Aquamentii
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 178
Trying to figure out the best follow ups out of shield breaks.
There are two scenarios: your opponent breaks their shield and lands on a platform, or lands on the ground.
The difference in these two scenarios is that when your opponent is not on a platform, you can quickly run them over to the ledge to set them up better.
What are some tricks we have to break our opponent's shield?
Unfortunately, we don't have the wicked speed some characters have to hit a shield twice very fast with two normals, and then unleash a third, strong option that can break
our opponent's shield from there, as Diddy's smash attacks don't do the most shield damage.
Oh wait, yes we do!
It's called Rocketbarrel Boost.
We can utilize two of UpB's hitboxes to help break shields from a pretty healthy level. There is a hitbox as Diddy flies past you, and then a hitbox when he crashes into the ground.
By steering yourself into the ground, it's easy to connect both of these hitboxes on an opponent's shield. The result is some pretty significant shield damage.
In fact, f-tilt into upB is a shield break from full. Not saying it's likely to occur that way in a match, but that's how little help it takes for an UpB to break shield.
So, whenever you notice your opponent's shield is low, try surprising them from mid-range with a (uncharged) crash-upB. It's such an unconventional option in neutral, most opponents will probably react with by shielding without considering the consequences.
And if it shield pokes them instead, it's of little consequence. The move does recoil, but it's very strong in and of itself.
Down Tilt is also a noteworthy move for relatively safe chipping-away at shields.
What is the optimal response to a broken shield with this character?
On the ground, working backwards from high %:
High %: 70+
-With optimal DI, Diddy Fsmash kills Simon Belmont (at the ledge on Final Destination) starting at somewhere between 70, 80 %.
-I'm not going to test with all 70 characters so adjust % accordingly to character X's weight relative to Simon's.
Mid %: 55-70
-Right around the time Fsmash comes on line is when another lovely combo stops working, as it becomes DI-able: Nair->Full hop Dair.
-Because of 2.0.0's buff to Nair, this is very easy to pull off.
-It is important to note you must fast fall the nair to give yourself the most time to pull off the combo.
-You MUST hit the Nair at least while on the way down. Rising Nair will never combo.
If you feel you are right around the % threshold where Fsmash may not kill and Nair->Dair may be DI-able, make sure to short-hop your nair and not full-hop,
as the short-hop will have ever-so-slighter knockback. Likewise, if you feel it's a bit early for full-hop Dair, try full hopping into the Nair for a bit of extra %/knockback.
Low-Mid %: 30-50
-Right as Nair->Full hop Dair becomes unviable because of low enough % plus down-and-out DI, Nair->short hop Dair becomes viable.
-Pretty hilarious that we can do this down until around 30% and it just freaking kills.
-You do have to pay attention to your opponent's DI to make sure you get the sweetspot Dair and not the Sourspot, which will not kill at 30, while sweetspot will.
-If your opponent is mashing to try and break out, which some players do, you can bet they won't be expecting to DI a fast and hot combo like this one.
-Don't take that for granted, though. Seriously, glance at their hands and see what their DI is like. You have the time.
-Reminder that sweetspot Dair does 13.2% (fresh) out of short hop, while sourspot does 10.2%. To get the sweetspot, just trust in Diddy's range and try to actually be above your opponent when you Dair them. If you read their DI wrong, you'll probably get the sourspot instead, which won't kill at these low %s.
Low %: 0-30
-At this point, it wouldn't be the worst idea to whip out your baddest combo. Down throw->Dair->Dair is not true offstage, and I would hesitate to put Diddy in an offstage position where he is not in complete control. Diddy has a lot of high-damage combos from low %s using banana and grab combos, and scoring a 50% lead on a broken shield is pretty great if they are too low to kill. Since having your shield broken also resets your shield health instantly in this game, it's not worth it to try some little poke into re-breaking their shield so you can get the kill with a bit more %.
What if they are on a platform, and we can't run them over to the edge?
-Banana infinite
-Banana infinite
-Banana infinite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKNwNvOcgls
The only scenario where THIS doesn't work is on the top of tri-plats, or on the Kalos platforms. In that case, just whip out your baddest banana-combo if they're too low% to kill with a fully charged up/Forward smash.
