SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[phi1ny3]

Or you could always try classic controller.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Classic Controllers have too many buttons.. my fingers get caught doing one thing instead of another... CURSE MY DONKEY KONG SIZED HANDS! ;.; But I do agree that we already know how to kick Metaknight's butt from here back to his base (although to do it, we have to fight nearlyl flawlessly, so I admit that it's a close to even fight, even if we can win still), so maybe we should move to other people who are more dangerous than he is. I find it weird how this kid (who thankfully, our online fights are completely lagless) can fight me in tournament santioned areas with Metaknight and lose, but when he switches to Wolf or Wario, I find myself struggling just to make sure he doesn't get a win without losing a single stock. Maybe I'm just bad v them, but does anyone else have a problem with Wolf or Wario? (I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE WOLF'S SHIELD! And Wario's down aerial short hopped annoys me so much!) Or do I just suck?

 

[phi1ny3]

MK is regarded by Lee, Azen, and many lucarios to be a disadvantageous fight, but not to the point of necessarily counterpicking with a different character. On the brief topic of wario/wolf, both are regarded as slightly disadvantageous matchups, so I'm not surprised that there is difficulty.

MK verdict for me: 60:40 (disadvantage for lucario).

 

[KarateF22]

I notice that lucario's aura attacks share the same "transcending priority" property that metaknights sword slashes do, albeit we have shorter range.... due to this i have noticed times where if me and a MK attack each other at the same time, even with attacks of widely differing power, BOTH attacks will hit as opposed to clinking or one just going through the other.

 

[phi1ny3]

The above statement is true. We also have slower attacks, lots of MK's attacks come out under 5 frames.

 

[KarateF22]

in the correct circumstances... you can bair/dair an MK during his up+b.... you'll likely still get hit, but if you DI properly that can score you a kill without dying/flying really far as well.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

So I guess I'm the only person who's high on life enough to think that Lucario is still with the rest of the people that can take on Metaknight? Aww man... so much for college.... Atleast I know that my loses against Wolf and Wario aren't because I suck... they were hard because they were hard... and that I can't short-hop with this darn Wiimote.

 

[KarateF22]

So I guess I'm the only person who's high on life enough to think that Lucario is still with the rest of the people that can take on Metaknight? Aww man... so much for college.... Atleast I know that my loses against Wolf and Wario aren't because I suck... they were hard because they were hard... and that I can't short-hop with this darn Wiimote.

Lucario, inherently due to his aura property, cannot have truly horrid matchups, because when hes down to one stock, he will **** you hard. If i had to say though.... its 40:60 in MK's favor. thats just me though. wolf is tough too, but doable. Wario? just watch his superarmor in fsmash... thats the only thing that REALLY gets me.

 

[Timbers]

So I guess I'm the only person who's high on life enough to think that Lucario is still with the rest of the people that can take on Metaknight? Aww man... so much for college.... Atleast I know that my loses against Wolf and Wario aren't because I suck... they were hard because they were hard... and that I can't short-hop with this darn Wiimote.

40:60 isn't that bad. MK's worst matchups are still in his favor, lol. Just gotta deal with it.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

If I'm the only person who still sees what a Beast Lucario is, then I know I'm never getting into college. ;.; But again, you guys know better than me though, so I guess you guys get to decide on things here. My position may just me not wanting Metaknight the satisfaction of butt-****** everyone, and i guess when I get into the tournament scene again, I'll have to prove that myself.

 

[Timbers]

don't let bias cloud your judgment. MK is a **** to deal with. Not Luc's hardest matchup I think, but it's still up there.

 

[Hence]

45:55, MK's Favor.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Heck, until I get to tournaments and start tearing Metaknight a new hole to put an extra Wing in, I'd be happy just calling it 50:50. For now..

But just wait until people are whispering of the power of the Demonic Lucario, murdering everyone in his path. Not even Metaknight will be epic enough to deal with the flood of power that is the Aura of the Demon! MUHAHAHAHAHA!....

I'm sorry, I was listening to the Boss battle Song 1, and I'm all hyped up, especially after voting on Lucas and Wario's rematch being a better video than the Tank in the Wild one. But still, If I have to single-handedly kick every Metaknight's butt in existance, and go even with Mew2King, in order to prove how awesome Lucario is, I'll take that challenge on, fighting the entire world if I have to. I'll work by myself to advance the Metagame if need be, to prove to everyone the Power of Aura.

