Sheik patch 1.1.0 changes - CONFIRMED

[ArikadoSD]

Ok so there was no thread for it so I took the initiative instead of scattering infos throughout different threads.

So far what we kinda agree on as Sheik mains is the following:
- Fair hitbox/damage nerf; the sourspot is somehow more prominent OR it does 0.5% less damage, uncertain yet.
- Needle fidgeting/INC/C-bounce/vanish gliding are all still intact

Keep in mind nothing is official until data miners crunch the numbers of the new patch. All what's in this thread is what Sheik mains mostly agree on.

EDIT:

Data miners came through (thank Dantarion)

Sheik's fair confirmed ONLY change.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/sheik.html

Can't make sense of most of it but red part is pre-patch, green is post-patch. You can see in red part fair was dmg = 4.8/5.5 and now its 4.3/5.0, not sure if there were frame changes etc

 

[Cyn]

From what I've seen (yet to try it out yet) bouncing fish received a buff?

 

[smashPony]

From what I've seen (yet to try it out yet) bouncing fish received a buff?

how so?

 

[Bujuhh]

From what I've seen (yet to try it out yet) bouncing fish received a buff?

Bouncing fish seems the same to me. If it did receive any changes, they are negligible

 

[New_Dumal]

If they take more damage from us, we will need to make 12 hit combo for 12% ...

 

[ArikadoSD]

Bouncing fish seems the same to me as well.

Also the dthrow nerf seems to be disproved, the placebo is hard with this one but I honestly can't tell for sure.. but after comparing unpatched version (3ds) with patched (wiiu) I don't think there's a difference.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

IDK bouncing fish seems to send opponent farther when sheik have rage

 

[_Tree]

If the only major nerf was to Sheik's F-air then they're actually doing something right with this patch.

 

[tronfox64]

Dthrow seems the same to me. Is Fair confirmed to be changed? I can't tell lol.

 

[New_Dumal]

I still think the landing lag in Fair was not needed.
The damage... okay.

 

[ShinRamen]

sheik's d throw still leads to 50/50 kill set up at the same percents it did before the patch in the ditto, and d throw combos seem to be the same in general. f throw triple fair regrab f throw bf does 38% most of the time now, so yeah, fair dmg nerf.

 

[Jaxas]

Fair confirmed to be the only change to Sheik this patch.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/sheik.html
From @Dantarion 's Diff dump

 

[ArikadoSD]

Data miners came through (thank Dantarion)

Sheik's fair confirmed ONLY change.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/sheik.html

Can't make sense of most of it but red part is pre-patch, green is post-patch. You can see in red part fair was dmg = 4.8/5.5 and now its 4.3/5.0, not sure if there were frame changes etc

edit: goddammit ninja'd =( what a true sheik main @ Jaxas

 

[-dMT-]

Looks like the sweet and sour spots on fair are swapped, both doing .5 less damage than before but the KBG increased on both.

 

[verbatim]

Looking at the stuff people haven't already mentioned.

They switched the id's for the two different hits of fair around. I have no idea why they'd do that.

KBG goes from 125 --> 132. Assuming that KGB stands for knock back growth, I'd assume that this means that it'll get harder to keep people in fair strings at higher percentages. I need to record a bunch of replays before I update so if someone could try doing fair strings on both versions (1.0.9 and 1.10) to someone in training mode at 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50% that'd be awesome.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Looks like the sweet and sour spots on fair are swapped, both doing .5 less damage than before but the KBG increased on both.

Mmmm... sweet and sour....


Edit: I'll try to be relevant.
Awesome! I'm fine with Fair receiving a slight nerf. It doesn't really affect her feel as a character and may create new combos.

 

[Skydra]

Can anyone test whether all the needle techs made it through?

Edit: I say this because I'm having trouble fidgeting (on 3DS) but I might just be messing up.

Edit 2: I've managed to do it at least once with all my specials, but I'm way less consistent and I don't know if its just me.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can anyone test whether all the needle techs made it through?

Edit: I say this because I'm having trouble fidgeting (on 3DS) but I might just be messing up.

Yes pretty sure they all made it through

 

[Skydra]

Yes pretty sure they all made it through

Yeah, I can fidget into bfish ok now, I just needed to warm up. I was never good at the other techs, but grounded b-reverse was the same. If you've tested instant needle canceling and c-bouncing it looks like Sheik made it through this patch basically the same, other than the fair nerf.

 

[Project Crysis]

So our warrior only got a fair nerf seems legit it also seems like fair into bouncing fish can connect earlier too. I'll except this trade Sakurai also where's is the sour spot on fair?

 

[verbatim]

Can't test it yet but I think that it'll be situationally harder to string fair strings on characters somewhere in the 20-50% range. Nothing major, but it may throw off someone that's committed character specific percents to heart?

 

[judiciousclown]

So our warrior only got a fair nerf seems legit it also seems like fair into bouncing fish can connect earlier too. I'll except this trade Sakurai also where's is the sour spot on fair?

sweet spot seems to be at the tip, sour spot closer to sheik

 

[Uraniulvl]

Sorry if this has been answered. Was landing lag added and if so how much. Also another important question if landing lag was changed was her autocancel frame changed. It was 11 for fair pre patch.

