Shine upsmash/grab?

[ppdestroyedme420]

Heyo, made an account to ask this question. I've seen people ask if shine upsmash is guaranteed, and some people say it isn't. I read your opponent has to DI in for shine upsmash to work. However, a lot of people seem to actually not know, and just say it doesn't work... So, I wanted to make my own thread to ask. Also, I haven't heard ANYTHING about whether or not shine -> grab works.

To clarify, I'm not asking if you feel like waveshine upsmash is "safer". I literally want to know if I could make either shine upsmash or grab work by FRAME PERFECT INPUTS. You could treat this like a theory question if you want. Specifically, it'd be great to know if these techniques work even if your opponent SDIs the shine away EVERY TIME.

Thanks in advance for your time, and have a great week! :D

Edit: Haha could we confirm if double shine works while we're at it?

 

[flyboy__]

Hello. I'm surprised nobody has responded to this lol. Shine -> Up-Smash is totally character and SDI dependent. First off, shine up-smash is not guaranteed on characters lighter than Marth, including Fox, Falco and Jigglypuff. This is because the shine sends them into tumble, so they can immediately tech if fast enough (which most are at a mid level).

For characters that you can shine -> up smash, it is possible for them to SDI away and get out of your wavedash range. This SDI is pretty difficult to do consistently: only the top Peach players consistently SDI out of waveshine even though it helps their character immensely and she's better at it than most chars.

Despite all this, drill -> waveshine -> upsmash is still super busted. Practice it a ton.

 

[flyboy__]

Also I don't think double shine is guaranteed by the ledge if that's what you're asking. Don't quote me on this one, but I think if you DI down and away you won't get hit by the second shine (but you will be at a bad angle which is arguably worse).

 

[hangantiya iigo]

A tidbit about those characters who get sent into tumble after shine: I've never seen the shine->upsmash miss on a knocked down character. You can see this in a lot of older fox combo videos. I remember it being most prominent by Alex19 in the mang0+Lucky+Alex19 = esports combo videos. Also, people do say a lot that it doesnt work, but really they just dont have it in their toolset. Shine into something else is a pretty convoluted subject which you could really get lost in, if you indulge yourself.