a Swordfighter avatar straight away. *Switches avatar to Yoshimitsu kickin' the crap outta Heihachi*. Okay, let's go!

If my Swordfighter could copy any move from the rest of the cast, it'd be Robin's Elwind because my main Swordfighter (the 1112 guy) is a Mii of one protagonist from my novel, who uses a sword with wind magic.

This is him:

Spoiler

His name is Vengor and he likes you very much, even if he looks a little grumpy. (That's just because he's currently losing to my Serra-from-FE7-themed Robin amiibo.)

Update:

Spoiler

He won!

Wow, that's actually cool. You have the wind intro, Wind Projectile, Spinning Ball of Death, Wind Recovery and Air Reflector.

Anyways, G3SK, how you want to do this? I was thinking of choosing two moves at random because going down list is boring.

 

[GS3K]

I guess via random number generator.

 

[Antonykun]

*hoping to see actual discussion*
*sees nothing*

Spoiler

Well imma start with the first Special on the list: Gale Strike

A recurring theme you'll see with these moves is that they are "match up dependent" here's one of them.
Swordfighter whips out a Swordfighter sized multi hiboxed projectile that also has windbox properties. this move is great at eating slow projectiles like Hadoken and (Luigi) Fireballs (it does not destroy transcendental projectiles like Sheik's needles or Fox/Falco lasers) and is a precious cinnamon roll against characters who rely heavily on those moves to establish a long ranged pressure as Swordfighter can simply phase them out.

The move is a huge commitment though and characters with fast air to ground approaches like Sheik or Zero Suit Samus can often punish you from a disgustingly long range. Due to the projectile nature of the move, Gale Strike is somewhat useful at creating edgeguarding situations for the opponent.

This move is still my go to choice for neutral b's simply due to being far more unique than any other move in that button

 

[DigitalAtom6]

So Gale Strike is up first. The move is very matchup dependant like Antonykun said, because of how slow it is and what projectiles it eats. The general consensus though, is that it fairs well against slow-mid speed characters with a lot or some use in (weak) projectiles. So that's: Megaman, Samus, Mii gunner, swordfighter ditto, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser Jr., ROB and Dr. Mario.
If you were to analyse which of these characters is most used in tourney, then the Mario bros. and ROB would probably come in highest. Also of note that it is also very good against slow, hardhitting characters like Ganondorf, Charizard and Bowser because their approach options are really bad and you can just wall them out.

As for combo's/strings; there are no true combo's out of Gale Strike, but there are some unguaranteed strings. Gale Strike knocks the opponent upward a bit when they get hit. This usually means that swordfighter can get an Uair, Nair or Fair out of it. None of those aerials have follow-ups, so it's mostly for raw damage. The tornado it summons drops slowly in the air and has a windbox at the end, which is useful for edgeguards.

Personally, I really like the move, especially in the MU's it's good in. I'd say to keep this move handy anytime for those MU's and use the alternative, SoL, otherwise.

 

[Yorsh]

If you jump and Gale strike as fast as possible, you will end up doing it a little bit in the air, so it's a little bit harder to jump over it and punish mii swordfighter. Since you are just a bit over the floor, no one can run under it and the tornado goes downward anyway. I feel like doing this is always superior than doing the gale strike on the ground (it's way easier to perform with R or L set to jump btw).
Also, the tornado hits people that hang the ledge for too long, so that a good way to force them to input something.

 

[Player -0]

It hits people on ledge but endlag is so disgusting can't they usually jump roll onto stage and punish?

 

[Yorsh]

Oh good point, I will try this. Since the tornado is fairly slow, it's also possible that he is forced to roll too late, or he will get it by the tornado at the end of the roll. If your opponant knows that you are going to use it, he can just jump over it tho, but I use it from time to time (once every 3 games or so) and it works for now.

EDIT : The thing is, he has to react quiclky if he wants to jump over it (and punish), so if he doesn't expect it he won't do it. Now if he can roll (and punish) that's a problem, because he can do it way later.

EDIT : So no you can't roll and punish. If you do it too soon you get hit by the tornado, if you roll later Mii Sword's end lag is over, and he can shield or even punish your roll (when I tested, Mii was able to shield first, but I my roll was probably not frame perfect). I need to test again with my friend to be sure for the jump, but on reaction it doesn't look like you can punish the tornado.

 

[Player -0]

What about standard getup -> roll? Depends how far you are from ledge when firing the nado. How far are you testing this from?

 

[Yorsh]

Oh yeah I should have precised that : from 150 to 120% of the length of a roll, so if the guy rolls he ends up right in front of me. If i'm closer I will just go for a d tilt or something.

