Simikins
Nerfed
Sheik Down Throw Stage Spike
When Sheik is standing at the ledge of Battlefield and has her back to it, if she does a down throw on certain characters it will stage spike.
This is an extension of Sheik’s ‘soft’ down throw (video on that coming soon). A few characters are thrown under the ledge enough that they are thrown against it and stage spiked. This is both percentage dependant and DI dependant, and the side of the stage does not matter.
The characters this works on are:
Zero Suit Samus
Bayonetta
Bowser Jr. (All costumes)
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Ganondorf
Depending on DI, the opponent will either be stage spiked diagonally down
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diagonally up
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or in regular down throw direction.
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Against Kirby and Ganondorf it will never send diagonally down, only diagonally up or regular.
After finding which characters it worked on I tested these characters with each DI angle using the Gamecube Controller notches, and at 50% intervals. The testing was done on the right side of battlefield.
No = Regular Down Throw
Yes = Stage spiked diagonally downwards
Weird = Stage spiked diagonally upwards (don’t ask why I used ‘weird’)
While this technique works best by far on Battlefield of the legal stages, there are some instances where it can work on other stages (I know I just said Battlefield at the top, but you’ll see why).
On these stages I only tested with DI towards the stage.
Stage/Character | 0% | 50% | 100% | 150% | 200% | 300%
Final Destination | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat No Tilt | - | - | - | - | - -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat Down Tilt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird | weird (0-55) | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-90) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat Up Tilt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | splat (left side) 0-5 | no | no | no | no | no
Town & City | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Smashville | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird | weird | weird | weird (0-170) | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | splat (left side) 0-5 | no | no | no | no | no
Duck Hunt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Dreamland | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Miiverse | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | weird
Zero Suit Samus | yes | yes | yes | weird | weird | weird
Bayonetta | weird | yes | yes | yes | weird | weird
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | weird | weird | weird | weird | weird | no
Jigglypuff | yes | yes | weird | weird | weird | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Strangely, Bayonetta and Ganondorf are the only two characters that can be staged spiked from down throw on every legal stage.
Here are the stages in order of how good they are for down throw stage spike:
There is also another variation, against Captain Falcon only.
On the left side of Battlefield, Smashville, and Lylat while it is tilting upwards, at 0-5% a down throw with DI towards the stage will cause falcon to ‘splat’ directly onto the stage. This is the only situation where the side of the stage matters, and I don’t know why ;~;
Combos and stuff
This section is WIP, just wanted to get the important data out. Will be updated.
Stage Spike Diagonally Downwards
This can surprise the opponent, and outright kill at pretty early percentages for sheik.
Percentages where characters will not be able to recover on battlefield:
ZSS -
Bayonetta -
Bowser Jr. -
Jigglypuff -
Even if this doesn’t kill, it puts the opponent in a VERY BAD spot and can set up for a gimp. You can drop down with nair, try to footstool jumps, or poke with aerial needles.
Stage Spike Diagonally Upwards
While at first this seems like it doesn’t do much other than send the opponent slightly offstage, this is pretty good for combos.
From this you can get a guaranteed back air or Bouncing Fish. The window for this combo is huge (will have character specific percentages here soon). This is best at very high percentages, where these will combo and kill.
Both of these had the opponent spamming airdodge and DI-ing for the stage spike (for simplicity’s sake both of these GIFs have downward DI, but see the table at the start of the thread for all DI angles).
Captain Falcon Splat
The only things Sheik can get guaranteed from a missed tech are jab, dtilt, and ftilt.
The best thing to do is ftilt > jab.
Counterplay
There are two ways to avoid the down throw stage spike. The first is teching, and the second is DI.
Teching
As this is a stage spike from a throw, this is always techable. It’s very unlikely anyone who doesn’t play Sheik will bother to learn about this and learn to tech, but if they do tech they have frame advantage.Teching and getting back to a safe position is good, but with practice you can turn the situation into one advantageous for you (as the one being down thrown).
From a tech, all characters down throw stage spike works on are able to punish Sheik for doing the down throw. The timing of the tech is different depending on weight (it took me so long to get the jiggs and mewtwo GIFs because of how many times I messed up the tech).
Some characters can even convert this into a kill on Sheik.
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Tech in place immediate Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place UpB
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Walljump tech Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
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Tech in place Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
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Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place jump Down Air
Tech in place jump rest?
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Tech in place Back Air
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Tech in place UpB
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Tech in place Up Air
All of these followups had sheik holding shield after down throw, to show these are 100% guaranteed. I tested these very quickly. There will be many many other options far better than what I’ve shown, I just showed these as examples of what can be done.
