Several Buffs I think Kirby Needs...

[Xandercosm]

Kirby is a great character but he deserves better. Here are some improvements that need to be made:

• Increased speed
• Less lag on neutral special
• change side special to Brawl's
• Increased distance and speed on dash attack
• Slight weight boost
• slightly less lag on up & down specials

Tell me what you think and if there's anything you would add or subtract from this list.

 

[Togii]

So you want Kirby to get less lag on all his special moves, increased speed all around, and increased weight? I would welcome these changes, but they aren't really what Kirby NEEDS. Not to mention it's kind of a pipe dream to think they would buff almost every aspect of the character.

What Kirby actually needs, and could viably get:

• Increased horizontal air speed

• An up-b that actually snaps to ledge

• A vertical kill move that isn't a smash attack

It would be nice if custom moves were widely accepted, as it would fix the latter two issues.

 

[Xandercosm]

So you want Kirby to get less lag on all his special moves, increased speed all around, and increased weight? I would welcome these changes, but they aren't really what Kirby NEEDS. Not to mention it's kind of a pipe dream to think they would buff almost every aspect of the character.

What Kirby actually needs, and could viably get:

• Increased horizontal air speed

• An up-b that actually snaps to ledge

• A vertical kill move that isn't a smash attack

It would be nice if custom moves were widely accepted, as it would fix the latter two issues.

I listed OP buffs on purpose just so we could water it down to what he really needs.

 

[Uncle Honey]

I would like to see Kirby's approach game buffed, but this has more to do with the character's innate design. I doubt it could be fixed with numbers alone.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Kirby is getting some buffs every patch with basi callyno needs, which is great.
Some reasonable buffs I think wouldn't be too much to ask for is
Improved airspeed
Slightly stronger Bthrow
Let his UpB meteor land more consistently
Slightly less endlag on Stone

 

[Xandercosm]

Kirby is getting some buffs every patch with basi callyno needs, which is great.
Some reasonable buffs I think wouldn't be too much to ask for is
Improved airspeed
Slightly stronger Bthrow
Let his UpB meteor land more consistently
Slightly less endlag on Stone

I agree.

 

[Underhill]

What I like to see Kirby getting buffed are:

• Air speed boost slighty
• Increased falling speed slighty
• Up-b to snap the ledge to avoid gimps

Thats pretty much it. While I don't want Kirby over-powered so the fans don't demand nerfs on him, I don't think he needs anymore buffs.

 

[Jerodak]

Just make inhale stock opponents, The it'd be canon.

 

[Seleir]

i think kirby needs

• Range
• Speed
• A good special and a snap for recovery

 

[FKA Kobra]

As long as he stays mid tier so we don't get too much attention. I want people to be surprised when they see how good Kirby is.

 

[Kewkky]

Honestly, upB snapping ledges and a bit more grab range seem like all he needs to be a far better character. A bit more disjointed range on his bair would help, too.

 

[StraightUpSquared]

All I really think Kirby needs is a bit *alot* more airspeed, a Fair that autocancels out of a shorthop and a f4 Nair, I feel these would bring his neutral game from meh to actually pretty good.

 

[Phan7om]

I actually think Kirby is better than I used to think lol, so he doesn't really need much but he definitely needs a little something. I would give him

• Autocancel short-hop Fair
• Uthrow more KB (Kills somewhere in between ROB's and Marth's Uthrow)
• Faster run speed, and air mobility.
• Uncharged Hammer KB increased (to be about the KB where the flames start to appear)

I know I keep changing this lol, it was different in another thread. But atm this is all I think he needs to be like top 20 without customs.

 

[TimG57867]

Here's what I'd like Kirby to get:

- Less startup on the Rock, D-Air, N-Air, Final Cutter, Up Smash, and Down Smash
- Final Cutter getting its Brawl range (or more) back to allow for zoning
- Up Throw killing 40-50 % sooner
- Less end lag on Up Air, Up B, and N -Air

More air and ground speed would be awesome but I can't see them changing those unless they do that for a bunch of characters too. And if Kirby gets this stuff, he won't need it.

 

[phantom man]

Kirby's airspeed horizontally sucks and Final Cutter isn't a reliable recovery move. Those are the only buffs I want.

 

[Agent Emerald]

More mobile (Airspeed would be better)
Make Final cutter useful in some way, be it recovery, damage, or some unknown third thing
Up throw Killing earlier

All these would be godsends.

 

[TimG57867]

More mobile (Airspeed would be better)
Make Final cutter useful in some way, be it recovery, damage, or some unknown third thing
Up throw Killing earlier

All these would be godsends.

To make Final Cutter useful, they need to:

1. Give it back its Brawl range or more. Wave Cutter does 15% so that's no excuse to make Final Cutter's projectile so limited. Heck, just increase the range for both.

2. Cut the startup and endlag in half. This way Kirby can actually take his opponent by surprise with it and use it to zone.

3. Make the spike stronger so the projectile doesn't get in the way.

BONUS: Make it sweetspot on a the rise and from behind to make its spike more practical.

On top of that, they need to improve the general frame data on all of Kirby's aerials (especially D-Air and N-Air) and Smashes and cut down Down B's startup to help Kirby punish juggles. I actually think Kirby's poor range and mobility could be compensated if his actual moves just came out and ended sooner. Given his weight, range, and combo-oriented nature, it's shocking how much startup and/or end lag a lot of his attacks have.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Buffs I would like:

- Final Cutter auto-snap, reduce start-up and endlag (there is seriously NO reason it should have more start-up than Upper Cutter), increase range of wave.
- Reduce FAF on up smash to make it a strong, yet safe kill option.
- Damage buff to up throw: 10% to 12%
- Reduced start-up and landing lag on D-Air by about 3-4 frames each, reduced start-up and endlag on U-Air, reduced start-up on N-Air (Why does this have the EXACT same start-up and landing lag as ZSS N-Air?), reduced start-up on F-Air. Basically, every aerial except the one that takes less than 10 frames to come out.

Problem with Kirby's aerials is that they come out so surprisingly slow for a character of his class, yet he doesn't have enough range to make his moves safe. Then the issue with his smashes is that they have such long cool down as well.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Many characters have long cooldown for Smashes and for Kirby's weight class, all of his are powerful enough for their speed and they aren't even that laggy.
Sometimes people can't just be reasonable for buffs :\
For me, Final cutter could use a bit less end lag
Nair could have less end lag, now the endlag it has is absurd.
Having either back or up throw slightly stronger wouldn't hurt

These few simple things wouldn't be too much to ask, I like using FC as a spacing move, it works sometimes but if power shielded I can get punished, but its one of my best moves against sword characters or SH Ariel users, so that's all I ask from it.
Nair has so much end lag its barely used offstage, I know its use onstage is pretty good considering its tiny landing lag, but I want it to have some use offstage.
And having a stronger throw would be nice.

 

[TimG57867]

Many characters have long cooldown for Smashes and for Kirby's weight class, all of his are powerful enough for their speed and they aren't even that laggy.
Sometimes people can't just be reasonable for buffs :\
For me, Final cutter could use a bit less end lag
Nair could have less end lag, now the endlag it has is absurd.
Having either back or up throw slightly stronger wouldn't hurt

These few simple things wouldn't be too much to ask, I like using FC as a spacing move, it works sometimes but if power shielded I can get punished, but its one of my best moves against sword characters or SH Ariel users, so that's all I ask from it.
Nair has so much end lag its barely used offstage, I know its use onstage is pretty good considering its tiny landing lag, but I want it to have some use offstage.
And having a stronger throw would be nice.

The cooldown for our smashes is fine. It's the startup that could be tweeked. For instance, compared to characters like Fox, Pikachu, Falco, Mario, etc, our Up Smash is pretty slow on startup. If something were to strike their shields from above, they could drop shield and Up Smash but we can't. I think due to our range, it wouldn't be crazy to have either Down or Up Smash come out a bit sooner. Perhaps by 2-4 frames?

Honestly, it's the aerials that really need a frame data boost. Compared to other combo oriented characters, like Meta Knight, Pikachu, and Luigi our aerials are rather slow given their range which is why we often can't challenge other characters' aerials and can have a harder time making our strings last. Speeding all of them up except B-Air which is fine would be a huge help.

Also I also like Final Cutter by design. I just want the move fixed. If it were faster on startup and endlag, with possibly a longer ranged projectile, it would make Kirby's neutral workable. They could also make stone come out faster but keep the recoil time.

I personally feel that if Kirby got better aerials, better Final Cutter, and a good kill throw (Up Throw preferably) his light weight, small range, and poor mobility would be a fair tradeoff. No need to do something drastic like change our speed values. Just make our actual moves more effective to balance it out.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Well since we are talking about it, it would be cool if Nair was faster, I always for a while thought fair was faster then 10 frames but man was I surprised.
Yea but let's be honest, what are our CORE problems, and which could at least be slightly less bad in a way?
Range isn't really a core problem, some high/top tiers have range issues
His weight also shouldn't really be considered one as well.
Speed is arguably one of the core problems, sadly I think it's safe to assume Kirby won't be getting mobility buffs :/
His approach, arguably his biggest problem, how can something like that be at least slightly better? Well final cutter being buffed is one of the best options.....but technically you don't approach with that....just for spacing and stuff.
Can we consider his Neutral a different problem? His neutral does suck, but what could make it better?
I guess not having a reliable kill confirm/kill throw is a core problem, one of his lower ones, but something like this definitely can be fixed by giving him a simple kill throw.

 

[TimG57867]

Well since we are talking about it, it would be cool if Nair was faster, I always for a while thought fair was faster then 10 frames but man was I surprised.
Yea but let's be honest, what are our CORE problems, and which could at least be slightly less bad in a way?
Range isn't really a core problem, some high/top tiers have range issues
His weight also shouldn't really be considered one as well.
Speed is arguably one of the core problems, sadly I think it's safe to assume Kirby won't be getting mobility buffs :/
His approach, arguably his biggest problem, how can something like that be at least slightly better? Well final cutter being buffed is one of the best options.....but technically you don't approach with that....just for spacing and stuff.
Can we consider his Neutral a different problem? His neutral does suck, but what could make it better?
I guess not having a reliable kill confirm/kill throw is a core problem, one of his lower ones, but something like this definitely can be fixed by giving him a simple kill throw.

Actually, range is a core problem in Kirby's case because of his attack speed. Range isn't a problem for someone like Pikachu because is frame data is superb. Once inside, he can just keep the moves going. If Kirby's moves were faster, his range wouldn't matter. But his moves are short AND slow which hinders his effectiveness. I do agree that weight isn't really a core problem but it'd be nice having our moveset buffed so that we could handle foes more efficiently before rage screws us over. I also algree on the Up Throw thing. Killing Mario around 140-150% seems fair.

However I think Final Cutter could improve his neutral. Think about it. Both the blade and and projectile are transcendent. If it could be done fast enough, you could protect yourself with the blade which can beat disjoints and projectiles while using the Wind projectile to control your foes positioning. I mean you can move forward while using it. Right now we can't because they move takes forever to come out and end, but if it were sped up overall, it'd give us better stage presence. In any case, it really just needs to come out and end sooner.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Many characters have long cooldown for Smashes and for Kirby's weight class, all of his are powerful enough for their speed and they aren't even that laggy.
Sometimes people can't just be reasonable for buffs :\
For me, Final cutter could use a bit less end lag
Nair could have less end lag, now the endlag it has is absurd.
Having either back or up throw slightly stronger wouldn't hurt

These few simple things wouldn't be too much to ask, I like using FC as a spacing move, it works sometimes but if power shielded I can get punished, but its one of my best moves against sword characters or SH Ariel users, so that's all I ask from it.
Nair has so much end lag its barely used offstage, I know its use onstage is pretty good considering its tiny landing lag, but I want it to have some use offstage.
And having a stronger throw would be nice.

What exactly was "unreasonable" what I wanted? The faster aerials buff? The throw buff? The FAF for Up Smash? I guess I should've rephrased: The cool down on Kirby's smashes AND start-up combined aren't very good for someone of his weight class. I am open up to "reasonable" buffs, there was really no need to take a jab like that, honestly. :\

Up Smash is strong enough, but yes, it has pretty big start-up for a move that's only slightly stronger than most flip kicks.

 

[Furret24]

Plausible buffs i'd like to see Kirby get:

• Decreased start-up on Up and Down Smash. That way, they could be better punish options.
• Decreased start-up on aerials. Notably on Neutral, Forward, and Down Air.
• Increased damage (10% -> 12%) and knockback on Up Throw so it's a reliable kill throw again.
• Increased knockback on uncharged and slightly charged Hammer.
• Decreased start-up on Stone.
• Make Final Cutter spike and snap ledges reliably, as well as making the wave go Brawl distance.

That's all he needs in my opinion.

 

[Asdioh]

Well since we are talking about it, it would be cool if Nair was faster, I always for a while thought fair was faster then 10 frames but man was I surprised.
Yea but let's be honest, what are our CORE problems, and which could at least be slightly less bad in a way?
Range isn't really a core problem, some high/top tiers have range issues
His weight also shouldn't really be considered one as well.
Speed is arguably one of the core problems, sadly I think it's safe to assume Kirby won't be getting mobility buffs :/
His approach, arguably his biggest problem, how can something like that be at least slightly better? Well final cutter being buffed is one of the best options.....but technically you don't approach with that....just for spacing and stuff.
Can we consider his Neutral a different problem? His neutral does suck, but what could make it better?
I guess not having a reliable kill confirm/kill throw is a core problem, one of his lower ones, but something like this definitely can be fixed by giving him a simple kill throw.

You're right, none of these are major problems by themselves. All characters need flaws. It's just that Kirby has all these weaknesses at the same time, which compounds the problem. Mario has short range, but a lot of speed so it helps cover the weaknesses. Sheik and Rosalina are pretty light, but have obvious strengths that make it less of a problem. Ness isn't too fast, but has range and strength to make up for it.

Also, I'm in favor of getting rid of moves that have strong potential to kill at stupidly low percents. There are various characters (Mario, ZSS, Meta Knight) that have Upair->UpB combos that can be absurd, especially with Rage. Rosalina and Ike can kill at 0% with Rage, thanks to certain moves having high base knockback + Rage + opponent charging a smash. Obviously this is a very rare case, but it shouldn't exist. That said, I think Kirby's Final Cutter spike is too strong. I would gladly see the move's frame data improved, at the cost of the spike being weaker offstage. I'm not sure how to make the move work onstage though, because it's supposed to knock them up, then down, then away with the third hit. Problem is, the move already doesn't work properly, because good players can tech the spike portion, and then punish you. Every time. Still, better frame data, minus 0% kills offstage, would be nice. I wouldn't even mind if the second hit (the spiking part) sent opponents away at an upward angle, thus removing the low % spiking problem, and the teching on the ground problem, at the same time. FC would no longer be a 3 hit combo, but instead a useful 2 hit combo that sets the opponent up for landing chases. At the same time, lower lag would make the projectile portion more usable by itself, so that would be nice as well.

Major changes I want are a little bit faster horizontal airspeed, and reliable KO options. Airspeed alone would make Kirby significantly better in a lot of ways, so that's already a nice boost. For KO options, Dair->Smash is one of my favorite setups, and it makes sense, but it's inconsistent. A lot of the time Dair->Dsmash gets powershielded, so theoretically, cutting ~4 frames off of Dair's endlag should remove the powershields, right? And since Kirby doesn't have any throws that combo into KO moves, then the ever-popular suggestion of Upthrow KOing earlier is perfectly fine. Doesn't need to be as strong as Charizard's, but definitely needs to be stronger.

I/we sound like a broken record at this point. I could suggest multiple buffs to his aerials and stuff, but these few changes alone are a very good start, and would probably make him viable.

Also, I made a post here about the airspeed changes from Brawl to smash 4. You might find it interesting.

 

[KenMeister]

I feel Kirby regaining his Brawl air speed would make a world of difference alone so that he can weave in and out with bairs again.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I feel Kirby regaining his Brawl air speed would make a world of difference alone so that he can weave in and out with bairs again.

I would preach to heavens if he got his 64 disjoints back. XD

 

[TimG57867]

I think Kirby does deserve to have his air speed increased and it would be one of the greatest buffs he could get. Problem is that compared to other possible buffs, it doesn't seem too realistic. I mean if they increased his air speed, they might as well do the same for Luigi and King Dedede. And they also might as well make Robin and Mii Gunner run faster and so on. Point is, I am not sure the devs would adjust the speed values for just one character. They'd have to do multiple ones to make it fair. That's not to say that wouldn't be ideal, but I am not sure they would want to go through the trouble, though I'd love to be proven wrong.

In any case, I just want quicker aerials, quicker Rock, quicker D-Smash/Up Smash, quicker Up B with more range, (Wow. Kirby's moveset outside tilts is pretty darn slow all things considered ) and an Up Throw that can kill Mario between 140-150% without rage for now. That'd be enough for Kirby to make it in the big leagues if they don't buff his mobility in my opinion.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Well, I actually see what you mean.....hmm....then in that case, some moves did bother me that I want to address.
Most of these wont happen, or are even reasonable, but these are what I kinda want.
Fair needs slightly less start-up, I always thought before it was faster then 10 frames, but surprisingly isnt the case.
His nair is almost useless offstage with its crazy end lag, reduce that please....start-up should be reduced a couple frames so its....somewhat of a combo breaker?
Final cutter at least needs less ending lag, I think its best to have attacks that may have some slight start-up but little lag to make it quite difficult to punish(MK Fsmash, DA Ganon Usmash) then again having both isnt bad
Make Bthrow or Uthrow stronger, Uthrow I would understand why it isnt Too strong because of being able to travel through platforms and land on them, but its still quite weak.
I guess Reduce Uairs ending lag or Duration by a couple frames or so.

Stone, could have less start-up by like 2-3 frames
Hammer is mainly used for punishing broken shields....doesnt need any change because thats really all its good for.

Basically Kirby has some Good Kill power for his weight class, but not really any reliable ones, which is understandable.
His ariels arent really that fast, but not that slow either, but at least make one of his 10 frame arielsslightly faster.

I want more airspeed.....this alone would do wonders.

His smash attacks are reasonable in my eyes, mainly punishers, you shouldnt throw them out, but once they hit, they hurt.
Dsmash is pretty fine(though I do miss its sourspot semi-spike hitbox) 10 frames I believe? there may be faster Dsmashes but lets be honest, how many of them are stronger? It does have Intangibility on his feet, so its something nice to have I guess.

Usmash may have some slight start-up, being 14 frames, but its very powerful. Asdioh I believe you said that it may even be stronger then Fox's?
A good deal of Usmashes are faster then this, but slightly weaker, but kirbys unlike most has intangibility.
School is annoying, i will be back later....maybe xD

 

[Furret24]

No. Fox's is considerably stronger than Kirby's. It's also 6 frames faster.

 

[KenMeister]

I think Kaabii's smashes are fine generally speaking (start up of both smashes feel right, buff endlag and they'd be....obnoxious), I just wish they'd get rid of the questionable sour spot on up smash. Why do we have one when characters who have stronger up smashes like Mario and Fox don't have that same issue? =/

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I'm pretty sure it's not considerably, at best only slightly, but again I am not 100% sure
Even if it is faster, it's much more punishable apparently? and it's one of his few KO moves he has other then Uair and........idk what else but yea.

 

[KenMeister]

I'm pretty sure it's not considerably, at best only slightly, but again I am not 100% sure
Even if it is faster, it's much more punishable apparently? and it's one of his few KO moves he has other then Uair and........idk what else but yea.

Weird, 75% of my kills come from bair or upthrow/backthrow actually.

 

[TimG57867]

I still think having a Frame 14 Up Smash on Kirby is silly given its range and Kirby's movement speed. Kirby really just needs to have a lot his moves sped up general. When you're slow and light, you got be able to land your hits when you get the chance.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Knowing Sakurai and along with Kirbys MAIN problems, he won't get the true buffs that he technically needs, with the closest thing arguably being a kill throw.

Range obviously won't be fixed, speed is most likely the same, weight pretty much the same, approach, again, I don't exactly know what on earth they can do to fix this, so for now, I have to assume this can't be fixed.

So reliable kill confirm/kill throw is what makes sense right?
Ugh, if anything of Kirby were to get increased in terms of speed it would mostly be his specials, has any of his attacks AT ALL besides his specials gotten reduced start up or end lag?

Also when's the next patch? You think Kirby may get buffs in that one?

 

[TimG57867]

Knowing Sakurai and along with Kirbys MAIN problems, he won't get the true buffs that he technically needs, with the closest thing arguably being a kill throw.

Range obviously won't be fixed, speed is most likely the same, weight pretty much the same, approach, again, I don't exactly know what on earth they can do to fix this, so for now, I have to assume this can't be fixed.

So reliable kill confirm/kill throw is what makes sense right?
Ugh, if anything of Kirby were to get increased in terms of speed it would mostly be his specials, has any of his attacks AT ALL besides his specials gotten reduced start up or end lag?

Also when's the next patch? You think Kirby may get buffs in that one?

Really Kirby's design is just fine. It's just that Final Cutter has issues and his moves bar tilts are too slow. If they cut his aerials startup and endlag, cut the startup on Down and Up Smash, cut Rock's startup, cut Final Cutter's startup and endlag along with possibly improving the projectile's range, and made Up Throw kill, Kirby would be perfectly viable. More air speed would be great, but I think poor mobility would be a fair tradeoff if our actual attacks just got a speed boost along with a better Final Cutter and Up Throw.

 

[Bribery]

Some ideas. Reasons are in the spoilers. My goals were to improve Kirby's disadvantage and advantage states so that they make up for his crappy neutral and poor mobility/approach.


- Nair: Decrease startup (Frame 10 -> Frame 3), adjust damage (10%/8%/6%/4% -> 8%/6%)
- Stone: Lower the damage, halve the startup and significantly reduce the end lag
- Final Cutter: Decrease the startup and end lag by a few frames, double the projectile range

Spoiler

The above 3 buffs are to improve Kirby's disadvantage state, which is pretty bad despite having multiple jumps.

A F3 Nair gives Kirby a "get off me" option and combo breaker like the Mario bros have. The new damage values also make it easier to start combos with.

Stone is repurposed from a situational edge guarding tool to a way to escape juggles (kind of like what Project M did with the move).

Final Cutter being slightly faster makes it a bit harder to gimp Kirby on the way up.

- Uthrow: Increase the KB growth so it KOs 30% earlier
- Bthrow: Increase damage (8% -> 10%) so it KOs earlier
- Fthrow: Slightly decrease the end lag
- Uair: Increase damage (9% -> 13%) so it KOs much earlier

Spoiler

The above changes are to improve his advantage state. Uthrow and Bthrow are now more reliable kill throws. This gives Kirby a safe and reliable KO option, something which he really needs.

The Fthrow buff Kirby previously got was nice but DI makes it harder to follow up after like 20-30% on most characters. Giving Kirby more frame advantage will improve his follow ups at mid %s.

Uair is changed to be more like his Melee Uair, where it's more of a KO move than a combo tool. I think it's better this way. Kirby doesn't have the airspeed to be able to juggle with Uair anyways. With Uair being a KO move, Kirby can now pose a threat to opponents that are above him. Without Upper Cutter, being above Kirby is really safe for the opponent.

- Dash Attack: Increase damage (9% total -> 14% total)
- Dair: Decrease startup (Frame 18 -> Frame 12)
- Fair: Decrease startup (Frame 10 -> Frame 6)
- Dthrow: Increase damage (10.2% -> 12%) and change the launch angle from 63 to 45 degrees
- Usmash: Make the strong hit last for 2 frames instead of just 1
- Fsmash: Make the strong hit last from frame 12-15 (like it was in Brawl)
- Hammer Flip: Significantly increase the KB of the uncharged hammer so it KOs 20-30% earlier than Usmash

Spoiler

The above are mainly minor "quality of life" buffs. They would be nice to have but won't significantly improve Kirby.

Kirby's Dash Attack is currently too "high risk/low reward", so it should do more damage so that it's more rewarding. I think it should do 14% like it did in Brawl.

Dair and Fair are too slow, especially for a character with terrible airspeed like Kirby's.

Dthrow gets a slight damage buff to improve Kirby's damage output when his Fthrow followups stop working. Its angle adjusted for better positioning. Currently, Fthrow, Dthrow, and Uthrow all launch at very similar angles.

Usmash is strong but its strong hit is only on the first frame of the move. I think that's pretty bad for such a punishable move. The strong hit should last at least for 2 frames like Fox's and Pikachu's Usmashes, which are pretty similar to Kirby's anyways.

The Fsmash change is really just undoing an unnecessary nerf from Brawl.

I can't think of many ways to make Hammer Flip useful. It's about 10 frames slower than Up Smash so at the very least it should KO earlier even when uncharged.

 

[KirbySquad101]

No. Fox's is considerably stronger than Kirby's. It's also 6 frames faster.

I might be wrong, but...

Kirby's Up Smash: BK (34); KG (102)
Fox's Up Smash: BK (30); KG (94)

Difference is that Fox's sends at a slightly more vertical angle, so his BARELY kills earlier.

And Fox has a clean 40+ frames of end lag after his move; I don't know Kirby's, but it can't be worse than that.

 

[Furret24]

I might be wrong, but...

Kirby's Up Smash: BK (34); KG (102)
Fox's Up Smash: BK (30); KG (94)

Difference is that Fox's sends at a slightly more vertical angle, so his BARELY kills earlier.

And Fox has a clean 40+ frames of end lag after his move; I don't know Kirby's, but it can't be worse than that.

I believe Kirby's kills later due to being easier to DI. This is similar to why Charizard's Up Throw kills later than Mewtwo's with DI, despite being stronger.

 

[KirbySquad101]

That explains it; that, and Fox's does slightly more damage (16%).

Deciding to change my mind concerning Kirby's up smash; Kirby's up smash should be lowered to about 11 frames of start-up; seeing that it's slower than pretty much every flip kick in the game is pretty silly, especially on an incredibly slow character like Kirby. :/

In terms of mobility buffs, I can't see that happening. Sakurai's seems intent with keeping character's attributes the way they are, aside from hitboxes. That said, the only buffs I can see happening that would help Kirby would be frame data buffs - particularly to his aerials and Final Cutter - and knock back buffs to up throw/back throw. That, and auto-snap buffs to Final Cutter.