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I'm so mad at Zelda right now
she can't fight Fox
Yeah that's why I don't do it unless I know they won't. I just try to SDI with my shield to get out of pressure and punish with kick/nair. That or buffer a roll/spot dodge.You can up-smash Falco out of shield. Although nowadays people seem to know to crouch cancel it.
I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik .Zelda is pretty overrated I think. I put her as 2nd worst character, above Bowser.
Well considering how bad G&W's shield and roll is, I find it hard to justify putting him above Zelda. I think Zelda has an overall better matchup spread and can fight high tiers slightly easier (which is not saying much). Mewtwo, DK, both Links, Yoshi, and Pichu are the only low tiers I would put above Zelda. I can agree that Ness might be better than Zelda, but its not like he has a special that can turn you into a high tier . But in all seriousness these characters are awful. Pity to all that play them..oh wait that's me . Good thing I'm learning high tiers.Yeah, I think Ness may actually be better than Zelda. GnW too. I think she has an edge over Kirby and Roy, and probably Bowser. She still loses to most low tiers tbh.
Zelda's neutral game is the worst in the game besides bowser. She is terrible, my friend. She doesn't even get close to hanging with Samus. ICs are the only high tier she has a chance against.I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik .
You know what I agree with you. Zelda is the worst character in the game. She wins no matchups except maybe against Bowser or Kirby. I'm not sure why I was even trying to defend her viability when she has none. The funny thing is that I realized she is even worse than I originally thought and this came to me after doing well with her in a tournament. The only reason I did well is because nobody plays Zelda and so people have no idea what to do against her. Perhaps you could argue that she has niche role as a counterpick against the ICs but that is being wishful at best.Zelda's neutral game is the worst in the game besides bowser. She is terrible, my friend. She doesn't even get close to hanging with Samus. ICs are the only high tier she has a chance against.
Edit: bowser might even have a better neutral game because of up-b out of shield.
I went mostly Sheik, but I've been experimenting with some Zhelda strategies that maybe you Zeldas can give me some thoughts on
Magus just powershields them like, 100% of the time lol.Zelda gets destroyed by turnips.
Um, have you not seen Qerb's Game N' Watch?I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik .
The fact that Roy has amazing movement / neutral alone makes him better than Zelda.Yeah, I think Ness may actually be better than Zelda. GnW too. I think she has an edge over Kirby and Roy, and probably Bowser. She still loses to most low tiers tbh.
Really old post, but incredibly informative. Thanks for postig this.yeah its just a 1 or 2 steps in. Wavedash makes you go into them too much imo.
naryu's will do a variety of things depending on what hitbox you hit them with. the 1st and 2nd phase of hitboxes act differently.
1st phase starts on the 12th frame just after your invincibility will end and will send the opponent at 10 degrees with 12 knockback first 2 hitboxes that come out do 1 damage and the second do 2 damage. which repeats 5 times.
Basically they could be reset hitboxes however the move has a second phase and basically has half a second of endlag from 27-59th frame.
2nd phase starts on the 27th frame the interal hitboxes do 5 damage, 361 degrees of knockback, 50 base and 100 knockback growth the external do 4 damage and 40 base and same degree of knockback. this phase is DI dependent.
So basically if you want to use naryu's love you need to 1. know when the opponent is going to be in tumble % and 2. use naryu's on top of them at the last possible moment. If I'm going to use naryu's I use a JC one as you can try and land on the ground between the 17-27th frame (can be learnt visually if you look at zeldas hand position; her arms should be fully stretched out on first spin when you hit the ground) which should give the best results as the opponent will have 10 frames to put in a DI input that you can use to your advantage. You don't want to do it too early as they will be able to DI out before the 27th frame hitboxes. Reason you need to know the tumble is that you get a chance to not be punished for using naryu's. for fox his tumble % is around 35 HP. Just keep dtilting cpu until they start tumbling to find out %s (if someone knows of a thread with data for this would be nice ).
naryu's hitboxes also shift away from her in phase 2 from the direction zelda is facing. So if you are going to jump over an opponent/go too far you need to reverse before using naryu's.
Naryu's can give some stage control especially against marth if you can get close to him. If I get a naryu's off most of the time you can wavedash Dsmash or run up dsmash after it, but they have to be over their tumble % for it to work at all as you will still be stuck in endlag and they won't without it
note: The knockback isn't weight dependent either
also I came 25th in 104 man melee tourney this weekend, was alright but got knocked out by a pikachu player I train with and was TOing the event with :/.