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Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

meleebrawler

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Not just that, but also the AI involved with it. Nana has her own AI the system has to run every time the Icies are in a match, regardless of who is playing her. In short, a CPU Ice Climbers would need two AI controlling it, while say, a CPU Pokemon trainer still would only need one.

So if you had an 8 Player Smash of any other CPU character, the game has to run 8 character AI, but ice climbers would have to double that at 16. And even if it was all human players, it would have to be reading 8 sets of inputs and then running 8 sets of AI to match them. ...I’m grossly oversimplifying it. The point is, there’s a lot of complicated reasons why the Icies are difficult to work with, and why most duo characters transform into eachother or are just two models programmed in unison like Duck Hunt.




Actually, seeing how Pyra and Mythra work made it way easier for me to picture how Shantae would play. Since the Aegis duo share normal attacks but alter their hitboxes and frame data, that lets two characters effectively share a moveset while still feeling distinct AND reducing the amount of work to make them.

So, instead of fully transforming for Shantae’s special moves, stick all of her combat moves from the GBC game and some familiar spells like fireball and storm puff to fill up her normals and Smash attacks. Then, make her down special her Transformation dance, which she can cycle between 3-4 forms. That makes it so they only have to animate new special moves, like Pyra and Mythra, and only bring in the new models on those moves. Then, let the new forms just change her frame data on her normals so you don’t have to reanimate everything, just assign some hitboxes and speed up or slow down some animations.

-Monkey form makes her attacks much faster but much weaker, and makes her special moves Monkey Bullet for Neutral, probably a high jump or monkey acrobatics for an up and side special.
-Elephant form makes her slower and heavier, but makes her attacks hit like a truck. Her specials are now Elephant Stomp for neutral, Elephant Charge for the side, and a slight jump with a heavy plummet for an up special.
-Harpy makes her way lighter and gives her better air mobility and additional jumps (or if model swapping just for additional jumps is too much, just higher jumps?) at the cost of lots of attack power. Harpy feather neutral special, maybe a charging side special based on the Harpy’s run, and Harpy Flight up special.
-Spider... uh... Not sure what special properties spider would bring. Spider Venom neutral special, maybe a web slinging command grab side special, Spider Silk tether recovery up special.

And as an added bonus, Kirby would always have Shantae’s hair when transformed, but depending on what form she’s in when he copies her he takes on that special move!
Spider, I would put emphasis on grab power, and possibly give extra range to Shantae's moves, at the cost of either slightly reduced damage or attack speed on normals. It has always been about clinging to things one way or the other, and the venom ball in the original was one of the best ranged options there was. I suppose in this way you could compare it to Ivysaur. But don't forget the human form needs specials too, besides dancing!
 
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meleebrawler

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The transformations can easily be temporary for about a few seconds, this way they could fit as many of her forms as possible in her moveset. It ain't rocket science.
For sure the forms can be implemented as glorified moves. I would just be careful of focusing on cramming as many forms as possible at the detriment of functionality; the classic four at minimum serve well enough to represent the series.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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For sure the forms can be implemented as glorified moves. I would just be careful of focusing on cramming as many forms as possible at the detriment of functionality; the classic four at minimum serve well enough to represent the series.
Works for me, I do want harpy and elephant at least. Focusing on the earliest and well known abilities would be similar to :ultbanjokazooie: in that sense (depending on what WF would want).
 
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Comedic Comrade

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If I recall correctly, Masahiro Sakurai said that he is preparing two cinematics that are both being made around the same time during the presentation. Is this true?
 

meleebrawler

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Works for me, I do want harpy and elephant at least. Focusing on the earliest and well known abilities would be similar to :ultbanjokazooie: in that sense (depending on what WF would want).
On the other hand, I insist they use the modern Half-Genie Hero interpretation of Spider. Add in a smattering of Seven Sirens transformations like Octo Jet for the standard human recovery and she should be set.
 

RetrogamerMax

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On another note, or question rather;
Do you guys think Sakurai's talk about the limitations regarding Ice Climbers and Pyra and Mythra is a bit of a point against Shantae?
I've been thinking her animal transformations might further complicate things in that department...
Not really because, Rex & Pyra would have been two separate CPUs like the Ice Climbers and like the guys said above, Pyra/Mythra was the less taxing version of that since only one CPU is on the screen on the time. For Shantae's case, think of her animal transformations like Kazooie. Banjo is the only CPU and Kazooie is really just a weapon or extension of Banjo in the game. She isn't a separate CPU like Nana is to Popo. Shantae's animal transformations would just be brief transformations that would act as her Smash Attacks and Specials. That wouldn't take up as much space as Nana because they wouldn't be a separate CPU. You get what I'm saying?
 

MeteoRain

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Works for me, I do want harpy and elephant at least. Focusing on the earliest and well known abilities would be similar to :ultbanjokazooie: in that sense (depending on what WF would want).
The harpy and elephant are a must if you're going to make her a shapeshifting fighter. A threatening creature with free fight and a behemoth that hits like a truck seem like a no brainer.
 

