Share your setups!

[Zaprong]

Hi!

I'm the guy who made "The dirty bomb" more known between Samus players (Though I did not name it).

I was thinking, we should share setups we like to do with Samus to put our opponent in a really bad position.

At mid percentages, you can forward throw someone of the stage and then charge shot it.

Is it a true combo? No, but if they airdodge, it forces the opponent to be predictable with a 50/50 chance depending on where they use their second jump since they recover from below.

This makes characters like Cpt. Falcon and Roy much more easier to kill with a downair, because on how predictable their recoveries are.

What are some good setups you like to do?

 

[KayJay]

- B-/F-throw offstage, chase via RAR B-Airs. If they airdodged them all then they will reach the ledge -> tether grab ledge trump into turnaround charge shot or B-Air. That's how I deal with characters recoverys like Sheik's or Ike's.

Spoiler

- When they are offstage, jump above the ledge, drop a bomb, retreat and immediately input SH FF D-Air. If they do a regular get up then the bomb knockbacks them into the D-Air. If they roll then they will be directly hit by D-Air.
After D-Air hitconfirm, B-Air finishes them.

- Against offstage floatys like Luigi, Homing Missile as a frametrap for a killconfirmed D-Air followup is simple yet still effective.

- If your opponent tends to DI away from Samus's D-Throw you can try a method I would call a Super Missile frametrap, it's simple yet very effective:

Spoiler

It can force the opponent to use his second jump (if he airdodges to the ground, he will eat the missile) so you have an advantage.

- My classic, when they hang on the ledge surprise them by short hopping out of the stage and punish their regular & roll get up with a turnaround charge shot.

 

[Zylach]

Morph ball bomb into fully charged CS if they opponent blocks the bomb. It's usually a shield break. Very rare but very satisfying.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Totally random FJ up-air followed by a retreating FF CS. I have no idea why this fakeout works, against good players no less. I've even had other Samus' pull it off on me. For some reason the motion makes the opponent either think you're an idiot, you've missed an input and you're wide open, or I don't really know. I simply realize this pattern has netted me tons of neutral game kills. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KGQEYaUt4#t=50
It seems ******** but seriously, this works like magic. Try it.

Fast fallers circa 0% who consistently DI harsh away and are hard to hit with grab->dash->up-air (ZSS in particular) forward throw can actually force a tech. Forward throw -> tech chase dash attack combo.

Cross up their shield with dash attack -> spot-dodge -> up-tilt. This is my latest thing. Something close to 100% of the decent players will pivot and grab a cross up dash attack and it's a decent up-tilt setup.

 

[Afro Smash]

I'll post some unorthodox things/strings i seem to get often

D throw > Fair > Dash Up Smash
Uncharged shot > uncharged shot > dash attack
Up Tilt whiff > immediate up tilt

Also Charge Shot shield damage can leave taller characters susceptible to shield poking with SH Bair and Up Smash

 

[Xygonn]

I do the same sort of edge guard as @ KayJay with bomb, but I just retreat and then start charging an fsmash. Sometimes you can even punish a jump getup if you angle it up and they are being greedy.

Oldy but a goody: using bomb to punish snap back then comboing into utilt or fsmash angled down. In combination with this, using bomb in combination with going off stage to punish low recoveries. You limit their recovery options and can punish the delay below the bomb.

Full jump fair to retreating nair, weak hit of zair, or CS. This is not unlike the full jump uair to CS that @ DungeonMaster was talking about.

My desperation kill setup if I'm well behind and they are at around 75%, I'll up throw, jump, see if it is an air dodge, if so wait then up b. If they jump again, I'll follow, if they air dodge wait then up b. Just being patient on a high percent up throw for an upb kill. I know it's fishing, but eh.

 

[MegaRiff]

The FJ U-Air to FF CS is standard for me, like @ DungeonMaster pointed out. It's really good bait.

Bomb to CS when falling back to stage works wonders as well. Opponents tend to think Samus is vulnerable after dropping a bomb, but then are greeted with a CS. I also do this as a juke. SH to bomb (they usually chase) land behind them and CS. Both the bomb and the CS tend to land. So it's a quick 30%

Missle to CS on falling opponents. They tend to airdodge the missile, then get hit with the CS.

