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Secondaries for Link Mains

Corona

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It may be viewed as the "easy way out," but I really think having a strong back-up character is the only way to have success nowadays as a Link main. I will probably always continue to elect to use my Link in about 80-90% of my matches, but there are certain circumstances (fighting a fox on FD, a Marth on Yoshi's Story, Luigi for the most part, fighting a Sheik just about anywhere) where I am becoming increasingly more likely to use Falco. My original backup plan was Peach, but Germ had a mean Falco as a backup which prompted me to try it out. Who is your secondary and why?
 

Corona

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I guess it really depends on what you are going for. Will there be a day when someone out there has a Link that can be viable against, say, M2K's Sheik? On FD? I guess it's possible, but M2K even admits himself that he isn't keen on the Link MU, yet he decimates most any Link match I've seen. That is obviously a mountain of an example there, but there is a reason why Links don't win out in many tournys, nevermind nationals. Link can be an incredible asset for a winner, though, and has the tools to win many matchups with top characters given a couple circumstances. A winner needs a firm grip on his (or her) main, but ignoring the ability to choose the best option in each circumstance is a glaring handicap.

Take this with a grain of salt, though, I am a player that misses L-Cancels.
 
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A link winning against M2Ks Sheik (or any other top Sheik) on FD in NTSC, nope, will never happen. But I feel winning a set all in all with the current stage pick system against M2Ks Sheik is possible for a Link.
 

Corona

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I totally agree. It is possible. Your chances just increase of winning if you pick based on the circumstance instead of stubbornly sticking with one character. There are situations, like the aforementioned Sheik on FD, where switching to a well trained secondary is the only smart move. The argument against this (I see it coming) is "well, why don't you just drop link all together and stay with falco or some other sellout high tier?"

Truth be told, it really does take a certain level of denial to be a Link main nowadays. I think we all know this deep down, but screw it, I want to push the ceiling of his abilities anyway... or learn to do so.
 

Zodiac

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I second sheik and fox, honestly, using Links worst enemies as a counter is pretty good.
 

Sane.

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I've always liked the idea of IC's as a second, since between Link and them they really don't have any weaknesses outside of Samus.

 

Corona

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I've always liked the idea of IC's as a second, since between Link and them they really don't have any weaknesses outside of Samus.

On paper, that is a great secondary. That chart is whacked, though. Link with a supposed 80/20 matchup over Peach is beyond laughable nowadays.
 

Sane.

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On paper, that is a great secondary. That chart is whacked, though. Link with a supposed 80/20 matchup over Peach is beyond laughable nowadays.

That's a good point, but I still like them especially since my Link struggles mostly with Sheik and good Falcon players (the sheer speed / combo'ing overwhelms me), but my IC game makes it a bit easier.
 

Toebex

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I love playing link but I tend to go with the next best swordsman, Mr. Marth, against the faster characters that are heavier/fall faster. So I basically play Marth against Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers and sometimes sheik. I find matchups when I play link with someone like Doc or Roy (all my mates play Roy) sooooo easy. Ive only played seriously (competitivley) for about 4 months or less and I find it so great to play Link like that.
 

Corona

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UPDATE: A year later, and I still hold this OP as truth. I have since moved away from Falco and moved more towards a Link/Sheik duo. Link is still my main as he is still used 80% of the time or so, but I have gained more competence against Falcon and Marth in the six months using Sheik than I have with 2 years of Link maining. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I do think it is worth trying. But, as I said before, this is STILL coming from a player who misses L Cancels like nobody's business.

-Corona
 

SAUS

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Link all the way. I've only switched character maybe 4 times in tournament matches and it's usually never been particularly effective. I decided to only play Link in all my matches.
 

Dott

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Main: Link
Secondary: Roy

And that's i have no chance to win in melee...
 

SAUS

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Main: Link
Secondary: Roy

And that's i have no chance to win in melee...
Johns.

