Simon/Richter Elite Smash

[SkippyJ]

I’m currently sitting at 1,765,148 GSP with Simon, the highest I’ve climbed with him since the game came out, and honestly I was expecting to have hit elite smash by now. Any of you that have made the climb know about where the threshold might be?

 

[SkippyJ]

Update: 1,929,120 GSP. Still no ES. Starting to get scared of playing him online lmao, last game I brought all the way back after SD’ing at 30% against a 1.5m Donkey Kong

 

[Kempatsu]

I just unlocked it with Richter at 2,260,532 GSP!

 

[SkippyJ]

Thank you so much! And props I hit 2,200,000 today without getting it and then unfortunately dropped back down to 1,600,000 rematching a young link player over and over LMAO. Also hit 2,250,000 with bowser (my possible secondary for short characters) today too n didn’t get it :/

 

[Empty Number]

I’ve been trying to hit elite with Simon for a few days now. It’s difficult because his bad matchups are so disadvantageous for him, so if you draw a rush down character that knows that they’re doing, Simon loses spectacularly.

 

[Nate1080]

I’ve been trying to hit elite with Simon for a few days now. It’s difficult because his bad matchups are so disadvantageous for him, so if you draw a rush down character that knows that they’re doing, Simon loses spectacularly.

Also loses to people that know how to parry and other keep away characters like Ness, Isabelle and Ivysaur in my experience.

I've been trying to grind to elite myself with Simon. Been at almost 2.2 Mil without getting it. I wonder why its so high for the Belmonts? I rarely play against any.

 

[TheHero]

You both just don't know how to play them.

Regarding rush down chars you have Holy Water and Cross to lock them down and dtilt to get away. Really you should be throwing Cross out almost whenever you can because it leads to brain dead combos and setups. Varying its speed and distance helps keep it surprising. If they do start closing gaps you have dtilt to low profile a lot of moves so you can hit them and get away at the same time. Surprise Holy Waters can work well because the bottle has a hitbox before it activates so it can stop something and then let you get a free ftilt or fsmash.

Regarding other keep away chars, there is little to no reason that you, as a Belmont, should ever be out camped. Cross will stop almost all projectiles and nothing in the game challenges the whip's range. If they run away, step forward and keep them in range of your whip. Fair and ftilt beat projectiles and still hit while doing so. Short hop forward fair alone will help because you can keep pressure on chars who try to find breathing room.

 

[Sauce09]

On top of what's written above, you really want to practice up B out of shield. It has invincibility frames during frame 5-6 (start up at 6) with good horizontal range, making it one of the best "get off me" options in the game, imo. It also gives you more stage control by allowing you to set up projectiles.

 

[Nate1080]

You both just don't know how to play them.

Regarding rush down chars you have Holy Water and Cross to lock them down and dtilt to get away. Really you should be throwing Cross out almost whenever you can because it leads to brain dead combos and setups. Varying its speed and distance helps keep it surprising. If they do start closing gaps you have dtilt to low profile a lot of moves so you can hit them and get away at the same time. Surprise Holy Waters can work well because the bottle has a hitbox before it activates so it can stop something and then let you get a free ftilt or fsmash.

Regarding other keep away chars, there is little to no reason that you, as a Belmont, should ever be out camped. Cross will stop almost all projectiles and nothing in the game challenges the whip's range. If they run away, step forward and keep them in range of your whip. Fair and ftilt beat projectiles and still hit while doing so. Short hop forward fair alone will help because you can keep pressure on chars who try to find breathing room.

I understand all that, he’s an easy character to play and understand, I was just alluding to the fact that he has slow speed that’s easy to take advantage of. Yes you can keep spacing people away and trapping them, that’s what he does, but it doesn’t always play out like that.

 

[TheHero]

I understand all that, he’s an easy character to play and understand, I was just alluding to the fact that he has slow speed that’s easy to take advantage of. Yes you can keep spacing people away and trapping them, that’s what he does, but it doesn’t always play out like that.

Slow speed means nothing when you have range. Sure other chars can have faster ground speed but no one is fast enough to cover the entire range of the whip before it gets to them.

If you are getting caught in the lag of a missed swing then you have dtilt and their upb(which is basically a dp) to get out of the situation, or you simply swung at the wrong time in the first place.

 

[Kempatsu]

I’ve been trying to hit elite with Simon for a few days now. It’s difficult because his bad matchups are so disadvantageous for him, so if you draw a rush down character that knows that they’re doing, Simon loses spectacularly.

Had to hit 2.5 GSP with Richter to keep elite Smash. I've gotten stomped in there too, I have a lot of room to improve.

As for the rush down chars, yeah. Pichu, Ness, Jiggly...they are rough. I've had some success recently against them by some well timed items thrown at them. It's tough, you just can't make any mistakes really. You have to use everything at your disposal.

 

[KACHOW!!!]

Just play on https://www.smashladder.com/. You get to play people by real tournament rulesets (I.E., banning stages and counterpicking) instead of just final destination and battlefield. You also don't need to get to elite smash to play on anthers.

 

[FireWater]

I just unlocked it with Richter at 2,260,532 GSP!

Hey what is your win % overall? Mine is around 56% and I am at around 2.3 with no ES

 

[Luigifan18]

Just play on https://www.smashladder.com/. You get to play people by real tournament rulesets (I.E., banning stages and counterpicking) instead of just final destination and battlefield. You also don't need to get to elite smash to play on anthers.

Is this compatible with Nintendo's online services?

 

[Kempatsu]

Hey what is your win % overall? Mine is around 56% and I am at around 2.3 with no ES

I had to have 2.7 GSP to keep elite smash with Richter. I am currently at 58% wr (last 50)

 

[KACHOW!!!]

