Sheik vs. certain matchups

[XRAE]

So I main Sheik but I'm having some trouble with certain matchups, here are a few I would like to know a little more about what to do and which stages should be picked against these characters.

Captain Falcon
Doctor Mario
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Link
Marth
Peach
Samus
Zelda
Luigi
Pikachu

Keep in mind that I'm pretty new to the smash community and can really use the help. Thanks

 

[Scroll]

So my view on this is biased. My opinion is personal so I might not give the correct answer.
But I would say go for the stages you like the most, regardless of what's best for your character vs the opponent's.
I think this is the most important part for newcomers, not necessarily picking the "correct" stage.
Chances are THE correct stage will get struck anyway.

That being said I do have picked up on a bit of the theory mainly from listening to commentators.
The criteria, if I understand it correctly, is knowing what moves the opponent likes to kill with and what their neutral game is like.
For example Fox. He really loves to kill you upwards.
So if you can get a high ceiling, that's probably preferred. Dreamland comes to mind.
And so you want to avoid Yoshi's.
Yoshi's is my favourite stage so I always opt to strike to it anyway

With that in mind look up the stage sizes, blast zones and ceilings and work out your own strategy. Try it out in practice and update it over time.

 

[SomeJew]

So just remember my advice is based off of my experience

Pikachu: I feel this matchup comes down to a lot of spacing. You can chain grab so try to keep that in mind. Don't get caught in their down smash remember to F-CKING DI if they catch you in the air, especially if they catch you after you use your second jump. WD back and then run in with a JG is always helpful.

Zelda: I've rarely seen this fight so idk

Peach: Play smart. Don't chase her off of mid stage. Try to make her play on the offense w/ needles. Down throw her into any type of arial. When I play this, I try to keep her above me. Plz do not crouch cancel her down smash. I usually WD in and out to bait out her F-air or dash attack.

Marth: I mean technically this is supposed to be an easy matchup but at higher levels not too much. Always DI away whenever you get down thrown. When you recover, ALWAYS recover low. Chain grabbing works for a fat minute. Try to bait out the F-smash. I usually camp needles, force him to approach and then punish. A common Marth thing is two down tilts and then the run up for a grab. You wont be able to WD far away enough so try to spot dodge. When edge-guarding him, time your attack in between his side B's.

Link: Be aggro af and don't let him pull bombs. All I gotta say about that

Doc: Get him offstage and edgeguard. Watch out for his crouch cancels, try to keep him in the air

Capt: Spot dodge, chaingrab and F-tilt the hell out of him. If he sucks at approaching from the air, shield nd' grab.

Samus: Try to stay close. Spot dodge or shield the rockets. You can't chaingrab. Remember to needle her recoveries. Keep her in the air but watch out for her damn bombs.

Falco: Your are gonna lose most of the neutral game, just be ready for that. If he keeps approaching from the air, like Capt, shield and grab. Get him offstage and gimp him.

Fox: Ugh

Ganondorf: Chain grab, shield grab and edge guard. RESPECT HIS ARIAL ATTACKS THO

Luigi: He's weird. Honestly all Luigis I know play differently so I'm like wut...

 

[XRAE]

Thank you guys for helpung a fellow melee player out, I really appreciate it Since I have posted this thread I have gotten better and has helped me a ton I just have a couple more questions on what I'm struggling with now...

So first off I'm having a really hard time hanging in the edge and then bairing or fairing to get the kill...is there any suggestions that would be helpful for me to know...I'm gonna practice it a **** ton...

Also I'm having trouble jumping and throwing needles..I end up up-airing instead and then they combo me...

I don't really know if this certain move is something that I absolutely need to know with Sheik, but I would like to know how to do it general in case the moment comes...So the move is The Shino Stall...I can do it but not that close to the ledge....

Oh one last thing is recovering with Sheik when you know you can't make it so you change to Zelda...how close should you be so you can make it back....and should I pick up Zelda so that way when I change I can attack and change back to Sheik when the moment is right... Cuz I kinda freak out if I make it back with Zelda and don't really know what to do...

Hopefully this all makes sense haha

 

[Scroll]

Thank you guys for helpung a fellow melee player out, I really appreciate it Since I have posted this thread I have gotten better and has helped me a ton I just have a couple more questions on what I'm struggling with now...

So first off I'm having a really hard time hanging in the edge and then bairing or fairing to get the kill...is there any suggestions that would be helpful for me to know...I'm gonna practice it a **** ton...

Also I'm having trouble jumping and throwing needles..I end up up-airing instead and then they combo me...

