Shadow Sneak Uses Discussion

Glicnak

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
111
#1
One of the things I love about greninja is that all of his moves seem to have a purpose. Sure, substitute isn't a move you're going to be throwing out as much as dtilt, but it still leads to some potentially great kills or gets you out of a bind.

I cannot however find a good reason to throw out side B. It kills but there always seems to be a better, safer, less telegraphed kill option. It's decent for mobility but honestly upB just feels faster and safer, allowing you to snap ledges and go around moves. Realistically other than catching an unsafe, EXTREMELY slow projectile throw from not too far away, I don't really know when I should be using this move.

Even watching tournament greninja play, I don't think I've seen a single use of this move that didn't either get punished (on block, on whiff, or by not snapping the ledge) or simply just recover in a way that upB could have also done equally or more safely.

Any help or discussion is appreciated! Thanks
 
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Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
2
#2
It should never just be thrown out in neutral. It is godlike offstage, where mixed in with other edge guards (fair, bair, hydro pump) it becomes extremely deadly and kills almost anyone below ~60%. It's also pretty good mixed in to juggle situations on stage, instead of chasing with another up air, you can go back to the ground, shadow sneak, double jump and catch someone by surprise. This use is definitely more situational than when it's used to edge guard but its still fairly safe as your opponent is unlikely to be able/ready to punish it even if you miss. Those are the situations I use it in most, but it also has some utility in tech chases and punishing rolls. The tech chase situation is fairly straight forward, you hit your opponent with an f tilt or bair or something that sets up a tech chase, and use shadow sneak to guess the option they choose. Punishing rolls is more situational and comes into play against bad players or when you have a hard read on a roll. Instead of chasing with dash attack or down smashing when they roll through you, you can shadow sneak to where they'll be and get a good punish.

Hope that helps! Don't keep sleeping on the sneak.
 

Firox

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
2,407
#5
Yeah, the two best uses I recommend would be the following:
1) I miss an up air juggle, so instead I fast fall SS to catch their landing unexpectedly. Their eyes are almost always on you in the air and not on the ground beneath them.

2) Punish the ever-loving feck out of chronic spot dodgers

Both tactics will only surprise them once, so try to never use it unless the opponent is at 80% minimum to guarantee the kill.
 
Joined
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#6
As I am one of two main contributors to the Greninja Singles Playlist within the Greninja Discord, I see a lot of sets. In regards to which players use Shadow Sneak the most in tournament play? Easily Venia and Akashic.

In regards to Frame Data, the move has to be held a minimum of 5 Frames (Uncharged) before it releases the attack itself which comes out at Frame 24 now whenever you release the charge (maximum hold time of 90 Frames).

There's a lot of uses for Shadow Sneak though that can vary by percent/positioning if you can get into the right mindset and with enough conditioning. It's not really a neutral tool outside of some very situational and risky endeavors such as getting around predictable projectile tosses, occasional tech/roll chasing, or baiting out a panic option (shield drop/spotdodge among others) at high percent and smacking them with this move. All of those situations usually have better options though such as (Sub Countering or Tech-Chasing with Dash Attack/Down Tilt). Here are some examples some have said in this thread already and otherwise however such as:

Edge-Guarding (Snipe their double jump or force a linear recovery and you can kill people really early with how strong it is)
- https://gfycat.com/darlingyellowishballoonfish
- https://gfycat.com/HomelyWebbedBeardeddragon (Hits hard enough off to knock Snake right out of his Cypher)
- https://gfycat.com/incrediblehideousankole
- https://gfycat.com/politereliableamericanrobin


Juggle Punishes (Catch panic airdodges or mix in shadow sneak when you can't true combo into another Uair)
- https://twitter.com/_xoxowastaken/status/1076962201368444928
- https://twitter.com/AkashicGaming/status/1080352038008037376
- https://twitter.com/EluTranscendent/status/1079166416648056833 (25 seconds to the end)


Miscellaneous
- https://gfycat.com/AgileForthrightAmericanbulldog
 
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Kevandre

Ivy WAS Saurly missed
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#7
I've found it to be both glorious and disrespectful to use against characters that charge and shoot. Vanish before the projectile hits you, reappear afterward but before the enemy is done with their animation, get the kill. I get those a lot. In fact, shadow sneak is one of my more reliable moves with Greninja
 

OMG H4X

Smash Journeyman
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SoVA
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rustytotallypwns
#8
No lie, I’ve been incorporating shadow sneak into my game more and lemme tell you, it’s pretty tight! Off stage bair to sneak gets a lot of early kills. Not to mention the up air fakes and spot dodge/roll punishes. Working wonders for me online, excited to see how it might help me in tournament. Might post some usage videos eventually. Keep it up Frog Squad!
 

MartinAW4

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
312
#12
But does this cancel the 11 frames of shueld drop or no?
Yes, of course. The moment you input the side B, your shield disappears. Side B just doesn't have the fastest start up, so it's not a fast OoS option to use for regular punishes. But I like to use it vs projectile spammers to slowly approach with shield and once I'm close, I can shield a projectile and SS OoS to hit them.
 
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