Comedic Comrade

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Doesn't it bother you guys that Shantae has survived 9 Mii waves? I was expecting Pyra and Mythra to be the end of it just so I don't get disappointed, but to my surprise, she was spared yet again. It seems like something's up.
 

Staarih

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Doesn't it bother you guys that Shantae has survived 9 Mii waves? I was expecting Pyra and Mythra to be the end of it just so I don't get disappointed, but to my surprise, she was spared yet again. It seems like something's up.
Not really, as it was never a given she would get a Mii costume to begin with. I could totally see this pass going by without any sign on Shantae at all. Obviously, I would love to see at least a Mii costume if not playable fighter, but there's always the chance that... we get nothing, as sad as that is.
 

Comedic Comrade

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Not really, as it was never a given she would get a Mii costume to begin with. I could totally see this pass going by without any sign on Shantae at all. Obviously, I would love to see at least a Mii costume if not playable fighter, but there's always the chance that... we get nothing, as sad as that is.
That is one possibility. It's either nothing or she gets in. No Mii Costumes, no Assist Trophies (which will never happen to begin with), nothing. There is no other choice other than not putting her in or putting her in.
 

Jorichi

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Not really because, Rex & Pyra would have been two separate CPUs like the Ice Climbers and like the guys said above, Pyra/Mythra was the less taxing version of that since only one CPU is on the screen on the time. For Shantae's case, think of her animal transformations like Kazooie. Banjo is the only CPU and Kazooie is really just a weapon or extension of Banjo in the game. She isn't a separate CPU like Nana is to Popo. Shantae's animal transformations would just be brief transformations that would act as her Smash Attacks and Specials. That wouldn't take up as much space as Nana because they wouldn't be a separate CPU. You get what I'm saying?
Heh, yeah I got it when meleebrawler explain it, but thanks anyways. I kind of misinterpreted the point Sakurai was making, my bad!

Doesn't it bother you guys that Shantae has survived 9 Mii waves? I was expecting Pyra and Mythra to be the end of it just so I don't get disappointed, but to my surprise, she was spared yet again. It seems like something's up.
I'm not really expecting to see her get a Mii to be honest. They could make her work visually, but it'd still be kind of awkward. Not to mention she doesn't really fit any role specifically (Though they could make her costume fit all of the Mii roles and give swordfighter a Scimitar and gunner a Pistol). Having her hair as a colorable wig with physics would be awesome to have in general though.
At this point I'm just hoping Shantae gets at least something more. I'd feel very deflated if she doesn't get anything else than those two spirits and an icon, I'd feel so bad to see WayForward get the short end of the stick yet again. Even if what she got is already quite an accomplishment.

As speculation remains rather stale and not really having an idea how Shantae measures up against other potential fighters, I can do nothing more than cross my fingers and wish for it.
These last two fighters are going to be a long and painful wait, aren't they?
 

Comedic Comrade

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Heh, yeah I got it when meleebrawler explain it, but thanks anyways. I kind of misinterpreted the point Sakurai was making, my bad!


I'm not really expecting to see her get a Mii to be honest. They could make her work visually, but it'd still be kind of awkward. Not to mention she doesn't really fit any role specifically (Though they could make her costume fit all of the Mii roles and give swordfighter a Scimitar and gunner a Pistol). Having her hair as a colorable wig with physics would be awesome to have in general though.
At this point I'm just hoping Shantae gets at least something more. I'd feel very deflated if she doesn't get anything else than those two spirits and an icon, I'd feel so bad to see WayForward get the short end of the stick yet again. Even if what she got is already quite an accomplishment.

As speculation remains rather stale and not really having an idea how Shantae measures up against other potential fighters, I can do nothing more than cross my fingers and wish for it.
These last two fighters are going to be a long and painful wait, aren't they?
It's only three months until June, so it won't be that long.
 

meleebrawler

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Ooh, this was more in-depth than I expected it to be. This is great!
Didn't think I'd leave that video with even more respect for the music in Shantae than I already have, heh.
Felt like more than half of the video was about Risky's theme. It's not brought up a lot when talking potential Smash songs isn't it?
 

SoupCanMafia

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Nice, now if only we'd know anything at all about the progress on the Switch release for the first game.
I hope they were able to fix the problem of the sound lagging behind the video. That'd be pretty good
 

RetrogamerMax

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Nice, now if only we'd know anything at all about the progress on the Switch release for the first game.
No wonder I got a update for Seven Sirens yesterday on my Switch. I was wondering about that since I can't remember the last time I got a update for that game.
 
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SneakyLink

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The update isn't a lot to cover other then more languages added.