Don't main a low tier if it's just an excuse to lose. I main Link and I just placed 2nd at a local (losing only to Kage the Warrior). Of course it's only a local and there are plenty of people who can beat me, but when I lose to people, it's because they out-play me, not because Link is weak. If I thought that Link was not viable, I would have switched away from him or quit playing.
 

Dott

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Johns.

Don't main a low tier if it's just an excuse to lose. I main Link and I just placed 2nd at a local (losing only to Kage the Warrior). Of course it's only a local and there are plenty of people who can beat me, but when I lose to people, it's because they out-play me, not because Link is weak. If I thought that Link was not viable, I would have switched away from him or quit playing.
Haha it was just a joke, i know they are low tiers, but they are the only characters i see that unique potential if you know what i talking.

I know they are low tiers, but it doesn't matter if you are better and can predict your opponnent moves, it's all about the mindgames. Reads it's all you need.
 
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Corona

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Pikachu is an interesting option as a Link secondary as I am starting to learn. Especially in the Sheik matchup. I still second with Sheik, but I've started thinking about lesser used characters since at this point everyone has tons of experiences against the tops esp. Falcon, Falco, Fox, Marth, and Sheik.
 
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I know they are low tiers, but it doesn't matter if you are better and can predict your opponnent moves, it's all about the mindgames. Reads it's all you need.
I think its more about knowing what options the opponent have and what the outcome will be of their choices, then covering as many as possible. I never make a hard read with Link(to scary, every strong move lags) I merely poke at their defenses until it breaks. You can do that when you have solid projectiles and/or range.
 
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SAUS

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I think its more about knowing what options the opponent have and what the outcome will be of their choices, then covering as many as possible. I never make a hard read with Link(to scary, every strong move lags) I merely poke at their defenses until it breaks. You can do that when you have solid projectiles and/or range.
It's true. I don't think you need to make hard reads to win with low tier characters, you just need to understand each character's options better.
 

DavemanCozy

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I'm a bit of an opposite to this topic: my main is Peach, and my secondary is Link.

I picked up Link to counter Jigglypuff and Samus, but I actually really enjoy using him and have surprised myself with how well I can do with him. A month ago I managed to beat a Marth with Link after I lost with Peach, and just a few weeks ago I managed to beat a Jigglypuff player who counterpicked Fox on me after I beat him with Link. He's turning out to be a very solid secondary (and my only solid secondary).
 

bagsntrane

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yes it makes sense that link is the perfect non top tier character counter for peachs weak/hard matchups....
 

Jedisupersonic

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In Melee my alts for Link tend to be Marth and Peach.. but I need more legit tournament experience before I can say for sure if this trio is my trio in Melee.
 

Thor

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A link winning against M2Ks Sheik (or any other top Sheik) on FD in NTSC, nope, will never happen. But I feel winning a set all in all with the current stage pick system against M2Ks Sheik is possible for a Link.
What makes the MU impossible on FD and where should I CP Sheik then? I wanted to CP her to a big stage at a previous tournament but my opponent banned DL and just won game 2 on PS... we played game 1 on BF and I knew I needed a lot of space to work with based on games 1 and 2 so I went FD and won a very tight game 3... this guy was on the PR btw (though he occupies the lowest spot, and it's a local PR, nothing terribly impressive).

For the record, I was worried about needles and the CG, but I remembered this trick IE suggested once in commentating footage of him vs M2K - if you see them charge needles from a ways away, charge bow, since bow will usually eat through all the needles [and can still hit]. Then I made sure to constantly have rang or bomb out, unless I was comboing, and the moment I dropped it, instead of any over-extension (except on stock 3 where I went for broke and got the dair), I would immediately grab a bomb and put rang out somewhere favorable.

I'm not saying all this WORKS or is good enough to avoid the problem, mind you, but is the CG bad enough to make this stage a 100-0 stage in the MU? And what are my CPs in this MU? [Feel free to just tag me in the Q&A thread - I'll edit this post then to be something else.]
 