Standar get up+roll is way too slow, i'm pretty sure you would have to input that before mii inputs the neutral B. Also I think it doesn't matter which kind of roll it is, rolls have to much lag to punish it.

 

[Player -0]

idk. I probably don't have speed of Gale Strike and other stuff in Smash 4 down all the way. I'll try to double check this when/if I can.

 

[Unknownkid]

Dammit Antonykun. You are destroying my vision. Sigh.... Fine. Whatever. We will do Gale Strike.


Frame Data about Gale Strike and other swordfighter's moves can be found at http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mii Swordfighter Thank you KuroganeHammer.

Pros:
Multi Hit Projectile
Beat Most Projectiles - The 'List of Things Gale Strike Destroys'... Topic
Dips when going off the edge
Wind Box
Pops the opponent upwards
Slight Hover when launch in the air
Can cover Ledge Getup, Roll Getups, and Standing Getup. Depends on the position.

Cons:
Startup... 23 frames
Endlag!!! 78 frames! Holy Snaps!

Overall Gale Strike is pretty good. It works well with any set if you can deal with the Endlag. Like other said, it is matchup dependent but I tend to use it against any character. Let's talk about the wind box.

Gale Strike travels from my Swordfighter position to opposite. However, the windbox can still push Mario offstage from his current position:


Now, here is the where the Wind Box Starts and how far it pushes Mario.
->

A bit farther than Uncharged FLUDD.
Keep this in mind when tossing out Gale Strike. Position yourself if you want do damage or screw your opponent's landing/recovery. Due to this and its end lag, I find Gale Strike pretty technical.

More later this week.

 

[Antonykun]

Dammit Antonykun. You are destroying my vision. Sigh.... Fine. Whatever. We will do Gale Strike.

View attachment 80468
Frame Data about Gale Strike and other swordfighter's moves can be found at http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mii Swordfighter Thank you KuroganeHammer.

Pros:
Multi Hit Projectile
Beat Most Projectiles - The 'List of Things Gale Strike Destroys'... Topic
Dips when going off the edge
Wind Box
Pops the opponent upwards
Slight Hover when launch in the air
Can cover Ledge Getup, Roll Getups, and Standing Getup. Depends on the position.

Cons:
Startup... 23 frames
Endlag!!! 78 frames! Holy Snaps!

Overall Gale Strike is pretty good. It works well with any set if you can deal with the Endlag. Like other said, it is matchup dependent but I tend to use it against any character. Let's talk about the wind box.

Gale Strike travels from my Swordfighter position to opposite. However, the windbox can still push Mario offstage from his current position:
View attachment 80469

Now, here is the where the Wind Box Starts and how far it pushes Mario.
View attachment 80470 ->View attachment 80469

A bit farther than Uncharged FLUDD.
Keep this in mind when tossing out Gale Strike. Position yourself if you want do damage or screw your opponent's landing/recovery. Due to this and its end lag, I find Gale Strike pretty technical.

More later this week.

in the words of Sanic: "You're too Slow!" I would break the hyperlink on that picture if i were you

 

[GS3K]

(Sorry about my lack of involvement in the thread, been busy with school-related stuff for the most part)

Do we need a day or two to go over which moves flow with gale strike, or should we move on?

shoot me if I miss anything.

Notes from the discussion:

• Multihit projectile with a windbox
• Beats out most non-transcendent projectiles.
• Can pop up the opponent for a nair/uair/fair for extra damage (not always guaranteed)
• It can be useful for edgeguarding and covering ledge/opponent landing options depending on positioning.
• Needs a commitment, characters with fast/aerial approach options can punish it if misused, good against characters with unreliable approach options.
• Works well with swordfighter's other moves.
• Widely MU dependent.

edit: added notes to the OP

 

[Routa]

I would like to add my two cents. I use 1233 set. One thing I like to do is backflip into Side-B as a random thing. From time to time I use Tornado instead of Side-B as a mix up. This seems to confuse people and from time to time people make mistakes (jumping over it and taking Fair in the face). It is rather good suprise tool. I would also say that it is better for stages with a bit more room than BF. In my opinion it is great on stages like Brinstar and Arena Ferox (I'm a 3DS "hero").

 

[DigitalAtom6]

Now that it's sunday and the end for the showcase of Gale Strike is coming to a close, I will add my last conclusions now that I have spent the last week playing with it. I called some friends for some friendlies while using the 1332 set, the 1331 and the 2331.

I went to determine (at least for myself) how much of a difference Gale Strike made in the MU's I listed as good for the move and where it was bad. Well, I had some rough fights with a Samus main and a Sonic main, anyway. It's not much, but it's all I had as far as offline matches were concerned.

