TKD
Smash Lord
Dear Nedved:
LOL
1. Camp the ledge.
2. Win.
Sincerely,
TKD
LOL
1. Camp the ledge.
2. Win.
Sincerely,
TKD
-
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
i just want to say Up Smash is amazing.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Know what else is amazing? The back hits of d-smash. But they get no love and it's high time we changed that.
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
show me how
-RedShadow
Smash Ace
....covering tech roll towards at certain positions? idk
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
It seems that if offers a pretty good hitbox above you, and most of your hitbox is in front of you, or below you by a good measure. . .
Maybe it has some merit as an anti-air when you know they're coming in?
This is like a puzzle. . . fun.
Edit to avoid a double post:
I was wondering something, I've been having trouble getting SH needle -> things (on shield or on hit), usually my opponent either CCs, buffers a roll, or shield grabs me for it. Any ideas why I might be messing this up?
Maybe it has some merit as an anti-air when you know they're coming in?
This is like a puzzle. . . fun.
Edit to avoid a double post:
I was wondering something, I've been having trouble getting SH needle -> things (on shield or on hit), usually my opponent either CCs, buffers a roll, or shield grabs me for it. Any ideas why I might be messing this up?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
I think you can drop like 3 or 4 frames by having the last needle come out at a inconvenient time (aka not the frame you land). I also don't think falling needles net too much of an advantage to begin with (Iirc you can never catch them before a spotdodge, no matter how good your execution is)
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
what is the neutral game?
what should i be doing in my neutral game?
what should my goals be in the neutral game?
i suck at the neutral game.
what should i be doing in my neutral game?
what should my goals be in the neutral game?
i suck at the neutral game.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
I be straight grabbin & slappin
darkatma
Smash Hero
Needles are not crouch cancelable because they don't send at an upwards trajectory. They have relatively little stun so if you don't hit with them near the ground they're not going to give you any sort of advantage. Also shielding needles lets people shield grab them a lot, so you see that happen pretty often. VS kage I would needle slightly too far away to bait a shieldgrab, then punish for it.
SH needles are best against people who are either already in the air, or people looking for obvious CCs (peach players).
SH needles are best against people who are either already in the air, or people looking for obvious CCs (peach players).
Quick question, which option is faster to get onto the ledge? (If there's a faster option that I have yet to mention, could you please tell me?)
1) Running shino stall
2) Turn back -> Wavedash onto ledge
3) Short hop reverse needle cancel
Are there any other options I should be familiar as well?
Thank you.
1) Running shino stall
2) Turn back -> Wavedash onto ledge
3) Short hop reverse needle cancel
Are there any other options I should be familiar as well?
Thank you.
Short hop reverse needle cancel.
Assuming you do it quickly.
Assuming you do it quickly.
Beat!
Smash Master
Run-off reverse needle cancel is even faster actually. Takes a bit of practice to learn, though.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
you need to use your DJ after the reverse needle cancel and can't just grab the ledge without it, right?
SyphiliS
Smash Cadet
Apparently Kirbykaze can do it. M2k also said he's done it before but "it's too hard to do consistently to be worth it in tournament."
Beat!
Smash Master
@Xyzz
Nope. If executed properly, it goes run off -> RNS -> grab ledge. At first it may seem as if you need to do the RNS ridiculously fast, but the trick is to start it as early as possible. By that I mean that instead of visually confirming that you're off stage before starting it, you need to begin it at the moment you know you're going to be off stage. Doing so completely shaves off all the frames that would've been wasted on reaction time otherwise, and as a result, the actual RNS is fairly easy to execute (for reference, if you can pull off FH -> RNS -> RNS -> DJ consistently, you should be fast enough).
Nope. If executed properly, it goes run off -> RNS -> grab ledge. At first it may seem as if you need to do the RNS ridiculously fast, but the trick is to start it as early as possible. By that I mean that instead of visually confirming that you're off stage before starting it, you need to begin it at the moment you know you're going to be off stage. Doing so completely shaves off all the frames that would've been wasted on reaction time otherwise, and as a result, the actual RNS is fairly easy to execute (for reference, if you can pull off FH -> RNS -> RNS -> DJ consistently, you should be fast enough).
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Haha, I am not. I don't really practice sheik tech, i just f/d-tilt people 
But well, this sounds actually useful... Fast ledgegrabs are amazing
But well, this sounds actually useful... Fast ledgegrabs are amazing
Beat!