 

[Timbers]

or let the people that do go to tournaments make the call, rather than us wait for you to attend one.


Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.


I appreciate your wanting to destroy every MK to dust but action speaks much much much louder than words.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I friggin hate my broken ribs.... playing isn't nearly as fun if I can't get up and move around while I do so... I'm lucky to move period.... that's the only reason why I'm not changing people's minds right now. (other than lack of funds or transportation due to the accident that broke my ribs also destroying my car)

I'd be happy with people that just go to tournaments rocking things if they'd be able to prove more and more how Lucario shreads Mk, but if lots of people still see him as broken, then they aren't doing their dang job! If only I could.... I feel friggin old.. ;.;

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

At the risk of sounding like an ***, stop posting in here. You're not contributing anything at all.

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

At the risk of sounding like an ***, stop posting in here. You're not contributing anything at all.

At the risk of sounding like a big meany, I request you cease posting here. You're not contributing anything at all.
I shall contribute, that I've discovered a GREAT and AWESOME function that everyone can use! It's called the PRIVATE MESSAGE function and it should be USED for one on one CONVERSATIONS!

Oh... and just use fsmash.

 

[|RK|]

I think from now on I should runaround topics with tensions screaming "TROGDOR!"......


TROGDOR!!!

 

[Timbers]

no you should not.


you guys are only hurtin yourselves if you'd rather spam this up than contribute or in this case, make a closing on the matchup. It's not like I'm here to benefit myself and desperately get knowledge on matchups.

 

[|RK|]

It was a joke, Sunshine. I'd help, but frankly I've given my knowledge on MK, lol. So then, let's leave it at this, the people who go to tournaments will suggest matchup numbers. The rest of us will debate that number, and why it should be one we suggested. Good? I'll be back with the thoughts on the Lucario matchup from the MK boards. Eye this post.

EDIT:

Lucario

Difficulty: 65:35

"Lucario can be a very tricky match up for MK, unless you know what you're doing.

First off, About MT'ing lucario. MT'ing Lucario is pretty simple for the most part seeing as the only 3 plausible moves Lucario has that break MT are F+Smash, D+Air, and Fully Charged Aura Sphere

Keeping Lucario in the air seems like the best way to deal with him for me.

People are kind of scared to do this because of Lucario's F+Air > F+Air > N+Air Combo. Don't worry about this... If you look at the %, this only does like 10-15%... And even than, If you DI away and F+Air, You will hit Lucario out of this.

Its pretty easy to deal with Lucario in the air, Unless he is above you. Do not attack him if he is above you. Nothing MK has can out prioritize Lucario D+Air.

Don't shield to much against Lucario. Its not smart. Lucario can D+Air > Jab > Jab > Grab/Jab. He also has a couple other options to attack your shield, so you should do this cautiously.

Dealing with Lucario over the edge is EASY!

-If Lucario tries to sweet spot, Edge hog.

-If He tries to wall cling, Ledge drop, and D+Air him for a stage spike.

-If he tries to go on to the stage, Jump up and attack him on the lag frames.

When on the ground be sure to remember,

- Lucario's F+smash can out prioritize any of your ground attacks.

- Lucario has a good dash grab, and can do some good stuff out of a grab. So watch out for that.

- MK's dash grab is very risky to use, but the pay off on Lucario is pretty good. The D+Throw to F+air combo works really good on Lucario, and can send him over the edge for an easy kill.

- Landing tilts on Lucario really pays off. If you finish an F+tilt combo, It sets him up for a fallow up in the air, and if you trip him with D+tilt, you can dash grab and punish from that."

-MisterMoo

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Yeah, I think we've already established that the MK board's description of the matchup is a joke.

 

[Timbers]

It was a joke, Sunshine. I'd help, but frankly I've given my knowledge on MK, lol. So then, let's leave it at this, the people who go to tournaments will suggest matchup numbers. The rest of us will debate that number, and why it should be one we suggested. Good? I'll be back with the thoughts on the Lucario matchup from the MK boards. Eye this post.

no, i want EVERYONE to participate in the discussion, i just don't want the discussion to be cluttered with "well i'd go to tournaments but [insert wall of johns here]" It sucks if you can't go to tournies but it's not really necessary to talk about it here.