Corona

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What makes the MU impossible on FD and where should I CP Sheik then? I wanted to CP her to a big stage at a previous tournament but my opponent banned DL and just won game 2 on PS... we played game 1 on BF and I knew I needed a lot of space to work with based on games 1 and 2 so I went FD and won a very tight game 3... this guy was on the PR btw (though he occupies the lowest spot, and it's a local PR, nothing terribly impressive).

For the record, I was worried about needles and the CG, but I remembered this trick IE suggested once in commentating footage of him vs M2K - if you see them charge needles from a ways away, charge bow, since bow will usually eat through all the needles [and can still hit]. Then I made sure to constantly have rang or bomb out, unless I was comboing, and the moment I dropped it, instead of any over-extension (except on stock 3 where I went for broke and got the dair), I would immediately grab a bomb and put rang out somewhere favorable.

I'm not saying all this WORKS or is good enough to avoid the problem, mind you, but is the CG bad enough to make this stage a 100-0 stage in the MU? And what are my CPs in this MU? [Feel free to just tag me in the Q&A thread - I'll edit this post then to be something else.]
NEW UPDATE: After dabbling with this for almost two years, I think I have the "ideal" secondary for Link. Taking the spacies off the board, as I think most people are here, my list for secondaries are as follows.

4. Marth

3. Sheik

2. Ice Climbers

1. Jigglypuff!!

Even with Fox/Falco on the board, Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers handle Link's main enemies (Sheik, Fox, Falcon, Falco IMO in that order) just as well, if not, better with less room for tech errors. I have already jumped onto Puff as a secondary.

As for your thoughts, Thor, this list also coincidentally would be my recommendations for that specific matchup, again, taking the space animals out of the equation.
 
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Bravo_10

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My strongest secondary is Zelda, which is convenient because she is even worse than Link at my two weakest matchups, Falcon and Sheik. Lol.

It's not like I really chose that consciously, I just tried playing her because of The Lake, and I found that she came very naturally to me.
 

RetroGamersGuru

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I'm going to have to disagree on the Icies to a degree. Icies is actually has much room for tech error in comparison to Sheik and Marth with the constant desyncs and handoffs. Not to mention they can get separated easily if you are not careful. In actuality, Marth is pretty easy to learn, and you can become a "good" player quickly with him. He also handles all of those MUs very well as compared to Jigglypuff (Marth's even MU against Fox). He also is better against Sheik than Icies IMO. So really, My list of those four are 1. Marth 2. Jigglypuff 3. Sheik 4. Ice Climbers
Also, if you really are a Link main, finding a so called secondary for all of those MUs really is saying that he isn't viable, which IMO is not the case. When you use a different character for all of those MUs, you might as well call that character your main instead.

----

Lol, Zelda the tertiary is what I would call it. She is weird to play, but it's always fun to see the look on the player's face when you use her and win.
 

Bravo_10

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You think Link's better against Shiek than IC's? Um... do you live in the PAL region? In NTSC that matchup is almost impossible. She has one of the most brutal chain grabs in the game, on top of the fact that she generally outclasses him with her movement and edgeguard game. If anything, she's the reason Link isn't considered a tournament viable character. And maybe Captain Falcon.

My favorite thing about Zelda is the fact that she puts in work against IC's, who are probably her best top-tier matchup. But then again, Link handles them well if not better, so lol. :laugh:
 

RetroGamersGuru

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Did I ever say that? No, you kinda put words in my mouth dude. I'm just saying that Ice Climbers can easily mess up in their tech skill due to how much they have to do. They still are better than Link against Sheik, but the other high tiers have an easier time of not messing up against Sheik. Besides, Link mains have to learn the Sheik MU in case of finding themselves in it. And no, I live in NTSC.

----

Lol.
 

Bravo_10

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Did I ever say that? No, you kinda put words in my mouth dude. I'm just saying that Ice Climbers can easily mess up in their tech skill due to how much they have to do. They still are better than Link against Sheik, but the other high tiers have an easier time of not messing up against Sheik. Besides, Link mains have to learn the Sheik MU in case of finding themselves in it. And no, I live in NTSC.

----

Lol.