Still, I wonder when the GBC for shantae will arrive? Both digital and Physical LRG copy.
I'm also curious as to when the GBC Shantae will come to the Switch. Turning my Switch into a Shantae machine with the whole series in one place.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Turning my Switch into a Shantae machine with the whole series in one place.
Speaking of which y'all, Tinfoil Hat Theory:

But what if WayForward has been pumping out all this Shantae merchandise and porting every Shantae game in existence to the Switch because they're gearing up to promote Shantae in Smash? It's kind of farfetched, but it's weird to me that WayForward somehow got all this money to produce all this merchandise out of nowhere and developing Seven Sirens and promoting it all without Kickstarter support like the previous games. They're getting money from somewhere, but from who? Perhaps Nintendo is helping them out a bit because they agreed to allow Shantae in Smash as a fighter. Plus, why is WayForward waiting so long to port the Original and Risky's Revenge to the Switch when they already set up pre-orders for those games Limted Run releases last Summer? Maybe they're holding them off for some big announcement, maybe not, but I wouldn't lay my eyes off of WayForward in the coming months.
 

SebTheGamer

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Speaking of which y'all, Tinfoil Hat Theory:

But what if WayForward has been pumping out all this Shantae merchandise and porting every Shantae game in existence to the Switch because they're gearing up to promote Shantae in Smash? It's kind of farfetched, but it's weird to me that WayForward somehow got all this money to produce all this merchandise out of nowhere and developing Seven Sirens and promoting it all without Kickstarter support like the previous games. They're getting money from somewhere, but from who? Perhaps Nintendo is helping them out a bit because they agreed to allow Shantae in Smash as a fighter. Plus, why is WayForward waiting so long to port the Original and Risky's Revenge to the Switch when they already set up pre-orders for those games Limted Run releases last Summer? Maybe they're holding them off for some big announcement, maybe not, but I wouldn't lay my eyes off of WayForward in the coming months.
God only knows. I really cannot tell about WayForward’s toying secrets
 

Dukefire

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I'm somewhat not surprised if Wayforward does give a delay announcement, but March is still young. So wait for a little more before calling it.
Screenshot_20210304-180405_YouTube.jpg
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I'm somewhat not surprised if Wayforward does give a delay announcement, but March is still young. So wait for a little more before calling it.
View attachment 306411
Don't worry, my more reasonable assumptions tend to come true later rather than sooner.

In the meantime, this was posted:

 
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Dukefire

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Well, there isn't much for shantae currently other then Gameexplain bringing up about Shantae and the Seven Sirens music and a small update to the game from WF. Even WF posted Gameexplain video on their twitter.
 

LaBeteNoire

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I know I'm behind on this and this isn't the thing that we usually talk about on here, but I figure that news is slow right now so it shouldn't be a big issue.

So can I brag for just a moment? I decided yesterday that I wanted to do a 100% speed run of Seven Sirens. I usually get stressed out with speed runs so I never attempted one on any of the Shantae games before. Anyway, after I unlocked the final area of the game, I realized I had a chance at the any percent super speed run. So I made a copy of my file and tanked my way as fast as i could to the final boss...



Barely squeaked by with 25 seconds to spare lol. That was stressful, but I'm amazed I was able to do it. And the 100% speed run will be a breeze with 2 hours to finish everything off.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Hey guys. Sorry I've been gone from this page for so long.
You don't have to apologize.

I know I'm behind on this and this isn't the thing that we usually talk about on here, but I figure that news is slow right now so it shouldn't be a big issue.

So can I brag for just a moment? I decided yesterday that I wanted to do a 100% speed run of Seven Sirens. I usually get stressed out with speed runs so I never attempted one on any of the Shantae games before. Anyway, after I unlocked the final area of the game, I realized I had a chance at the any percent super speed run. So I made a copy of my file and tanked my way as fast as i could to the final boss...



Barely squeaked by with 25 seconds to spare lol. That was stressful, but I'm amazed I was able to do it. And the 100% speed run will be a breeze with 2 hours to finish everything off.
That's cool. I look forward to seeing you speedrun this game in the future in (Any). So are you going to upload your run to YouTube or Twitch or both?
 
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LaBeteNoire

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You don't have to apologize.



That's cool. I look forward to seeing you speedrun this game in the future in (Any). So are you going to upload your run to YouTube or Twitch or both?
No. I didn't record it and it wasn't done in one sitting, the only evidence of it is my save file and this screengrab. Besides it's hardly breaking any record or anything. The only thing remarkable about it is how close I came to not making it at all.
 

RetrogamerMax

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No. I didn't record it and it wasn't done in one sitting, the only evidence of it is my save file and this screengrab. Besides it's hardly breaking any record or anything. The only thing remarkable about it is how close I came to not making it at all.
Well, I said look forward to your future run. While you might not believe me, I speedrun Goemon's Great Adventure. I never recorded any of my runs though. I too plan to upload my runs sometime.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Character spotlight goes to that game's favorite boss.

Because I just kind of left the site a while back, and then came back after a few weeks, before spending the last couple months on 2 other forums and just leaving this one dry. I just wasn't sure what else to say when coming back here.
It's understandable. Seeing as besides maybe the artbook launching later this month and the current nonexistent launch date for the Switch rerelease of GBC, there really isn't anything Shantae for me to talk about right now myself.

I finally started playing Ultimate last week, so that'll distract me until I decide to catch up on other Switch games, anyway.
 
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