What do you guys think?
There are two scenarios: your opponent breaks their shield and lands on a platform, or lands on the ground.
The difference in these two scenarios is that when your opponent is not on a platform, you can quickly run them over to the ledge to set them up better.
What are some tricks we have to break our opponent's shield?
Unfortunately, we don't have the wicked speed some characters have to hit a shield twice very fast with two normals, and then unleash a third, strong option that can break
our opponent's shield from there, as Diddy's smash attacks don't do the most shield damage.
Oh wait, yes we do!
It's called Rocketbarrel Boost.
We can utilize two of UpB's hitboxes to help break shields from a pretty healthy level. There is a hitbox as Diddy flies past you, and then a hitbox when he crashes into the ground.
By steering yourself into the ground, it's easy to connect both of these hitboxes on an opponent's shield. The result is some pretty significant shield damage.
In fact, f-tilt into upB is a shield break from full. Not saying it's likely to occur that way in a match, but that's how little help it takes for an UpB to break shield.
So, whenever you notice your opponent's shield is low, try surprising them from mid-range with a (uncharged) crash-upB. It's such an unconventional option in neutral, most opponents will probably react with by shielding without considering the consequences.
And if it shield pokes them instead, it's of little consequence. The move does recoil, but it's very strong in and of itself.
Down Tilt is also a noteworthy move for relatively safe chipping-away at shields.
What is the optimal response to a broken shield with this character?
On the ground, working backwards from high %:
High %: 70+
-With optimal DI, Diddy Fsmash kills Simon Belmont (at the ledge on Final Destination) starting at somewhere between 70, 80 %.
-I'm not going to test with all 70 characters so adjust % accordingly to character X's weight relative to Simon's.
Mid %: 55-70
-Right around the time Fsmash comes on line is when another lovely combo stops working, as it becomes DI-able: Nair->Full hop Dair.
-Because of 2.0.0's buff to Nair, this is very easy to pull off.
-It is important to note you must fast fall the nair to give yourself the most time to pull off the combo.
-You MUST hit the Nair at least while on the way down. Rising Nair will never combo.
If you feel you are right around the % threshold where Fsmash may not kill and Nair->Dair may be DI-able, make sure to short-hop your nair and not full-hop,
as the short-hop will have ever-so-slighter knockback. Likewise, if you feel it's a bit early for full-hop Dair, try full hopping into the Nair for a bit of extra %/knockback.
Low-Mid %: 30-50
-Right as Nair->Full hop Dair becomes unviable because of low enough % plus down-and-out DI, Nair->short hop Dair becomes viable.
-Pretty hilarious that we can do this down until around 30% and it just freaking kills.
-You do have to pay attention to your opponent's DI to make sure you get the sweetspot Dair and not the Sourspot, which will not kill at 30, while sweetspot will.
-If your opponent is mashing to try and break out, which some players do, you can bet they won't be expecting to DI a fast and hot combo like this one.
-Don't take that for granted, though. Seriously, glance at their hands and see what their DI is like. You have the time.
-Reminder that sweetspot Dair does 13.2% (fresh) out of short hop, while sourspot does 10.2%. To get the sweetspot, just trust in Diddy's range and try to actually be above your opponent when you Dair them. If you read their DI wrong, you'll probably get the sourspot instead, which won't kill at these low %s.
Low %: 0-30
-At this point, it wouldn't be the worst idea to whip out your baddest combo. Down throw->Dair->Dair is not true offstage, and I would hesitate to put Diddy in an offstage position where he is not in complete control. Diddy has a lot of high-damage combos from low %s using banana and grab combos, and scoring a 50% lead on a broken shield is pretty great if they are too low to kill. Since having your shield broken also resets your shield health instantly in this game, it's not worth it to try some little poke into re-breaking their shield so you can get the kill with a bit more %.
What if they are on a platform, and we can't run them over to the edge?
-Banana infinite
-Banana infinite
-Banana infinite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKNwNvOcgls
The only scenario where THIS doesn't work is on the top of tri-plats, or on the Kalos platforms. In that case, just whip out your baddest banana-combo if they're too low% to kill with a fully charged up/Forward smash.
What do you guys think?