DI
If you go back to the table at the beginning of this thread, you will see over half of DI angles avoid the stage spike completely. The safest and most common angle being DI away from the stage. No matter what the situation, DI away will never be stage spiked.
This may seem like it completely breaks down throw stage spike, BUT, as the Sheik you know that if they don’t get stage spiked they will be DI-ing away from the stage, which will send them directly upwards. Because you’re at the ledge, even when it doesn’t stage spike, you will get the soft down throw, and so you will be able to follow up with upair very easily.
As the player getting stage spiked, you basically have to take a gamble. DI-ing away from the stage is low risk as you will never be stage spiked, but if the Sheik player is aware then you’re likely to still be hit by upair, and potentially killed.
Going for the tech is risky as if you mistime it you’ll get stage spiked and die, but if you get it you can punish Sheik.
DI-ing away is Low Risk Low Reward
Teching is High Risk High Reward
I hope this thread is helpful and taught you something. Any feedback is appreciated as this is my first thread in a long while ;~;
Also my first time making GIFs, hence why some have a random extra frame at the end
- Simikins
When Sheik is standing at the ledge of Battlefield and has her back to it, if she does a down throw on certain characters it will stage spike.
This is an extension of Sheik’s ‘soft’ down throw (video on that coming soon). A few characters are thrown under the ledge enough that they are thrown against it and stage spiked. This is both percentage dependant and DI dependant, and the side of the stage does not matter.
The characters this works on are:
Zero Suit Samus Bayonetta Bowser Jr. (All costumes) Mewtwo Jigglypuff Kirby GanondorfDepending on DI, the opponent will either be stage spiked diagonally down
After finding which characters it worked on I tested these characters with each DI angle using the Gamecube Controller notches, and at 50% intervals. The testing was done on the right side of battlefield.
No = Regular Down Throw
Yes = Stage spiked diagonally downwards
Weird = Stage spiked diagonally upwards (don’t ask why I used ‘weird’)
As can be seen from the data, this works with several DI angles, but generally DI towards the stage is best for this to work. This makes sense as with soft downthrow the opponent is launched from slightly under the stage, and DI towards the stage sends them into the ledge, where away DI sends them past it.Sheik Down Throw Battlefield Stage Spike
Character/DI | 0% | 50% | 100% | 150% | 200% | 300%
While this technique works best by far on Battlefield of the legal stages, there are some instances where it can work on other stages (I know I just said Battlefield at the top, but you’ll see why).
On these stages I only tested with DI towards the stage.
Final Destination | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat No Tilt | - | - | - | - | - -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat Down Tilt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird | weird (0-55) | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-90) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Lylat Up Tilt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | splat (left side) 0-5 | no | no | no | no | no
Town & City | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Smashville | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird | weird | weird | weird (0-170) | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | splat (left side) 0-5 | no | no | no | no | no
Duck Hunt | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Dreamland | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | no | no | no | no | no | no
Zero Suit Samus | no | no | no | no | no | no
Bayonetta | weird (0-45) | no | no | no | no | no
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | no | no | no | no | no | no
Jigglypuff | no | no | no | no | no | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Miiverse | - | - | - | - | - | -
Bowser Jr. | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | weird
Zero Suit Samus | yes | yes | yes | weird | weird | weird
Bayonetta | weird | yes | yes | yes | weird | weird
Ganondorf | weird | weird (0-75) | no | no | no | no
Kirby | weird | weird | weird | weird | weird | no
Jigglypuff | yes | yes | weird | weird | weird | no
Mewtwo | no | no | no | no | no | no
Captain Falcon | no | no | no | no | no | no
Here are the stages in order of how good they are for down throw stage spike:
FD, T&C, Dreamland and Duckhunt
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45%
Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
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Yep, it works exactly the same on all four of these stages.
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45% Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
Yep, it works exactly the same on all four of these stages.
Smashville
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-170%
Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
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Weirdly, Ganondorf is the same on this stage as the previous four, but Bayonetta is way better. I always thought Smashville and Town & City ledges were exactly the same. Guess not.
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-170% Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
Weirdly, Ganondorf is the same on this stage as the previous four, but Bayonetta is way better. I always thought Smashville and Town & City ledges were exactly the same. Guess not.
Lylat Cruise
This is the stage I find the most interesting, as the tilt of the stage affects it.
No Tilt
Exactly the same as the first four stages mentioned.
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45%
Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
Tilted Down
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-55%
Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-90%
Slightly better on both. Strange.
