Event Shine 2019 - Discussion Topic

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#1
It seems like the official seeding of Shine 2019 has been released.
I assume it is still up for changes and I don't know who might DQ but this is now the 3rd biggest Smash tournament in the 2nd season of the PGR after EVO and SSC.
The first pool are scheduled to start at 10:00 a.m EDT.

Anyway, here are the seedings:
https://smash.gg/tournament/shine-2019/events/ultimate-singles/standings

1. MKLeo :ultjoker:
2. Tweek :ultpokemontrainer:
3. Samsora :ultpeach:
4. Marss :ultzss:
5. Nairo :ultpalutena: :ultzss:
6. Light :ultfox:
7. Dabuz :ultolimar: :ultrosalina:
8. ESAM :ultpikachu: (:ulticeclimbers:?)
9. WaDi :ultrob: ( :ultwiifittrainer:?)
10. LeoN :ultbowser:
11. VoiD :ultpikachu: :ultjoker: (probably the biggest ? who he will play)
12. Dark Wizzy :ultmario:
13. Elegant :ultluigi:
14. MVD :ultsnake:
15. Puppeh :ultpokemontrainer: ( :ulthero: ?)
16. ScAtt :ultmegaman: :ultsnake:
17. Mr. R :ultsnake::ultchrom: (:ultinkling:?)
18. Lui$ :ultfox::ultfalco::ultmario:
19. Raffi-X :ultrob:
20. Salem :ultsnake: (:ulthero:?)
21. Wishes :ultjoker::ultpokemontrainer:
22. Riddles :ultrichter:
23. Leffen :ultpokemontrainer:
24. Pandarian :ultpokemontrainer:
25. Gen :ultpalutena:
26. yeti :ultmegaman:
27. Myran :ultolimar:
28. Stroder :ultgreninja::ultmario: (and probably even more)
29. BestNess :ultness::ultpalutena:
30. MuteAce :ultpeach:
31. NickC :ultfalcon:
32. BlazingPasta :ultpeach:
33. Plup :ultridley:
34. Suarez :ultyoshi:
35. Mr. E :ultlucina:
36. Goblin :ultroy:
37. LingLing :ultpeach:
38. Juice :ultzss:
39. Smokk :ultganondorf:
40. Laid :ultlucina:
41. Pelca :ultsnake:
42. 8BitMan :ultrob:
43. DM :ultpikachu:
44. Jw :ultgreninja:
45. ZD :ultfox:
46. Venom :ultken:
47. Jayy :ultpokemontrainer::ultmetaknight:
48. Mew2King :ultbowser: (?)
49. Phantom :ultpalutena:
50. UtopianRay :ultpalutena:
51. Blacktwins13 :ultpichu:
52. Sandstorm :ultryu:
53. Venia :ultgreninja:
54. Jakal :ultwolf:
55. Nuggetz :ultdaisy:
56. Juuuuul :ultrobin:
57. Magister :ultincineroar:
58. Kuma :ultroy::ultjoker:
59. Pugwest :ultlucina:
60. Craftis :ultsonic:
61. Squerk :ultyoshi::ultinkling:
62. MattyG :ultjoker:
63. Kiwi :ultpacman:
64. Axiom XL :ultwario:
65. Ksev :ultsnake:
66. Shyguy :ultpikachu:
67. Ice :ultwolf::ultjoker:
68. Fwed :ultfox:
69. SAUCE :ultmario::ultroy:
70. Atomsk :ultkingdedede:
71. Mystearica :ultzelda: (:ultbayonetta::ultpalutena:?)
72. Sharp :ultwolf:
73. Tony Pajamas :ultness:
74. Roxas :ultjoker: (?)
75. LeeT :ultbrawler:
76. Duwang :ultmario:
77. Unleashed :ultinkling:
78. Z :ultpalutena: (from Montreal)
79. 808 :ultkrool:
80. Ralphie :ultwolf:
81. SH DarkMATTer :ultness:
82. Chrismus :ultinkling:
83. Welfare Pickles :ultsnake:
84. Beast :ultpokemontrainer:
85. BobbyWasabi :ultvillager:
86. Unknown :ultwolf: (?)
87. Ntarps :ultyounglink:
88. Pilgrim :ultolimar:
89. SMB :ultluigi::ultmario:
90. Wildfire :ultrobin::ultwiifittrainer:
91. Exciled :ultbowser:
92. FSharp :ultken:
93. AndrewT :ultness:
94. BONK! :ultmetaknight:
95. MrRyanNess :ultolimar: ( :ultrichter: ?)
96. Hero :ultjoker:
97. Noku :ultpokemontrainer:
98. Riot :ultzelda: (Information is really scarce here)
99. kev_aRos :ulttoonlink:
100. Don :ultmario: (:ultinkling:?)
 