At low percents: D-Throw to fair to CS. You gotta wait a little on the CS. OR just D-throw to CS, if you know they are going to airdodge. Good as a mixup.

And a doozie: Against little mac trying to recover high, a simple bair... not RAR. When they counter, they will change directions and fall to their doom.

We should all contribute into making a video of all these set ups. If we can each get some footage of said set-ups. And have someone compile it. Would be awesome.

 

[JAZZ_]

I'm not sure this classifies as a set up but for rushdown characters as well as anyone charging in I lay bombs in front of me (or all over the spot Im standing) and use the bomb ball animation to slide behind, this has led to some nice extra damage on several things.

• Grabing the opponent so the bomb blows up while theyre being pummeled
• Utilt bomb explodes keeping the opponent down and stunned for a grab or Fsmash
• bomb explodes as fsmash hits
• etc.

It seems to me the bombs fluster a lot of people, and I tend to get them combo'd into or synchronized into other moves for added damage.
I dont know, Im still a beginner to Samus so this could all be a fluke or unimportant, but its unique to me given that I utilize my bombs on stage alot.
and who knows, I may need to immediately stop doing this. I look to you all for guidance in these matters.

 

[RoachCake]

Jab 1 > CS
At about 100-130% I like to start going for this, it's becoming one of my favorite kill setups.
After Jab, a lot of people like to buffer stuff (Especially the good players), Attacks and Spot dodges are hit by CS every time, Rolls usually get hit, sometimes they can get their shield up just in time. If they Shield, you'll either hit their Shield or catch them in shield drop animation.
After that, until about 180%, Jab will setup a tech chase instead, I have yet to see anyone tech it so I'm just going to say it's a Free CS.

Sour spot D-air > F-air/CS offstage is a pretty fun way to style on your opponents.

Super Missile > CS
Opponent Jumps over Missile.
Gets hit by CS instead.

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ MegaRiff I really like that b-air to gimp mac's offstage counter recovery attempt by making him counter in the wrong direction. That's hilariously dirty, never thought of that before. Should be added into the matchup 2.0 thread.

 

[Xygonn]

@ MegaRiff I really like that b-air to gimp mac's offstage counter recovery attempt by making him counter in the wrong direction. That's hilariously dirty, never thought of that before. Should be added into the matchup 2.0 thread.

Works with the back hit of nair too, with less threat to you. Maybe the only good use of it?

 

[E.Lopez]

This thread is full of Samus goodness, lots of stuff I wouldn't have thought to try out! I'm so far behind the learning curve.

Cross up their shield with dash attack -> spot-dodge -> up-tilt. This is my latest thing. Something close to 100% of the decent players will pivot and grab a cross up dash attack and it's a decent up-tilt setup.

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding how this works, if you don't mind clarifying. Cross up their shield with dash attack means you dash attacked while they were shielding and you are now on the other side of the opponent. You're saying that since the opponent will likely go for the pivot grab, you spot dodge their grab and hit with u-tilt? You have to pivot then u-tilt since you're facing away from them, right?

Also, I'm a little confused about the Little Mac strategy provided by @ MegaRiff . OK, so if Little Mac is recovering high, let's say on the left side of the stage, one thing we can do is fall off the stage to the left so we're going under him, then jump and bair his left side before he makes it over the ground, anticipating he will use his counter? If he counters, then he is facing to the left and unable to make it to the stage.

If that is the case, then I'm now confused by @ Xygonn 's suggestion of using the back hit of nair. That would seem to be less reliable.

 

[Xygonn]

This thread is full of Samus goodness, lots of stuff I wouldn't have thought to try out! I'm so far behind the learning curve.



Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding how this works, if you don't mind clarifying. Cross up their shield with dash attack means you dash attacked while they were shielding and you are now on the other side of the opponent. You're saying that since the opponent will likely go for the pivot grab, you spot dodge their grab and hit with u-tilt? You have to pivot then u-tilt since you're facing away from them, right?

At least turnaround, yes.