OMG I'm so sorry you meant to say that Marth does better against Sheik than the IC's. My mistake! Thought you were talking about Link. Misread that sentence completely. Didn't mean to chastise you or anything.
 

Corona

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The Fox Matchup is the only matchup of the major public enemies (Sheik, Falcon, and Fox) which Marth succeeds in greater than Jiggly or Icies. Against Sheik, I am pretty sure it is a general consensus that Marth has a slight Disadvantage against Sheik whereas the Icies have a neutral or slight Advantage.
 

RetroGamersGuru

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The Fox Matchup is the only matchup of the major public enemies (Sheik, Falcon, and Fox) which Marth succeeds in greater than Jiggly or Icies. Against Sheik, I am pretty sure it is a general consensus that Marth has a slight Disadvantage against Sheik whereas the Icies have a neutral or slight Advantage.
I was basing my list on technical demand as well as the total MUs. Yes, Icies has an even MU with Sheik, but Icies requires more work than The other chars do. Besides, the Sheik MU for Marth is pretty close to even right now. The advantage is pretty much not as polarizing as it used to be.

Also a "natural" low tier Secondary > a forced high tier Secondary.
I do agree with this though.
 

Dott

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It's a dark day DX

I wonder if there are any more Links in Panama O.o Probly not...
People don't play Link due to his very low probability to win, as far as i know there aren't. There is only a very good Young Link who plays occasionally; but most of the people play the tier list's top 7, only play Link in friendlies.

It's just..... Fox it's tooo goooood.....
 
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Darklink401

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People don't play Link due to his very low probability to win, as far as i know there aren't. There is only a very good Young Link who plays occasionally; but most of the people play the tier list's top 7, only play Link in friendlies.

It's just..... Fox it's tooo goooood.....
Eh, Fox is pretty good XP But I'd put Marth and Falco over him. And Link has a good time against both of them, from what I've seen. o3o

Fox is pretty annoying tho.

I do feel Link has the tools to win, I just am not good to prove it.....yet! XD
 

RetroGamersGuru

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Well, sadly i am now a Fox main and joined the 200xx path... i have failed to you people :(
Well that makes sense, by 200XX you see no more mains other than Fox. Now with 20XX, the other characters are not done yet with competition. But by the time that 200XX comes, there will be an upgrade to Melee so Fox would be alone by himself anyways.

Eh, Fox is pretty good XP But I'd put Marth and Falco over him. And Link has a good time against both of them, from what I've seen. o3o

Fox is pretty annoying tho.

I do feel Link has the tools to win, I just am not good to prove it.....yet! XD
Agreed. IMO though, since Marth has an even MU to Fox and our skills as Link mains transfer better to him, he would be an ideal backup character for Link with that MU while Link handles the rest. Captain Falcon can handle himself of course, and the Falcon's are improving in the Sheik MU as well, so really both are good backups if you want to not just be like most people and pick Mr. No Bad MUs/Mr. Too Much Good Stuff on Shine.
 

Darklink401

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Well that makes sense, by 200XX you see no more mains other than Fox. Now with 20XX, the other characters are not done yet with competition. But by the time that 200XX comes, there will be an upgrade to Melee so Fox would be alone by himself anyways.



Agreed. IMO though, since Marth has an even MU to Fox and our skills as Link mains transfer better to him, he would be an ideal backup character for Link with that MU while Link handles the rest. Captain Falcon can handle himself of course, and the Falcon's are improving in the Sheik MU as well, so really both are good backups if you want to not just be like most people and pick Mr. No Bad MUs/Mr. Too Much Good Stuff on Shine.
I thought the Marth Mu vs Fox was was in marths favor? Dr PeePee sure made it seem so. But then again, that may just be cuz Dr peePee is insanely good.

ive been thinking of going either Sheik or marth for my secondary. I like Marth a lot, and main him in Brawl and Smash 4 (never in Melee for some reason. Roy was more my style, I guess)

But I have been liking Sheik a lot more too.

Who does better vs Falcon?
 
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