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#2
Lots of really bizarre standing placements here:

- Why is Raffi-X so high? Placing 9th at Smash Con is really good, but enough to be ranked top 20?
- Why is Smokk so high? He does do well at locals, but he hasn't had done much outside of that, especially compared to people ranked lower than him (8BitMan, ZD, Jw, or even Mew2King for that matter).
- Why is yeti ranked so low? While I get he hasn't had quite as much of a major breakout as some of the people ranked above him, he's been performing consistently well compared to them.
- Why is Pandarian lower than Leffen? He's done a lot more competitively than Leffen, and I don't really think Leffen placing higher than him at one tournament really changes that.

I would be surprised LeoN is that high, but considering he placed 2nd at a A Tier event, I'm really not sure. Glad to see he's back in action tho two
 
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#3
Lots of really bizarre standing placements here:

- Why is Raffi-X so high? Placing 9th at Smash Con is really good, but enough to be ranked top 20?
- Why is Smokk so high? He does do well at locals, but he hasn't had done much outside of that, especially compared to people ranked lower than him (8BitMan, ZD, Jw, or even Mew2King for that matter).
- Why is yeti ranked so low? While I get he hasn't had quite as much of a major breakout as some of the people ranked above him, he's been performing consistently well compared to them.
- Why is Pandarian lower than Leffen? He's done a lot more competitively than Leffen, and I don't really think Leffen placing higher than him at one tournament really changes that.

I would be surprised LeoN is that high, but considering he placed 2nd at a A Tier event, I'm really not sure. Glad to see he's back in action tho two
I'm also surprised Mystearica and Ralphie are seeded that low, especially the former with a recent 3rd place finish at a C-tier where he placed better than numerous PGR players (like Goblin).
Anyway, it's just seedings but some are really questionable. I wonder if they'll update it eventually...wouldn't be the first time.
 
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#4
Looks like Mystearica dropped out of it. At least I can't find him in the brackets.

Guess that makes Shine a tournament I'm not really interested in...

*sigh*
 
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#5
From the looks of it, Bankai (a :ultpokemontrainer: from Dill's and Venia's region) is seeded there in place of Mystearica as the 67th seed.

They also updated the Top 100 seedings:

- Goblin is moved up higher (36 to 31)
- Salem is moved up higher (20 to 17)
- Wishes is moved up higher (21 to 18)
- Smokk is moved down (37 to 44)
- Jw is moved up higher (44 to 39)
- Pandarian switched places with Leffen

That's some of the changes I saw.
 
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Impax

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#6
Is this the first major tournament magister has been to in a while or has he not been doing as well? He seemed to consistently place well (like 33rd) ar major tournaments.
 
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#7
According to his SmashWiki page, the last two major tournaments Magister attended were Smash n' Splash and CEO; he got 81st and 97th respectively.
 
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BuffKirby

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#9
Few thoughts to express here:
808 (:ultkrool:) appears to be, according to the K. Rool page, one of the best K. Rool players in the U.S., and if I recall correctly, 4th pr’ed in Rhode Island. Taken sets off a few notable players, so it’ll be interesting to see how the Kremling King does to counter his poor perception.

Atomsk (:ultkingdedede:) had quite a washout at Smash Con. Funnily enough, he did better in bracket at the games (Melee) than Ultimate pools. He's had decent showings so far, PR'ed in New Jersey and taking sets off quite a few strong players there (Tristate is scary).