Also, I'm a little confused about the Little Mac strategy provided by @ MegaRiff . OK, so if Little Mac is recovering high, let's say on the left side of the stage, one thing we can do is fall off the stage to the left so we're going under him, then jump and bair his left side before he makes it over the ground, anticipating he will use his counter? If he counters, then he is facing to the left and unable to make it to the stage.

If that is the case, then I'm now confused by @ Xygonn 's suggestion of using the back hit of nair. That would seem to be less reliable.

Basically, approach like you are going to fair; don't do the fair when he counters. Go through little mac, then use bair or nair.

Slip counter is actually pretty long, so you can just jump straight through it and still get the back hit of nair. Bair will be more reliable because it comes out on frame 9. Nair will get you hit less hard by the slip counter though. You can also use uair, but that is hard to get on the back side of little mac when approaching from the front.

I've been using the back hit of nair a little more (it's still bad), but the timing is the same as dair. I think it works best on taller characters if you have been using shad nair, then do a sh nair where you can catch them with the back hit, they might let go of shield after the front hit.

 

[E.Lopez]

Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yep, in fact you can do very fast pivot up-tilt, hold up and roll the stick to the pivot direction before hitting attack. I've been getting better and better at this, since spot-dodge -> up-tilt is a very good punish in general. I find it hard to just simply get the pivot up-tilt by hitting the stick at the perfect angle (I get angled f-tilt).

 

[MegaRiff]

Here's some footage of the set-ups I was referring to. I also threw in some footage of u-air combo breaks against mario and falcon. And then a short match at the end.

 

[bluesm0ke]

Idk if this is already common knowledge or not, but I find that super missiles lead into a lot of options. From 0-30% on most characters, a successful super missile can lead into grab. Even if they shield the missile, it's a free grab. From any percent from there, super missile leads into CS, and you can SH or FH it to accomadate their percent. And like what @ RoachCake said, if they try to jump over the super missile, they're still taking the CS. Super missiles can also lead into zair or a RAR bair at around 60%. Super missiles should be used with caution and space in the neutral but they have a lot of followups.

 

[KayJay]

Updated my Post with two Gify-examples.

 

[Zaprong]

https://vine.co/v/ejj5z5QqnmF

I discovered this purely accidentally. But then I realized it could be used against players that love trying to punish the grapples too hard.

So this works as:
-Grapple, wait until your opponent challenges your grapple.
-Go up as you predict the attack
-Opponent will be locked and will try double jumping
-Drop the ledge fastfalling and footstool them.

This doesn't work if:
-Opponent obviously doesn't challenge it, but will still give you breathing room
-They use their upb instead of their double jump (Which is risky in some upbs)

Inb4: "THESE AINT WORK WITH GOOD PLAYASSSSSSSS", it's still an option against your opponents in that scenario nonetheless IMO.

 

[DungeonMaster]

One of the few advantages in this game of being a tall character is hanging from the ledge drop -> footstool. In many low % and very fast recovery cases you'll never have time or timing to land a d-air, it is best to drop release the ledge, burn your jump and mash jump like crazy. Characters like pit, rosalina who don't have hitboxes on their up-B are good candidates since it's otherwise hard to intercept.

 

[Caedus]

When they are offstage, jump above the ledge, drop a bomb, retreat and immediately input SH FF D-Air. If they do a regular get up then the bomb knockbacks them into the D-Air. If they roll then they will be directly hit by D-Air.
After D-Air hitconfirm, B-Air finishes them.

I'm having trouble picturing the spacing for this. Do you have a video of each outcome?

 

[Crystanium]

SH over the opponent to b-air.
SH over the opponent to u-air. Wait for an opening to either jab or u-tilt.
Bomb to CS.
If the opponent is recovering to the ledge, wait there and attempt d-tilt to see if you get him/her at the 2 frame window.

 

[Petroklos]

I like punishing ledge get ups (or just enemies chilling at the stage's edge) with Jab 1, run off, BAir to stage spike. It could also be reverse CShot. If they wall tech it, double jump to DAir will most likely work. If they're close enough to the stage it might even be untechable.