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Show Me Ya Frames

Luxor

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Frame data threads o.0
Buffered UAir

oops i JC USmash'd lol
Well Luxor I just tested it and yeah, JC Usmash.
You can do a Uair very quickly after the SH but not during, so no buffered SH Uair.
I've done it in-game too. If you read what I said, you can't tilt the stick the whole way up. There's a specific spacing to where you tilt the control stick- anything from about 1/3 to 3/3 of the way up is a JC Usmash, and from about 0 to 1/6 is Nair, but from about 1/6 to 1/3 is buffered Uair. Only then is it actually buffered. Try it out for yourselves- go to training mode and see what it's like buffering Nair and what it's like buffering JC Usmash, then try all the spots inbetween. You will get Uair. Trust me.

Input summary: barely tilt the control stick up
X/Y+A quickly
C-stick doesn't work.
 

A2ZOMG

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I think it's worth mentioning how RIDICULOUSLY safe D-smash 2nd hit is on block. -14 on block is amazing. Most if not all shieldgrabs can't punish it easily due to the pushback and on shield drop there is only a 7 frame window to punish it, and most dash attacks and dash grabs aren't that fast. Considering that the move has deceptively awesome range, I really want to emphasize that it's a very good move.

Also some of your hit advantage values don't make sense (all at 0% I assume), and I would like research done on the Jab 3 link back into Jab 1, which I know is a percent based combo.
 

lordhelmet

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Yes, dsmash is very safe especially with the shield sliding (term?) it causes.

Hit advantage is the difference between how long it takes each character to shield. So if I jab 3 Link at 0% and go to shield I have a negative frame advantage because of such low hitstun, and as a result Link's shield comes out faster.

I may be wrong and jab 1 prevents some of the cooldown lag but that's pretty unlikely, and hard to test frankly.
 

Luxor

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Jab3-->Jab1 comes out 2 frames slower than shielding which happens a RIDICULOUSLY long time after Jab3 anyway. I highly, highly doubt that Jab3 true comboes into Jab1 on any character at any percent. MAYBE Bowser at like 100%+. For Jab3 to link to Jab1, Jab3 would have to add 13 frames of hitstun and no additional knockback, which I don't see happening.
 

teluoborg

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Ok just tested that buffered Uair stuff, and it works. But the window is so tight I'd rather not buffer it.
 

A2ZOMG

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Jab3-->Jab1 comes out 2 frames slower than shielding which happens a RIDICULOUSLY long time after Jab3 anyway. I highly, highly doubt that Jab3 true comboes into Jab1 on any character at any percent. MAYBE Bowser at like 100%+. For Jab3 to link to Jab1, Jab3 would have to add 13 frames of hitstun and no additional knockback, which I don't see happening.
Falcon's Jab doesn't work that way. He has weird IASA values on his Jab that I don't fully understand.

His Jab 3rd hit IASA normally links into Rapid Jabs, HOWEVER what I discovered a long time ago is that this IASA can also lead back into Jab 1 if you use certain inputs. By holding the A button, releasing after Jab3, and then timing the A button again at a certain point, Falcon cancels the lag of his Jab3 with Jab1.

Another weird thing is that pressing A twice to do two Jabs, delaying, and then holding the A button causes Falcon to do a Jab 3 that is IMMEDIATELY interrupted by Jab1.

Hence the Gentleman cancel, which I believe needs to be abused more by Falcons. But at any rate, I want some research done on the frames of this AT. At around 100%ish or so, I've done 50% combo strings in training mode on fastfallers to give you an idea how much stun Falcon's Jab3 does and its ability to loop back into Jab1.

And I seem to have heard some discussion about U-air out of shield. Trust me guys, it's really really good (especially against characters like Wario). Just nobody seems to understand except me, partly because I spent hours trying to perfect my useage of buffered U-air out of shield. And one of the neat things about buffered SH U-air is that it actually ends before you touch the ground, enabling you to do a midair jump or aerial specials immediately after.
 

Zeallyx

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Please look into FF Uair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing right after hitting the opponent)->up b. (To see if it is inescapable.)

And the same with FF Bair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing)->up b.

(Both at lower percentages, offc.)
 

Darky-Sama

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Sourspot follow-ups like that should work before 20%. Characters that fastfall or have high knockback resistance at lower percents might be able to buffer a spotdodge or roll though.
 

Zeallyx

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Sourspot follow-ups like that should work before 20%. Characters that fastfall or have high knockback resistance at lower percents might be able to buffer a spotdodge or roll though.
Thats why I'd like it tested.
 

BigLord

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You getting this, lordhelmet? I too am interested... If the uair is stale (Very stale), it might even be a killer combo at 100% for some chars.
 

Darky-Sama

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Not ignoring anyone, I'm just God Tier at procrastinating.
That would be me.

Also... did anyone test what 2Knee asked yet? FF Uair -> Raptor Boost would probably work better since it covers more range, but... if some characters can be up+b'd out of a uair, that's like what? Almost 30%+?
 

Zeallyx

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That would be me.

Also... did anyone test what 2Knee asked yet? FF Uair -> Raptor Boost would probably work better since it covers more range, but... if some characters can be up+b'd out of a uair, that's like what? Almost 30%+?
My point exactly.

So can someone please test it?
 

Zeallyx

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Please look into FF Uair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing right after hitting the opponent)->up b. (To see if it is inescapable.)

And the same with FF Bair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing)->up b.

(Both at lower percentages, offc.)
C'mon, guys^ Please. =)
 

A2ZOMG

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By the way I'd like people to take a moment to realize that there are only 4 idle frames between autoJabs.