 

[Illuminose]

Wait.

They decreased forward air damage? And didn't mess with the autocancel?

lol.

 

[Kirbyguy[EVA01]]

Not sure how to feel about this nerf. At least it isn't that bad since i was scared that sheik was going to get nerfed really hard.

 

[Project Crysis]

Sorry if this has been answered. Was landing lag added and if so how much. Also another important question if landing lag was changed was her autocancel frame changed. It was 11 for fair pre patch.

I believe it's 2 frames add or something like that

 

[Illuminose]

This isn't even a bad nerf, since when do you land with end lag when you have an 11 frame autocancel window. Everything basically works the same.

Can someone test needle end lag/kbg? I won't have access to my Wii U until Tuesday.

 

[Spark31]

Have we confirmed whether fair->jab still frame cancels on shield?

 

[W.A.C.]

So how will this likely affect Shiek in the future? Will she be able to kill with fair earlier? I do not use this character, but she's one of the most popular characters in the game, so I figured it was worth asking.

 

[vypex]

I think the trajectory of bouncing fish was changed after I connect or connect against shield I don't think I can travel as far back as I used to be able to just what I think has changed someone else want to test this out to verify

 

[Euklyd]

Looking at the stuff people haven't already mentioned.

They switched the id's for the two different hits of fair around. I have no idea why they'd do that.

KBG goes from 125 --> 132. Assuming that KGB stands for knock back growth, I'd assume that this means that it'll get harder to keep people in fair strings at higher percentages. I need to record a bunch of replays before I update so if someone could try doing fair strings on both versions (1.0.9 and 1.10) to someone in training mode at 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50% that'd be awesome.

If I had to guess, it would be that they swapped which hitbox has priority over the other. But that's really just a complete shot in the dark.
Also remember that knockback scales with the damage that the move deals, so it's possible that the changes actually cause there to be less knockback at higher percents due to fair dealing less damage.

I ran some numbers on knockback but they don't make any sense; it looks like (according to the Brawl formula, at least, which afaik is accurate) Sheik's fair knockback changed only about 1% either way (depending on opponent's %; at low% it's a bit higher, at high% it's lower), but that doesn't seem right at all.
Could somebody else do their own calculations and confirm/deconfirm this?

Pastebin with my numbers.

Also, does anyone know where in the data one would find the landing lag changes?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I really don't think her Fair endlag was changed at all, I can still just continuously use Fair constantly without even noticing any difference.

 

[J0A0B]

I don't really understand the issue with Sheik's F-air change.

I mean I know the damage reduction is a significant change, that's a given. But does the additional landing lag really count as a major nerf? If she is able to continue her auto-cancelling and seemingly flawless F-air looped combos, then does the landing lag NOT change her overall strategy?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Doesnt the 11 in the data dump signify the landing frames? So it went up by one frame correct?

Also i know this is nitpicking but could you also stop saying auto cancel. It's just blatantly incorrect. Her fair does not auto cancel. Very few moves in this game AC besides Zairs.

 

[Putuk]

When will you lot finally receive the nerfs you deserve??

Us honorable Dedede mains suffer so much at your hands.
Your stupid fAir chop hands.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Doesnt the 11 in the data dump signify the landing frames? So it went up by one frame correct?

Also i know this is nitpicking but could you also stop saying auto cancel. It's just blatantly incorrect. Her fair does not auto cancel. Very few moves in this game AC besides Zairs.

No her Fair does auto-cancel, you can immediately shield as soon as her fair ends, this was establish for quite some time @_@

Edit: Auto-canceling is the act of landing during the beginning or ending frames of an aerial attack, thereby circumventing the landing lag that would have occurred had the character instead landed during the middle of that attack's animation.

Auto-canceling an attack produces no more landing lag than a regular landing from an ordinary jump (of which the landing lag tends to be around 4-6 frames, a very short amount of time), whereas landing during the middle of an aerial attack almost always results in a significant delay before the character can act (raise a shield, jump, dodge, etc.) again.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You didnt cancel anything. The move finished its animation.

Its not your fault. It's a giant misnomer this entire community is into just because they always want to name every single game function, rule, or phenomenon.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Like all non-Sheik players, I found Sheik's treatment in this patch majorly disappointing. Minus points to Sakurai. With all the buffs he's given to the low tiers(though he's kidding himself if he thinks that's all they need), you'd have figured he'd have gone the full 9 yards and done something serious about Sheik.

Oh well. Have fun, ninjas.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You want characters to get nerf bombed?

Yo as a fellow new jerseyian I renounce you my dude. lolol

 

[jam1garner]

When will you lot finally receive the nerfs you deserve??

Us honorable Dedede mains suffer so much at your hands.
Your stupid fAir chop hands.

Sheik isn't exactly "OP" or easy to pick up. Yes I think she is no doubt the best, but OP might be a stretch. To be honest, if needle damage is nerfed quite a bit next patch, sheik will be nerfed enough, as I don't believe sheik is too good in any way other than having range and rush down abilities (maybe her recovery too, but all Smash 4 recoveries are insane. But lower tiers have been getting a quite a few buffs recently, so I hope that DeDeDe gets buffed for you. I mean, look at Robin, he actually looks decent now, and Ike is on his way. May sakurai bring buffs your way!