Secondary to help against certain matchups

[Samlage]

Specifically, shulk, luigi and rosa. Out of those 3, i'm most comfy against rosa, and on a good and focused day I'll win the set. Luigi is like a coin toss because of all the "jank" and whatnot.

Now shulk on the other hand is something i cant deal with. I'm fairly certain its just a mu-knowledge issue. But the guy in our town who plays him is really good aswell. You barely notice the moments where he is punishable since his techskill and reactions are so spot on.we have a similar falcon player in our scene, but there i can manage by anticipating stuff and mindgame my way through.

I am bad at tech skill and my reactions have dropped since i'm passed my vg-prime. I win locals solely because of fundamentals and conditioning/reads. My practice time is limited to once a week + 1 monthly local.

What do you suggest? Toon link, sheik and diddy are the ones who come to my mind but idk.

 

[metal921]

Your scared of Luigi? We should talk about Cloud! I find Rosalina and Luigi hard but do-able but not Cloud.

 

[Samlage]

At close range, luigi is mario with overall more damage, more range and strange personal properties that lets him combo mario, but mario can not combo him. 70% of my kills come from gimps.

Also vs cloud, it helps that he is just as common as mario or falcon, so I know what to expect at all times. fludd and cape and nair makes it easy once i get him offstage. onstage i just power shield A LOT since his grab has nothing to fear about it.

 

[metal921]

Luigi is kinda of a floaty so I understand where your coming from. I usually try to do what you mentioned, get him off stage don't go deep and try to gimp his recovery. When he does the side B I'll just fair for game but with Cloud What I have problem with is Cloud's disjointed hit boxes on his aerials. I can power shield him but with those auto cancelled Aerials they will just keep on pressuring shield. It's tough for Mario I think that matchup is 50-45 Clouds favor.

PS Same goes for Shulk. Cloud and Shulk are similar so I get why Mario has trouble with those two. Their range is crazy good.

 

[Samlage]

Thats why i've decided to grab myself a secondary. the guys mario struggle with always seem to be 1 frame too far away to punish. all three of diddy, sheik and TL have superior speed and/or range to mario so the moments i find myself unable to get inside in time should now be fixed.

Sure, toonlink trades movespeed and range for worse framedata, but he has the ability to force approaches atleast. neither marios or diddys neutral B is good enough for that. sheiks got needles, but I'm scared that with the time available to practice + my inconsistent tech skill make her a less viable option to me.

So, any input regarding what I should pick up to have an easier time exploiting shulks weaknesses? I know mario can do it, but the guy is really good and knows the matchup, and I wont get to practice vs a similar leveled shulk to stand on even ground. or any shulk at all for that matter.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

At the risk of sounding unoriginal, pick this guy -> . No reason not to. You won't necessarily have to worry about tech skill, just fundamentals. But is a good option too. Lot of burst options, good punish game with bananas, and good ground mobility.

 

[Samlage]

At the risk of sounding unoriginal, pick this guy -> . No reason not to. You won't necessarily have to worry about tech skill, just fundamentals. But is a good option too. Lot of burst options, good punish game with bananas, and good ground mobility.

Point taken. Used cloud for a while, now only in doubles. ****ty throw game and recovery when no LB. tbh just boring character design imo.

But if diddy will help in the aforementioned MU's then I'll pick him up starting this saturday!

 

[Axel311]

Just play Cloud. It's super lame but he's the perfect pocket character. Very easy to pick up and play and he's top tier. Also synergizes really well with Mario as a secondary to counter the only thing Mario sort of struggles with...range and getting zoned out. And he probably solidly beats all the characters you mentioned (don't know about Rosa though). He's way easier to learn than Diddy. Also Diddy probably does just as bad or worse as Mario against Rosa and Luigi. A lot of Diddy mains think he loses both of those matchups.

 

[Samlage]

How well do you think marth would do to cover mario? he feels like a more fluid cloud who trades vertical aerials for more horizontal prowess. And his recovery is harder to exploit.

The luigi pain is real, especially now that the other top players in my local scene have him either as a main or secondary.

His grab has this weird teleport-range-thing going on, and his up b and tornado have me scared trying to gimp him if they decide to go low. it hurts me a lot that i cant really pressure luigi in close quarters as mario usually does since i need to respect that damn grab so much.

 

[Crystanium]

Go with Diddy Kong. You might want to play as a character who feels similar, but different.

 

[Samlage]

Yeah youve got a point. a big issue i also have is that ive become less consistent recently, and feel like ive fallen back into my old playing patterns. I used to be on a tier of my own 4-5 weeks ago, only losing to the best guy in town. now everybody is catching up and im losing to guys who couldnt take a stock from me.

Im messing up oos usmashes, perfect shielding and stuff like that (i used to have no problem with it), my confidence has taken a blow and that results in me failing to apply pressure and sit in shield way too much.

I think i should just pick up diddy and stop sandbagging with **** like ganon, marth ike etc..

 

[Crystanium]

Yeah youve got a point. a big issue i also have is that ive become less consistent recently, and feel like ive fallen back into my old playing patterns. I used to be on a tier of my own 4-5 weeks ago, only losing to the best guy in town. now everybody is catching up and im losing to guys who couldnt take a stock from me.

Im messing up oos usmashes, perfect shielding and stuff like that (i used to have no problem with it), my confidence has taken a blow and that results in me failing to apply pressure and sit in shield way too much.

I think i should just pick up diddy and stop sandbagging with **** like ganon, marth ike etc..

If you've fallen into your old ways, the only thing you can do to prevent that is to not play that way. Sometimes, people will hit a plateau. I think that if you go back to the basics, you can get out of that and kind of start fresh. Also think about what's useful and what isn't. Sometimes you have to remind yourself during mid-game to not do certain things you've grown accustom to doing. By that, I am referring to poor habits. To give you an idea, I taught myself not to roll with Samus. If I rolled, I would tell myself aloud, "Don't roll." Of course, if I do roll, I should be doing it consciously, not simply out of habit.

People will catch up. My brother has more experience in Sm4sh. Before he bought the game for the Wii U, he played on his 3DS. He was able to transfer his skills from that game to the Wii U. Me, being new to the game, had to catch up. I've only played for four months, and I haven't played since because I don't have a Wii U or Sm4sh. I know everyone else is ahead of me by a long shot, but I'm confident I'll catch up when I can play again. The point I'm making is that my brother two-stocked me left and right. I didn't take it personally, but I did develop ways to win, which then allowed me to not only win against him, but against others as well.

My brother felt that he was playing poorly because he was playing against me. I said, "Or maybe I've just gotten better." After all, I was playing For Glory whenever I could. Those people who are catching up are catching up because they've developed better strategies. Don't take this personally, but see it as a way to improve as well. As much as I'd like to not tell people why they're losing against me, I know that if I don't say anything, then I won't have a way to improve. Try to think about what you're doing when you play. You're not obliged to approach. You're not obliged to attack on whim. You're not obliged to land onto the stage when recovering. You're not obliged to even immediately get onto the stage from the ledge.

Losing isn't the end. It allows you to improve. It's not failure. It's a step to learning why you lost or why you struggled, even if you won. Don't take your losses personally. If you think you fell back into your old ways, and if you think that's what's really causing you to lose, then try to recall what strategies you used in order to win.

 

[Omastar]

1. Diddy if you have a great item game, want a great neutral, and like a lot of burst damage.

2. Cloud if you want to pick up someone with a huge disjoint, can kill very early, and you wont have to invest too much time into him to be very good.

3. Sheik because she doesn't lose any matchups, has a transcendent projectile and great frame data. (Only problem is hard to kill with)