Shulk as a secondary for Ness?

ADAS20

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
32
#2
Any char can be a secondary as long as you like that char. Although some secs are more optimal than others.
 

127

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
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Best Coast
#3
Yeah I like Shulk and how he somewhat fits into Ness's defensive style of bait and punish. I'll go ahead and learn how to do that dial tech...
 

127

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Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
64
Location
Best Coast
#4
I think I should have been clearer about my question, as I'm seeing how Shulk is great for soft to hard countering a lot of Ness's counters. In all honesty, I'm going to keep on playing only Ness until I feel comfortable switching back and forth, so I'll only be labbing with Shulk until that day comes (I'm pretty much in the late stages of being a beginner and I've finally decided Ness as my main, so completely diving into a secondary is a little premature of me)
 
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#5
I think I should have been clearer about my question, as I'm seeing how Shulk is great for soft to hard countering a lot of Ness's counters. In all honesty, I'm going to keep on playing only Ness until I feel comfortable switching back and forth, so I'll only be labbing with Shulk until that day comes (I'm pretty much in the late stages of being a beginner and I've finally decided Ness as my main, so completely diving into a secondary is a little premature of me)
That's good to hear your considering Shulk as a character. I believe with the game still being relatively new it's important to decide which characters fit your play style. I personally "WOULDN'T" recommend Shulk as a Secondary at least not at this time. His play style can be utilized as a bait and punish you are correct there, yet imo it's much deeper than that. He's a very dynamic character, and one of the most difficult to master. Knowing when to switch Monado arts, and learning his advanced techniques takes a considerable amount of time, matches, and experience.

As a new player you may feel discouraged seeing peers and other players "seemingly" surpass you in skill with more simplistic characters. It takes time to learn this character, and even professional players such as "Nicko" are having lackluster results competitively due to the dynamics of his character and exploitable weakness such as range, camping, and simply being outmaneuvered.

Personally as a character I believe Shulk has the utmost potential the longer the game is out, I think played perfectly he appears in a "Tier" of his own due to his flexibility. As a secondary, you would be better utilizing a character with similar range. Cloud, Lucina, and even Marth could prove more valuable as a secondary when compared to Shulk.

If you are considering Shulk you will be considering this game for the long haul. If you grow to learn this game utilizing Shulk primarily he would be an invaluable asset to you. Players are still learning new things about this character every day, he's not on the chopping block for nerfs, and due to the low play % you will most likely discover some new tricks with him yourself and face people that are completely unaware of your attack patterns.

Now to summarize:

If you want to use Shulk as a secondary to cover your Primary Ness, you will need to understand it will be difficult to use him viably as a safe counter. There are other characters such as Cloud, Lucina, Marth, and even Ike that could fill this position without near as much experience or play time.

While difficult to use as a Secondary, results as a Primary may prove to be lackluster as well. Even seasoned Shulk players such as "Nicko" have difficulty beating opponents with lesser skill due to his exploitable weaknesses, and lack of data on the character. Most characters you will play against will be "more" common such as Yoshi, Mario, Joker, etc. will have tons of pro video's, kill confirms, and movement guides to grant them advantage.

Low Play %, while this can be seen as "negative" Shulks potential is unseen due to the low percentage of players utilizing him. This can be a powerful weapon due to players unsuspecting of Shulks behavior and the constant switching of his Monado's to throw off the opponent. Good Shulk players are usually granted with a lot of respect due to the creative set-ups and originality of play.

Personally... I love this character and he's the only character I feel I need to play. The learning curve for Shulk is very steep but once you start "learning" it becomes very consistent and your win rate greatly exceeds losses. He's in a tier of his own, and can be grown with the player as you learn new things from the game and even other characters. I commend you for wanting to pick him, up and definitely try him out! Let me know if I can help in any way.

I have included a Pro video of "Nicko" utilizing Shulk, and a personal Montage of my own for "credibility". I'm currently 4,996,600 GSP online with Shulk and have competed in a few tournaments and placed.

OmegaxFury:


Nicko:

 
Last edited:

127

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
64
Location
Best Coast
#6
That's good to hear your considering Shulk as a character. I believe with the game still being relatively new it's important to decide which characters fit your play style. I personally "WOULDN'T" recommend Shulk as a Secondary at least not at this time. His play style can be utilized as a bait and punish you are correct there, yet imo it's much deeper than that. He's a very dynamic character, and one of the most difficult to master. Knowing when to switch Monado arts, and learning his advanced techniques takes a considerable amount of time, matches, and experience.

As a new player you may feel discouraged seeing peers and other players "seemingly" surpass you in skill with more simplistic characters. It takes time to learn this character, and even professional players such as "Nicko" are having lackluster results competitively due to the dynamics of his character and exploitable weakness such as range, camping, and simply being outmaneuvered.