Magister (:ultincineroar:) comes alive - Pleasant to see more high-level Incineroars in action. Compared to launch, the grrrreat tiger flaked quite a bit. There hasn't been much talk in general for him; hoping he shakes up the tournament. Seeding's a bit overrated, considering he's attending less and performing somewhat worse. Still, best not to let guards down.

Riot (:ultzelda:) hasn't been making bigger splashes compared to ven, but he's not doing half bad at all (especially with the local tournaments attending). I'm curious to see how he does in a big tournament. Zelda turning up in tournaments are getting a bit rarer now, but always enjoying to watch them.

:ultkirby::ultpiranha::ultlittlemac::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultjigglypuff::ultisabelle::ultmewtwo::ultcorrinf:: Unless I'm blind, I cannot find them anywhere in the top 100. The buffs from updates for the latter two don't seem to be significant enough to improve their competitive stances.
 

BuffKirby

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#10
Looks like Mystearica dropped out of it. At least I can't find him in the brackets.

Guess that makes Shine a tournament I'm not really interested in...

*sigh*
I can't find Kirby anywhere in highly-stacked tournaments. Yet I still watch tournaments like Shine cuz' I enjoy it and I want to learn from sets on top players.
 
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#11
From what I can tell :ultswordfighter::ultgunner:, and :ultpit: are also nowhere to be seen either. No one really playing the Miis is to be expected, but I was hoping for some Pit players to come out of the woodwork after the buffs; the BAir buff seemed pretty big in particular, but I'm guessing he didn't change all that much from the buffs.

:ultgnw: is nowhere to be seen either, which isn't really surprising given just how much he depends on Maister or Regi for representation (players who are both in Mexico atm).

No :ultshulk:s, either; again, not too surprising given that kome seems to be the only major Shulk player to consider (and maybe Nicko? His track record concerning big events isn't very stellar), and he's in Japan atm.

I can sort of understand where Lacrimosa is coming from; I do admittedly have a bias towards seeing gameplay of select characters in action (:ultkirby::ultgnw::ultlink::ultpacman::ultmario::ultcloud::ultrob: all come to mind), but for me, some sets are just too good to pass up with how insane the top level players are, particularly MKLeo and Samsora.

Also, Riddles made a recent tweet stating that he's feeling really good about his :ulthero:/:ultjoker:. In that case, we can expect to see more Hero and Joker in action, then.
 
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#12
Few thoughts to express here:
808 (:ultkrool:) appears to be, according to the K. Rool page, one of the best K. Rool players in the U.S., and if I recall correctly, 4th pr’ed in Rhode Island. Taken sets off a few notable players, so it’ll be interesting to see how the Kremling King does to counter his poor perception.

Atomsk (:ultkingdedede:) had quite a washout at Smash Con. Funnily enough, he did better in bracket at the games (Melee) than Ultimate pools. He's had decent showings so far, PR'ed in New Jersey and taking sets off quite a few strong players there (Tristate is scary).

Magister (:ultincineroar:) comes alive - Pleasant to see more high-level Incineroars in action. Compared to launch, the grrrreat tiger flaked quite a bit. There hasn't been much talk in general for him; hoping he shakes up the tournament. Seeding's a bit overrated, considering he's attending less and performing somewhat worse. Still, best not to let guards down.

Riot (:ultzelda:) hasn't been making bigger splashes compared to ven, but he's not doing half bad at all (especially with the local tournaments attending). I'm curious to see how he does in a big tournament. Zelda turning up in tournaments are getting a bit rarer now, but always enjoying to watch them.

:ultkirby::ultpiranha::ultlittlemac::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultjigglypuff::ultisabelle::ultmewtwo::ultcorrinf:: Unless I'm blind, I cannot find them anywhere in the top 100. The buffs from updates for the latter two don't seem to be significant enough to improve their competitive stances.
Well, she's about as rare as Ven or Myst attending tournaments. But both don't seem attending here, so that's that.
I've never heard about Riot, so I let myself surprise whether he is doing well or not.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I'll still watch Shine but not with much "excitement".
 
