Secondaries/Friendly Characters

[Thermal]

I'm a beginner Lucas that has been getting decent over the past few months (started in January). Sometimes I feel like Lucas can be fairly tech heavy with DJC timings, magnet/shield pressure, and just overall spacing. I can do fairly well when I practice before hand but for just pick up games I like to play around with Wario. Wario is fairly tech-lenient and covers techchase options very well. He just feels overall satisfying. Although playing against skilled players with him gets my ass kicked, playing against people slightly better/same level/below me require alot less stress due to tech flubs.

So, who do you secondary? Have any tips on warming up for Lucas, eliminating the need for the Wahman? Or maybe even Wahman tips.

 

[TheCandyman]

Lucas master race! Jk. Because I don't PM I don't have too big a time to play as other characters seriously so when I do I get as much DJC tech and what not practice midmatch. In PM I have a capability to play many characters and do well with like Ivysaur, Wolf, Marth (melee transfer), Falco (Also melee transfer) but I usually play who I have fun with and Lucas is that so yeah.

Edit:
For some actual advice Lucas probably doesn't need a secondary that much because of all of things Deep voice guy said. His phenomenal punish game makes bad-ish matchups fine but for secondaries Marth works well because of range, Sheik too would work because of range and sex kick

 

[pipp]

Personally, I like Ike and Marth a lot because of their range, which Lucas doesn't really have that much of. I think they cover the MUs pretty well, but honestly if you like playing Lucas, you should really think about just practicing him alone. It takes a really long time to get really good with a character, so trying to practice a secondary might throw you off. You could always make Lucas your secondary and learn Wario or someone you like better if you like playing them more. Lucas is a lot of fun, and that's why I play him, so you should try and find out who you really like playing as the most and really focus on practicing with them, because later on if you're bored of a character, you might want to change mains and that'll throw off your progress. A secondary usually comes in when you're comfortable with the character you play, but need another character just to cover tricky MUs, but it is always good to know a variety of characters just for fun and knowing how they all work. If you are going to choose a secondary, I think somebody with good range would be a good option since Lucas can sometimes stuggle with his relatively short range. Ike and Marth don't recquire too much tech skill and you can pick of relatively easily, though mastering an individual character always takes time. Whatever you choose to do, good luck, and have fun!

 

[D e l t a]

Tbh, Lucas could be the best in PM as he can combo everybody and has amazing ledge guards on the entire cast if done correctly. His neutral is reminiscent of Falco and has some of the best OoS options, might I say even better than Spacies aside from shine (PK burst is 2 frames slower).

The only big weaknesses are lack of range (3.5 Fair sucks in comparison to 3.02's version, which was still relatively small), slow run speed (Bowser has the same run speed) and lack of priority / long lasting hitbox aka sex-kick: most characters like Fox/Falco/Mario/Luigi have a long lasting Nair and easily goes thru most projectiles, whereas Lucas' Fair is a short burst attack

==

As for secondaries, somebody that coveres these weaknesses would be best.

Sheik can deal with disjoint due to her Nair & Ftilt as well as needles and crouching. Fire Emblem, primarily Marth due to similar speed & grabs as well as better hitboxes, could be good as a secondary. He deals with Spacies better (less frames to punish on grab, disjoint can combat easier).

If youre getting out-camped, use a char like Mario or Link to go head-to-head with projectiles or Fox/Falco.

 

[GanondorkMSK!]

Tbh, Lucas could be the best in PM as he can combo everybody and has amazing ledge guards on the entire cast if done correctly. His neutral is reminiscent of Falco and has some of the best OoS options, might I say even better than Spacies aside from shine (PK burst is 2 frames slower).

The only big weaknesses are lack of range (3.5 Fair sucks in comparison to 3.02's version, which was still relatively small), slow run speed (Bowser has the same run speed) and lack of priority / long lasting hitbox aka sex-kick: most characters like Fox/Falco/Mario/Luigi have a long lasting Nair and easily goes thru most projectiles, whereas Lucas' Fair is a short burst attack

==

As for secondaries, somebody that coveres these weaknesses would be best.

Sheik can deal with disjoint due to her Nair & Ftilt as well as needles and crouching. Fire Emblem, primarily Marth due to similar speed & grabs as well as better hitboxes, could be good as a secondary. He deals with Spacies better (less frames to punish on grab, disjoint can combat easier).

If youre getting out-camped, use a char like Mario or Link to go head-to-head with projectiles or Fox/Falco.

Something else that isn't too great is his recovery.
Lucas ends up being pretty much done if he's knocked too far offstage, against a good player.