Personally as a character I believe Shulk has the utmost potential the longer the game is out, I think played perfectly he appears in a "Tier" of his own due to his flexibility. As a secondary, you would be better utilizing a character with similar range. Cloud, Lucina, and even Marth could prove more valuable as a secondary when compared to Shulk.

If you are considering Shulk you will be considering this game for the long haul. If you grow to learn this game utilizing Shulk primarily he would be an invaluable asset to you. Players are still learning new things about this character every day, he's not on the chopping block for nerfs, and due to the low play % you will most likely discover some new tricks with him yourself and face people that are completely unaware of your attack patterns.

Now to summarize:

If you want to use Shulk as a secondary to cover your Primary Ness, you will need to understand it will be difficult to use him viably as a safe counter. There are other characters such as Cloud, Lucina, Marth, and even Ike that could fill this position without near as much experience or play time.

While difficult to use as a Secondary, results as a Primary may prove to be lackluster as well. Even seasoned Shulk players such as "Nicko" have difficulty beating opponents with lesser skill due to his exploitable weaknesses, and lack of data on the character. Most characters you will play against will be "more" common such as Yoshi, Mario, Joker, etc. will have tons of pro video's, kill confirms, and movement guides to grant them advantage.

Low Play %, while this can be seen as "negative" Shulks potential is unseen due to the low percentage of players utilizing him. This can be a powerful weapon due to players unsuspecting of Shulks behavior and the constant switching of his Monado's to throw off the opponent. Good Shulk players are usually granted with a lot of respect due to the creative set-ups and originality of play.

Personally... I love this character and he's the only character I feel I need to play. The learning curve for Shulk is very steep but once you start "learning" it becomes very consistent and your win rate greatly exceeds losses. He's in a tier of his own, and can be grown with the player as you learn new things from the game and even other characters. I commend you for wanting to pick him, up and definitely try him out! Let me know if I can help in any way.

I have included a Pro video of "Nicko" utilizing Shulk, and a personal Montage of my own for "credibility". I'm currently 4,996,600 GSP online with Shulk and have competed in a few tournaments and placed.

OmegaxFury:


Nicko:

Dude, thank you so much! You don't know how perfectly timed this post was. I've personally been becoming bored of Ness as I feel like I always have to do the same thing to win/lose. I love playing aggressive while putting up pressure to really get you to make a mistake (and then get a grab LOL) but I love this game not because of winning alone, but to have fun, and I simply just get bored of doing the same thing in every matchup, because then that takes personality out of the character for me. I believe I will now work on making Shulk my new main :D
I understand what that means as far as the learning curve is concerned, but the VOD you showed me shows how fun Shulk can be. In the end, I want to show other people how exciting this game can be, and I'm seeing how characters like Ness and Olimar just seem to suck some of the fun of watching. I also enjoy learning new things every day and I've become very tired of all 5 of Ness's combos.

With that, I just have one question: I was trying to put together a Ness matchup guide on his forum, but I feel like I should just delete it since I've lost interest in coming back to it, is that okay LOL
 
Joined
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#7
but I love this game not because of winning alone, but to have fun, and I simply just get bored of doing the same thing in every match-up, because then that takes personality out of the character for me. I believe I will now work on making Shulk my new main :D
I respect that a lot man, your a true Smasher imo, nd i'd love to add you and clash w/ you from time to time. I also seek personal growth and am not too concerned with W/L ration and GSP numbers. I enjoy the journey of learning on and off the game, and when it comes to a match you either win, or you lose. It's not a reflection of your caliber as a human being, it simply reflects your current ability and where you need to grow... and sadly I think a lot of people forgot that along the way.

I understand what that means as far as the learning curve is concerned, but the VOD you showed me shows how fun Shulk can be. In the end, I want to show other people how exciting this game can be, and I'm seeing how characters like Ness and Olimar just seem to suck some of the fun of watching. I also enjoy learning new things every day and I've become very tired of all 5 of Ness's combos.
Yes, it honestly sounds like Shulk is your type of character. You should probably get to working on this long treacherous journey ahead of you :ultshulk:, but i'm always around and while nowhere close to Nicko in terms of raw skill, I can safely say i'm pretty good with Shulk. He is a lot of fun to use, every game is a different game where you discover new set-ups, pace your abilities out, and figure out how to exploit your opponent. I think most games I "freestyle" with no pressure, and typically only play "safe" at tournaments or when money is involved. Yet I've heard my "safe" is still quite daring HAHA whatever that means. I just personally enjoy the game as well, and I personally believe Shulk is the personification of how this game was meant to be played.