 

[Samuelson]

I don't think the MK boards did a horrible job with the matchup. It's kind of outdated though. They said not to shield because of Lucario's Dair LOLOL. I guess Up OoS didn't exist back then.

 

[Timbers]

Alright assuming no new discussion takes place for the remainder of the day, I'm going to move onto MARTH tomorrow. It seems like the general consensus is 40:60.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Zelda is discussing Lucario

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190698

Please go there to post if you know the matchup a little

 

[Timbers]

i dare you to read it all Royal.

 

[iRJi]

Marth =D yay!. Wait for it.. Just wait.. Later I'm gunna write the illest matchup for this one. Its the match up i know the best =]

Post will arrive later today or tomorrow morning. Doing my school work and havent had much time.

 

[Timbers]

marth is a go

 

[Mattsy]

His fair > our fair, for one. If you go into an aerial confrontation, the range on Marth's fair with just own you. He can chain them together, too. His bair is just as deadly, an both can kill. His uair outranges dair but we outprioritise him, but if he's smart he'll be able to handle dairs fairly easily with uair, usmash and utilt. His nair has good knockback too. This isn't one for an aerial Lucario, IMO.

Fsmash is useful, but fsmash will kill very early if tippered, and if you're using fsmash chances are it wouldn't be overly hard for him to line himself and kill you before your power has even started going up. His ftilt also has great range.

Aura Sphere is your friend here, and I reccommend having a charged one handy at all times just in case you get launched into a fair chain (or Ken combo, has they like to label it, despite the probability of a spike is pretty low).

Gimping can be nice, however, since they're generally not going to be trying to fair you to oblivion whilst trying to recover. Marth's recovery, like Ike's is something I like to call linear (you can't control it), so gimping is generally effective. Watch out for fairs, though; if Marth has his second jump he may fair you back to the ledge quicker than anticipated and stage spike you with dolphin slash.

He can also gimp you with fair a little bit at high percents, due to the more impressive knockback of his fair, but he'll always have to retreat quickly to recover.

I'd say 55-45 Marth, Aura Sphere keeping it from being a horrible one for Lucario.

That's my opinion, at least.

 

[Fizzle]

Get under him and juggle him. Most Marths are too scared to use their laggy dair in the air, so you should be landing uair kills a little more often than usual here. Watch for occasional dancing blade stalls.

His fair will outprioritize your fully charged AS until like 120 or so, so be aware of that.

Rolling can be extremely helpful in this match-up, but don't abuse it. If Marth is being predictable with fair camping, don't be afraid to roll behind and jab him or something. Lucario's roll is fast enough for this to work. If you do successfully roll behind his fair, a retreating uair may follow or he'll just land and reset. Never roll behind a grounded Marth, though. You'll end eating a dancing blade, dsmash, or upb -- all of which hurt.

Don't jab cancel at all, folks. Seriously. You'll only get upb'd.

If you intend to gimp a Marth, dair him. But be careful about it. Never attempt to fair him or get in front of him offstage, because upb stage spike almost always = death for Lucario. Bair might be another option if he recovers high, but I'm not sure who wins out in that battle.

Lucario, like many other characters, can screw Marth over really badly on the ledge. Marth's ledge attack is one of the worst in the game, so expect either a ledgejump fair/airdodge (fair won't hit if you're spaced right) or a ledgehop nair.


60-40 Marth.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I dont know much about marth (sorry.) i just know his dancing blade is wicked. 60-40 marth's favor.(ill edit this when I know more. again sorry.)

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Marth. It's already been stated, but his Aerial Game is much more dangerous than ours is. I've found myself saved several times by well timed Double Teams, though. That, and the Aura Sphere, is probably the only reason that Marth's don't scare me too much.... Still, the Princess is a dangerous enemy... s-he should not be taken lightly. Keep yourself planted on the ground if you can. Tippered strikes are deadly... this one you have to be incredibly careful...

Despite my normally stubborn attitude, even I have to admit that Princess ***** us... I'd be willing to stick this one at a 60-40 in favor of his Majesty.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Marth isn't as scary as y'all are making it out to be. To start I'd say this match up is 55-45 in Marth's favor. As usual beware the fair, that's a pro and con for Lucario. Why? If the Marth is approaching constantly with fair, he'd somewhat easy to punish. However, Dancing Blade is something I say is what you should worry about more, besides getting tipped. As someone mentioned before, try not to gimp Marf. His Up B is too dangerous to risk it.