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BuffKirby

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#14
Well, she's about as rare as Ven or Myst attending tournaments. But both don't seem attending here, so that's that.
I've never heard about Riot, so I let myself surprise whether he is doing well or not.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I'll still watch Shine but not with much "excitement".
Riot is an old-school player that was the best Zelda in Brawl and one of the best Zeldas in Smash 4.
 
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#15

I hope nothing happens.
 
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#16

I hope nothing happens.
 
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#17
So..anyone want to take bets how many top PGR ranked players LeoN will potetnially upset? Shine can be the to put Tweek or MKLeo on his list..hehehe
 
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#18
Yeesh, major props to Shine for warning folks about that, and props to WaDi for placing his health first before a tournament.

As for LeoN, if all goes according to the projector aside from Dabuz winning over LeoN (though most tournaments rarely follow the projector), LeoN is projected to fight Leffen first, then Dabuz, and then Tweek. I know Leffen hates :ultbowser:'s guts, so that'll be fun to see if it happens lol
 
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BuffKirby

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#19
Terrifying as LeoN is I wouldn't bet too much on Bowser blowing up people. He'll dominate pools (assuming nobody knows how to deal with the Koopa Tyrant) but quite a few top players have started to take him seriously and study the matchup. (Samsora anyone? Maybe Dabuz and Light too)
 

|RK|

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#20
That really assumes that you think either Bowser or LeoN also won't have studied the MU.

Maybe I'll turn out wrong, but it seems like many if you believe Bowser is bad despite results, and are forming guesses based on that.

I'm gonna call a LeoN top 8 for now, but we'll see!
 
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#21
For me, I'm predicating that LeoN will get pretty far with :ultbowser:; only difference is just that his battles won't be completely one-sided slaughterfests like at Smash n' Splash, given that people will be more knowledgeable at the match-up.

I'm guessing he'll get around the Top 16 level, maybe higher, Bowser is still very much a force to be reckoned with, evidenced by Mew2King's 33rd placement at Super Smash Con.

Also, the last time I tuned in to Shine for doubles (I think it was 3 hours ago), the streaming quality was really choppy; hoping that doesn't happen for the Singles run.
 

Cheryl~

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#23
Our first big upset of the tournament in Top 128:

Blacktwins :ultpichu: 3-1 over Puppeh :ultpokemontrainerf:, sending Puppeh to an early Losers bracket.
 
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#24
Jayyyyyy :ultpokemontrainer::ultmetaknight: also got sent to Loser's by a player named 808 :ultkrool:.

Also good to see that Blacktwins hasn't given up on the little rat in a seas of players that are seemingly ready to drop him at a dime.
 
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NotLiquid

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#26
808 was sent to Losers earlier by Wishes :ultjoker:

Tweek :ultwario::ultpokemontrainerf: 3 - 2 Kiwi :ultpacman:
in an extremely close almost-upset.
 
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#27
Really strong play from Kiwi :ultpacman: and props to her for forcing the switch out of Tweek :ultwario::ultpokemontrainerf:; Tweek did a really good job of mixing things up, but Kiwi did a great job adapting; I think she needed to go for grabs more often in Game 5, Tweek was getting away with shielding too much against her.

Also, Jay :ultpokemontrainer::ultmetaknight: is out against Dunston :ultpikachu:3-1, eliminating him at 97th place.
808 :ultkrool: is out against John Fortnite Kennedy 3-1 :ultsamus:, eliminating him at 65th place (though that placement's actually higher than his seeding).

EDIT: Welfare Pickles :ultsnake: 2-0s Venom :ultryu: to send him to losers; Venom had a really good lead Game 2, but kept dropping inputs unfortunately.

2nd EDIT: Prof3ssor MGW 3-0s Kiwi :ultpacman::ultkirby:, eliminating her at 65th place; it sucks to see her out early after having such a good set against Tweek, but I'm looking forward to seeing how she performs in the future.

3rd EDIT: Jakal :ultwolf: 3-0s VoiD :ultjoker:

Ever since the Pichu nerfs, it looks like VoiD's been struggling to achieve the same level of success with a different character. Major props to Jakal though, a major improvement from his run at Super Smash Con 2019.
 