What this means is Falcon is guaranteed to **** every 20/25 spotdodge with his autoJab.
 

BigLord

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By autoJab you mean when Falcon holds the A button while standing and hits nothing?
 

lordhelmet

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Please look into FF Uair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing right after hitting the opponent)->up b. (To see if it is inescapable.)

And the same with FF Bair on grounded opponent (lag cancel by landing)->up b.

(Both at lower percentages, offc.)
I tested it a bit, it's not all concrete and perfectly tested because I can tell it's not going to combo into much.

Uair:
5 Bowser 0%
7 Bowser 13%
12 Bowser 25%

Bair Sweetspot:
5 Bowser 0%
18 Bowser 15%

Bair Souspot:
3 Bowser 0%
4 Bowser 8%
5 Bowser 15%
13 Bowser 30%

So no, either move will only combo into a jab or ftilt. Frame Advantage doesn't change much. These numbers are exactly the same on Falcon and likely very close to mid and low weights.
 

teluoborg

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Lordy can you look into jump frame data plz ?
Like how many frames it takes for Falcon to get at the apex of his SH/FH, how long he is airborne during a SH/SHFF and such.
 

teluoborg

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...Frame traps ?

Actually I wanna know how many frames people have to react to Dthrow>buffered SH/FH UAir. Or even if it turns into a true combo at higher percents.

I know the opponent has only 1-2 frames to airdodge at 0% so it's worth looking into it.
 

lordhelmet

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...Frame traps ?

Actually I wanna know how many frames people have to react to Dthrow>buffered SH/FH UAir. Or even if it turns into a true combo at higher percents.

I know the opponent has only 1-2 frames to airdodge at 0% so it's worth looking into it.
Well we already know Falcon can buffer any aerial frame 5. So that's a uair on frame 11.

Anything beyond that is kinda redundant.

"Helmet can you get the data for how long it takes Falcon to dash 3 meters?"

"Yo how long does it take for Falcon to get approximately 23 feet in the air?"
 

Zeallyx

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I tested it a bit, it's not all concrete and perfectly tested because I can tell it's not going to combo into much.

Uair:
5 Bowser 0%
7 Bowser 13%
12 Bowser 25%

Bair Sweetspot:
5 Bowser 0%
18 Bowser 15%

Bair Souspot:
3 Bowser 0%
4 Bowser 8%
5 Bowser 15%
13 Bowser 30%

So no, either move will only combo into a jab or ftilt. Frame Advantage doesn't change much. These numbers are exactly the same on Falcon and likely very close to mid and low weights.
Thnx

2bad
 

Chsal

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Uair:
5 Bowser 0%
7 Bowser 13%
12 Bowser 25%

Bair Sweetspot:
5 Bowser 0%
18 Bowser 15%

Bair Souspot:
3 Bowser 0%
4 Bowser 8%
5 Bowser 15%
13 Bowser 30%
What does the number before the character name refer to?
 

A2ZOMG

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By autoJab you mean when Falcon holds the A button while standing and hits nothing?
Yeah that.

Marth, Falco, and I think Yoshi and Pikachu have an exact 1 frame window to interrupt your autoJab with some attack. Marth has a 20/24 spotdodge and an invincible Up-B, and the last three I think have 20/22 spotdodges 2 frame Jabs that might be able to hit you on the very last inactive frame between autoJabs. But you shouldn't worry about it that much. Link and Toon Link have 20/22 spotdodges but still get ***** by the autoJab no matter what they do.

But the short story is Falcon's autoJab ***** spotdodge, and the majority of the time, spotdodging against him is a very very bad idea. And against all the 20/25 spotdodges, you always know you will hit them if you Jab their spotdodge.
 

lordhelmet

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Hit advantages for FH nair, nair, and uair plz?
OP said:
FH Nair (Fresh) Advantage @ 0 on jump: Link +11, Jiggz +15, Samus +11. The reason this is a good frametrap is that you cannot buffer airdodges or attacks out of hitstun, so Jiggz has a 4 frame window to jump (and likely still get hit) or airdodge without the help of buffering.
Read the OP dude xD

As far as aerials go, I haven't yet collected the data on those. It's extremely difficult to get that data 100% accurate.

Since (IIRC) you can't buffer an attack out of hitstun, I essentially have to run a trial-and-error until I can get the character to attack the first frame possible. Then I have to take the difference between Falcon's cooldown frames and the frames of hitstun the opponent suffered.

Then repeat the process for different characters/percents T_T
 

PZ

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Read the OP dude xD

As far as aerials go, I haven't yet collected the data on those. It's extremely difficult to get that data 100% accurate.

Since (IIRC) you can't buffer an attack out of hitstun, I essentially have to run a trial-and-error until I can get the character to attack the first frame possible. Then I have to take the difference between Falcon's cooldown frames and the frames of hitstun the opponent suffered.

Then repeat the process for different characters/percents T_T
lol kk I see how you n luxor look at the frames?
 

PZ

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Sorry for the bump and double post but I figured out the triping of dtilt.

Today on the wall of ps2 I tripped a snake player with dtilt with the set kncokback.(the hitbox that doesnt pop the opponent up)
 

lordhelmet

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Sorry for the bump and double post but I figured out the triping of dtilt.

Today on the wall of ps2 I tripped a snake player with dtilt with the set kncokback.(the hitbox that doesnt pop the opponent up)
What do you mean by "set knockback"? All 3 of dtilt's hitbubbles have a tripping rate... maybe you have to hit with just one bubble?

It's also likely that the move has to be stale, Ganon's stale dair can induce tripping for example.
 
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