Elite smash is dumb. Play on anther’s ladder.

 

[Kempatsu]

Elite smash is dumb. Play on anther’s ladder.

no thanks but thanks

 

[KACHOW!!!]

Is this compatible with Nintendo's online services?

All you have to do is go to the website I linked and make a profile. It’s easy in smash ultimate because you can just go to the “battle arenas” under the “online” menu in the main menu of smash ultimate. I have no idea why everyone playing this game isn’t doing so on anther’s ladder

 

[KangarooReaper]

You both just don't know how to play them.

Regarding rush down chars you have Holy Water and Cross to lock them down and dtilt to get away. Really you should be throwing Cross out almost whenever you can because it leads to brain dead combos and setups. Varying its speed and distance helps keep it surprising. If they do start closing gaps you have dtilt to low profile a lot of moves so you can hit them and get away at the same time. Surprise Holy Waters can work well because the bottle has a hitbox before it activates so it can stop something and then let you get a free ftilt or fsmash.

Regarding other keep away chars, there is little to no reason that you, as a Belmont, should ever be out camped. Cross will stop almost all projectiles and nothing in the game challenges the whip's range. If they run away, step forward and keep them in range of your whip. Fair and ftilt beat projectiles and still hit while doing so. Short hop forward fair alone will help because you can keep pressure on chars who try to find breathing room.

If you play him, which I somewhat doubt, how do you deal with Young Link or Wolf? Cross starts up too slow to contest fire arrows and laser has insane range (and I believe it ignores cross, or maybe I am thinking of something else) along with the reflector which can be used on returning cross. Both are faster and have access to disjoints. There is no way you can out zone them. You have to rush down. But seeing as I do not know how to play my character, enlighten me, how do you deal with these extremely common characters who are able to avoid approaching me, the "best" zoner in the game. Just spam his whip? That is seriously the best suggestion? Because, if so, he loses those match-ups... Obviously.

 

[KACHOW!!!]

If you play him, which I somewhat doubt, how do you deal with Young Link or Wolf? Cross starts up too slow to contest fire arrows and laser has insane range (and I believe it ignores cross, or maybe I am thinking of something else) along with the reflector which can be used on returning cross. Both are faster and have access to disjoints. There is no way you can out zone them. You have to rush down. But seeing as I do not know how to play my character, enlighten me, how do you deal with these extremely common characters who are able to avoid approaching me, the "best" zoner in the game. Just spam his whip? That is seriously the best suggestion? Because, if so, he loses those match-ups... Obviously.

I play simon and i have a friend who's a wolf main so I'm constantly fighting wolf, and everybody and their grandma plays young link, so i've fought a lot of those too

The trick to dealing with both of them is to mix them up to get them to react badly to the axe. Wolf and young link both rely heavily on their fast, spammy projectiles in a close range in the simon matchup. Simon's not going to hit wolf with every holy axe, and you need to be sure wolf isn't going to reflect the axe back at you, because I'm pretty sure reflected projectiles move much faster than the original (I.E., your axe is much slower and easier to see coming for wolf to reflect, and when wolf reflects it, you're much more likely to get caught off guard and get hit by it. Mix up axe with whip to stop this, because there will be times he expects axe, but you should whip him. Also a lot of holy cross. constantly be throwing out holy cross at all heights because it makes him unable to move through the air like he likes.

Almost everything I said about the wolf matchup is true for the young link matchup, but with the added caveat that young link's fire arrows are a huge threat. Wolf's lasers aren't good for you either, but the fire arrow is a much better against simon than the laser is. You can win the projectile war by using all your specials and the whip (fair, bair, and all three variations. up b, because you should be jumping and mixing up the length of your axe throws with neutral, shortened, and lengthened. I mean a lot of this is just simon stuff that applies to everyone, but it's a tough matchup because if they can read what you're going to throw out and when they get the advantage, but if neither of you sees the other's attacks coming, simon has the definite advantage.

 

[Sauce09]

From my experience with Wolf, he also ends up getting hit with cross since their projectiles go through each other. Cross travels over 3/4 of the battlefield stage quickly, which usually doesn't give wolf enough time to actually reflect the attack when trading projectiles. Usually one hit is enough to set up your projectiles. Up close, Wolf's attacks are punishable by UpB out of shield, most of the time. Doesn't really feel like a bad matchup, to me ATM.

Young Link's projectiles can't go through cross, iirc, which is enough time to use axe. Belmont's dash attack can go through all of Young Link's projectiles, except sometimes bomb. Other than that, I don't know too much about Young Link.

 

[KACHOW!!!]

From my experience with Wolf, he also ends up getting hit with cross since their projectiles go through each other. Cross travels over 3/4 of the battlefield stage quickly, which usually doesn't give wolf enough time to actually reflect the attack when trading projectiles. Usually one hit is enough to set up your projectiles. Up close, Wolf's attacks are punishable by UpB out of shield, most of the time. Doesn't really feel like a bad matchup, to me ATM.

Young Link's projectiles can't go through cross, iirc, which is enough time to use axe. Belmont's dash attack can go through all of Young Link's projectiles, except sometimes bomb. Other than that, I don't know too much about Young Link.

I would agree with the fact that it's hard for wolf to react when you catch him lazering, but if you get hit by a reflected cross it's usually an easy way for wolf to kill you. IDK, i feel like so much of simon is just about reading what your opponent is going to expect, and that if you can't mix them up you're never going to win. Other characters rely more on combos, but simon I think is more mindgames.

Very good points on the young link matchup S Sauce09 , I'll have to test that out for myself.