You should also keep in mind having a secondary that has a better recovery.

EDIT: By too far, I mean a point where he can recover, but with little leeway.

 

[D e l t a]

I'm sorry, but Lucas has one of, if not the best recoveries in the game. 3.5 made it balanced now, compared to his broken 3.02 version with semi-infinite magnet stall & the dumbest tether length + tether cancelling

His UpB got boosted distance and can be delayed & sweetspotted

Magnet stalling can be JC'd and also puts out a hitbox. So you can magnet -> rising aerial and stop certain ledge guards. His aerials have low end lag and are pretty good overall, making fighting your way back on stage easier than most characters. If that doesn't work, you can air dodge through attacks then rope snake to the ledge.

His double jump has a great vertical range, only drawback being the slight dip down on startup. Without a double jump, I'll agree that Lucas can't make it back from a large portion of places off-stage.

Fall speed is fairly low & he doesn't crash straight down, unlike Fox or Roy.

 

[D e l t a]

I don't see how his recovery is that bad in the slightest. Most characters don't make it back from half the distances that Lucas can. Furthermore, if recovering is your main issue, you clearly need to work at your on-stage game a lot more. For instance, Falco has a terrible recovery distance, but he can do some nasty things when he's on the stage.

A secondary should cover your weaknesses. If you're getting gimped, that's primarily on the player's fault, as most gimps are gimmicky or hard reads on how a person recovers. The game is played 90% of the time fighting, not recovering.

Traits that may be significant in a matchup: speed in air / ground, attack range, attack speed, ability to close stocks / get fast or early kills, OoS / defensive options, if they a projectile or a way to counteract that projectile.

 

[GanondorkMSK!]

What I said is more of an assessment on Lucas' abilities and the best I've seen them be used, considering the ways I use them, not solely on my ability to play Lucas. It would be pretty stupid if I were to say that because what if I didn't know what a tether was and I was basing my facts off of that?

Aside from that, I do take back what I said about Lucas' recovery.

 

[D e l t a]

Essentially, the main flaws in Lucas' toolset is range and priority. Both of these weaknesses are mainly covered by Marth, and to a lesser degree, Fox / Falco / Link.

 

[Downdraft]

I know this thread is about good secondaries for Lucas, but what do y'all think about Lucas and Zelda as a pair?

 

[D e l t a]

I know this thread is about good secondaries for Lucas, but what do y'all think about Lucas and Zelda as a pair?

This sounds interesting. Sheik / Zelda usually cover each other fairly well. As for Lucas / Zelda, I could see the anti-projectile spam and extra wall of defense coming to aid here. As I mentioned, you want someone with range and priority. Zelda's range is good, but her priority is lacking. Din's fire could be troublesome and advantageous for you...

Both Lucas & Zelda have somewhat bad landing options. Only difference being that Zelda has teleport / tele-cancels whereas Lucas can fastfall and magnet stall for mixups. They're also inherently slow at moving in terms of running & air drift. Only difference being that Lucas has fast bursts of speed compared to Zelda holding down a zone.

 

[Thermal]

I know this thread is about good secondaries for Lucas, but what do y'all think about Lucas and Zelda as a pair?

Oh man, as I hate the Zelda matchup to high hell. She would be a pretty good counterpick against Lucas, Wario, and other characters around the same weight/fall speed since FThrow --> Sweetspot Fair is free. Against aggressive play she can get stuffed up fairly easily. She has pretty good OOS options but it is good to watch out if they are trying to bait out your Neutral B or Nair.

 

[D e l t a]

She would be a pretty good counterpick against Lucas, Wario, and other characters around the same weight/fall speed since

FThrow --> Sweetspot Fair is free. Against aggressive play she can get stuffed up fairly easily.

She has pretty good OOS options but it is good to watch out if they are trying to bait out your Neutral B or Nair.

Against Lucas, I'll agree with this to an extent. Her Naryu's love & din's fire can cut off many of Lucas' options, but Lucas can also rush her down quickly or be smart about PKF usage. Upsmash can combo into itself like 2-4 times from 0-30% She has answers to approaches; however, these can all be baited and punished due to end lag.

Wario wins imo. He can air camp & zone out Zelda like a better Jiggs.

Uthrow can combo into uptilt / upsmash / Uair / Fair / Bair / Bair. Fthrow can be DI'd and nothing will follow up.

Her OoS options are kind of terrible. Zelda has a somewhat slow grab / average grab range, startup is relatively slow, range / priority isn't anything amazing.

Good Zelda players should be expected to know how to properly deal with aggression. That's literally the entire premise of Zelda.