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Cheryl~

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#28
Jakal :ultwolf: 3-0 over VoiD :ultjoker:

VoiD’s character crisis after dropping Pichu is getting kind of sad to see but I’m sure he’ll bounce back eventually, all games were close.
 
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#29
Speaking of players struggling to find their footing, MVD :ultsnake: is in losers thanks to S... :ultwiifittrainer:; all signs are pointing to a 65th placement yet again, but I think he can bounce back.

UtopianRay :ultpalutena: is also in losers from Roxas :ultjoker:.

DM :ultpikachu: 3-0s Pandarian :ultpokemontrainer:. Other Pikachu players besides ESAM are slowly, but surely emerging out of the woodwork.
 
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#31
bestness switched from ness to palutena to deal with a hero MU and won 3-1. ness issues with swords remains consistent even if the frame data on the sword character is bad.
 
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#32
From the looks of it, I think the bigger problem was actually :ultness:'s lack of mobility; he had a hard time keeping up with:ulthero:'s faster ground mobility, which allowed him to get away with self-buffs like Oomph, Psyche Up, and Bounce. It didn't help that Ness' air movement is pretty mediocre, and that every time BestNess did try to gain on him, Kazeroli would just keep him away with Zapple. Kazeroli couldn't even pull out the Command Selection menu more than a few times without BestNess mercilessly getting on his behind with :ultpalutena:, who's proving to be one of the biggest gatekeepers in Ultimate's meta.

Speaking of which, Zap and Zapple did so much more for Kazeroli in that set than any Command Selection spell aside from Zoom; it's such a strong midrange option that makes sure opponents keep their distance. We didn't see much Neutral B action out of him either.
 
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#33
bestness switched from ness to palutena to deal with a hero MU and won 3-1. ness issues with swords remains consistent even if the frame data on the sword character is bad.
Bestness was winning 2-1 before the switch to Palutena and while the games were close BN wasn’t having any issues. It was more of a “let me warm my Palutena up in case in need her later because I know I’m going to win regardless” something he isn’t a stranger to doing when he’s up and winning.
 
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#34
Bestness was winning 2-1 before the switch to Palutena and while the games were close BN wasn’t having any issues. It was more of a “let me warm my Palutena up in case in need her later because I know I’m going to win regardless” something he isn’t a stranger to doing when he’s up and winning.
he switched because it was a better mu. he was winning close games and after palutena it was way easier. you could even see it in his player cam body language.
also salem falls to a palutena as a hero. 3-2 last hit scenario. salem stole a few stocks due to the palutena doing some edge guard mistakes against kaswoosh.
 

Cheryl~

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#35
Speaking of Hero, Salem’s :ulthero: was able to bring Phantom :ultpalutena: to a very close Game 5 but didn’t pull through, so now Salem is in Losers early in a major... again.
 
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#36
That was a really good game between players and both players improved as the set went on: Phantom started performing better when he timed his NAir edgeguarding and challenged Hero up close more, and Salem likewise when he stopped going for yolo Crit Smashes and used Zoom to mix-up his recovery options.

From the looks of it, Hero's self-buffs (Bounce, Pysche Up, Oomph) are looking to be the best moves in his Command Selection.
 
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#37
the buffs are th eway to go. you get more reward for them for the mana cost and it also removes them from the menu so that also is good. it also helps fix hero's misreable disadvantage.
 
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#39
he switched because it was a better mu. he was winning close games and after palutena it was way easier. you could even see it in his player cam body language.
also salem falls to a palutena as a hero. 3-2 last hit scenario. salem stole a few stocks due to the palutena doing some edge guard mistakes against kaswoosh.
I don’t deny it’s a better MU for sure I’m just making the point of he switch wasn’t an, “I need to switch because of the MU” thing. He went Ness all in his set against Mr. E in an MU that Ness isn’t favored. (Though if you watch that set he was outplaying Mr. E fairly frequently and his downfall was a really idiotic SD game three and had him on tilt game 4.) He was just warming up the Palutena was all.
 
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