Smash Master
It's certainly useful. The question is if it's useful enough to be worth practicing for Sheik mains, or if they're better off practicing other stuff instead (in other words, actual advantage gained in real matches vs time spent practicing it).
I can only run off RNC grab ledge from platform stages.
It's actually kinda fun to do.
It's actually kinda fun to do.
TKD
Smash Lord
Well, what i see m2k do vs fox is aerial to tilt or aerial to grab or dashdance grab. Mostly with autocancel fair. You just can't mess with autocancel fair; almost no landing lag (it's 2 frames). The fair doesn't have to connect. Bair to dash away to stuff is pretty goods. Mostly you just can't approach because Sheik's approach sucks. Neutral game is mostly having a feel for where fox wants to go and put a hitbox there. Kirbykaze does it really well; m2k does it good too. Also outcamping lasers with needles and inching inwards if he keeps camping.
vs falco just try to land whatever you can, approach from an angle above him or from the ground or beat him to doing stuff since Sheik is a more explosive character outside shine range (start-up on stuff is a bit shorter on most things). If he touches your shield, you can gamble your nair or shieldgrab out of shield, maybe wavedash; but a lot of times it's just safer to c-stick a roll as soon as a fast-fall aerial touches your shield. I feel it's mostly better to initiate from neutral than to try to retaliate while he has you locked down (since just one aerial or shine from him can end up with you feeling like a training mode CPU).
vs peach it's all about mobility. You're more mobile so you can play around her while landing your stuff.
Marth can **** you by dashdancing around so stop him with needles and ftilt. Boost grabs are a good surprise vs him...they work a lot for some reason. And always watch out for the fsmash if he's not dashing (if he's either walking or just finished a wavedash).
Camping bair is super good in lots of match-ups if you have time to do it as tipper bair is absolutely amazing. Just don't abuse it or you'll lose ground.
vs IC...lol. Lots of camping. Tons of fairs and needles from above. Tipper bair is a good surprise but use it sparingly, as one wavedash crouch cancel may very well end your stock (grab, wobble, ggs).
vs puff is kinda similar to IC. You can't go for grabs and such much. So it's campy too. Bait stuff and punish cool-downs with aerials or whatever you can or punish with quick aerials from block (just don't stay in shield long enough for puff to uair it...tons of shieldstun). Tons of needles. From both air and ground. Tons of punishing cool-downs. And I know this is about neutral but remember to edgeguard her. Either bait aerials and punish with your own or use invincibility from the ledge to hit him. I'm not sure how aware people are of the importance of edgeguarding puff (be SAFE though as carelessness will end with you offstage).
As a side note, I was really good at Brawl and I gotta say fighting puff feels a LOT like playing Brawl. Punishing cool-downs, baiting aerials, camping, conservativeness...it's melee's sleek and mobile Sheik though so it's still more exciting.
Basically bair or ac fair into stuff. Make them think they have an opening. Camp needles. Chase platform campers well (waiting for people to land on platforms with aerials is specially good as you can punish landing cooldown from below...uair holds big rewards and nair/bair are easy to land; specially bair). And be really conservative against Sheik's bad match-ups (falco/puff/ics).
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Guys how do I beat Game and Watch in this game.
This character is weird and I know he's supposed to be bad, but I'm still struggling. Can anyone help me?
This character is weird and I know he's supposed to be bad, but I'm still struggling. Can anyone help me?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
You might want to point out your exact issues, if you can figure them out.
In general GaW has an awful shield which tends to get stabbed without even trying, and his rolls are abysmal (hell, if you react to the start up of it and just fire your punish right away, chances are that you'll miss because he won't make it to you in time :D)
He has fairly good aerials, and a nice dtilt. It's definitely his defense that makes him trash-tier, not his respectable offensive options.
In general GaW has an awful shield which tends to get stabbed without even trying, and his rolls are abysmal (hell, if you react to the start up of it and just fire your punish right away, chances are that you'll miss because he won't make it to you in time :D)
He has fairly good aerials, and a nice dtilt. It's definitely his defense that makes him trash-tier, not his respectable offensive options.
Kadano
Magical Express
Option 2 is the fastest. Pivot edgehog is one frame faster if you are close to the ledge, and wavedash → turn should be as well (see further down for why I’m not sure yet).
I haven’t tested these options for large ranges yet, but for close range, needle cancel edgehogs are pretty slow compared to wavedash edgehog. I was asked this at my first improvised stream session and counted the frames of all options in that video. It was 6 AM where I live, so sorry for being slow and maybe saying something wrong at times.
