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Sheik Shield pressure info & more

Wiseman.

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
6
Location
Everywhere and nowhere.
Tested with AR on Dolphin. Some moves might be a little off, but likely only by very small margins.

-------------=Shield Pressure=-------------

Sheik's Out of shield options:
Jump:
1-3 startup

4 Airborne

Nair/Bair:

1-3 Jump startup

4-5 N/Bair Startup

6 N/Bair hits


Grab:

1-6 Grab startup

7 Grab hits


Roll:

1-3 Startup

4-19 Invincibility

20-31 Lag


Sidestep:

1 Startup
2-15 invincibility

16-22 Lag



Jab (first)
1

2 / 2 (hit)
3 / hitlag
4 / hitlag
5 / hitlag
6 / 3
7 / 4
8 / 5 stun ends

9 / 6
10 / 7
11 / 8
12 / 9
13 / 10 (IASA into second jab)
14 / 11
15 / 12
16 / 13
17 / 14
18 / 15
19 / 16 (IASA)
20 / 17


Jab (second)
1
2

3 / 3 (hit)
4 / hitlag
5 / hitlag
6 / hitlag
7 / 4
8 / 5 stun ends

9 / 6
10 / 7
11 / 8
12 / 9
13 / 10 (IASA into rapid jab)
14 / 11
15 / 12
16 / 13
17 / 14
18 / 15
19 / 16 (IASA)
20 / 17


Ftilt
1
2
3
4

5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends

15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18
23 / 19
24 / 20
25 / 21
26 / 22
27 / 23
28 / 24
29 / 25
30 / 26
31 / 27 (IASA)
32 / 28
33 / 29


Dtilt
1
2
3
4

5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends

15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18
23 / 19
24 / 20
25 / 21
26 / 22
27 / 23
28 / 24
29 / 25
30 / 26
31 / 27
32 / 28 (IASA)
33 / 29


Utilt
1
2
3
4

5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends

15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18

23 / 19 (hit)
24 / hitlag
25 / hitlag
26 / hitlag
27 / 20
28 / 21
29 / 22 stun ends

30 / 23
31 / 24
32 / 25
33 / 26 (IASA)
34 / 27
35 / 28
36 / 29
37 / 30
38 / 31
39 / 32
40 / 33


Needles (perfect height)
Comment: Using needles on a shield at close range is risky due to their slow startup,
but enables a means of shield pressure that often cannot be grabbed if properly timed.
Properly timed meaning that the needles only stay out for a maximum of a few frames prior to hitting the ground.
Very situational shield pressure as you might tell.


Needles to jab

Comment: This pressure is guaranteed as it keeps the enemy in shield stun for the entire time.
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 jab startup
16 jab hits
17 stun from needles ends


Needles to Ftilt
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Ftilt startup
16
17 stun from needles ends

18
19 Ftilt hits


Needles to Dsmash
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Dsmash startup
16
17 stun from needles ends

18
19 Dsmash hits


Needles to grab

Comment: I can see this becoming useful in the future.
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Grab startup
16
17 stun from needles ends

18
19
20
21 Grab hits


-------------=Needles (Neutral B) info=-------------

Sheik's Needles (Hurtbox duration): 140 frames

3 tests were made:
#1 145

#2 138

#3 139

The mean value is 140,666666..., which rounded down to nearest
multiple of 10 gives us a frame count of 140.


Conclusion: Sheik's Needles last as hurtboxes for 140 frames.


Sheik's Needles (Hitbox duration): 30 frames

3 tests were made:
#1 31

#2 30

#3 30

Mean value = 30,333333...; yet again rounded down to the nearest multiple of 10,
giving us 30 frames of hitbox duration.

Conclusion: The Needles have a hitbox duration of 30 frames
as long as they don't connect with the ground, in which case they immediately disappear.
 

Kira-

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
2,859
Location
Socal
So if you do the full jab combo on their shield they can't shield grab it?
 

Witchblade

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
55
Location
Utrecht/Gorinchem
I've never been shieldgrabbed out of jabbing on a shield.

I get CCed -> *****.

I sometimes do it when I mess up and I know it comes unexpectedly though.
 

BO/\K

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Seattle, WA
Needle->grab on shield is susceptible to a buffered spotdodge/roll, right? And unless I'm mistaken, a 22-frame spotdodger can act before the Sheik's grab animation is over.

Outside of those options though it seems pretty amazing on a frame-level at least. I've always just assumed that needle->grab wasn't safe on shield so I never thought to follow up if my needles hit a shield. To get this level of frame perfection with it, I'm guessing it requires a bit of positional setup.
 
Last edited:

Awstintacious

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
123
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Have you done any tests on how needles hitting someone into moves/grab works. I've tested a little on Jiggs with her SDIing/CCing, and it was inconclusive because it worked some of the time and others I get crouch rested.
 

hectohertz

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
800
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Have you done any tests on how needles hitting someone into moves/grab works. I've tested a little on Jiggs with her SDIing/CCing, and it was inconclusive because it worked some of the time and others I get crouch rested.
ive heard a couple things about needle-->grab on crouching jiggs. i believe it depends where in the cycle of needles you are when you hit the ground. iirc, a needle needs to hit right as you hit the ground
 

Awstintacious

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
123
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Also has anyone done testing on whether there is variance in where needles travel when airborne (like they are on the ground-- three heights). I know I was going to test some stuff about where aerial needles land and leave hurtboxes
 
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