Sheik Shield pressure info & more

[Wiseman.]

Tested with AR on Dolphin. Some moves might be a little off, but likely only by very small margins.

-------------=Shield Pressure=-------------
Sheik's Out of shield options:
Jump:
1-3 startup
4 Airborne

Nair/Bair:
1-3 Jump startup
4-5 N/Bair Startup
6 N/Bair hits

Grab:
1-6 Grab startup
7 Grab hits

Roll:
1-3 Startup
4-19 Invincibility
20-31 Lag

Sidestep:
1 Startup
2-15 invincibility
16-22 Lag



Jab (first)
1
2 / 2 (hit)
3 / hitlag
4 / hitlag
5 / hitlag
6 / 3
7 / 4
8 / 5 stun ends
9 / 6
10 / 7
11 / 8
12 / 9
13 / 10 (IASA into second jab)
14 / 11
15 / 12
16 / 13
17 / 14
18 / 15
19 / 16 (IASA)
20 / 17

Jab (second)
1
2
3 / 3 (hit)
4 / hitlag
5 / hitlag
6 / hitlag
7 / 4
8 / 5 stun ends
9 / 6
10 / 7
11 / 8
12 / 9
13 / 10 (IASA into rapid jab)
14 / 11
15 / 12
16 / 13
17 / 14
18 / 15
19 / 16 (IASA)
20 / 17

Ftilt
1
2
3
4
5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends
15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18
23 / 19
24 / 20
25 / 21
26 / 22
27 / 23
28 / 24
29 / 25
30 / 26
31 / 27 (IASA)
32 / 28
33 / 29

Dtilt
1
2
3
4
5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends
15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18
23 / 19
24 / 20
25 / 21
26 / 22
27 / 23
28 / 24
29 / 25
30 / 26
31 / 27
32 / 28 (IASA)
33 / 29

Utilt
1
2
3
4
5 / 5 (hit)
6 / hitlag
7 / hitlag
8 / hitlag
9 / hitlag
10 / 6
11 / 7
12 / 8
13 / 9
14 / 10 stun ends
15 / 11
16 / 12
17 / 13
18 / 14
19 / 15
20 / 16
21 / 17
22 / 18
23 / 19 (hit)
24 / hitlag
25 / hitlag
26 / hitlag
27 / 20
28 / 21
29 / 22 stun ends
30 / 23
31 / 24
32 / 25
33 / 26 (IASA)
34 / 27
35 / 28
36 / 29
37 / 30
38 / 31
39 / 32
40 / 33

Needles (perfect height)
Comment: Using needles on a shield at close range is risky due to their slow startup,
but enables a means of shield pressure that often cannot be grabbed if properly timed.
Properly timed meaning that the needles only stay out for a maximum of a few frames prior to hitting the ground.
Very situational shield pressure as you might tell.

Needles to jab
Comment: This pressure is guaranteed as it keeps the enemy in shield stun for the entire time.
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 jab startup
16 jab hits
17 stun from needles ends

Needles to Ftilt
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Ftilt startup
16
17 stun from needles ends
18
19 Ftilt hits

Needles to Dsmash
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Dsmash startup
16
17 stun from needles ends
18
19 Dsmash hits

Needles to grab
Comment: I can see this becoming useful in the future.
1 needles startup
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 needles hit
12 landlag
13 landlag
14 landlag
15 Grab startup
16
17 stun from needles ends
18
19
20
21 Grab hits


-------------=Needles (Neutral B) info=-------------
Sheik's Needles (Hurtbox duration): 140 frames
3 tests were made:
#1 145

#2 138

#3 139

The mean value is 140,666666..., which rounded down to nearest
multiple of 10 gives us a frame count of 140.

Conclusion: Sheik's Needles last as hurtboxes for 140 frames.

Sheik's Needles (Hitbox duration): 30 frames
3 tests were made:
#1 31

#2 30

#3 30

Mean value = 30,333333...; yet again rounded down to the nearest multiple of 10,
giving us 30 frames of hitbox duration.

Conclusion: The Needles have a hitbox duration of 30 frames
as long as they don't connect with the ground, in which case they immediately disappear.

 

[Witchblade]

Great first post.

'needle to grab' is not something that could become useful in the future though, lol. It is a standard move combination.

 

[Kira-]

So if you do the full jab combo on their shield they can't shield grab it?

 

[Witchblade]

I've never been shieldgrabbed out of jabbing on a shield.

I get CCed -> *****.

I sometimes do it when I mess up and I know it comes unexpectedly though.

 

[hectohertz]

this post is amazing

 

[BO/\K]

Needle->grab on shield is susceptible to a buffered spotdodge/roll, right? And unless I'm mistaken, a 22-frame spotdodger can act before the Sheik's grab animation is over.

Outside of those options though it seems pretty amazing on a frame-level at least. I've always just assumed that needle->grab wasn't safe on shield so I never thought to follow up if my needles hit a shield. To get this level of frame perfection with it, I'm guessing it requires a bit of positional setup.

 

[Drephen]

I didn't read any of it, but good job on making it

 

[Awstintacious]

Have you done any tests on how needles hitting someone into moves/grab works. I've tested a little on Jiggs with her SDIing/CCing, and it was inconclusive because it worked some of the time and others I get crouch rested.

 

[hectohertz]

Have you done any tests on how needles hitting someone into moves/grab works. I've tested a little on Jiggs with her SDIing/CCing, and it was inconclusive because it worked some of the time and others I get crouch rested.

ive heard a couple things about needle-->grab on crouching jiggs. i believe it depends where in the cycle of needles you are when you hit the ground. iirc, a needle needs to hit right as you hit the ground

 

[Awstintacious]

Also has anyone done testing on whether there is variance in where needles travel when airborne (like they are on the ground-- three heights). I know I was going to test some stuff about where aerial needles land and leave hurtboxes