From my experience, I would expect that the fastest options for wide distance edgehogs is run → wavedash → turn by holding towards the stage → slide off → fastfall. I’m not sure whether this is possible with Sheik, though – in the video above, I was unable to do this as she always turned back from the stage when Turn was edgecanceled.
How does one quickly distinguish a getup attack from a stand tech when tech-chasing with Sheik?
I understand that shield-grabbing is an option to beat out getup attacks, however, by shielding, I'm essentially giving up my ability as Sheik to pursue their tech rolls (I'm assuming wavedash oos into dashing at whatever direction they are tech rolling into boost grab/JC grab is not fast enough/doesn't cover enough distance to allow a regrab).
How does one overcome this?
I'm also wondering if anybody has any upsmash tech-chase setups they'd like to share. I still see upsmashing being used as an option outside of jab resets in prediction to standing techs. I'm wondering why people still attempt it if they've practiced tech-chasing to get a regrab with near certainty - Based on this conjecture, I'm assuming that there are particular setups with upsmashes to trick your opponents to stand tech to roll into Sheik's upsmash.
Thanks.
I understand that shield-grabbing is an option to beat out getup attacks, however, by shielding, I'm essentially giving up my ability as Sheik to pursue their tech rolls (I'm assuming wavedash oos into dashing at whatever direction they are tech rolling into boost grab/JC grab is not fast enough/doesn't cover enough distance to allow a regrab).
How does one overcome this?
I'm also wondering if anybody has any upsmash tech-chase setups they'd like to share. I still see upsmashing being used as an option outside of jab resets in prediction to standing techs. I'm wondering why people still attempt it if they've practiced tech-chasing to get a regrab with near certainty - Based on this conjecture, I'm assuming that there are particular setups with upsmashes to trick your opponents to stand tech to roll into Sheik's upsmash.
Thanks.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
If you see a flash of green as they collide with the ground, they missed a tech (they might do a getup attack if they missed the tech).
Landing an upsmash in certain situations can be more rewarding than landing a grab. It is particularly useful if you don't have the consistency to get an opponent to killing percent easily with techchasing, so Usmash guarantees a strong hit, almost guarantees a follow up, and sometimes can set up for edgeguards. . .
The above advice assumes you're talking about vs. fastfallers.
Also, runoff -> needle cancel -> grab ledge, and jump -> needle cancel -> needle cancel -> DJ are hard.
Landing an upsmash in certain situations can be more rewarding than landing a grab. It is particularly useful if you don't have the consistency to get an opponent to killing percent easily with techchasing, so Usmash guarantees a strong hit, almost guarantees a follow up, and sometimes can set up for edgeguards. . .
The above advice assumes you're talking about vs. fastfallers.
Also, runoff -> needle cancel -> grab ledge, and jump -> needle cancel -> needle cancel -> DJ are hard.
This might be relevant for you, GIFs of spacies tech rolls and getups to get a better look at their animations. Here's the album: http://imgur.com/a/l3Js8 . I like looking at the big green flash for failed techs
Not sure if this has already been posted here somewhere, but I like having a closer look at the animations for tech chasing purposes.
Last edited:
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Exasm you are a wonderful human being; thank you so much for making those. Gonna add them to the OP very soon, I just want to do something with the image files in those gifs first.
I cannot emphasize how happy those animations being available in gif format makes me. I can finally reference tech animation cues with a visual. Huzzah!
I cannot emphasize how happy those animations being available in gif format makes me. I can finally reference tech animation cues with a visual. Huzzah!
Haha, no problem. If you've guys got any other GIF requests, I'll be happy to make them. I just lurked through 100 pages of this topic, figured I could do something in return.
Now, I've got a question of my own as well. My sheik's neutral game is pretty solid, ground wise. But I can't seem to figure out when it's an appropriate time to throw out a SHFFLed fair/nair.
I figured I can use bairs to wall someone in a corner, but my fairs just get me shield grabbed most of the time due to my opponent's constant movement, which I guess makes me misspace. Watching videos of M2K and Amsah, they seem to utilize fair a lot in their neutral, what's their secret;o?
. I just lurked through 100 pages of this topic, figured I could do something in return.Now, I've got a question of my own as well. My sheik's neutral game is pretty solid, ground wise. But I can't seem to figure out when it's an appropriate time to throw out a SHFFLed fair/nair.
