Shielding Cross Slash

[Downshift]

Pretty sure this is user error on my part somehow, but I need to figure it out.

If I shield Cloud's non-limit cross slash with a full shield, the last one or two swipes always hit me. I can't shield the whole thing.
My first assumption is that cross slash does so much much shield damage that it can whittle away 70%+ of a full shield before the attack is done, and then the last hits just shield poke because the cross slash hitboxes hit all over the place.

But a move that comes out that fast, with that much disjointed horizontal range, and basically no endlag (~6 frames), that can't even be fully shielded sounds broken AF. That can't be right.

Anyone know what's going on? Do I need to tilt the shield a certain way or something? Or is my only hope to try and parry the final hit?

 

[MERPIS]

You can actually attack in between hits if you jump out of shield

 

[Banjobeast158]

Pretty sure this is user error on my part somehow, but I need to figure it out.

If I shield Cloud's non-limit cross slash with a full shield, the last one or two swipes always hit me. I can't shield the whole thing.
My first assumption is that cross slash does so much much shield damage that it can whittle away 70%+ of a full shield before the attack is done, and then the last hits just shield poke because the cross slash hitboxes hit all over the place.

But a move that comes out that fast, with that much disjointed horizontal range, and basically no endlag (~6 frames), that can't even be fully shielded sounds broken AF. That can't be right.

Anyone know what's going on? Do I need to tilt the shield a certain way or something? Or is my only hope to try and parry the final hit?

I have had similar experiences. It might depend on the frame of the character; just fought a DK where I hit him with limit cross slash and he shielded the whole thing. Yet I could swear that ,many times, I can use plain cross slash and eat through shield. One possibility could be that you took shield damage prior to the cross slash? Or it might depend on how far the character pokes out of their shield as it shrinks.

 

[Lanny]

I haven't seen this very often (but I usually don't end up in cross-slash-on-shield situations) but I don't think the shield damage is that high. Can't you just angle your shield forward if you're getting poked in that situation?

 

[Downshift]

I haven't seen this very often (but I usually don't end up in cross-slash-on-shield situations) but I don't think the shield damage is that high. Can't you just angle your shield forward if you're getting poked in that situation?

If I tilt the shield I usually get poked earlier because I never know which way to tilt the shield because the hitboxes also hit above, behind, below and all around the target.
What are you doing to avoid cross-slash-on-shield situations? When they use that move its disjoint outranges nearly all of my attacks, and they usually use it out of a jump so I can't clash with it and lose the trade.

Maybe I'm respecting it too much?

 

[Lanny]

If I tilt the shield I usually get poked earlier because I never know which way to tilt the shield because the hitboxes also hit above, behind, below and all around the target.

I haven't tested it but my thought was tilting it in towards Cloud. You never end up standing too close to cloud to not get hit, but you can fall out after the start if you're high or far away, so there's always a hitbox up close. To prevent the stab you need your shield to be somewhere you know the hitbox is going to be and there's always one directly in front of cloud. The direction of the cross slash visual effect doesn't actually correspond to the hitbox if that was what you were thinking.

What are you doing to avoid cross-slash-on-shield situations? When they use that move its disjoint outranges nearly all of my attacks, and they usually use it out of a jump so I can't clash with it and lose the trade.

Maybe I'm respecting it too much?

I meant more from the perspective of playing cloud, I rarely go for cross slash unless I think I have a frame advantage for the same reason you usually don't want to throw out dancing blade with fire emblem characters in neutral, the end lag means you get punished on wiff and on shield. Particularly on characters with a quick smash with good range like Lucina, you end up eating an f-smash pretty reliably.

Trying to trade usually isn't a good idea but if you're getting hit with it a lot try to dash dance out and punish in the end lag.

 

[Downshift]

I haven't tested it but my thought was tilting it in towards Cloud. You never end up standing too close to cloud to not get hit, but you can fall out after the start if you're high or far away, so there's always a hitbox up close. To prevent the stab you need your shield to be somewhere you know the hitbox is going to be and there's always one directly in front of cloud. The direction of the cross slash visual effect doesn't actually correspond to the hitbox if that was what you were thinking.

That's good to know, I can try that. It seems like I never get the chance to try and punish in the first place because I always get poked when I don't tilt the shield.

I meant more from the perspective of playing cloud, I rarely go for cross slash unless I think I have a frame advantage for the same reason you usually don't want to throw out dancing blade with fire emblem characters in neutral, the end lag means you get punished on wiff and on shield. Particularly on characters with a quick smash with good range like Lucina, you end up eating an f-smash pretty reliably.

Maybe it's because I use characters with slow or short ranged OoS options like Samus, Zelda, Mewtwo, Palutena, Lucario, but I can never punish Cross Slash on shield. Whiffing has endlag, but there's only like 4 frames of endlag on hit/shield and it seems only Lucina's Dolphin Slash has both the speed and horizontal range to hit Cloud OoS. Samus and Zelda's UpB OoS don't have the horizontal reach due to the disjoint, while Mewtwo and Palutena don't have anything fast enough before Cloud can shield/roll away.

Trying to trade usually isn't a good idea but if you're getting hit with it a lot try to dash dance out and punish in the end lag.

I'm not always trying to trade, that's just what seems to happen when I take the aggressive option when Cloud is using Cross Slash in the air. I try to hit him from above or below and still get hit since its hitbox has tons of vertical range also and appears to be as big as Bowser. O.o

 

[Lanny]

I'm not always trying to trade, that's just what seems to happen when I take the aggressive option when Cloud is using Cross Slash in the air. I try to hit him from above or below and still get hit since its hitbox has tons of vertical range also and appears to be as big as Bowser. O.o

Yeah, the height of the hitbox is really a lot bigger than it looks like it should be, I've caught people either on platforms or just starting to drop through them with it before, really without meaning to, and being surprised that it hit. I don't use it as an anti-air but I feel like I should start.

I can't speak to your other characters, but with mewtwo you can space cross slash out with ftilt. Also shorthop nair OOS should work, cloud is tall so you won't sail over him and you can get some followups at low and mid percents. Maybe it doen't cover roll in but it covers most his options I think.