Tilted Up
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45%, and stage spiked diagonally downwards from 46-300%+
Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
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Works ridiculously well on Bayonetta when tilted upwards. Otherwise it’s the same
This is the stage I find the most interesting, as the tilt of the stage affects it.
No Tilt
Exactly the same as the first four stages mentioned.
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45% Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%Tilted Down
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-55% Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-90%Slightly better on both. Strange.
Tilted Up
Bayonetta will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-45%, and stage spiked diagonally downwards from 46-300%+ Ganondorf will be stage spiked diagonally upwards from 0-75%
Works ridiculously well on Bayonetta when tilted upwards. Otherwise it’s the same
Miiverse
Down throw stage spike works incredibly well on Miiverse. In some cases better than Battlefield.
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SHAME IT’S NOT LEGAL AHHHHHH
Bothered to test on it because I know in some regions replacing BF with Miiverse is being discussed.
Down throw stage spike works incredibly well on Miiverse. In some cases better than Battlefield.
SHAME IT’S NOT LEGAL AHHHHHH
Bothered to test on it because I know in some regions replacing BF with Miiverse is being discussed.
There is also another variation, against Captain Falcon only.
On the left side of Battlefield, Smashville, and Lylat while it is tilting upwards, at 0-5% a down throw with DI towards the stage will cause falcon to ‘splat’ directly onto the stage. This is the only situation where the side of the stage matters, and I don’t know why ;~;
Combos and stuff
This section is WIP, just wanted to get the important data out. Will be updated.
Stage Spike Diagonally Downwards
This can surprise the opponent, and outright kill at pretty early percentages for sheik.
Percentages where characters will not be able to recover on battlefield:
ZSS -
Bayonetta -
Bowser Jr. -
Jigglypuff -
Even if this doesn’t kill, it puts the opponent in a VERY BAD spot and can set up for a gimp. You can drop down with nair, try to footstool jumps, or poke with aerial needles.
Stage Spike Diagonally Upwards
While at first this seems like it doesn’t do much other than send the opponent slightly offstage, this is pretty good for combos.
From this you can get a guaranteed back air or Bouncing Fish. The window for this combo is huge (will have character specific percentages here soon). This is best at very high percentages, where these will combo and kill.
Both of these had the opponent spamming airdodge and DI-ing for the stage spike (for simplicity’s sake both of these GIFs have downward DI, but see the table at the start of the thread for all DI angles).
Captain Falcon Splat
The only things Sheik can get guaranteed from a missed tech are jab, dtilt, and ftilt.
The best thing to do is ftilt > jab.
Counterplay
There are two ways to avoid the down throw stage spike. The first is teching, and the second is DI.
Teching
As this is a stage spike from a throw, this is always techable. It’s very unlikely anyone who doesn’t play Sheik will bother to learn about this and learn to tech, but if they do tech they have frame advantage.Teching and getting back to a safe position is good, but with practice you can turn the situation into one advantageous for you (as the one being down thrown).
From a tech, all characters down throw stage spike works on are able to punish Sheik for doing the down throw. The timing of the tech is different depending on weight (it took me so long to get the jiggs and mewtwo GIFs because of how many times I messed up the tech).
Some characters can even convert this into a kill on Sheik.
Tech in place immediate Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place UpB
Walljump tech Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place Back Air
Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place Up Air
Tech in place jump Down Air
Tech in place jump rest?
Tech in place Back Air
Tech in place UpB
Tech in place Up Air
All of these followups had sheik holding shield after down throw, to show these are 100% guaranteed. I tested these very quickly. There will be many many other options far better than what I’ve shown, I just showed these as examples of what can be done.
DI
If you go back to the table at the beginning of this thread, you will see over half of DI angles avoid the stage spike completely. The safest and most common angle being DI away from the stage. No matter what the situation, DI away will never be stage spiked.
This may seem like it completely breaks down throw stage spike, BUT, as the Sheik you know that if they don’t get stage spiked they will be DI-ing away from the stage, which will send them directly upwards. Because you’re at the ledge, even when it doesn’t stage spike, you will get the soft down throw, and so you will be able to follow up with upair very easily.
As the player getting stage spiked, you basically have to take a gamble. DI-ing away from the stage is low risk as you will never be stage spiked, but if the Sheik player is aware then you’re likely to still be hit by upair, and potentially killed.
Going for the tech is risky as if you mistime it you’ll get stage spiked and die, but if you get it you can punish Sheik.
DI-ing away is Low Risk Low Reward
Teching is High Risk High Reward
I hope this thread is helpful and taught you something. Any feedback is appreciated as this is my first thread in a long while ;~;
Also my first time making GIFs, hence why some have a random extra frame at the end
- Simikins
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