I figured I can use bairs to wall someone in a corner, but my fairs just get me shield grabbed most of the time due to my opponent's constant movement, which I guess makes me misspace. Watching videos of M2K and Amsah, they seem to utilize fair a lot in their neutral, what's their secret;o?
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
KK, you never said why you use reverse Dsmash.
Exasm, I think using Fair in neutral is an interesting maneuver, because often Nair works in similar ways, but stays out longer. I usually use Fair in neutral whenever I'm trying to cover a very specific position without too much commitment. For example, if you just Faired them, and they teched away in a position where they have time to put up their shield, and you can't quite get there fast enough to cover it, you might want to cover some of their options out of shield, so something like jumping over them and Fairing immediately can cover them jumping oos, but doesn't commit you to being above them with a weak move. Another place you might use it is after you waited on a platform, you might try dropping through with a fair to cover your landing, guessing they'll try to punish your descent.
Also, it would be cool to see the tech options in slow motion, or each frame available? That way it is easier to notice differences in the options (mainly how to tell if they're teching in place/toward/away).
I think KK said at some point that after they tech you can look at their feet to tell which way they're going?
Edit: I found by saving the gifs and opening them in a image viewer I can see the frames.
Exasm, I think using Fair in neutral is an interesting maneuver, because often Nair works in similar ways, but stays out longer. I usually use Fair in neutral whenever I'm trying to cover a very specific position without too much commitment. For example, if you just Faired them, and they teched away in a position where they have time to put up their shield, and you can't quite get there fast enough to cover it, you might want to cover some of their options out of shield, so something like jumping over them and Fairing immediately can cover them jumping oos, but doesn't commit you to being above them with a weak move. Another place you might use it is after you waited on a platform, you might try dropping through with a fair to cover your landing, guessing they'll try to punish your descent.
Also, it would be cool to see the tech options in slow motion, or each frame available? That way it is easier to notice differences in the options (mainly how to tell if they're teching in place/toward/away).
I think KK said at some point that after they tech you can look at their feet to tell which way they're going?
Edit: I found by saving the gifs and opening them in a image viewer I can see the frames.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
You can always use sites like http://gif-explode.com/ or any half-decent image processing software (e.g. Gimp) to view these things frame by frame.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
http://smashboards.com/threads/tech-chasing-fast-fallers-on-reaction.343054/#post-16073267
Stuff to consider for those who haven't seen this^
And can someone explain to me why and when you jump as Sheik in neutral?
I don't understand the incentive exactly to jump whilst unprovoked. Either that or I don't understand what Sheik is looking for before she jumps. I pretty much only watch high level Sheiks (m2k/kk) and it honestly just looks like they sort of arbitrarily jump and fair and it works.
Why not just stay on the ground, what is to be gained? How do you go about jumping? Are there any jump/aerial conjunctions that accomplish specific things (like AC SH fair for example)?
(for example with Marth, a specific grounded tool he has is WD forward/in place dtilt)
I guess this question is kinda aimed at Sheik vs Marth
edit:
I realllllly want a solid answer for this, this question has been eating me up since I first mained Sheik like 8 months ago
Stuff to consider for those who haven't seen this^
And can someone explain to me why and when you jump as Sheik in neutral?
I don't understand the incentive exactly to jump whilst unprovoked. Either that or I don't understand what Sheik is looking for before she jumps. I pretty much only watch high level Sheiks (m2k/kk) and it honestly just looks like they sort of arbitrarily jump and fair and it works.
Why not just stay on the ground, what is to be gained? How do you go about jumping? Are there any jump/aerial conjunctions that accomplish specific things (like AC SH fair for example)?
(for example with Marth, a specific grounded tool he has is WD forward/in place dtilt)
I guess this question is kinda aimed at Sheik vs Marth
edit:
I realllllly want a solid answer for this, this question has been eating me up since I first mained Sheik like 8 months ago
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Backwards d-smash just conveniently leads to combos because you're hitting later into the attack and with a weaker part of it.
SH in neutral is basically because you can threaten better with it than you can with your walk or WD (due to WD startup, and the limited movement range of walking). It also protects a different area than her f-tilt.
SH in neutral is basically because you can threaten better with it than you can with your walk or WD (due to WD startup, and the limited movement range of walking). It also protects a different area than her f-tilt.
♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡
Anti-Illuminati
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
The same GIFs on PAL version, please?Haha, no problem. If you've guys got any other GIF requests, I'll be happy to make them
SH Fair is quick enough to allow a waveland upon landing, yet I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this in tourny matches (not that I've seen anywhere near all tourny matches of Sheik players though).
Is SH Fair (baiting) WL grab or SH (retreating) Fair WL back a good idea, or haven't I seen it used for a reason? (Also, please let me know the reason(s) if the latter is true).
Is SH Fair (baiting) WL grab or SH (retreating) Fair WL back a good idea, or haven't I seen it used for a reason? (Also, please let me know the reason(s) if the latter is true).
Math_Hoffa
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 4
In my opinion, It's just not often used because AC fair is similar but better, especially because you can fastfall it and still get the fair out pretty low/late, in contrast to shfair WL
I have a few questions regarding Sheik:
1. Should I DD frequently, sparingly or not at all?
2. I sometimes have some issues with the neutral game: what are the best things to do? I mostly just WD/DD/charge needles/anticipate+dodge and wait for something to punish or an opening, but this doesn't work in all situations.
3. Related to the previous question: what are Sheik's main approaches and best punishes? I mainly use grabs (and then Dthrow shenanigans) and, after grabs, Dash attacks, Ftilts, (SH) needles and Fair (the latter three leading to grabs at lower percentages). Sometimes even WD->Dsmashes. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right and/or that I'm not missing out on anything.
4. And, also related to the two previous questions: in which matchups is it smart to be more agressive?
5. I'm a bit confused about how exactly Sheik's aerials' landing lag works: the problem is that I sometimes (habitually) try to L-cancel Fairs and I lose frames because my shield pops up. So, concretely, which aerials do I concistently have to L-cancel (I'd say Uair, Dair and Nair, but I want to be sure) and how exactly does autocanceling work when it happens (do I not have to worry about L-canceling fairs at all, or are there certain frames in which landing during a Fair nets an L-cancel)?
I'm aware that trial and error could teach me these things, but I only have a relatively small selection of friends who play smash competitively. I am planning on starting to go to tournaments, but, till then, this thread is one of my best sources of information. Thanks in advance!
1. Should I DD frequently, sparingly or not at all?
2. I sometimes have some issues with the neutral game: what are the best things to do? I mostly just WD/DD/charge needles/anticipate+dodge and wait for something to punish or an opening, but this doesn't work in all situations.
3. Related to the previous question: what are Sheik's main approaches and best punishes? I mainly use grabs (and then Dthrow shenanigans) and, after grabs, Dash attacks, Ftilts, (SH) needles and Fair (the latter three leading to grabs at lower percentages). Sometimes even WD->Dsmashes. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right and/or that I'm not missing out on anything.
4. And, also related to the two previous questions: in which matchups is it smart to be more agressive?
5. I'm a bit confused about how exactly Sheik's aerials' landing lag works: the problem is that I sometimes (habitually) try to L-cancel Fairs and I lose frames because my shield pops up. So, concretely, which aerials do I concistently have to L-cancel (I'd say Uair, Dair and Nair, but I want to be sure) and how exactly does autocanceling work when it happens (do I not have to worry about L-canceling fairs at all, or are there certain frames in which landing during a Fair nets an L-cancel)?
I'm aware that trial and error could teach me these things, but I only have a relatively small selection of friends who play smash competitively. I am planning on starting to go to tournaments, but, till then, this thread is one of my best sources of information. Thanks in advance!
Xyzz
Smash Champion
1. Depends on a lot of things; use it whenever the situation you find yourself in suggests that it's a good idea. Pointlessly dashdancing doesn't get you anywhere (especially with Sheik's short DD), but if you can use it to bait out a response that you might be able to punish, go for it. Yeah, this isn't too helpful, but how much you should dash dance is really depending on where your (and your opponents) strengths and weaknesses are.
2. If that doesn't work in all situations, find ways to make it work in all situations In some matchups it can be nice to jump, see what they are doing and react accordingly.
3. Sheik isn't great at approaching, you should try to punish things. Grab / any other launcher is perfect, it leads to techchases/combos, what else would you want? :D
4. I'd say Falcon, because he is a lot faster and should win the neutral game if left unchecked. But on the other hand his defensive isn't that stellar as his attacks generally have quite a high startup. Against anybody else you're usually fine with making them overcommit into your space.
5. Moves autocancel on their own, if you pass the point where they do so (http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html check here or in the frame data thread), no need to press anything. If your shield pops up, you're holding the shield button too long, no need to do that (you don't have to full pres the trigger to l cancel, and actually shouldn't do so (to keep your tech window open).