Personally when I face Marths, I stay defensive. Marth will do the approaching, that's when Baby spheres come in. I usually start the match with a SH baby aura sphere, this more or less gives you some room.

Who's fsmash more range, Luke or Marf's?

 

[Kappie]

Here by I ask everyone that doesn't have sufficent matchup/tournament experience to NOT post in this thread. It doesn't help us. Even I, while I went to several tournaments and placed very good in them, don't consider myself good enough to post here for all but some matchups.

So please, don't spam the thread with incorrect things, or stuff that everyone else has said already. Leave that to the better players, thanks.

Directed at the last few posts.

 

[hichez50]

Marth is a threat to lucario but not so much after learning the match up. Also you don't have to worry about the average player counter-picking marth to beat lucario. I found that having a solid ground game is the key. He can't force you into the air unless he attacks you. Even then if you DI you wont get "Ken combo'd". Then on top of that the only stage he has a huge advantage is Battlefield.

I would say 55-45. Its neutral as long as you don't fall for air combos to much. Plus it gets to a point where its about skill in this match-up and not charater advantage. Marth has no true combo or infinite on neutral stages. that I know of, if so please correct me". Marth still has a slight advantage only because of stages

 

[The_Bear735]

Marth isn't as scary as y'all are making it out to be. To start I'd say this match up is 55-45 in Marth's favor. As usual beware the fair, that's a pro and con for Lucario. Why? If the Marth is approaching constantly with fair, he'd somewhat easy to punish. However, Dancing Blade is something I say is what you should worry about more, besides getting tipped. As someone mentioned before, try not to gimp Marf. His Up B is too dangerous to risk it.

Personally when I face Marths, I stay defensive. Marth will do the approaching, that's when Baby spheres come in. I usually start the match with a SH baby aura sphere, this more or less gives you some room.

Who's fsmash more range, Luke or Marf's?

.........

Do you even play good Marths? A smart Marth player doesn't get punished easily for SH Fairs. Also, Lucario has more range with his Fsmash.


As for my thoughts, I'd say it's 60-40 in favor of Marth. Lucario definitely has more range than Marth, and can play a better defensive and offstage game. However, Marth has better SH, grab, and KO'ing options. The Marth matchup can be easy if you're playing against bad Marth, or if you know it well. If you keep your distance and make good use of Lucario's superior range (BAS, Fsmash, etc.), you'll give the Marth a lot of trouble in terms of trying to build up your damage and KO moves. The biggest advantage Marth has over Lucario is that he completely stops most of Lucario's best approaching options (SH Fair, Nair, Bair walling/poking all get outranged and punished by SH Fair, and Dash attacking is asking for a punish), so playing offensive vs. Marth can get you KO'd easily. If you play a good defensive game, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

 

[Timbers]

If the Marth is approaching constantly with fair, he'd somewhat easy to punish.

An ff fair has like 5 frames of room to punish, and the only thing Luc has that can outrange the fair is an fsmash. I believe initial hitbox on bair has relatively same range as Marth's fair as well, but is also 3x slower. If you planned on roll behind his fair (? lol) then the option of ff fair to DB is an easy punisher, or if the Marth chooses not to ff the fair he could still bair you out of your roll.

No you will not be punishing Marth's anything, the only thing you can really hope for is a whiffed or shielded smash.

 

[tedward2000]

Your playing an outmatched game against a marth.
-t2

 

[hichez50]

I think everyone agrees that marth has favor. What we need to decide is if it a "55-45" or a "60-40". I think it just depend on stage personally.

 

[Fizzle]

If you planned on roll behind his fair (? lol) then the option of ff fair to DB is an easy punisher, or if the Marth chooses not to ff the fair he could still bair you out of your roll.

Most Marths will not be camping solely with ff fair. SH (non ff) fair is relatively easy to roll behind and punish. Provided your timing is right, you might even be able to punish a ff fair as well. Like I said, Lucario is probably the only character who can get away with this consistently, but even then it shouldn't be spammed. As long as you're smart with it, rolling is certainly a viable option.

strategic rolling ***** marth. only time you can beat it is when you are forcing the reaction with a dtilt and are ready for the roll

As Steel said, strategic rolling ***** Marth
When you've already committed to an aerial them rolling behind you is the most common situation but also if you just don't expect it because they're smart with their rolling.