So with the matches against Samus I noticed I was primarily using the move to punish her awful rolls in case I read them or to just put up a moving wall of sorts, since it destroys missiles and uncharged to weakly charged neutral b. Of course I could have used Reversal slash to do the same and bounce them back, though this has the drawback that Gale Strike can eat multiple projectiles outside of strict timing.

The problem was that I had trouble getting anything out of Gale Strike hitting. Samus was popped up, but my opponent only got hit once or twice over the course of the match. Maybe it's me, but I'm starting to think you need solid reads to get anything out of it.
A lot of times using the move forced my opponent to shield for a second in order to not get hit. But in hindsight, this is actually a mistake, since I can get a grab out of that at closer ranges which does guarantee follow-ups at lower percents. I guess not knowing the matchup well is in my advantage in this case.

The damage of Gale Strike is nothing spectacular, especially compared to it's counterpart on the neutral-b slot, SoL. Therefore, Gale Strike seems like a move that walls slower characters out to just slowly rack up damage without much risk. I think that only with big characters that hate being above people (especially when facing mii swordfighter U-air) like Dedede or Charizard would you get more follow-ups out of hitting with Gale Strike to make it a lot more worthwhile. Otherwise, it's something I'd say just meh to. Did you know SoL destroys missiles (and a lot of other things too) at mid-long range? I do now.

The Sonic fights were brutal to me. I could only use Gale Strike when he was spindashing right at me, otherwise I got punished with the huge lag. I think I only managed to Gale Strike to U-air once for the kill. Not worth it compared to the other tens of times I got punished for it. I really missed SoL at one point and just used that instead. It went much better as that shuts down spindashing way better, with some 10% damage per hit every now and then.

In my final conclusion: in good MU's, Gale Strike is meh to okay. In bad ones, just don't bother. It's really bad there. My second choice for neutral B.

 

[murdokdracul]

Now that it's sunday and the end for the showcase of Gale Strike is coming to a close, I will add my last conclusions now that I have spent the last week playing with it. I called some friends for some friendlies while using the 1332 set, the 1331 and the 2331.

I went to determine (at least for myself) how much of a difference Gale Strike made in the MU's I listed as good for the move and where it was bad. Well, I had some rough fights with a Samus main and a Sonic main, anyway. It's not much, but it's all I had as far as offline matches were concerned.

So with the matches against Samus I noticed I was primarily using the move to punish her awful rolls in case I read them or to just put up a moving wall of sorts, since it destroys missiles and uncharged to weakly charged neutral b. Of course I could have used Reversal slash to do the same and bounce them back, though this has the drawback that Gale Strike can eat multiple projectiles outside of strict timing.

The problem was that I had trouble getting anything out of Gale Strike hitting. Samus was popped up, but my opponent only got hit once or twice over the course of the match. Maybe it's me, but I'm starting to think you need solid reads to get anything out of it.
A lot of times using the move forced my opponent to shield for a second in order to not get hit. But in hindsight, this is actually a mistake, since I can get a grab out of that at closer ranges which does guarantee follow-ups at lower percents. I guess not knowing the matchup well is in my advantage in this case.

The damage of Gale Strike is nothing spectacular, especially compared to it's counterpart on the neutral-b slot, SoL. Therefore, Gale Strike seems like a move that walls slower characters out to just slowly rack up damage without much risk. I think that only with big characters that hate being above people (especially when facing mii swordfighter U-air) like Dedede or Charizard would you get more follow-ups out of hitting with Gale Strike to make it a lot more worthwhile. Otherwise, it's something I'd say just meh to. Did you know SoL destroys missiles (and a lot of other things too) at mid-long range? I do now.

The Sonic fights were brutal to me. I could only use Gale Strike when he was spindashing right at me, otherwise I got punished with the huge lag. I think I only managed to Gale Strike to U-air once for the kill. Not worth it compared to the other tens of times I got punished for it. I really missed SoL at one point and just used that instead. It went much better as that shuts down spindashing way better, with some 10% damage per hit every now and then.

In my final conclusion: in good MU's, Gale Strike is meh to okay. In bad ones, just don't bother. It's really bad there. My second choice for neutral B.

I pretty much agree with you. I like the move because it's fun, but like you said, you need solid reads to make it useful in serious matches.

 

[DigitalAtom6]

I believe Gale Strike is done, so I ran a RNG with the limits between 2 and 12 as there are 12 special moves total and we just finished the very first one. It generated 11, which is Reversal Slash if you go down the list in the customs menu.
If everybody agrees, I'll post my initial thoughts on it tomorrow.