With that, I just have one question: I was trying to put together a Ness matchup guide on his forum, but I feel like I should just delete it since I've lost interest in coming back to it, is that okay LOL
This is honestly your choice, I would say if you have data on a character it's your responsibility to share it with the community. The smash community is becoming very toxic, to bullying 15 year old girls, to making pro's like Zero not wanna interact with them very much. I believe we need to fix this at an individual level, and if you can possibly help out another player, then you should. Just be the better person, and hopefully this community will become what Sakurai intended.

I'm always around if you have questions about Shulk, beginner advice for him. DO NOT rely on Monado's and switching through them until you have a firm understanding of "Vanilla" Shulk. I played many beginner games not using any Monado's and can usually still hold my own. If you are feeling comfortable in a match, try some stuff out. Put on Speed see if you can rack up a good combo or if your having trouble winning neutral. Use Jump to give yourself some breathing room, and if you need to reset neutral or recover. Shield is very good for surviving at high damage, and I typically rely on it at higher percents to get some final hits in. Buster... man that's one of my favorites use this if your opponent plays very defensive and break that shield, seriously, it's also good to use at high percents variably with Shield, I typically rely on it when I'm a stock ahead, or as a hail mary for my final stock haha. Smash is my all time favorite it creates a sudden death scenario and many players will change their fighting habits simply when you put this on, it can be used offensively, defensively whatever you wanna do I typically use Smash when an opponent is recovering and turn it on only as i'm about to attack for a surprise. It can kill people at very low percents so it can really change the game.

Sorry for talking your ear off haha, I just love this game and this character! Good luck man, looking forward to getting some matches in with you. "This was a good result!"
 

127

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
64
Location
Best Coast
#8
I respect that a lot man, your a true Smasher imo, nd i'd love to add you and clash w/ you from time to time. I also seek personal growth and am not too concerned with W/L ration and GSP numbers. I enjoy the journey of learning on and off the game, and when it comes to a match you either win, or you lose. It's not a reflection of your caliber as a human being, it simply reflects your current ability and where you need to grow... and sadly I think a lot of people forgot that along the way.



Yes, it honestly sounds like Shulk is your type of character. You should probably get to working on this long treacherous journey ahead of you :ultshulk:, but i'm always around and while nowhere close to Nicko in terms of raw skill, I can safely say i'm pretty good with Shulk. He is a lot of fun to use, every game is a different game where you discover new set-ups, pace your abilities out, and figure out how to exploit your opponent. I think most games I "freestyle" with no pressure, and typically only play "safe" at tournaments or when money is involved. Yet I've heard my "safe" is still quite daring HAHA whatever that means. I just personally enjoy the game as well, and I personally believe Shulk is the personification of how this game was meant to be played.



This is honestly your choice, I would say if you have data on a character it's your responsibility to share it with the community. The smash community is becoming very toxic, to bullying 15 year old girls, to making pro's like Zero not wanna interact with them very much. I believe we need to fix this at an individual level, and if you can possibly help out another player, then you should. Just be the better person, and hopefully this community will become what Sakurai intended.

I'm always around if you have questions about Shulk, beginner advice for him. DO NOT rely on Monado's and switching through them until you have a firm understanding of "Vanilla" Shulk. I played many beginner games not using any Monado's and can usually still hold my own. If you are feeling comfortable in a match, try some stuff out. Put on Speed see if you can rack up a good combo or if your having trouble winning neutral. Use Jump to give yourself some breathing room, and if you need to reset neutral or recover. Shield is very good for surviving at high damage, and I typically rely on it at higher percents to get some final hits in. Buster... man that's one of my favorites use this if your opponent plays very defensive and break that shield, seriously, it's also good to use at high percents variably with Shield, I typically rely on it when I'm a stock ahead, or as a hail mary for my final stock haha. Smash is my all time favorite it creates a sudden death scenario and many players will change their fighting habits simply when you put this on, it can be used offensively, defensively whatever you wanna do I typically use Smash when an opponent is recovering and turn it on only as i'm about to attack for a surprise. It can kill people at very low percents so it can really change the game.

Sorry for talking your ear off haha, I just love this game and this character! Good luck man, looking forward to getting some matches in with you. "This was a good result!"
This is all really good stuff man!! Thank you so much!!! The most I had honestly done for Ness matchups was putting together a VOD library for the Ness-cord while they're working on his MU sheet, they said it helps a lot, so I think I'll continue to maintain it :D (originally I was thinking about taking it down LOLZ) Eh, I can always pull out Ness if I feel like it ;)

I like your advice on getting good with vanilla Shulk first, I'll definitely start there (once I'm home from my break anyway XD)
 
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