Auto canceling always occurs after a certain number of frames in the move have passed, so if you start your move early enough before you land it will autocancel.
Trial and error is a waste of time, if you can just ask people who know anyways... better use that time to try the things that can't be conveyed in a few words (e.g. where to dash dance ).
2. If that doesn't work in all situations, find ways to make it work in all situations
In some matchups it can be nice to jump, see what they are doing and react accordingly.3. Sheik isn't great at approaching, you should try to punish things. Grab / any other launcher is perfect, it leads to techchases/combos, what else would you want? :D
4. I'd say Falcon, because he is a lot faster and should win the neutral game if left unchecked. But on the other hand his defensive isn't that stellar as his attacks generally have quite a high startup. Against anybody else you're usually fine with making them overcommit into your space.
5. Moves autocancel on their own, if you pass the point where they do so (http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html check here or in the frame data thread), no need to press anything. If your shield pops up, you're holding the shield button too long, no need to do that (you don't have to full pres the trigger to l cancel, and actually shouldn't do so (to keep your tech window open).
Auto canceling always occurs after a certain number of frames in the move have passed, so if you start your move early enough before you land it will autocancel.
Trial and error is a waste of time, if you can just ask people who know anyways... better use that time to try the things that can't be conveyed in a few words (e.g. where to dash dance
).Awesome, thanks Xyzz! Those answers are really helpful.
And I agree, but I read that some things should be done though trial and error in friendlies before asking here and I didn't want to agitate anyone.
Also, one more question which I forgot to add earlier:
- What are things you SHOULDN'T do when hanging on the edge as Sheik? I understand that all viable options are situational and dependent on your opponent's position (among other things), but I'd like to know what NOT to do, if there are such options. (For example, I almost never see Sheiks roll onto the stage or jump from the ledge (by pressing jump, I don't mean ledge hopping) and when I see them do it, they get punished).
And I agree, but I read that some things should be done though trial and error in friendlies before asking here and I didn't want to agitate anyone.
Also, one more question which I forgot to add earlier:
- What are things you SHOULDN'T do when hanging on the edge as Sheik? I understand that all viable options are situational and dependent on your opponent's position (among other things), but I'd like to know what NOT to do, if there are such options. (For example, I almost never see Sheiks roll onto the stage or jump from the ledge (by pressing jump, I don't mean ledge hopping) and when I see them do it, they get punished).
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Usually when people use the ledgejump, it's a technical mistake (often referred to as the so called "tournament winner", because it wins the tournament for the other guy :D). And it's probably the worst option ever. I don't see any reason to use that thing at all.
Ledgeroll would be okay, but can be entirely replaced by ledgedash if you can consistently do that with enough invincibility.
Neutral getup is a bit better, because it's really quick and generally a lot harder to punish than the roll (because it would force the other guy to venture into the space where you can hit him with fair but still regrab the ledge). Ledgedash is still superior, but well, the ledgestand is impossible to screw up... (:
I don't really like going on the stage with aerials either (unless it's a punish kind of thing, where they are in lag ). Sheik's aerial mobility is a bit low, so it's rather easy for the other guy to bait that out, move out of the range and then get a free super punish.
So well, I thikn Sheik does just fine with offensive (fairs into regab ledge) or defensive stalling (drop > rejump > ledgegrab / shino stall) into a ledgedash, with some ledgestand thrown in if the other guy is giving you enough respect to do it safely, and you aren't too confident in your ledgedashs on the current day (:
Ledgeroll would be okay, but can be entirely replaced by ledgedash if you can consistently do that with enough invincibility.
Neutral getup is a bit better, because it's really quick and generally a lot harder to punish than the roll (because it would force the other guy to venture into the space where you can hit him with fair but still regrab the ledge). Ledgedash is still superior, but well, the ledgestand is impossible to screw up... (:
I don't really like going on the stage with aerials either (unless it's a punish kind of thing, where they are in lag ). Sheik's aerial mobility is a bit low, so it's rather easy for the other guy to bait that out, move out of the range and then get a free super punish.
So well, I thikn Sheik does just fine with offensive (fairs into regab ledge) or defensive stalling (drop > rejump > ledgegrab / shino stall) into a ledgedash, with some ledgestand thrown in if the other guy is giving you enough respect to do it safely, and you aren't too confident in your ledgedashs on the current day (: