Seriously, how the heck do you win the Sheik matchup?

[multigrain_cheerios]

I'm not the best at the game (yet, haha) but I feel like I have a good grasp on most matchups. Except mother****in sheik. No matter what happens, the same thing happens: I get tilted to a bad position, I get grabbed, I die. Repeat.

How am I supposed to DI out of all of Sheik's moves that combo Link so god damn easily?

EDIT: Melee. And PM, I guess

 

[SAUS]

I don't play PM, so I don't know how the matchup is there.

In Melee, you pretty much DI all of her moves away or down+away to try to escape from combos (this is actually true for almost all characters). It causes you to be pushed farther away from her moves to places that are hard to reach. There are some percents you will have to learn where you will be getting hit by her fair no matter what, but that will come with time. In those cases, though, you want to DI so that you are as close to center stage as possible when she hits you. That way you have more chance to survive (you have to go further distance to get to the blast zone).

Shiek is rather bad at approaching, so abuse that with your projectiles. Throwing bombs and boomerangs from platforms is pretty safe, since she can't throw needles straight at you, and she can't easily get above you. If she goes on the platform across from you, then go to ground level.

If she is in the air and you are at low damage, so long as you aren't where you will get hit by needles on her way down, you can crouch cancel all her aerials and get a down-smash off of them.

While she has devastating combos on Link, Link also has strong combos on her. I played a Shiek at a local tourney 3 weeks ago and got the match recorded. You can check out that match here (round 7 - losers finals):
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-link-video-thread.100684/page-17#post-16856490

A real key to the matchup is the ability to edge-guard her. Learn how her up-b works and learn how to abuse ledge invincibility to make sure you punish her recovery extremely hard. I think there is a decent amount of this demonstrated in the videos.

 

[Thor]

I'm not the best at the game (yet, haha) but I feel like I have a good grasp on most matchups. Except mother****in sheik. No matter what happens, the same thing happens: I get tilted to a bad position, I get grabbed, I die. Repeat.
How am I supposed to DI out of all of Sheik's moves that combo Link so god damn easily?
EDIT: Melee. And PM, I guess

From a Melee perspective:

This is one of Link's top three hardest MUs to deal with (Space animals too). Make sure you're mixing up your DI on dthrow, and know KO percents - if you're on the top platform of Battlefield, uair might KO while fair won't, so DI where uair can't get you - similarly, on the edge at the base of the stage, DI so that Sheik's correct follow-up is uair.

I play Link some still, and he used to be my main, but this MU is... it's just dirty how nasty Sheik is to deal with.

You should be able to nair out of tilt combos at low percents, I think... at least at zero, if you miss the CC, mash nair, since hitstun [for me] seems to be low enough to just nair her out of it, at which point you L-cancel and retreat or attack.

Link's dthrow doesn't set up for combos properly until higher percents, so go with uthrow (Sheik doesn't have the best landing options). Unfortunately utilt -> dair won't KO on Dreamland and doesn't KO a lot on most stages outside of Yoshi's because the utilt's KBG is too high for it to link reliably at percents where dair will KO. It's still not a bad way to get some damage, but Sheik's not a spacie so you can't go for this at like 110% and KO her off the top. Dthrow -> utilt should start working [if they don't DI properly? They may be able to DI and escape this, but no one I've ever faced has] at about 60%-ish, which can give you follow-ups (especially if you eat her jump).

But yeah, CCing (but be wary of dsmash) and mixing up DI on her dthrow makes this a little less ridiculous - she at least shouldn't be able to keep zero-deathing you. Also, if you bounce on a tech and she tries to jab reset you, SDI up to escape it. if you notice she's jabbing you early, mash jump or nair or both, you can probably escape the grab instead of getting jab-> grab because you weren't using a fast move to escape.

 

[SAUS]

You should be able to nair out of tilt combos at low percents, I think... at least at zero, if you miss the CC, mash nair, since hitstun [for me] seems to be low enough to just nair her out of it, at which point you L-cancel and retreat or attack.

Careful if she is at low damage. If you nair here, she can CC it and then get a punish, and giving her a punish on you is very, very bad.

Link's dthrow doesn't set up for combos properly until higher percents, so go with uthrow (Sheik doesn't have the best landing options). Unfortunately utilt -> dair won't KO on Dreamland and doesn't KO a lot on most stages outside of Yoshi's because the utilt's KBG is too high for it to link reliably at percents where dair will KO. It's still not a bad way to get some damage, but Sheik's not a spacie so you can't go for this at like 110% and KO her off the top. Dthrow -> utilt should start working [if they don't DI properly? They may be able to DI and escape this, but no one I've ever faced has] at about 60%-ish, which can give you follow-ups (especially if you eat her jump).

You can dthrow -> dsmash at about 30. Just remember to turn around first if she DI's behind you. At around 20-40, I think you can up-throw -> up-air her, and then try to go for an up-air string. At lower damage, up-tilt into up-air is much better than up-tilt into dair because you can follow up with more up-airs and bombs to keep her trapped in the air. If she's used her jump, don't be afraid to go ham on her with up-airs, because even if you trade, she might not be able to get down before you recover from being hit (depends on your damage).

Regarding the chain grab, it doesn't work starting from 0 (I think it starts at about 10 damage pre-throw), so she has to tech chase you. However, she can try to jab -> regrab, so if this is happening, you need to SDI the jab away from her. Other than that, I think up+behind DI will get you out of the chain grab the earliest (if done right, you should go straight up from the throw).

 

[Thor]

You can dthrow -> dsmash at about 30. Just remember to turn around first if she DI's behind you. At around 20-40, I think you can up-throw -> up-air her, and then try to go for an up-air string. At lower damage, up-tilt into up-air is much better than up-tilt into dair because you can follow up with more up-airs and bombs to keep her trapped in the air. If she's used her jump, don't be afraid to go ham on her with up-airs, because even if you trade, she might not be able to get down before you recover from being hit (depends on your damage).

Good to know about dthrow dsmash, I use uthrow before 50 usually, but I'll look for the dsmash - that links before hitting the ground? Utilt to uair is a lot better at low percents, I agree - I was just talking about KO percents for the dair (like, I think utilt -> dair works on Falco at like 100%, which is great on small stages like Yoshi's, but Sheik has a narrower range and lower percents for this because she doesn't fall as fast).

Sheik's dair isn't good for getting down, so uair juggles are great, I agree.

I think you're right about DIing up+away - I usually DI up so I have time to try to nair out (at higher percents), potentially jump away, or else pull a bomb so I can escape after a regrab better (then item throw after getting regrabbed), all of this assuming that Sheik doesn't just hit you with an aerial.

Careful if she is at low damage. If you nair here, she can CC it and then get a punish, and giving her a punish on you is very, very bad.

I don't usually have this issue with Sheiks I play, but I'll watch for it now - most are trying to ftilt combo me so I usually exchange a nair with an ftilt once or twice before being out of ftilt range.

Some more advice: SDIing ftilt can help quite a bit for escaping some low-percent combos (especially if the Sheik likes ftilt -> ftilt -> stuff instead of just ftilt -> stuff). Should've mentioned this above.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You have to throw projectiles at all times. Scout roll in as much as possible, because that will be the bane of your existence if Sheik can get in on you unpunished. D-smash is the best move to punish rolls, as it is your fastest combo starter.

 

[SAUS]

Good to know about dthrow dsmash, I use uthrow before 50 usually, but I'll look for the dsmash - that links before hitting the ground?

Yes. I think it is just above 30 that it works. Link's dsmash hits on frame 9, which is the same frame his up-tilt hits (though lower to the ground and reaches further horizontally). It's one of his fastest moves. Comboing into up-tilt might work at lower damage if you turn around up-tilt when they DI behind you, but I'd have to test that.

I don't usually have this issue with Sheiks I play, but I'll watch for it now - most are trying to ftilt combo me so I usually exchange a nair with an ftilt once or twice before being out of ftilt range.

One of Link's biggest problems is crouch cancelling / ASDI down (holding down is very powerful). Shiek can potentially just go for a grab after taking one of your nairs and then you get chain grabbed. I think that nair is only a powerful move once your opponent is at at least 50 damage so that they can't retaliate after getting hit.

 

[ChivalRuse]

@ SAUS . Fair can be spaced outside of grab range. You can fair in such a way that Sheik can't shield grab it and also can't CC grab it. Just hit with the tip of the fair.

 

[SAUS]

@ SAUS . Fair can be spaced outside of grab range. You can fair in such a way that Sheik can't shield grab it and also can't CC grab it. Just hit with the tip of the fair.

Ya, I don't have problems with it It's just that it took me a long time to learn how to properly space/play around crouch cancelling. Also, there are situations where you can't just out-space your opponent, but going for a fast attack like down-smash just gets you punished by crouch cancel.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Grab her by the butt. It's the best way to throw off a woman and stun her

 

[ChivalRuse]

Sheik is no woman.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

As for a main strategy I usually enjoy exploiting links fastfall speed against characters with less scary uairs and utilts. This works vs sheik as well.

Platform camp her from the top platform if I get to pick FoD, DL64, YS or BF. I just time my jumps with hers and try to land when she does, she does jump slow enough so you can react to it, if she shows her ugly face above the platform she eats a bomb. At times I just fast fall down to the main platform and starts hitting her, hopefully I get in under her and can start utilting or uairing. It's important that you are quick to climb platforms for this strategy to be effective, i.e. you need to be good to waveland onto platforms.

As for combos I think you have missed FJ dthrow bomb > FF uair which is pretty nice vs sheik and dthrow>upB which is very effective vs sheik(grab a tilt or a smash).

 

[Deleted member]

link vs sheik is impossible

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

link vs sheik is a very hard matchup in NTSC

FTFY

 

[ChivalRuse]

Not impossible, but there has to be a very large skill gap.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Or more like, you need to really know the matchup, any knowledge gap is fatal and will make it look one sided.

 

[SAUS]

I agree with Lootic. The matchup isn't that bad. You just need to learn the matchup (which isn't exactly easy to do with so little online footage of Link vs Shiek, but it's still doable).

 

[bagsntrane]

I know for a fact that lord Hdl beat mew2king's sheik in friendlies. Jason confirmed it for me when i housed him. I asked what he remembered about hdl's play style and he said he couldn't remember. He said the only thing he said he could remember was thinking to himself, "I cant believe how good this guy is with link". My understanding is that there is actually video of said matches, but I think they were not uploaded due to m2k not wanting them posted...

 

[SAUS]

I know for a fact that lord Hdl beat mew2king's sheik in friendlies. Jason confirmed it for me when i housed him. I asked what he remembered about hdl's play style and he said he couldn't remember. He said the only thing he said he could remember was thinking to himself, "I cant believe how good this guy is with link". My understanding is that there is actually video of said matches, but I think they were not uploaded due to m2k not wanting them posted...

Man, that is crazy.

I've played m2k twice in tournament and, against his Shiek, the most I took off was 2 stocks. The thing is, though, that when I lose, I feel like I got outplayed. I always have the sense that I can refine my play and perform better. That's the thing - the only time a matchup would be impossible is if there was literally nothing I could do to increase my performance, and I still couldn't beat my opponent. It did not feel that way at all.

 

[bagsntrane]

I also played him once in tournament and only got one stock, but i def could have played way better.