I don't really know if this certain move is something that I absolutely need to know with Sheik, but I would like to know how to do it general in case the moment comes...So the move is The Shino Stall...I can do it but not that close to the ledge....

Oh one last thing is recovering with Sheik when you know you can't make it so you change to Zelda...how close should you be so you can make it back....and should I pick up Zelda so that way when I change I can attack and change back to Sheik when the moment is right... Cuz I kinda freak out if I make it back with Zelda and don't really know what to do...

Hopefully this all makes sense haha

You know what? Don't worry about any of those things!
I promise you with time all of this will feel completely natural to you.
All you have to do is play.
Vs. the CPU or people - with time you will get more consistant hitting the right buttons.
Anyway it's good to hear you're already better off already

Here are the answers you're looking for though:
Regarding the Bair -
Go to Training Mode and pick any stage.
Now practice doing all the Bair-from-ledge options you have. over and over and over and over
Bair Onto Stage
Bair Regrab
Deep Bairs (see how deep you can go and still make it back)

Use Away to let go. Always Bair after you Double Jump.
Also try Fast Falling then double jump Bair.
And emediatly Bair after letting go.
All the inputs need to come together more or less perfectly, so you need to practice this alot!
Don't worry about Fair from the Ledge.

About jumping and throwing needles. That's completely natural.
What I would do is to go to Training Mode and do some needle practice.
SH Needle 30 times in a row. Every time you mess it up start your count over.
Remember you dont want to Fast Fall SH needles. So your only job is to press JUMP and then press B.
Once you can do that then alternate between SH AC Fair and SH Needle. Do 30 flawless pairs in a row.

The Shino Stall.
The method is described numerous times elsewhere. What part of it proves difficult for you?

About Zelda recovery - VERY rarely do you need to use this.
I'd say don't worry about.
One the other hand it's deffinatly part of what makes Sheik's game optimized.
My tip is, don't worry for now - at some point in the future the need and situations will present themselves and you know you need to learn it/ implement it.
You need really good DI before it's usefull.

 

[yeongy]

Just another sheik newbie passerby with a question adding on about matchups. For some matchups such as spacies or cpt falcons where they have better approach options than you, when is a good time to back off in neutral or after punishing them?

 

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Just another sheik newbie passerby with a question adding on about matchups. For some matchups such as spacies or cpt falcons where they have better approach options than you, when is a good time to back off in neutral or after punishing them?

If I understand your question right, you mean when is it bad to run after them and try and hit them?
If they are at ridiculously high percent where your fair setups dont connect (they stay in hitstun until the Fair connects, aka. true combo) anymore then it is generally a bad idea to jump at them. Anytime you are in the air and not guaranteed to hit the opponent you're in danger. You want to be on the safe ground instead, punishing with a throw off or a horizontal knock back move such as Dsmash or a raw Fair. That or put up a wall of AC Fairs and AC Bairs.
Lemme know if that answers your question

 

[yeongy]

If I understand your question right, you mean when is it bad to run after them and try and hit them?
If they are at ridiculously high percent where your fair setups dont connect (they stay in hitstun until the Fair connects, aka. true combo) anymore then it is generally a bad idea to jump at them. Anytime you are in the air and not guaranteed to hit the opponent you're in danger. You want to be on the safe ground instead, punishing with a throw off or a horizontal knock back move such as Dsmash or a raw Fair. That or put up a wall of AC Fairs and AC Bairs.
Lemme know if that answers your question

yep, that answers my question! so basically against the MU's i mentioned, i want to keep mainly a ground game and space Fairs and Bairs (or Ftilt wall) in neutral and then punish with grabs accordingly?

 

[Scroll]

yep, that answers my question! so basically against the MU's i mentioned, i want to keep mainly a ground game and space Fairs and Bairs (or Ftilt wall) in neutral and then punish with grabs accordingly?

I was talking about when to back down from your pressure.

In neutral there are many many things you can do in these match ups. And it's vastly different in all 3 cases as well.
I can't provide a text book for you, sadly. But other people have written great things about it. Try looking in some of the MU threads.
Btw Ftilt wall is not a thing. Ftilt in close quarters is highly punishable. Use it mostly to stuff approaches or punish very laggy moves such as Falcon's UpB etc.
Sheik is not really a threat in the air and so aerial approaches does not bring a threat. The reason is her drift/ aerial mobility. It's very easy to predict where she is going to land.
Walling/ retreating Bair and Fairs do work however, since it makes it hard for the opponent to get in.
Your best approach is Boost Grab at low percents and DA at higher percents. Both are highly punishable, so make sure you don't get baited too hard into them