 

[Unknownkid]

Yeah that is fine. Reversal Slash Everyone!

 

[GS3K]

These next few days will be focused on reversal slash:

My $0.02 on the move:

It's pretty much Mario's cape but in a different move slot and slightly weaker (mario's does about 7% and swordfighter's does 5%).

Similar to the cape:

• you can run off the edge -> b-reverse RS to edge trump (kinda redundant but still a nice little quirk)
• Stall in the air once per jump.
• Initiate cape jump (hit while opponent is jumping to make them jump higher)
• [could cape glide similar to brawl mario in previous patches, got removed]
• makes gunner's fsmash do a weird invisible shot glitch

I find myself using this one the most for its utility. It can be used as a reflector (I think its reflect multiplier is the same as mario's, 1.5x) and to gimp recoveries.

 

[DigitalAtom6]

So here are my first thoughts on Reversal Slash:

Reversal Slash is a very useful move. First of all, it's a reflector. Projectile heavy characters like Megaman will fear you with this. Not only does give this Mii Swordfighter the niche of being the only swordwielder with a reflector option over the counter, but it's also essentially Mario's cape, meaning it also turns around opponents hit by it, dealing 5-6% It also reverses their horizontal momentum. The intent of this was for gimps, naturally. Characters whose recovery is easily gimped by this (correct me if I'm wrong here) are:
Captain Falcon, Bowser Jr., Pit/Dark Pit (in case of higher recovery), Diddy Kong (though it might not be your best option), Mario/Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Greninja, King Dedede, Megaman/Sonic only if they already used their second jump, Mewtwo (takes strict timing, but no hitbox helps), Robin, Rosaluma and Yoshi.

Again this is a very MU dependant move. Even though Captain Falcon is sensitive to gimps, it might be a good idea to take counter against him instead since he has no projectiles. Gimping shouldn't be your only reason for choosing this move. Besides, Dair can easily take over this task with similar results.

With some MU's it is up for debate which is better, this move or counter. An example is Lucario. His Aura Sphere is his most used move by far, so one could argue that reversal slash is the best here. Though if you were to read a smash coming your way when he's at high aura, counter would seal the deal. I know as a Lucario player myself that both are threatening to me. So I say it's up to preference in this MU.

There are no guaranteed combo's that start with this in any situation and I know of, but there are some strings in case your opponent doesn't shield in time or is trying to attack you with a slow attack. Most prominent is turning your opponent around during that slow attack and grabbing them for d-throw to Uair games. If their attack is slow enough, you can D-smash or F-smash them. Also possible is the infamous multiple tilt chakrams into Hero's Spin. DA or tilts in case the opponent's move was not so slow.

To summarize:

• reflector, thus MU dependant
• in some MU's it doesn't matter much if it's this or counter.
• gimps, dair can be substitute for this
• can situationally provide unguaranteed follow-ups which can potentially lead to a KO

That is all for now. Until Sunday!

 

[Antonykun]

There are at least two characters I know where Reversal Slash Gimps > D-air Gimps:
Ryu and Rosalina

Jump+Shoryuken and Launch Star go very high in the sky making D-air useless against them but Reversal slash makes getting the stock much easier (ESPECIALLY against Ryu)

 

[CHOMPY]

Mii Swordfighter: Gale Wind

Overall, it can be a good move to when when your opponent is getting hyper aggressive on hit. When it does hit, it can lead to a free uair. If the same situation applies again where the opponent comes at you and they anticipate the gale wind, run up to them and go for the grab. The fact that gale wind negates so many energy based like projectiles can really make a difference in Swordfighters neutral game. Gale wind can go through Luigi and Marios fireballs. When your landing and they anticipate a falling aerial, fake them out by using a empty gale wind and then go for the grab. If they see you pulling off the same stunt, they can just usmash you, so be careful. The gale wind stops Sheiks bouncing fish dead in its tracks, but doesn't cancel out the needles. Fortunately, the windbox doesn't push them back when they have their shield up, so you will still have enough range to dash grab them. Funny thing about the move is that the windbox can potentially gimp them offstage the same way Mario's fludd works, only its a much weaker version.

 

[Yorsh]

Mii Swordfighter: Gale Wind
Funny thing about the move is that the windbox can potentially gimp them offstage the same way Mario's fludd works, only its a much weaker version.

I never managed to do that. If i hit the windbox, it pushes my opponant upward and helps them to recover. So I checked the frame data and found this :

1. BEGIN miiswordsman_tornadoshot
2. **********
3. Gale Strike
4. Frame 1-17: [3.7%]x3 80b/104g (KO@ 265%) 86° Slash
5. Frame 18-35: [2.9%]x3 80b/105g (KO@ 296%) 86° Slash
6. Frame 36-53: [2%]x3 70b/106g (KO@ 388%) 86° Slash
7. Frame 54-55: 0% 100f/80w 86° Slash Aerial-Target-Only
8. Frame 54-55: 0% 100f/55w 20° Slash Ground-Target-Only
9. Max Damage: 25.8%

According to this, it pushes your opponant back only if he is grounded. Now it can be a misstake and it pushes back when your opponant is right on the way of the tornado, if he is a bit on top of the tornado, it pushes him up instead.
Did you manage to push them back in the air once or you assumed it was possible ?

I know it can push someone out of the stage, I'm talking about someone already in the air when he gets hit by the tornado.

EDIT : Nevermind you was talking about this already, but it's so weak that I didn't even think you could gimp someone with this.

It's pretty much Mario's cape but in a different move slot and slightly weaker (mario's does about 7% and swordfighter's does 5%).

According to the same frame data, it does 6% (just saying, I haven't tested it)

EDIT: It's also 6% on kuroganehammer.

 

[Unknownkid]

in the words of Sanic: "You're too Slow!" I would break the hyperlink on that picture if i were you

Sorry for be ignorant. What do you mean?

I never managed to do that. If i hit the windbox, it pushes my opponant upward and helps them to recover. So I checked the frame data and found this :

According to this, it pushes your opponant back only if he is grounded. Now it can be a misstake and it pushes back when your opponant is right on the way of the tornado, if he is a bit on top of the tornado, it pushes him up instead.
Did you manage to push them back in the air once or you assumed it was possible ?

QuickEdit : I know it can push someone out of the stage, I'm talking about someone already in the air when he gets hit by the tornado.



According to the same frame data, it does 6% (just saying, I haven't tested it)

I would not trust that frame data information. KurogameHammer one is more accurate. And Gale Strike windbox does work against Aerial Borne Opponent. Like most Windboxes - for example, Mario's FLUDD and Greninja's Hydro Pump, you can push against blow and it will send you upward.

 

[GS3K]

Sorry for be ignorant. What do you mean?.

I'm guessing he's referring to the chart and the way the pictures appear as attached files.

 

[DigitalAtom6]

It's the end of the week and I have my thoughts about Reversal slash ready.
So Reversal Slash being good is MU dependant. It's a reflector, so you want to have it against characters who use projectiles. Gimps are possible as the move acts a lot like Mario's Cape. There are not many characters that are gimped by the move where Dair wouldn't work, so it's not very strong to use just for that reason. Aside from what I said before, that's all that is to the move; to improve the MU against projectile users. There are some MU's where it is unclear if this move is better than counter. Most notably are the MU's against ZSS, Pit/Dark Pit, Fox, Falco, Greninja, Link, Mewtwo, ditto, Zelda and Lucario for this uncertainty.
So for those MU's it depends on your playstyle which is better, as Reversal Slash is better for a more defensive style of play.

If everyone is satisfied, I'll run an RNG monday afternoon.

 

[Antonykun]

It's the end of the week and I have my thoughts about Reversal slash ready.
So Reversal Slash being good is MU dependant. It's a reflector, so you want to have it against characters who use projectiles. Gimps are possible as the move acts a lot like Mario's Cape. There are not many characters that are gimped by the move where Dair wouldn't work, so it's not very strong to use just for that reason. Aside from what I said before, that's all that is to the move; to improve the MU against projectile users. There are some MU's where it is unclear if this move is better than counter. Most notably are the MU's against ZSS, Pit/Dark Pit, Fox, Falco, Greninja, Link, Mewtwo, ditto, Zelda and Lucario for this uncertainty.
So for those MU's it depends on your playstyle which is better, as Reversal Slash is better for a more defensive style of play.

If everyone is satisfied, I'll run an RNG monday afternoon.

being able to insta gimp Greninja and make a threat to Aura Sphere makes RS my choice against those two

 

[GS3K]

What I'm getting at (as far as discussion notes go) is:

• Serves as a reflector, due to sharing properties with mario's cape.
• Can be an alternate means of gimping opponents (only way to gimp recoveries like the Pits' or RosaLuma's).
• MU dependant, some MUs favor this over counter and vice versa.

(shrug)

 

[Antonykun]

What I'm getting at (as far as discussion notes go) is:

• Can be an alternate means of gimping opponents.

(shrug)

against certain characters like Rosalina and the Pits this makes it the only way you are gimping them